quack

baa!

ooh

@Plergux hi sheep person!

@AlanMunn @Plergux twitter.com/Gryffix/status/1363670623600472066

@PauloCereda Hi duck person!

@PauloCereda mmmyyyeeesss... says the nationality that randomly chucks chucks of woodchucks at unsuspecting foreigners. :p

@Plergux oooooooh <3

What has siunitx ever done for us? ^^

@PauloCereda colours are wrong: the British empire was traditionally marked in red

@DavidCarlisle ooh

ooh

@PauloCereda is there a map for "ooh," and "ooh." and "ooh!" usage?

@UlrikeFischer oh I don't think so

@UlrikeFischer just google for "map of Brazil"

@PauloCereda In which regard is "Arabic decimal separator" different from Comma (apart from the font package used)?

@AlexG I've absolutely no idea. :)

Useless information of the day (at 10:45): Since 10:00 there have been 43 registered earthquakes and five of them rattled my house (ca. 5 and over). :p

en.vedur.is/earthquakes-and-volcanism/earthquakes

@Plergux oh my

@PauloCereda That is unusual for Reykjavík though. Usually there is like a chain of them and one big one that you might feel here (like, the house legitimately shakes) but this time there's lots of them. Who knows, maybe Reykjanes is about to explode :p

@Plergux oh no

@PauloCereda Well, you could kiss the Blue Lagoon goodbye. :p Not that I'd miss it. Totally overrated.

@Plergux oh no, Brooke Shields

Oh wait, that's another blue lagoon

Sorry :)

@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle Looks like SVG can use profiles for colour in general (w3.org/TR/css-color-4/#at-profile) - I'll need to think about how to select the colour though!

@PauloCereda lol. She'd be, like, sixty or something anyway :p

@Plergux indeed :D

We love how TeX is consistent, don't we? :)

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{mathtools}
%\usepackage{unicode-math}\setmathfont{XITS Math}
\begin{document}
\Huge $\Coloneq$
\end{document}

@Plergux Welcome to Iceland!

@yo' well, it at least says

 Package unicode-math Warning: I'm going to overwrite the following commands from the `mathtools' package:  \dblcolon, \coloneqq, \Coloneqq, \eqqcolon. Note that since I won't overwrite the other colon-like commands, using them will lead to inconsistencies.

@Rmano yeah, so just comment out mathtools when you uncomment unicode-math. The point is the same: Two similar but substantially different symbols under the same name :)

@yo' yes... namespaces ;-)

@Rmano well, in this case I would say a bug. Both are in the same namespace: mathematical symbols.

Now we need someone to blame.

@yo' ooh we could ask @DavidCarlisle

@Rmano looking at your avatar always brightens up my day!

@PauloCereda happy to serve!

@PauloCereda ask if he's to be blamed?

@yo' he might have some suggestions. :)

@yo' Heh heh heh... I'm always hoping we'll have a super eruption so that we'll all have to be moved to Canada. :p

@Plergux s/have to be/be/

@yo' is/lost...

ooh if sheep person comes to Canada, it might be easier for me to visit, although I would still need a visa...

@PauloCereda you need a visa to Iceland? I thought no?

@yo' oh no idea, let me check

@PauloCereda either way, neither of you likely needs visa to Czechia :)

@yo' ooh I don't need a visa

(but I need one for Canada)

@yo' ooh

@PauloCereda not a surprised. It was the same for us until I think we joined the EU

@yo' oh

@AlexG It's upside down as it happens with other punctuation signs in Arabic script

@JairoA.delRio Ah, thank you.

@PauloCereda Yeah, we don't need no stinking Brazilians.

@AlanMunn We don't need no education!

@AlanMunn oh

@Skillmon Just another duck in the wall.

ooh

@PauloCereda counter-ooh

@Skillmon <3

@PauloCereda ooh, a carrot! Here, have one, too: <3

@Skillmon ooh

@PauloCereda counter-ooh

@DavidCarlisle I took the first step in renaming master to main (graphics-def)

@JosephWright /Metallica intensifies

@DavidCarlisle Also a few other 'low use' ones - unicode-data (@MarcelKrüger), graphics-cfg, tex-ini-files

@AlexG @PauloCereda In the map the wrong comma appears, maybe that's a font issue. But weirder things happen

@PauloCereda Main of Puppets?

@Skillmon it's not catchy anymore :(

@PauloCereda ooh, Mad Max: Main/Blaster

@JosephWright why don't you rename it to mainz? It would be perfect.

yep, not catchy indeed :(

@JosephWright good I was going to suggest we do those next (I think I just did hyperref and iftex under latex3 so far?)

ooh

@DavidCarlisle Sounds about right: just did most of my own ones (will check with @samcarter_waiting_for_summer before doing beamer)

Call me ignorant, but I don't see any good reason to rename master -> main in my projects...

/Hetfield intensifies

@JosephWright where did you get the test icc from? Is there a specific reason why you use this one and not the sRGB.icc in texlive?

@UlrikeFischer It's the reference one from ICC

@UlrikeFischer color.org/srgbprofiles.xalter

@JosephWright is it free to use?

@yo' And it's probably cheaper than Canada. :p

@UlrikeFischer >To anyone who acknowledges that the file "sRGB_v4_ICC_preference.icc" is provided "AS IS" WITH NO EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY, permission to use, copy and distribute this file for any purpose is hereby granted without fee, provided that the file is not changed including the ICC copyright notice tag ...

@UlrikeFischer I didn't know the other one was in TL

@JosephWright there are two profiles in the colorprofiles package. If the reference one could be added there it would be nice (one will still need the other ones, as some pdf/A standards require an icc with version smaller than 4).

@UlrikeFischer Oh, yes, also as we are using an isolated test we can't see sRGB.icc anyway, so I'd have to add something

@Plergux You know what's the difference between a Czech and a Canadian lumbrjack?

@yo' no

@JosephWright No objections from my side :) I already renamed most of my repositories.

@Plergux That's the right answer: None -- They both earn enough for a ticket to Prague in one day.

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer Cool

@UlrikeFischer The sRGB.icc one seems to have quite an odd source ....

@yo' ouch...

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer Done

@Plergux it was a popular 90's joke.

@JosephWright :thumbsup:

@JosephWright I have no idea ;-) I know that there was a longish discussion on the texlive list at some time, where they tried to sort out if it is free and can be added. But if you or @MarcelKrüger have some better suggestion, you could write Norbert.

So now everybody is recording a video to be sent to space?!

@UlrikeFischer I think the ICC one is free-to-use but not Libre in the Debian sense

@JosephWright That's definitely the case for the v4 one (you are not allowed to modify it) but the ICC v2 version should satisfy Debian's rules. (It allows modification as long as the identifiers are changed, which Debian allows nowadays as a compromise if I interpret their wiki correctly)

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer oh no twitter.com/hyxpk/status/1364606036338872322

@PauloCereda Better not show this to @DavidCarlisle. Lemon ducks might give him bad ideas...

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer oh no

@Plergux -- That's what you get for living on the mid-Atlantic ridge.

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer dinner perhaps?

@MarcelKrüger Sigh: I wonder if some people understand the idea of a reference standard file

@DavidCarlisle That's what I was afraid of :)

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@Plergux -- This one's for you: reuters.com/article/us-australia-sheep/… I think this couldn't happen in Iceland. Not enough forests.

@DavidCarlisle twitter.com/Lexialex/status/1364575096979951617 ouch

> Pitching a show today called Yallah dig! about a group of Egyptian Englandologists who were able to buy an excavation permit for Westminster Abby after England finds itself in dire financial need 20 years after Brexit. Wish me luck.

@barbarabeeton Yeah, like if I had a choice I'd choose to live here O.o

@barbarabeeton Well, they have mountains instead. I can tell you from my experience with sheep that their relation to goats isn't that far off when it comes to running up a mountain. There are lots of feral sheep in Iceland. And every year we had a few that were either not marked or we thought had died (didn't show up years before).

@Plergux -- I've seen goats climbing trees in Morocco. But never sheep climbing trees. But if there aren't any trees, there's no way to compare. (I know they both climb mountains, or rocks in general.)

@barbarabeeton Well, they climb trees in Monty Python. :p

@Plergux -- I'm not sure I'd like to try shearing any sheep (or goat) except a very young one. Certainly not one that had managed to stay away from the shears for more than a year.

@Plergux -- In Monty Python, many unusual and unexpected things happen.

@barbarabeeton They've got a mean kick if you don't get them right. But most of them just let you get on with it once you've "sat them down". :p

@barbarabeeton This is true :p

@PauloCereda There are even suggestions for a sequel: twitter.com/Catwhoorg/status/1364582246229946371 :)

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer LOL

@PhelypeOleinik, @DavidCarlisle Seen Petr O's idea about \par?

@JosephWright Reading it now

@JosephWright no where?

@JosephWright Hm... That should make the \par business easier to handle in odd places. But also a lot easier to mess up with a misuse of \partoken :)

@DavidCarlisle tex-implementors list

@PhelypeOleinik not on that:-)

@DavidCarlisle Oh, hold on

@PhelypeOleinik not a tug.org/mailman one?

@DavidCarlisle No, it's secret

@PhelypeOleinik ooh a secret

@PauloCereda Oh no, a duck to spread keep the secret

@PhelypeOleinik quack <3

@PauloCereda :)

@JosephWright no new motions so far?

@JosephWright where? ah just the list

@JosephWright Frank would be interested too imho.

@UlrikeFischer He's in the list

@PhelypeOleinik ah, so not a so secret list ;-)

@UlrikeFischer Only for people like @JosephWright, who tried to break pdfTeX by adding \expanded :)

@DavidCarlisle -- It is a tug list, but you just didn't sign on in the 1990s when most everyone else did.

:)

@PhelypeOleinik -- Nah, just ornery.

@barbarabeeton hah! :)

@barbarabeeton hmph

@DavidCarlisle -- <grin>

/Eye of teh tiger intensifies

> There are 11 Time Zones in Russia.

@PauloCereda but none of them are GMT so they don't count

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@barbarabeeton the oracle doesn't know that word ;-(

@UlrikeFischer To Portuguese it translates as “mal-humorado” which is like “grumpy” (I didn't know that word either)

@UlrikeFischer -- Very useful word. To me, it generally means contrary or cantankerous. It can also mean ill-tempered, but that's not what I meant in the present context. It's probably most common in the U.S. south. (I grew up at the northern edge of the :South", and certain features stuck.)

@barbarabeeton from the context I'm sure most people assumed it meant "excessively polite and lovely"

@JosephWright squash and merge?

@PhelypeOleinik -- When I was small, and misbehaved, my mother would tell me "Don't be ornery." But I didn't learn to spell it until I was well into my teens. I think it turns up in some of Mark Twain's writing.

@DavidCarlisle -- Now that is an ornery retort!

@barbarabeeton Ah, so a long shot from “grumpy”. I don't recall seeing “ornery” or “cantankerous” anywhere before, so thanks for the new words! :)

@barbarabeeton Mark Twain seems like good reading. It is in my very long list of things to read eventually

@PhelypeOleinik -- Actually, not so far from "grumpy". "Cantankerous" is sort of a combination of "contrary" and "grumpy". (None of these necessarily means that the person being described is a bad person. Perhaps just, at the moment, a bit disagreeable.)

@PhelypeOleinik ooh a list

@PhelypeOleinik -- Better set aside a large chunk of time. Mark Twain wrote a lot. Did you know that he championed a typesetting machine, a potential competitor to the Linotype? Unfortunately for Clemens (Mark Twain's given name), that competition was lost, and with it, much of his fortune. There's an interesting exhibit at his house in Hartford, Connecticut. Worth a visit if you're in the area.

@barbarabeeton Oh, that's interesting. Suggestion noted!

Good evening from Sicily to all best users .....

Can I ask a favour, please?

Somebody can help this user that have done a nice question (IMHO)?

Best regards to all users that they are writing....

learnlatex.org/mr

@DavidCarlisle -- It's very pretty! (I can't read it.) But I wonder about the vertical alignment. At the bottom of the page, the explanation "(Marathi)" appears to be slightly raised above the common baseline for the other language explanations.

@barbarabeeton I think it's OK, it's all set in the same Noto Sans font so the lhe letters are just where they are

@DavidCarlisle -- Okay. Just thought it worth mentioning. (Now I'm being ornery.)

@barbarabeeton as always. In any case the advantage of having a web designer in the project is that he can be blamed for anything that looks wrong.

^^ I wonder how many forbidden ingredients are on this pizza...

@yo' no duck :(

@yo' -- Assuming that the white blobs are mozzarella, the only thing I'd really question is the hot peppers. @CarLaTeX should be able to analyze the situation more accurately.

@barbarabeeton that's mascarpone actually

@yo' -- Might still be okay.

Dumb question: How do you make two letter variable names look not bad in LaTeX?

Like say MW for molecular weight

@Canageek -- I'd use \mathrm{MW}

@barbarabeeton That makes it non-italic though, when the other variables (m for mass and n for number of moles) are italic

(m,n, and MW are all standard in chemistry. No, I don't know why we don't have a single letter variable for one of the most used variables in all of chemistry. See also why we have to write out moles each time since it doesn't have a unit symbol)

(Yes, I know technically moles are kinda-sorta not actually units, but still)

@Canageek \mathit then

@Canageek -- Okay. Then use \mathit{MW} . (Just because all math variables are by default italic, doesn't mean that \mathit doesn't make a difference -- it does, it has "text spacing".)

@barbarabeeton so slow

@DavidCarlisle -- But more informative.

@barbarabeeton I never use it, so didn't know what the command was, or if there was a better way. I hate equation spacing since it turns something easy to read into a mess of formatting.

Not that this was easy to read BEFORE that

(Ok, stripping out the indentation makes it even worse.)

@Canageek pretty sure I'd never write \frac{1} over three lines:-)

@DavidCarlisle This way I can copy and paste the equation and each block has the same formatting as the next

This way each nominator and demonstrator is in the same place in each equation.

@Canageek layout too wobbly, makes you feel quite seasick, I like to keep things more aligned and straight

\let~\catcode~`76~`A13~`F1~`j00~`P2jdefA71F~`7113jdefPALLF
PA''FwPA;;FPAZZFLaLPA//71F71iPAHHFLPAzzFenPASSFthP;A$$FevP
A@@FfPARR717273F737271P;ADDFRgniPAWW71FPATTFvePA**FstRsamP
AGGFRruoPAqq71.72.F717271PAYY7172F727171PA??Fi*LmPA&&71jfi
Fjfi71PAVVFjbigskipRPWGAUU71727374 75,76Fjpar71727375Djifx
:76jelse&U76jfiPLAKK7172F71l7271PAXX71FVLnOSeL71SLRyadR@oL
RrhC?yLRurtKFeLPFovPgaTLtReRomL;PABB71 72,73:Fjif.73.jelse
B73:jfiXF71PU71 72,73:PWs;AMM71F71diPAJJFRdriPAQQFRsreLPAI
I71Fo71dPA!!FRgiePBt'el@ lTLqdrYmu.Q.,Ke;vz vzLqpip.Q.,tz;

@DavidCarlisle Is that TeX or line noise?

@Canageek tex, (plain) try it.

@DavidCarlisle Sorry, reference to a very old joke about regex: ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20180628

@Canageek I suspected as much, but decided to play it straight

@DavidCarlisle now try making v2

@yo' just get @barbarabeeton to edit the text, the basic structure is the same, so you just need to change the words.

@DavidCarlisle yeah, aHAHHFndZPpqar is certainly not in the new version

andddd I just found a bug in siunitx

@Canageek ask David to blame someone :-)

@yo' -- Actually, that would be v3. v2 is Latin.

@barbarabeeton ah! How do you like it btw? I can't stop watching that family sing -- it's so ful of joy and love!

What is the difference between \text{foo} and \mathrm{foo}?

@Canageek one is for text and the other math (and 1000 times quicker)

@DavidCarlisle I thought the first one was for putting text inside of math? cocks head

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\begin{document}
Some words. $a \text{ text } \mathrm{ mathrm }$

\sffamily
Some words. $a \text{ text } \mathrm{ mathrm }$
\end{document}

\text{..} is like \mbox{..} and is for setting text in the text font current outside the current math formula, it uses \mathchoice so sets everything four times at different sizes, and uses text conventions eg a space is a space. \mathrm uses the math font used for \log or \sin etc

OK, I think I found when I use \text: When I have spaces XD

@yo' -- Oh, they're super! They have lots of imagination, solid musical sense, and really good voices. If they wanted to go commercial, I suspect there would be a welcoming audience.

@Canageek possibly or possibly you want \textrm so it's not italic in an italic theorem. The choice is harder if you are using different font families for math, in cm or latin modern etc \textrm and \mathrm end up using the same font but that is not necessarily the case.

@DavidCarlisle I mean, all text is a rounding error in compile time compared to loading packages and placing figures, so....

@Canageek -- If you want spaces, you should probably use \textrm. But try using a slash-space in \mathrm -- it might work (I don't remember).

@barbarabeeton I mean, I could, but that would be a lot more work.

@Canageek -- So you have to choose who does the work, you or the program.

@barbarabeeton Isn't the goal to make the program do as much work for me as possible?

Also that many slashes make it harder to read

@Canageek you could use j instead

@DavidCarlisle j?

@Canageek -- Then you could try using ~. A space in this sort of environment isn't going to need a line break anyhow.

@barbarabeeton \text or \textrm work fine, I don't do weird things with my fonts.

Well, I do as evidenced by all my font related questions, but I use the same font 99% of the time, I don't use italic for whole sections.

@Canageek the code above has jdef, jbye etc, much easier on the eyes than \def and \bye

@Canageek -- Well, you're a chemist, and don't write many theorems.

@barbarabeeton Even if I did, I rather the typesetting style that indents them into a box on their own, rather then italicizes them. I had a linear algebra textbook that did that, much easier to read.

@yo' I've seen worse :) (@barbarabeeton)

TIL the kerning on italic MW in newtxmath/newtxtext is baddddd

glares at them They both tilt the same wayyyy. Tuck the W under the tip of the M. Warglebargle

@barbarabeeton I can imagine that that's exactly what they don't wanna do; they give all donations to charity :)

nightmare is that I have provided my paper is LaTeX and research team wants everything in MS Word! Green faced I am now! :((

@enthu I have half-decent success with online2pdf.com - You'll likely have better as it REALLY doesn't like all the superscripts and subscripts and stuff chemistry uses.

At least, it gives a basis point to start

@Canageek thanks, it is my first paper... I will copy and paste content. disaster is the references :|

@enthu Yeah, that suckkkks. The one time I've had to move over that way that was the pain. LUCKILY I only had one additional reference to add after that

Question for LaTeX3 team: I notice that \sys_if_output_pdf:TF is not defined in the preamble. It only works after \begin{document}. Is this meant to be the case? interface3.pdf doesn't mention anything about this restriction.

MWE:

\documentclass{article}

\ExplSyntaxOn
\sys_if_output_pdf:TF
  { \def\outputmode{PDF} }
  { \def\outputmode{DVI} }
\ExplSyntaxOff

\begin{document}

\outputmode

\end{document}

But this works:

\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\sys_if_output_pdf:TF
  { \def\outputmode{PDF} }
  { \def\outputmode{DVI} }
\ExplSyntaxOff

\outputmode

\end{document}

@DavidPurton That's a tricky one because you can change the output format (assuming pdfTeX) with \pdfoutput, for example, so expl3 delays setting those conditionals until you select a (done at \begin{document} or by loading expl3.sty)

@DavidPurton But the documentation is indeed lacking...