1:44 AM
Hi, has someone of you ever tried latexdraw.com/learn-tikz? If yes, is the quality of the material good (enough)?

5 hours later…
6:38 AM
Miktex 2.9, texmaker, sublime text, R, Rstudio were installed in WIndows 10. I have removed Miktex 2.9 now. Before installing the latest version of Miktex, do I need to remove these editor softwares too?
I faced trouble in updating and uninstalling miktex 2.9. Now I am feeling afraid about these editors too. That's why I need advice before installing again.

2 hours later…
8:43 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh
> Chrome 88 Released, Removing Adobe Flash -- and FTP
Mind the FTP part...

9:39 AM

10:00 AM
@PauloCereda I like the "If a pizza has thickness $a$ and radius $z$, then its volume is $\pi z z a$".
5

@Rmano ooh

@PauloCereda :(
@PauloCereda Paywall

@JosephWright sorry
@JosephWright I found it interesting because it offers a summary for those who did not follow... :(

10:32 AM
@DavidCarlisle quack, have a good Sunday <3

@PauloCereda Breakfast, snow...

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@raf do you really have to uninstall to update miktex? That sounds odd, can't you just update within your existing miktex console? (I have never used miktex so just asking)

Learn Latin with Lego: legonium.com/clc-9-pastor-et-leo/uswy1gfgvjjrpzw4ff11pinj0hxspm (although that's clearly Playmobil)

@JosephWright oh my

@PauloCereda More or less as expected ...

11:06 AM
@PauloCereda Well, if you can't tell the difference between Lego and Playmobil I'm not very inclined to trust their knowledgability :p

@PauloCereda they were the same thing until the great schism in 5AD when playmobile rejected the authority of Denmark

@DavidCarlisle :)

11:44 AM
@DavidCarlisle yes, yesterday I thought that too. I thought all the packages and miktex itself would be updated. Somehow I wasn't successful to do so. So, I end up with doing fresh install and texmaker today.

@raf You should better have spent an half an hour to make a sensible example, that I could have tested. Now you spent hours to reinstall (and perhaps the problem won't be gone after it).

12:09 PM
@JosephWright something is wrong with the \clist_sort:NN implementation in my PR. When I run the code from the (now added) tests, everything works well for the code without \expanded, but the second code variant shows no output in \TESTEXP (whereas when I copy the code into another document and use \message everything seems to work :( )

@Skillmon Oh dear :(
@Skillmon Make it into a draft? Then 'reactivate' later

@Skillmon Cool

12:38 PM
@JosephWright I think it's a stupid typo done by auto-complete \clist_if_exist:NTF instead of \clist_if_empty:NTF...

1:09 PM
@DavidCarlisle An understandable decision, their new location has much better bratwurst than Denmark

Question to the Lua Experts, how do you determine the operating system under which l3build is running? at the moment I have used local my_os = package.config:sub(1,1) and then compare /, but I don't know if that's right.

3
^^^ That's how duck BBQ is supposed to work

@PabloGonzálezL That's probably the best you can get, which might cover most of the cases.
@JosephWright OH MY
@samcarter_says_quack ooh

1:24 PM
@PauloCereda Cool, I thought about asking live on Git, but the l3build discussion está en llamas :)

@PabloGonzálezL Depending on the level of detail required, look at os.type (This will be windows, msdos or unix) or os.name (Which additionally allows to differentiate different unix like systems). If you need even more, os.uname has a table containing more information.

@MarcelKrüger that's cheating, you are using texlua. :)

@MarcelKrüger I checked the l3build code and there was a function for that, but I couldnt get it to run correctly, I just need it in docinit_hook().

@PauloCereda He did specify l3build, so I think it's forgivable :)

Dec 28 '20 at 14:19, by David Carlisle
Apr 29 at 14:20, by David Carlisle
Nov 8 '17 at 21:24, by David Carlisle
Sep 5 '16 at 15:54, by Paulo Cereda
8 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda
8 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda
8 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda
49 mins ago, by egreg
Aug 2 at 12:55, by egreg
Jun 12 at 17:55, by David Carlisle
@egreg excuses excuses

1:32 PM
@PabloGonzálezL What is there a function for? And how did it fail?

@MarcelKrüger <3

@MarcelKrüger Jejej, it's just for something specific I wanted it for this (github.com/pablgonz/ltximg/blob/…).
For some reason when I tried in windows with os_type it didn't work well, maybe I had something wrong written :(

@PabloGonzálezL I would use os.type == 'unix' in this case, but your current version should work too.

@MarcelKrüger wait for David to throw Cygwin at the table. :)

@PabloGonzálezL The name os_type is only defined locally by l3build, in your own file you have to use the global os.type or define os_type yourself.
@PauloCereda Cygwin would be detected as UNIX-like with both tests, wouldn't it?

1:38 PM
@MarcelKrüger I am afraid to investigate. :)

@MarcelKrüger That's the reason why it didn't work for me :) thanks a lot for the explanation...there should be a "documented" utility like this...my case is very specific, but l3build is multiplatform :)

@PauloCereda At least for os.name Cygwin has an independent value which is associated with os.type = "unix".

@MarcelKrüger ooh :)

@PabloGonzálezL All non TeX-specific parts of LuaTeX are available with texlua which is used by l3build, so you can use the LuaTeX documentation. This kind of stuff is documented under "4.2.6 Extra os library functions"

@MarcelKrüger Good tip, it would have taken less time if I had read the documentation :(

1:56 PM
@PauloCereda don't forget cygwin
Mar 26 '12 at 19:37, by David Carlisle
@Canageek moral of the story: never read the documentation, bad things happen

@DavidCarlisle This is an absolute truth :p

2:19 PM
@PabloGonzálezL As Lua provides os.name, I dropped some earlier custom code

@JosephWright I am not very close to writing script in Lua to be precise, the little I have learned has been thanks to l3build :) ...so I get lost a lot and normally I go by the examples and documentation and just for this case the copy and paste of the l3build code did not work for me for the reasons mentioned by Marcel :(

@PabloGonzálezL Ah: once you go beyond the table of variables, you do need a bit of Lua experience (see the very live discussions at github.com/latex3/l3build/discussions)

@JosephWright Yes, I've been following it closely...that's a good example of using the space "discussions" :)

@JosephWright skype :-)

@PabloGonzálezL :)

2:34 PM
@JosephWright EN LLAMAS literally :D

2
Is it true that in Peru there is a statue with a literal llama on top of it because the artist misunderstood llama (a flame) as llama (the animal)?

@PabloGonzálezL OMG IT IS

@PauloCereda Only in Perú :)

@PauloCereda OMG

2:38 PM
@PabloGonzálezL shhh @JairoA.delRio can hear you. :)

@PauloCereda Opsss

@JosephWright The rumours were true!

@PauloCereda This is what happens if you don't use English.

@DavidCarlisle what else could possibly go wrong?

3
@DavidCarlisle ^^ that happens when people write in german ;-)

2:56 PM
@PauloCereda LMAO
That's not unusual, tho
@PauloCereda The Coat of Arms of National University of San Marcos has a lime, possibly because "lima" (lime) and "Lima" (the city) are homophones

@JairoA.delRio ooh!

@PauloCereda Yeah, only in Perú. We're an absurd country

@JairoA.delRio don't worry, Brazil has some idiosyncrasies as well. :)

@PauloCereda I'd like to see something more absurd than the llama thing (and less than Bolsonaro...) about Brazil

@JairoA.delRio ouch, our politicians are deplorable...

3:11 PM
@JairoA.delRio well Brazil has software engineers who believe they are cricket playing ducks.

@DavidCarlisle Woah, that's harsh :D

Jun 29 '17 at 16:15, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are not mean :)

@PauloCereda Same feeling here. And this year we have elections. We're doomed.

@DavidCarlisle quack <3
2
@JairoA.delRio ouch. :(

@PauloCereda Ah, whatever. I'll believe I'm the happy cat drinking soju in my avatar. It cannot be worse.

3:15 PM
@JairoA.delRio ooh :)
@JairoA.delRio, @PabloGonzálezL: When I visited the Santa Maria de Montserrat abbey in Catalonia, a friend of mine brought us a beverage named... horchata, I guess. Do you have anything similar in Peru or Chile?

@PauloCereda Isn't horchata a Mexican thing?

@JairoA.delRio I really don't know. The funny part is that this friend who brought us the beverage was a Peruvian living in Barcelona. :)

@PauloCereda Could you describe it? If it's sweet, no, but we have arroz con leche, which shares some ingredients, as rice, milk and vanilla. Not really close, tho

@JairoA.delRio it was sweet, and that's probablt the only thing I remember. :) It was very tasty.

@PauloCereda Oh. Definitively not a Peruvian thing, not a typical one.

3:26 PM
@JairoA.delRio A lab colleague said I should try ceviche. :)

@UlrikeFischer -- Reminds me of a TeX meeting in France that had (usually very good) simultaneous translation. I can understand French pretty well on subjects I know, but was listening anyway. So when the translator translated "deux colonnes" as "two doves" ("deux colombes"), I burst out laughing. Nobody around me had any idea what was going on.

@barbarabeeton ooh \usepackage{multipigeon} :)

@PauloCereda Ceviche is love, ceviche is life.

@barbarabeeton ;-).

@JairoA.delRio will try someday. :)

3:30 PM
@PauloCereda You should, certainly. But remember to try the Peruvian one! There's ceviche in other countries, btw

@JairoA.delRio ooh

@PauloCereda Not in Chile, as far as I know at least

@PabloGonzálezL oh :)

@JairoA.delRio The Peruvian is the best :)

@PabloGonzálezL Oh <3

3:33 PM
@PauloCereda horchata is a beverage made with chufas: es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horchata_de_chufa

@PauloCereda -- You should! Think of ceviche as lime-cooked sashimi. Yum!

@Rmano ooh!
@barbarabeeton ooh sounds very yummy!

@MarcelKrüger, @DavidCarlisle Oooh, DVI extention for dvipdfmx

@JairoA.delRio -- How can one tell the difference? What is the difference?

@PauloCereda I don't fancy it really, it's too sweet and ...dense for my taste.

3:34 PM
@barbarabeeton That's an unusually accurate picture of ceviche for those who already know sashimi.

@JosephWright ?

@Rmano I actually enjoyed, probably because I really like sweet beverages. :)
@DavidCarlisle duck happiness, see ooh

> I submitted the change required for supporting the extended
fnt_def of dviluatex.
Although It is not tested well, it is already available in dvipdfmx
version 20210116 and later.

Thanks,
Shunsaku Hirata
@D ^^^

@barbarabeeton Oh, I've once read about Mexican ceviche and I was baffled. I was to cry when I realized they put avocado and tomato on it.

@barbarabeeton yum, ceviche is really good.

3:36 PM
@JosephWright finally a usable dviluatex?

@DavidCarlisle Looks that way

And I love cilantro too, so it's quite heavenly for me. I like @barbarabeeton definition... ;-) sashimi with lima and cilantro.

@barbarabeeton You don't need to understand Spanish. Pictures are enough
@barbarabeeton It seems Peruvian ceviche is the only ceviche widely known outside Latin America. Yay (?)

@JairoA.delRio -- Okay, I'll remember that. But I also like avocado (not just guacamole) and tomatos (preferably fresh from a summer garden).

@JairoA.delRio we had a Chilean priest who was in complete shock when he saw mums preparing avocado milkshake for their kids. :)

3:40 PM
@JairoA.delRio -- Except there are quite a few (some very good) Mexican restaurants in Rhode Island.

@barbarabeeton Oh, yeah, they are delicious

@PauloCereda It's shocking for us too. Sane people don't do avocado milkshakes.

@JairoA.delRio Thought so. :)

@PauloCereda Well, avocados are fruits, but damn. I saw a news program when avocado was discussed and it was mentioned than Brazilian treat it as another fruit. We rather use them in salads and prefer them salty than sweet.

3:45 PM
@JairoA.delRio That's accurate, although there's guacamole around here. :)

@JairoA.delRio -- My father, after he retired, lived in southern California, and his next-door neighbor had a flourishing avocado tree. When my sister and I visited, the neighbor invited us to partake of the ripe fruit. Yum! Heaven! (I smuggled a few home to Rhode Island. Quite frowned on, but much enjoyed.)
2

@PauloCereda Cool. Tbh I don't know about Mexican food. Apart from ours, I've eaten Korean and Japanese food. Very tasty and very spicy in occasions.

@JairoA.delRio ooh nice! I

@PauloCereda that's why they're called "aguacates" here ;-)

Damn those aguacates!

3:50 PM
@PauloCereda LOL

:)
@Rmano We call them abacates. :)

@PauloCereda @Rmano we call them "paltas" instead.

@JairoA.delRio Ah yes, palta! My supervisor used to joke with pauta da reunião (meeting agenda) with palta da reunião (meeting avocado). :)

@JairoA.delRio when they're ripe they're wonderful --- they're the real "vegetal butter" thing! A salmon and tuna tartar with it and a bit of sweet onion is paradise.

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle @MarcelKrüger and it works, I just tested with the win32 binaries. One only has to remember to pass the dvipdfmx backend to expl3.

3:54 PM
@UlrikeFischer Phew: glad the backend part works!

@JosephWright damn those pesky users :)

@barbarabeeton @Rmano Vegetal butter. Here we cut a roll in halves and put a piece of avocado in between. A bit of salt and glory. Oh, I'm hungry now.

@JosephWright well the example doesn't really use it, it was more to avoid the dvips header. But when @MarcelKrüger brought up the subject, I made a few tests with the \specials and it looked ok, the right backend files are loaded.
@JosephWright is UnicodeData.txt loaded by pdflatex during format creation?

4:09 PM
@UlrikeFischer No

@UlrikeFischer We don't really have anywhere to save the data
@UlrikeFischer I have been meaning to look again at that: I probably should extend the case changing data (I think most of the cased lanaguages can be stored as macros)

@JosephWright well here is a log where pdflatex.fmt can not be created tex.stackexchange.com/q/580274/2388, and the error says
@JosephWright that is the second time I see this in miktex and I do find it very mysterious.

@UlrikeFischer Oh, I remember
@UlrikeFischer We do open it, just to close it again, so the file lists stay more similar between engines

@JosephWright well the other question was about xelatex and that should load it, but beside this there are similarities.
@JosephWright ah, ok. So it is ok that pdflatex tries to find it, and it remains the question why it isn't found.

4:17 PM
@UlrikeFischer Yup
@UlrikeFischer Like I say, I think now that we will need it: I'm pretty sure I can load the western European and Greek case data dynamically - justa question of having time to adjust the loader

@samcarter_says_quack a duck with a monocle and a top hat: twitter.com/hyxpk/status/1353371995178582018

@UlrikeFischer I'm working on opacity ATM

@JosephWright I'm working on colorlinks -- you can then make them invisible ;-)

@UlrikeFischer :)

@PauloCereda -- Tempted to join them.

4:23 PM
@UlrikeFischer Plus of course l3build discussions!!

@barbarabeeton cappys are lovely!
@JosephWright stop :)

@PauloCereda Hmm ... see skype

@JosephWright is there anything different in the ior_open command (used imho the first time for UnicodeData.txt) to the primitive \input which could explain why miktex fails on some systems?

@UlrikeFischer Well they use \openin not \input

@PauloCereda -- There was a suds disaster like that in the film "Mister Roberts". There it was hilarious.

4:30 PM
@barbarabeeton ooh

@PauloCereda would you call me "mean" if I was thinking that they would raise smoothly the temperature to make stew? (Although well, with hairs and all doesn't seem yummi...)

@Rmano oh no
@Rmano :)

4:45 PM
@UlrikeFischer Except when you try to use HarfBuzz shaping... We should probably fix this, now that DVI output is actually useful.

@MarcelKrüger I didn't try this yet. But yes, we should support it.

5:45 PM
@UlrikeFischer Any thoughts on where opacity 'lives'? I still feel either with color or with draw ...

@JosephWright hm, well you don't apply it only to graphicx and rules but also to text. So draw doesn't sound really right. How would you name the commands if there were in color?

What would be the way to go with TikZ to draw an arrow A ---O--> B, where a "ring" O is attached?
I thought of declaring a node midway through the arrow and then drawing a cricle around it or so

@UlrikeFischer Oh, as l3opacity in either case, so \opacity_select:n, \opacity_fill:n, \opacity_stroke:n

@JosephWright then I didn't get the question. What is the difference between color and draw in this context?

6:00 PM
@UlrikeFischer Ah: I was thinking that a stand alone l3opacity module would be a bit 'thin', and it would make most sense to simply add l3opacity.dtx either in with the color stuff or in with the drawing stuff. I can make an entirely new directory, but it seems very very 'light'
@UlrikeFischer Perhaps if the question doesn't make sense I should just add a new directory in l3experimental then ...

yup, my approach seems promising, so is resolved :)

@ComFreek or a circular node midway with inner sep=0pt

@JosephWright ah, then I would do it to l3color.

@UlrikeFischer Does my plan make sense?

@ComFreek \draw[->] (0,0) node[left]{A} -- node[midway, circle, draw, fill=white, inner sep=0pt, minimum size=6pt]{} ++(3,0) node[right]{B};
(nodes are drawn after the path is used (stroked, filled, whatever))

6:20 PM
@JosephWright I don't see a problem, and I hope that it moves out of experimental at some time anyway.

6:38 PM
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage{tikz-cd}
\usepackage{amsmath}

\begin{document}
$\begin{tikzcd}[ column sep=scriptsize, execute at end picture={ } ] & |[name=myName]|foo \ar[dl]\\ bar \end{tikzcd}$
\end{document}
If I specify a name for a node in tikz-cd, the arrow does't work anymore ("no shape named ...").
@Rmano Thanks for your input. I needed more flexibility though, hence I settled with the approach I outlined. (Only bummer is that I need to introduce names, hmhmh)

@ComFreek probably because you override the default name... (I never used tikzcd so it's a guess). My guess is that it's a kind-of matrix, so if you name all of it you can access nodes with globalname-1-1 or something like that

Yeah, but how can I draw an arrow between custom-named nodes?
tikz-cd-style that is

@ComFreek that, I don't know... :-( sorry

I now settled with not custom-naming :-)

@ComFreek That's tricky. It seems that you can't override the name...
 $\begin{tikzcd}[ remember picture, column sep=scriptsize, execute at end picture={ } ] & foo \ar[dl]\\ bar \end{tikzcd}$
\tikz[overlay, remember picture] \path (tikz@f@1-1-2) -- node[midway]{O} (tikz@f@1-2-1);
But I do not know how much is abusing the inner implementation (Henri would scold me ;-))

6:53 PM
	$\begin{tikzcd}[ column sep=huge, row sep=huge, execute at end picture={ \laxMorphism{(\tikzcdmatrixname-1-1)}{(\tikzcdmatrixname-1-3)}{\TypeEras}{\TypePres} \laxMorphism{(\tikzcdmatrixname-2-1)}{(\tikzcdmatrixname-2-3)}{\TypeEras}{\TypePres} } ] \HardTyped \ar[d,hook] & & \SoftTyped \ar[d,hook]\\ \HardProd & & \SoftProd \end{tikzcd}$
I've got that now
Ignoring my macro names, you can see I reference \tikzcdmatrixname-1-1 in the execute at end picture block.

@ComFreek Ah, better.

1 hour later…
8:11 PM
@PauloCereda ooh, issues.

2 hours later…
9:51 PM
@PauloCereda sorry, I wrote my own image converter in Python :) Results:
(white grid on purpose, using a negative gap-hack to make sure everybody sees this is done via pxpic)

10:33 PM

10:53 PM
On Windows 10 PC with miktex, where can I find the location of latexmk configuration file 'latexmkrc'?

11:06 PM
@Diaa on texlive kpsewhich latexmkrc will show the path, no idea about miktex

@DavidCarlisle the documentation says that on windows it looks at first in C:\latexmk\LatexMk. @Diaa

Mar 26 '12 at 19:37, by David Carlisle
@Canageek moral of the story: never read the documentation, bad things happen

11:39 PM
@UlrikeFischer I don't have this path on my PC

@Diaa Well you could create it. And check the docu for the other places.