@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright ^^

@PauloCereda Broadly right

@JosephWright :)

@JosephWright we could have a similar diagram in the siunitx manual. :)

@PauloCereda over simplified though eg you obviously measure temperature in fahrenheit in the summer and celsius in the winter

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@DavidCarlisle and what do you use in fall?

@UlrikeFischer they are probably too busy having tea that they don't notice the other seasons. :)

@UlrikeFischer Move somewhere with a nice and cosy -40 \degree and be done with this problem

@UlrikeFischer we can't travel to America

@DavidCarlisle you use autumn?

@UlrikeFischer I speak English, yes. (Don't listen to @barbarabeeton)

@UlrikeFischer ooh teh autumn leaves

\begin{tikzpicture}[overlay]\path(0pt,0pt);\end{tikzpicture}
\begin{picture}(-5,0)(2.5,0)
...
\end{picture}

^^^ user seems to be a bit undecided what's the best way to draw stuff :)

@samcarter clearly started off in error, then saw the true path.

@DavidCarlisle :D

@samcarter :)

@JosephWright The should add another environment with l3draw to get the full collection :)

@samcarter a quick Q: is it possible to use multipliers in the above= key? I wanted to say, above=of 2*q1...

@PauloCereda I don't think so, but you could specify lengths

@samcarter I wanted to avoid this. :) But thanks. :)

@PauloCereda Clearly stolen from How to Measure like a Canadian. :)

@AlanMunn ooh

@PauloCereda ^^^ maybe this can help?

@samcarter ooh

@samcarter thank you!

@samcarter hmm --- I do not think, above =of is different form above (the first one is the positioning library, the second one is core pgf.

Hmmm... @DavidCarlisle is better at removing commas without affecting kerning...

@samcarter no, you're right and I am wrong --- it's the same. Sorry!

With Cleveref, how can I reference a definition in a cited work?

I was tempted to write "we refer to Def.~3.4 in~\cite{...}", but then realized that I want "Def." to be the same as when using "\Cref{a-def-in-my-work}".

@ComFreek I don't think it really makes much sense to do this. The you need to have a \label for the element referred to for cleveref to reference it.

@ComFreek (ignore the 'the')

@samcarter cruel blow to reply to a question with a documentation reference.

@DavidCarlisle yeah, I clearly have still a lot of learning from the experienced Jedi tex masters to do

@samcarter although it's only @PauloCereda so it doesn't really matter if it was cruel

@DavidCarlisle quack

@PauloCereda lunch

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle you're mean :)

@DavidCarlisle oh no :)

@barbarabeeton @samcarter @UlrikeFischer ooh twitter.com/shouldhaveaduck/status/1440303711113207830

@PauloCereda <3

LaTeX2e <2021-11-15> pre-release-2 (develop 2021-9-21 branch)\

@JosephWright boo

@PauloCereda /quack

@JosephWright I have that too, but I did a tlmgr update at texlive.net and hasn't arrived there yet:-)

@JosephWright we should probably make those dates use two digits

@DavidCarlisle Ah, yes, probably

@JosephWright ooh a duck

@DavidCarlisle it will conflict with ye ole LaTeX 1921

@samcarter Sith have all the fun :þ

@Plergux But there can only be two

"Always two, there are. No more. No less. A Master and an apprentice."

@PauloCereda Since we're doing Star Wars, do you know Yoda's last name?

@PauloCereda Since when do Sith care about rules XD

@AlanMunn wait what

@Plergux touchè :)

@PauloCereda It's Leyheeha

@AlanMunn WHAAAT

@AlanMunn damn it! Beat me to it XD

@Plergux o.O

@AlanMunn I'm not sure @PauloCereda gets the joke :p

@Plergux ... I... /quacks nervously

@PauloCereda Try singing it :þ

@Plergux ooh

Explaining a joke is pretty much like dissecting a frog. You learn a lot from it, but something dies in the process. :)

@Plergux ^^ :)

@PauloCereda LOL, but it's better than watching it squirm and suffer for nothing ;p

@AlanMunn YEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

@AlanMunn This guy is a true German hero

@Plergux "So the poor ostrich died for nothing" -- Private Baldrick :)

I like the fact that Frank Oz was the lead puppeteer for Yoda (as well as his voice)

@PauloCereda LOL! yup. :p (well, he died for a joke :p)

@Plergux what a true American hero. :)

@PauloCereda I just keep thinking what the hell he stuck down his pants before he came out on stage :D

@Plergux maybe a lobster :)

@PauloCereda Quite possibly! :þ

@Plergux ooh

There are some others who can yodel too, even if you don't expect it.

@AlanMunn oooh... I wish she'd stick to the yodeling. her singing voice is too "cutesy" for my taste. :þ

more distractions for @PauloCereda open.spotify.com/track/…

@Plergux ooh

ooh Deutsche Grammophon

@PauloCereda open.spotify.com/track/…

@Plergux Yes, it is a bit.

@Plergux ooh

@Plergux But she's a great songwriter and she uses the a mixture of voice qualities to great effect. But I can see that some might find it annoying.

@AlanMunn I haven't listened to her stuff that much. Simply put if you start down at the bass end of the vocal spectrum and continue upwards the higher you get the less interested I am in listening to it :þ

My speed dial links are increasing. :)

@PhelypeOleinik Blame-hooks?

@PabloGonzálezL in other news, you got a secret duck mail

@PauloCereda Ohh...check now :D

@PabloGonzálezL ooh

@PauloCereda Thanks for the email, I'll get back to you in the afternoon...and yes it would be great (I'm only on my cell phone right now).

@PabloGonzálezL yay

@PabloGonzálezL thank you!

@PauloCereda A tí

spanish :)

@PabloGonzálezL Hola, soy un pato

:)

@PauloCereda Me gustan los patos asados

@PabloGonzálezL oh no

@PabloGonzálezL you are mean

Phelype Oleinik submitted an update to the lipsum package.

@PhelypeOleinik ^^ ooh

@DavidCarlisle fake latin is saved :)

@PauloCereda Just kidding, I've never eaten duck in my life :D

@PabloGonzálezL :)

@Vanny hi, welcome to the chat!

@StefanKottwitz @JosephWright @MartinScharrer hi buddies! Just wanted to introduce myself, I am the new CM! and I was wondering if there is any chat for the mods, would like to speak to you regarding the site. =))))

@PauloCereda Hi Paulo!!! How you doing today? Hope you are having a good one

ooh the powers that be

@Vanny 'ello! :) It's been a good day, thanks. Hope yours is good too.

@Plergux I might consider getting myself a Spotify account after all. :)

@PabloGonzálezL Every day is like this. <3

jejej

@PabloGonzálezL How's F35 so far?

@PauloCereda Fast, stable and ...great

@PabloGonzálezL ooh :)

@Vanny so... you are a community manager?

@PauloCereda The truth is that it is very fast (and the previous version was already quite fast).

@PabloGonzálezL :)

@PauloCereda I'm off to class, students are arriving...the real ones, not the internet ones :D

@PabloGonzálezL ooh real people :)

@DavidCarlisle -- I see a CTAN update to .*-dev has been posted, with updates reported in ltnews34. That's currently very incomplete, so almost not worth reading (although infested with typos). But two questions: (1) will it be complete by October 15, to be included in the next TUGboat issue? And (2) does it include an update that fixes the mispositioning of captions with amsart? I looked quickly for that but didn't find it. Has that change been made yet?

@PauloCereda It's pretty good. It's no Napster but there is a lot of good stuff to be found :)

@Plergux ooh :)

@Vanny Hello

@Vanny We very very occasionally use a separate room, but normally inter-mod stuff is by email

@JosephWright oh so no secret duck room?

The LaTeX Team  submitted updates to the latex-base-dev, latex-amsmath-dev, latex-tools-dev, latex-graphics-dev, latex-firstaid-dev bundles.

Version:  2021-11-15 pre-release 2, except latex-firstaid-dev, which is v.1.0o 2021-06-28

TUG could announce what wasn't updated from L3. :)

@PauloCereda Skype

@JosephWright ooh

@MarcelKrüger do you think you and @PhelypeOleinik could tackle somehow the structure destination problem I described on the developer list?

@PabloGonzálezL you mean the warnings? I should probably add a check for the format.

@UlrikeFischer Yes...that's exactly what I meant :)

@UlrikeFischer Just wanted to blame @PhelypeOleinik for a bit (so it's not always you :).

@UlrikeFischer What list do you mean?

@PauloCereda ooh, hic sunt dracones

@UlrikeFischer Is it enough if non-user actions support an attr option to add arbitrary text to the action dictionary or is there some need for more direct support?

@PhelypeOleinik tex-developer

@PhelypeOleinik I meant tex-implementors ;-)

@MarcelKrüger well the pressing part is the creating of the destination, so the \pdfdest name {ZZZ} obj 40 fit extension. An extension of \pdfstartlink is not really needed, but if it is done its main purpose would be to give a warning if the named structure destination doesn't exist, so an arbitrary text doesn't make sense (I could do that already).

@UlrikeFischer I assumed that the destination can be created manually and a warning would be rather unnecessary since the will always be a corresponding regular destination which will be warned about, so having a warning for the structured one would be redundant. Am I missing something?

(The idea of having arbitrary text there is to warn based on the regular destination(which doesn't work with user AFAICT) while still allowing to add the structured stuff.)

@MarcelKrüger well one naturally can create a destination manually, but then I have problems to get the coordinates for the XYZ type, FitR type etc., and I can't create named destinations.

@UlrikeFischer Since PDF doesn't have native support for named structured destinations, engine supported named destinations would be on the same level as ones emulated through macros. But anyway, I'll look into implementing it.

@MarcelKrüger hm you are right. the SD key expects an array, so probably you can't use named destinations. But it still remains the problem with FitR and XYZ. I don't want to restrict them to Fit.

@DavidCarlisle that is a nice longtable bug. Do you already know why it happens?

@UlrikeFischer no been out this evening just got back. Well I have an idea the output routine gets switched but on its first call it just outputs the previous page not the expected start of table so it adds the tablehead at the top of the page on its second call but that comes above the section heading before the table.

@barbarabeeton yes we rushed that fix through so it just made it (with minutes to go:-) into that dev release.

@barbarabeeton teh dev releases are currently claiming a nominal release date of LaTeX2e <2021-11-15> pre-release-2 so not by October 15

@DavidCarlisle -- Okay, thanks. Please keep us posted. If there's a delay for the issue, squeaking it in may just be possible. Or if that's not possible, a pre-release notice can be included in my "news" column.