TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2021-06-12

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6:38 AM

@DavidCarlisle I wasn't using any encoding, at least intentionally. Just the defaults. And pdflatex.

The preamble of that document looks like:

\documentclass[12pt, twoside=semi, cleardoublepage=current]{scrartcl}
\usepackage{url}
\usepackage{array}
\usepackage{amssymb}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\usepackage{tcolorbox}
\usepackage{stmaryrd}
\begin{document}

This document was until recently a text file. I've been converting it to TeX.

@barbarabeeton I have not used Grammarly because I object to it on principle. The ads I've seen continuously claim that "good writing=good grammar" which could not be further from the truth, even in academic texts. The bottom line being that the only input it can give you is grammatic which is your last concern when writing text of any kind.

Apart from Grammarly, there are also tools like languagetool.org which are based on open-source software and act more like an intelligent spell checker with some grammar suggestions (sometimes they are a bit off). It can be integrated into quite a number of editors, e.g. TeX Studio (see tex.stackexchange.com/questions/155148/…).

4

7:05 AM

I feel a bit rude dropping in after being absent soooo long and ask for unrelated advice, but… has anyone here ever tried to read data from an Excel spreadsheet using Lua? I found a promising repo or two but no luck once I tried them out. Yes I could export the data to a CSV file first and then I’d be okay, but it’d be nice to have a one-step process…

1 hour later…

8:32 AM

@WillRobertson I've been using an SQLite DB.

I think you'd have to run a conversion step first.

8:51 AM

@FaheemMitha same as every other time, the default is OT1 and anything other than a-z is not in an ascii compatible position: chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=FaheemMitha+OT1+&room=41

9:06 AM

@WillRobertson we wub you <3

@DavidCarlisle quack

@PauloCereda I would say breakfast but as Will is here: Dinner

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Stefan Kottwitz

9:30 AM

🙂 Hi Will! 🙃

@StefanKottwitz ɐᴉlɐɹʇsn∀ ɥoo

2

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda Error: Unicode character ɐ (U+0250) not set up for use with LaTeX. 😒

@StefanKottwitz oh no

Stefan Kottwitz

We should fix the Unicode support for our Australian friends.

@StefanKottwitz ooh

lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957

@barbarabeeton ooh twitter.com/disappoptimism/status/1402559062781345793

3

9:48 AM

@StefanKottwitz \rotatebox

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda some bloke really needs a kernel update

@StefanKottwitz negative kernel :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda and what is this 5th Linux distribution?

@StefanKottwitz AnxiousLinux :)

@PauloCereda boom bang crash ;-)

10:00 AM

@UlrikeFischer ooh :)

10:31 AM

@UlrikeFischer rm -r fonts; ln -s ../../2021/texmf-dist/fonts . in real systems (or even layers pretending to be real systems:-)

@DavidCarlisle I'm just trying with mklink.

@UlrikeFischer in theory you could alsojust change the web2c ...FONT paths but I just looked at texmf.cnf and there is no top level variable for the fonts directory so you would have to change lots

@UlrikeFischer did you see that you broke unicode-math ?

@DavidCarlisle no where?

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@UlrikeFischer github.com/wspr/unicode-math/issues/570

10:38 AM

@DavidCarlisle a zillion emails about "pdflatex does not work on Windows", part 2

@DavidCarlisle oh, tabu.

@PauloCereda I use OS/2 not windows so I don't care

@UlrikeFischer it only affects people who read documentation

3

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@PauloCereda ooh

@PauloCereda I will need a new laptop, on my keyboard the o is starting to fail, yesterday I had to use the menu instead of ctlr + o ;-).

10:42 AM

@UlrikeFischer oopsie :)

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@PauloCereda psie

2

@DavidCarlisle Thankfully there's still the z key

@PauloCereda but she has a German keyboad so that key will be in perfect as-new working order as it can't be found.

@DavidCarlisle of course, @UlrikeFischer could use the oh so easy U+006f to typeset o, who needs a new keyboard? :)

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@PauloCereda h

10:45 AM

@DavidCarlisle øøh

@DavidCarlisle or perhaps write in l33t

00h

@PauloCereda 101

@Plergux I love this sheep so much <3

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle Ok I'll try totatebox.

user image

@StefanKottwitz ooh

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda Nice font you have :-)

10:48 AM

@StefanKottwitz quack :)

@Plergux since @Joseph released series 3 of siunitx, I think he should use your Pokémon drawing as the cover for the package. :)

2

@WillRobertson This might get you started: gist.github.com/zauguin/a1c73bf596a08e51d8a9d94f485c8a27 (Depends on github.com/Phrogz/SLAXML and requires texlua or LuaTeX instead of plain Lua)

@PauloCereda :D \ducklove

@Plergux baa :)

@PauloCereda lol

@MarcelKrüger ooh this is naughty

11:13 AM

@UlrikeFischer github.com/wspr/unicode-math/issues/570#issuecomment-860038746

@DavidCarlisle lastpage problem?

@UlrikeFischer yes but it might be a "last page if longtable has just finished on that page" problem but the labels don't get written unless I add some text to the page

@DavidCarlisle I can try to make a smaller example in the afternoon.

@UlrikeFischer you don't consider a 167 page docuemnt using every known math font to be a minimal example?

4

11:51 AM

@MarcelKrüger Thank you so much! Out of curiosity what does texlua have in this context that plain Lua does not?

@WillRobertson probably some libraries shipped out of the box. :)

12:37 PM

@WillRobertson @PauloCereda is of course right. <3 TeXLua includes luazip which is needed since the files are actually ZIP files. (It could be avoided by writing a ZIP file reader in Lua, but that would require some Lua version of zlib. This again is provided by texlua but not by plain Lua. To avoid even that, you either have to implement deflate in Lua (and I don't think that anyone wants to do that) or install one of the libraries manually.

@MarcelKrüger ooh a challenge

@PauloCereda I think @MarcelKrüger meant "surprisingly" not "of course"

@DavidCarlisle oh

@PauloCereda There actually already exists multiple DEFLATE implementations in Lua. So I guess someone already accepted the challenge.

@MarcelKrüger ooh

12:54 PM

any French speakers can comment on Fontes v Polices ? github.com/learnlatex/learnlatex.github.io/pull/184/files

@DavidCarlisle Ask Yannis? He is quoted here fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonte_de_caractères

1:22 PM

@UlrikeFischer I was going to ask jejust, but google suggests its polices

2:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle this here looses the label too. I'm not sure about the role of booktabs, if it only change spacing or does more:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{longtable,booktabs}
\textheight 5\baselineskip
\begin{document}%
\ref{abc}
\begin{longtable}[l]{@{}l@{}}
a\\a\\a\\
b\\b\\b\\b\\\bottomrule
\end{longtable}

\refstepcounter{section}\label{abc}
\end{document}

2:15 PM

@DavidCarlisle and an example without booktabs:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{longtable}
\textheight 5\baselineskip
\begin{document}%
\ref{abc}
\begin{longtable}[l]{@{}l@{}}
a\\a\\a\\
b\\b\\[2pt]b\\b\\\hline
\end{longtable}

\refstepcounter{section}\label{abc}
\end{document}

3:06 PM

@UlrikeFischer I get same in tl2020 so not recent changes. Ideal would be to replicate using multicol instead of longtable, then blame Frank.

@DavidCarlisle ;-) my first example used hyperref (which then nicely complains about missing destinations) but I carefully removed it.

@DavidCarlisle like this:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{multicol}
\textheight 5\baselineskip
\begin{document}%
\ref{abc}
\begin{multicols}{2}
a\\a\\a\\
b\\b\\[2pt]b\\b\\b
\end{multicols}

\refstepcounter{section}\label{abc}
\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer simpler:

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}%
\ref{abc}
a
\clearpage
\refstepcounter{section}\label{abc}
\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer I thiought the new secret last page thing was supposed to catch that last case?

@DavidCarlisle well clearpage is known. Would it work if we change the writing to immediate as we discussed lately?

@UlrikeFischer yes

@UlrikeFischer odd thing is why Will's document worked with tabu before but I don't think I want to debug that

@DavidCarlisle well it is highly succeptible to small changes in height/page breaking etc. You really need to get the longtable just at the end of the page.

4:09 PM

Because the content of a TikZ matrix is generated by a foreach loop:

Can one do that with standard LaTeX, without xparse, etoolbox etc.

7

Q: Nested foreach inside a TikZ matrix for both rows and columns

I'm trying to create a matrix using nested \foreach loops. I tried following the example I found in a previous question, but I keep getting errors. Here is the code I tried to run: \documentclass{article} \usepackage{etoolbox} \usepackage{tikz} \usetikzlibrary{matrix} \begin{document} \let\my...

@cis xparse is standard latex, the commands are in the kernel, as are all the expl3 commands. tikz is not standard latex ...

@DavidCarlisle Well, it sucks that the default "encoding" isn't something sensible.

Why not change it to something better, assuming that the something better is available by default?

4:32 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- I'm pretty sure it's "police". (It took me quite a while to get used to that.)

@FaheemMitha -- The default coding (OT1) was in fact the most sensible in 1978. (You might look at this TUGboat article: tug.org/members/TUGboat/tb42-1/tb130beeton-lapses.pdf (You might have to wait if you're not a TUG member.) But I believe that UTF-8 is now the default in all but Knuthian TeX.

4:47 PM

@barbarabeeton Well, I'm using pdftex. And it's been 25 years, give or taking, but I still don't know what an encoding is.

Also, it's not 1978 any longer.

samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21

@DavidCarlisle cahiers.gutenberg.eu.org/fitem?id=CG_2007___49_19_0 has some discussion of the difference between "font" and "police" - seem to be complicate and depend on the context

@FaheemMitha well if we change from OT1 to T1 then some documents will be typeset differently, as the fonts will change and some people don't like the idea ...

1 hour later…

6:00 PM

@FaheemMitha but people expect their old documents to work

@barbarabeeton no plain tex is still basically OT1 as input encoding for all engines

@DavidCarlisle -- Okay. Thanks for the correction.

6:19 PM

@UlrikeFischer @DavidCarlisle Ah, yes, backward compatibility. I forgot about that.

6:46 PM

@cis as @UlrikeFischer says expl3 and xparse are as much standard latex as \newcommand but you can simplify it a lot, you don't need nested loops or in fact any loop at all, and you don't need to build up the table body in a macro before starting the table,

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usetikzlibrary{matrix}

\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}

\def\cell#1#2{%
r#1c#2%
\ifnum#2=5
  \ifnum#1<8
   \\\cell{\the\numexpr#1+1\relax}{1}%
  \fi
\else
\&\cell{#1}{\the\numexpr#2+1\relax}%
\fi}


\matrix[matrix of nodes, ampersand replacement=\&,
column sep=2ex,  label={Matrix}
] (m){
\cell{1}{1}\\
};
\end{tikzpicture}
\end{document}

7:04 PM

latex-project.org/help/documentation/encguide.pdf has some history, though I would be doing well to remember pdftex uses OT1 by default.

@FaheemMitha it shouldn't be hard to remember something that has been unchanged since latex first came out in 1985 or so (although it wasn't called OT1 then)

@DavidCarlisle Isn't that basically the same as the New Modern fonts?

@FaheemMitha computer modern (not new modern) yes it's Knuth's standard tex font set

Though I don't understand why it couldn't be changed for pdflatex even if it was the original encoding.

@DavidCarlisle Computer modern, sorry.

Since PDFTeX was a new thing.

@FaheemMitha not really: people expected to get essentially the same documents as in latex/dvips and anyway when pdftex came out there wasn't really any alternative. We did consider making T1 (8 bit)) the default when latex2e was released but the fonts were too new and not widely enough available and people were quite vocal they didn't want old documents to change

@FaheemMitha and it's not really any hardship to add \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} look at more or less any example document on this site.

7:13 PM

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 if we suggest packages for your project do you want us to make sure that they do what they say they do? or can we just send you whatever we've come across and think is interesting/helpful/amusing?

samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21

@Plergux I have a disclaimer that I don't guarantee that the packages are any good or even work, so whatever is interesting/helpful/amusing is fine (btw I will start with this on July 1st, until then I'm collecting to have some pool to choose from)

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 Ok, cool :) Cause I have a list of stuff I've come across, the theme being sort of "ooh! I'll have to have a look at that later" but most of them are still just on the list :p

@UlrikeFischer guess which package does \global\setbox\@ne

samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21

@Plergux sounds very promising :)

Yes, I meant something like that. -
Post this in the thread, then others will also benefit from it.

To be honest, I didn't have the patience to pull out a LaTeX-only solution with or without xparse, etoolbox, etc.

So I wrote the data in an external text file and read it in again with pgfplotstable.

\documentclass[margin=5mm, varwidth]{standalone}
\usepackage{tikz}
%\usetikzlibrary{matrix}
\usepackage{pgfplotstable}
\pgfplotsset{compat=newest}

\tikzset{
declare function={
H(\k,\n)=(\n<\k+1 ? 0 : 1);
h(\k,\n)=H(\k,\n)*(\n-\k);
ZstartS(\n)=int(  \n*2+h(2,\n)*6+h(4,\n)*10+h(6,\n)*14+h(8,\n)*18-1  );
L(\l)=int(  2*\l*\l-2  );% maximale Besetzung des l-ten Orbitals
Zstart(\n,\l)=int(  \n<(\l+1) ? -1 : ZstartS(\n+\l)-L(\l+1)  );
},}

\begin{document}
\def\OutFilename{PSE-Startzahlen.txt}
\newwrite\MyFile

samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21

7:29 PM

@Plergux I had sheep neighbours last week: a flock of sheep was camping in the nature reserve across the street from the office. They provided a nice background music :)

user image

So you can now make an atom with up to 499 protons (electrons).
(The current record is something like 120.)

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 :D I love listening to sheep. They go "baaa!" "baaa!" and then there is always the one that goes "bblllrraaarrrrrhhhhggg!" XD

samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21

@Plergux yes, and they seem incredible polite: always one sheep speaking after another

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 yeah, they're probably gossiping. that's why everybody listens when one of them is speaking XD

@DavidCarlisle -- I am confused by this answer: tex.stackexchange.com/a/601005 The example does produce what is claimed/shown, but the first display is way overfull; I don't understand why it's not "centered" on the page width, which would push it to the left (effectively resulting in the positioning of the second display). And except for that ridiculously long line in the middle, \intertext wouldn't shift the second display to the left. What am I missing?

samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21

7:41 PM

@Plergux That also explains why they are standing so close together :)

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 Yes, they all want to hear the juicy stories :p

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 I once had a male cat who had never seen sheeps before. Then he got up on a stone and watched an old sheep, confused. And the sheep watched him.

samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21

@cis :) I wonder what both of them thought! The cat was probably contemplating how comfortable it would be to sit on top of the sheep

@barbarabeeton the final line Hence, $R$ is additively absorbing is inside the alignment (for no good reason) so making the lhs large and stopping the = moving to the left to accomodate the long text o n the right

@Plergux and @samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 -- I heard a nice story on the radio this morning. An SUV was in an accident; none of the passengers was hurt, but their dog was missing. Two days later, a local shepherd checked on his sheep, and they were nicely being herded by two dogs. Wait ... two dogs? I only have one. The second was the missing (but very happy) border collie, who was returned unharmed (but probably unhappy) to his family.

7:49 PM

@cis I see absolutely nothing is going to persuade you that pgfmath is not helping you do these calculations:-)

@barbarabeeton aaaaw... My sister has a border collie who was supposed to be a sheep dog but she was afraid of the sheep XD so my sisters friend (the dogs former owner) gave it to her :p

@DavidCarlisle -- Oh. Obvious. Thanks. But in any event, this isn't a good answer for probably any other condition. Do you want to comment on that, or should I?

@barbarabeeton feel free:-)

@barbarabeeton I have to fix one of my packages that's been bug free and unchanged since 1995 but now somebody broke it :-(

samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21

@barbarabeeton Such a lovely story! I bet the dog had a fun few days :)

@DavidCarlisle just saw the issue ;-) Isn't it good if one know the problem already?

7:52 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- Dommage. Be sure to check the comments for the spelling of "teh". (Should I ask which package?)

@barbarabeeton ltxtable (and don't ask which package broke it)

@DavidCarlisle -- I shall refrain.

@barbarabeeton I always spell teh correctly

@Plergux -- Golly! I've never heard of a border collie that was afraid of sheep! They must be really scary sheep!

@barbarabeeton the good news is the scary sheep were rounded up and eaten, so problem solved.

7:56 PM

@DavidCarlisle I hadn't realized that it is your package, I mixed up ltablex and ltxtable. Could you rename it to "davids-longtable-meats-tabularx"? ;-)

Yes, it is already clear that you are saying that. But that's only a small part of a larger calculation.
(The occupation number of a certain orbital is a function that is dependent on the "ordinal number", major sequence number, secondary quantum number, initial number of occupation, maximum occupation).

This is complicated enough, I need normal CAS syntax for it.

I basically work with external text files for longer lists.

The advantage is that the text file could have been created in any other way, e.g. with Mathematica. I only do this out of enthusiasm with pgfmath / LaTeX.

@UlrikeFischer why-the-heck-are-you-still-using-this.sty

@DavidCarlisle I thought that would be xspace :D

@DavidCarlisle -- Some years ago, Gordon and I visited Blenheim Palace and were wandering about the grounds. Seems like the sheep had the run of the place, and some of them were pretty scary! (I snitched a wisp of wool that was caught on a twig. It was quite grubby, so I washed it. Amazing! So white that it almost glowed.)

@TeXnician we could give them all the same name and look which one kpathsea prefers ;-)

8:01 PM

@barbarabeeton Well, Icelandic sheep are pretty fearless but that dog isn't exactly brave either XD

@barbarabeeton the duke of Marlborough could have you incarcerated for theft if word of that gets out. I suppose you nicked his golden loo as well?

@Plergux -- I have a friend in California who is very fond of (standard) collies. She does her best to convince them to run through an agility maze, but I once watched as one of them departed the path to herd a flock of little kids. (Those little kids weren't nearly as scary as some sheep.)

@barbarabeeton yeah, sheep can be pretty feisty. I should know, I've been head butted by one of them XD

@DavidCarlisle -- The object in the house that most intrigued me was a tapestry, woven by someone who didn't know how horses' legs are put together, and got the joints backwards. Very funny! But I didn't try to take it home.

@Plergux -- I hope it was one without horns.

@barbarabeeton I don't remember. I just remember the bump on my forehead XD

8:15 PM

@UlrikeFischer interesting packaging mechanism for ltxtable

LaTeX Warning: File `ltxtable.sty' already exists on the system.
               Not generating it from this source.

It's a good job the code is bug free and hasn't needed an update since 1995, since it refuses to install any updates.

samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21

@barbarabeeton maybe you like thedicamillo.com/the-great-houses-of-yorkshire (there is a link to a recording of the lecture on youtube)

8:32 PM

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 -- Looks interesting. I'll check it out. (While we're recommending, I enjoyed the mystery novel "Three Bags Full: A Sheep Detective Story", by Leonie Swann. I read it in English, but the original was written in German, I believe; don't know the original title. @Plergux -- you might be amused by this tool)

@barbarabeeton That book sounds awesome :D I might even have a go at reading it in the original German :p

@Plergux -- You'll meet some very sharp sheep!

samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21

@barbarabeeton Thanks! Looks very interesting! I just looked it up and the German title seems to be "Glennkill: Ein Schafskrimi"

Mopple the Whale sounds like a funny character

9:02 PM

@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 -- For a whale story (also today's news), a fisherman (lobster diver) found himself inside the mouth of a humpback whale, but he was spit out shortly after. A humpback is a baleen whale, that feeds by gulping in a great amount of water, then pushes out the water through the baleen, so that only the edible content is saved. Since the whale's throat is only big enough to swallow a middle-sized fish, no way a diver could get swallowed. But it was a big surprise!

9:27 PM

@barbarabeeton :D

@DavidCarlisle what is your oldest package now?

9:54 PM

@UlrikeFischer not sure, plain.sty is % 1996/04/22

@DavidCarlisle can I break it ? ;-)

@UlrikeFischer I don't even know if it still works for you to break

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