@DavidCarlisle quack

@PauloCereda do you wanna know the time of the day? It's breakfast time.

@Skillmon oh no

@DavidCarlisle twitter.com/danrkports/status/1366898431621406720

> Learned that the Roomba is programmed in a dialect of Lisp. I guess that makes sense, because the hardware is optimized for garbage collection.

@UlrikeFischer Fixes for colour stack are in TL

@JosephWright ooh a nugget of pure green? :)

It's been a while since we last quoted Blackadder. :)

@JosephWright yes just getting it. Did you see the new graphics-def question?

@UlrikeFischer quack <3

@PauloCereda To late for breakfast ;-( Btw: I got yesterday a surprise package from a tex.sx user with schocolate and wine ;-)

@UlrikeFischer OOH

Schokoladenwein

@PauloCereda I refer you to @Skillmon's comment

@DavidCarlisle ooh a pointer

@PauloCereda I shouldn't type at the same time in german and english, that's not good for the spelling.

@UlrikeFischer oh no :)

@UlrikeFischer Sie benötigen ausgezeichnete Sprachkenntnisse, um "teh" in mehreren Sprachen eingeben zu können

@DavidCarlisle what is the translation of "Wollen wir uns nicht duzen?"?

@UlrikeFischer Kannst du es mir leisten?

@DavidCarlisle hm, translation breakdown. What was the english source?

@UlrikeFischer it back translated OK here, just losing a ? "Can you afford me?"

@DavidCarlisle I'm not sure that I get the english meaning of afford in connection with a person.

@DavidCarlisle did you see the question on the tl list about the new warning

@UlrikeFischer Do you have enough money to pay my extortionate daily rates for commercial consultancy

LaTeX Warning: File `graph-test.1' not found on input line 5 ?

@UlrikeFischer er not yet...

@DavidCarlisle this here warns about the missing file but then includes it:

@UlrikeFischer can we blame @PhelypeOleinik's file handling code?

@UlrikeFischer No?

@PauloCereda Indeed

@UlrikeFischer Doesn't really translate as we don't have the same concept in English (at one point there was a move that way, but really thou/you in English was strictly singular/plural not informal/formal)

@DavidCarlisle looks more like a question of the processing in graphics, if one adds an explicit rule \DeclareGraphicsRule{.1}{mps}{.1}{} it works.

@JosephWright yes I know. But I was more wondering how to say "if you write in german (or french or some of the many other language you mastered with such a distinction) you could use 'du'"

@UlrikeFischer Hmm, something about 'Write as though you are talking to a friend; formality is not required'?

ooh du hast

@JosephWright yes, something like this. Now I wonder if one can tell google translate to be "not formal" ;-)

@UlrikeFischer :)

@UlrikeFischer I'll look later

@JosephWright If you didn't know the concept you wouldn't know what she meant, so I take it you mean that the concept is not lexically/grammatically marked by English speakers. :p

@Plergux I speak some German and French, so I know it from those languages :)

@Plergux As you say, it's not marked in English: other than for God, 'you' is used universally in standard English

@JosephWright Yeah, I know. :p I'm just super hyper sensitive to anything that sounds like people attributing any kind of "content creation" to words and language (like talking about "bad words", as if words could have intent). :p

@Plergux Ah, right, yes

@JosephWright Je suis le canard

@Plergux ooh pee po belly bum drawers

@PauloCereda lol

@DavidCarlisle You misspelled @UlrikeFischer :) (but probably yes; I'll take a look)

@PhelypeOleinik that's a good split, I take the blame and you do the work ;-)

@PauloCereda I don't know why everyone makes so much fun of LISP. I've been working in a LISP-based environment for about 10 years and I'm already able to copy-paste a declaration.

@UlrikeFischer :)

@yo' ooh :)

@PauloCereda giving a talk in our internal seminar today actually. Topic: Crash course in music typesetting with LilyPond :)

@yo' ooh lovely!

@yo' Will be available later?

@PauloCereda not really I'm afraid. And you certainly know all this stuff I'm gonna talk about

@yo' no, you are the Lilypond expert. :)

@PauloCereda yeah, but what do you cover in 30 minutes?

@yo' Use this template, here you write the chords, here you write the melody, here you write the lyrics... don't ask anything related to this template, simply use it. :)

@PauloCereda yeah, something like that. Unless you need special stuff, like a 45-degree backslash within figured bass...

@yo' oopsie :)

@PauloCereda your big brother just joined the site?

@DavidCarlisle hm?

@DavidCarlisle that's a huge duck!

@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright A storm of “not our fault” mails :)

@PhelypeOleinik :)

@PhelypeOleinik but I was first ;-)

@UlrikeFischer You are fast! :)

@PhelypeOleinik and my mail was shorter ;-). And I did told him days ago that lipsum is broken, but obviously it didn't sink in ...

@UlrikeFischer The error does look misleading though. Maybe that was why

@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright Maybe that should go into firstaid, if the maintainer doesn't fix. It wouldn't be nice breaking lipsum

Bug reports in Latin would be hard :)

@PhelypeOleinik We should perhaps mail the maintainer directly. There is no activity in the github, perhaps he didn't see the issue.

@UlrikeFischer That could work (even though he should get mail from github activity). Want to do the honours, or should I?

@JosephWright oh am I famous now? :)

@PhelypeOleinik you can do it if you want. I'm just trying to improve the annotations ;-).

@UlrikeFischer Okay. Good annotating!

@yo' :)

What's @JosephWright looking for?

@PauloCereda transparency obviously.

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@DavidCarlisle I'm drafting a report to UK-TUG on learnlatex.org

@JosephWright I hardly dare ask what itll say..

@DavidCarlisle github.com/learnlatex/articles/tree/master/UK-TUG-report

^^ I never realized that Arabic is so crazy!

@yo' s/crazy/challenging/ :)

@JosephWright s/crazy/\0 and challenging/ :)

@yo' I suspect Arabic speakers look at western languages and think 'are these people simple: can't they cope?' or similar (also 'why is their text so lacking in artistry')

@JosephWright s/Arabic/Czech/; s/western/Germanic/ ;-)

\NewDocumentCommand\acro{m}{\textsc{\tl_lower_case:n{#1}}}

@JosephWright ^^ show-off :)

@PauloCereda Ooh deprecated commands :)

@PhelypeOleinik ooh teh irony

@PauloCereda :)

COMPILE IT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE

@PhelypeOleinik da boss :)

@yo' :)

@JosephWright I should one day do a talk on the complications of the Czech language :)

@JosephWright learlatex <-- typo (and the url is not working as it misses the https)

@UlrikeFischer Typo fixed

@JosephWright there is also a "We development" which should be Web .

@UlrikeFischer Fixed

@yo' Strč prst skrz krk.

@AlexG that's the easy stuff.

@yo' ok, it's the one I know.

@AlexG Jiří řeže dříví z dřínu, tři sta řízů za vteřinu, Jiří řeže dříví z břízy, za vteřinu čtyři řízy.

Pivo prosím

@AlexG Jiří = George

@PauloCereda that's not a tongue twister, that the essential sentence of the language :)

@yo' ooh :)

@yo' Ah, good to know!

@yo' by the looks of these sentences, everything is Czech might be a tongue twister. :)

@PauloCereda might be :)

@yo' ooh skills

@PauloCereda there're not many expats in Czechia who master the language. I know quite a number of expats, but I know only one person who mastered Czech to the extent that you can't tell they haven't been born/raised here.

@PauloCereda Except "Jedno pivo, prosim", fortunately!

(for me, at least)

@yo' oh :)

@AlexG that's not difficult, as long as you know how to pronounce "j" :)

@yo' Like the German "j", I guess.

@AlexG yep :)

anyway, my seminar talk is in 4 minutes, I better get ready (increase editor font size etc.)

@yo' Na sledanou!

@yo' good luck!

@DavidCarlisle you should've written teh article

@PauloCereda येथे टायपोस नाहीत

@DavidCarlisle ooh

The learnlatex.org report is in with UK-TUG

@JosephWright ooh

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer ooh broccoli twitter.com/hyxpk/status/1367142738882306048

@PauloCereda :D

@PauloCereda counter-ooh

Hmm. $8.00 to report a bug, refundable if it really is. Should I or shouldn't I.

@PauloCereda 'teh' is teh article.

@AlanMunn I'd say no.

@AlanMunn -- That's certainly anti-Knuthian. Trying to discourage bug reporting.

@Skillmon Yeah, especially because it's an interaction with BiBdesk, and they're likely just to blame it, even though I'm pretty sure it isn't (the BibDesk developers closed my report as closed-wont-fix :) because it works with Mail.app but not Postbox (which is my mail client, and who wants to charge me...)

@barbarabeeton It's commercial software, and I suspect that it's a way of recouping all the time spent dealing with idiots users.

@AlanMunn ooh

@AlanMunn That's awful

@AlanMunn I'm intrigued how your mail client and BibDesk can interact beyond 'attachments are not working'

@JosephWright When I select multiple bib entries with linked files and choose "Send selection by email", the bib entries show up in the body of the email, but only the first linked file is attached.

@AlanMunn Not really BibDesk then, more 'misunderstanding how to handle .bib files'

@AlanMunn I was right!! Attachments not working :)

@JosephWright No, I don't think it has anything to do with bib files. Its about how it handles sharing between applications.

@AlanMunn Ah, I see: so it's fine if you just attach 'directly'

@JosephWright don't get me started on .bib files. :)

@JosephWright Yes, there's no problem with multiple attachments added from within Postbox.

@JosephWright But nothing will make me go back to Mail.app :) And this is not that big a deal, so not worth the $8.00 to report.

@AlanMunn What's the big selling point for PostBox then, for you? [I use Thunderbird irrespective of platform, so doesn't direct impact me :)]

@PauloCereda As a user, they work fine: I guess as a programmer I'd favour some XML structure

@AlanMunn For me, work are 'insisting' on Outlook, but luckily I can get round that in TB with a cheap add-in :)

@JosephWright /xml intensifies

@JosephWright yay thunderbird

@JosephWright s/a programmer/@DavidCarlisle/

@MarcelKrüger ooh

@JosephWright The main selling point was NOT { Mail.app | Outlook }. But it has a nice clean interface, and doesn't screw up your mail like Mail.app does. Good filtering capability, and works with MailSteward (which is an app I use for archiving Mail).

@JosephWright I remember trying Thunderbird when it was touted as the replacement for Eudora (which was the best mail client of all time) but hated it. It seemed very clunky at the time.

/mbox intensifies

@PauloCereda emacs rmail still the best ever, but I use thunderbird these days.

@DavidCarlisle yay <3

@AlanMunn I guess it depends what one is looking for :)

@AlanMunn I think Pine was the best client of all time, but nowadays it's hard to fine a server you can ssh to ...

@JosephWright latexcgi.xyz?

@PauloCereda :)

Let's go back to writing letters :)

@AlanMunn I guess I'm used to TB: I find Outlook very painful, not least because it's not at all easy to switch from plain text to HTML when you have to (annoying invisible or badly formatted emails)

@PauloCereda oi get off my server

@DavidCarlisle but Joseph wants to use Pine!

@JosephWright I've never really used Outlook. All I know now though is that with our shift to an Exchange server (like your uni also) there is junk mail filtering that I can't turn off, but can't be sent to imap, so I have to use Outlook to check it. It's super annoying.

@PauloCereda for the fjords probably

@DavidCarlisle lol

@DavidCarlisle LOL

@AlanMunn Ah, the junk mail business, yes

> endangered species must be protected

@UlrikeFischer ^^^ Great reason!

@JosephWright I played around with colorprofiles and ended up creating a icc-auto-comp branch in LaTeX3 based on your ICC to automatically detect the component count/white color/etc. I wasn't sure about creating a PR though since a PR for merging into a PR branch seems a bit too meta for me...

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer I wondered if this is needed for all tikzlings, but with David around it is probably true ;-)

@DavidCarlisle Me too, and after the first shock the new release is nice (especially with the "conversation" plugin). If only they fixed bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=377621 ...

@MarcelKrüger Looks fine other than a few minor tidy ups/documentation steps: I guess it depends on what the decision is about ICC spaces in general (I'd like to merge both my branches: I think there are merits to each)

@PauloCereda -- There are a few holdouts who still use alpine. (And I totally agree with @JosephWright about the horribility of Outlook, especially when it's further restricted by being run under an obfuscatory server. Security I agree with, but it's used too often as an excuse for things that are irrelevant.)

@MarcelKrüger I suggest you just fast-forward the icc branch to that commit: what would be good is some documentation on the things you are extracting

@barbarabeeton ooh I used mutt. :)

@MarcelKrüger ooh after 101 PR emails a day, a meta-PR isn't a problem. :)

@JosephWright git-vcr :)

@PauloCereda I still need to address that :)

@PauloCereda that was my MUA, before switching to TB.

@JosephWright what if pretend it never happened? :)

@Rmano ooh

@UlrikeFischer New package?

@UlrikeFischer I think the sheep are safe - at least any sheep talk around here does not provoke any remarks about breakfast/lunch/dinner

@JosephWright ctan.org/pkg/newpax

@AlanMunn -- That's the trap I was caught in at AMS. All links were obfuscated, I couldn't forward or export them. So if I needed to get at them later, I had to save them separately. But the obfuscation was applied retroactively, so I lost more than 5 years of TUGboat archive info that I hadn't thought to archive before it was too late. (And we weren't notified until months after it was done. Fie.)

The only good thing of outlook is the integration with the shared calendar(s), which I have more or less with TB. For the rest, the interface of outlook is horrible. And when I asked how to change manually the language in the composer, the answer is "what? why should you change language? it's automatic!". Then try with Italian and Spanish.

@Rmano What plugins are you using?

@JosephWright addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/…

@Rmano I meant for the shared calender business: I use OWL (beonex.com/owl) at the moment, but calenders are still less reliable than other parts of the experience

@AlanMunn sorry, was offline for a while, so my lack of empathy wasn't caused by your issue not interesting me. But honestly, anybody who's charging for bug reports doesn't want anyone from outside the project to contribute in any way, which is just sad. Best to move to another client which is more user-friendly support-wise.

@JosephWright I use gCalendarSync for my main calendar in google; and I have a read-only calendar "exported" by Office (I do not remember exactly how...) so that I can see it in TB. Reliability is low, and to change anything in the outlook calendar I have to enter O365...

@Rmano Ah, I used to use that until my place switched off IMAP

@JosephWright sssshhhh, do not tell that too loud, they're listening ;-)

@Rmano As far as They know, I'm just using webmail

@yo' Now I've got my report in on learnlatex.org, I'll try to get a blog post sorted

@JosephWright /curious

@Skillmon 'Promotional activities'

@JosephWright cool!

@Skillmon conspiracy

@Skillmon Well they're technically charging for user support more generally, and if it's a bug they'll refund the money. But I like the product and the problem isn't at all crucial for me, so it's not worth my switching to something else.

@AlanMunn ok, good to know it doesn't affect you too much.

@yo' apropros, how was your talk about lilypond?

@Skillmon went well I think

realized that about half the company play some musical instruments (maybe not half, but still we're quite many)

@yo' yeah, I'm surprised as well how many people in my personal environment play an instrument as well.

@yo' Time for an overleaf orchestra?

@Skillmon the blog is going to say "It's all @Skillmon's fault that there is no visible German translation"

@DavidCarlisle How can it be @Skillmon's fault that the German Language Day is in September?

@DavidCarlisle ooh no

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer phew, there is time left... :)

@Skillmon :D

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer we could blame Ulrike instead

I'm honestly overwhelmed with all the stuff that needs to be done elsewhere :(

@DavidCarlisle good idea, sounds like a reasonable and well tested plan.

@Skillmon just try to finish before I get longtable v5 out

@DavidCarlisle well, you chatted with me about longtable 5 like two years ago or more, measured by this, I have plenty of time left for the German translation

@Skillmon it seems I started the github repo for longtable v5 here Sat May 10 16:46:38 2014 +0000 not too long ago...

@DavidCarlisle in that case, I have quite a couple of years left

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer more a baroque electronic jazz metal I think :D

@yo' sounds extravagant :)

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer well, I'd say it sounds unplausible :)

@yo' Sounds great! :) Assuming it's already been done, I'm sure @PauloCereda will know where to find it on the web.