TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Plergux

6:17 AM

@barbarabeeton Yay! It's a yeanling! :p

Paulo Cereda

8:04 AM

quack

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda સવારનો નાસ્તો

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Plergux

baa!

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux hi sheep person!

Plergux

8:21 AM

@PauloCereda Hi duck person :D

Paulo Cereda

8:34 AM

@Plergux <3

@yo' ^^

yo'

@PauloCereda haha scouts selling stuff is so American :)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' :D

Plergux

@yo' No scouts selling stuff here. Mostly charities. And Search and Rescue cause they're a voluntary service. :| Like, in Iceland. Go figure :|

Harald Hanche-Olsen

9:05 AM

@Plergux Same thing in Norway. We have Redningsselskapet, formerly known as Norsk selskap til skibbrudne sjømenns redning (NSSSR). I am pretty sure they get som support from the government, though. And they can't afford helicopters! So there is a branch of the air force dedicated to search and rescue as well. They fly Sea King helicopters, mostly from the 1960s I think. It's a scary thought – but I don't think they have lost a single one in all these years.

Paulo Cereda

Mac people, how do you type a unicode code point and get it rendered in MacOS?

Say, u+00df = ß

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda C-8 x 1234

Paulo Cereda

In Linux, I CTRL+Shift + u then type the hex thingy

@DavidCarlisle this might shock you, but I mean outside emacs. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda sorry parse failure

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle that's good about vim, you will never leave anyway. :)

Plergux

9:17 AM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Well, that's the upside to the volunteer thing is that because they're volunteers they're people who care and do this with passion. I admire these people immensely.

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda I simply type on the ß on my keyboard ;-)

Plergux

@UlrikeFischer lol

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ß was probably an unfortunate example. :)

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I didn't know you had a Greek keyboard

Paulo Cereda

I can type ß with ALT GR + S too :)

@DavidCarlisle ooh the beta thingy

Ulrike Fischer

9:20 AM

@PauloCereda but "rendering" can be a problem in a command line, not for the ß which windows manages, but for other chars, depending on the code page used (I can change to unicode, but normally I don't bother), so many stuff can end up as "?" or garbage.

Plergux

@UlrikeFischer I seem to recall my sister being super annoyed in German class in high school because the Eszet had been taken out of the German alphabet and according to the teacher they were just supposed to magically convert all the words they'd learned into "ss" or whatever it was that replaced it. Is that true or did my brain make that up? About the Eszet being taken out, that is.

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer Ah yes, indeed. I think the PowerShell terminal got better support for a wider range of symbols...

Ulrike Fischer

@Plergux no we still use ß. The swiss have taken it out.

@Plergux a number of words have changed with the spelling reform. So you now write dass instead of daß, and müsste instead of müßte, but Grüße is still there.

Paulo Cereda

Okay, found a way... but ughhhh...

@Plergux vv

May 4 '16 at 18:24, by Paulo Cereda

A snake sounds like hissssssssssssssssssssssssssss. A German snake goes hißßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßß. <3

@UlrikeFischer ooh we could get chocolate

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@UlrikeFischer And one of your greatest mathematicians is still Carl Friedrich Gauß, although almost everyone else spells it Gauss.

Paulo Cereda

9:31 AM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Wait, is it with ß?!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Carl Friedrich Gauß

Johann Carl Friedrich Gauß (latinisiert Carolus Fridericus Gauss; * 30. April 1777 in Braunschweig; † 23. Februar 1855 in Göttingen) war ein deutscher Mathematiker, Statistiker, Astronom, Geodät und Physiker. Wegen seiner überragenden wissenschaftlichen Leistungen galt er bereits zu seinen Lebzeiten als Princeps Mathematicorum („Fürst der Mathematiker“; „Erster unter den Mathematikern“). Mit 18 Jahren entwickelte Gauß die Grundlagen der modernen Ausgleichungsrechnung und der mathematischen Statistik (Methode der kleinsten Quadrate), mit der er 1801 die Wiederentdeckung des ersten Asteroiden Ceres…

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen WOW

Ulrike Fischer

@HaraldHanche-Olsen well if you would made a test in Germany I wouldn't make a bet on how the the majority writes him. And I also wouldn't bet on how he wrote his name himself. There is a signature here which shows a long and short s: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Friedrich_Gauß#/media/…

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer Gauzz

Plergux

@UlrikeFischer Ah, ok. Then my brain made it up XD

@UlrikeFischer Ah, that might be it. But why only change some of them?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

9:46 AM

@UlrikeFischer The chat software broke the link, but I see it on the wikipedia page I linked to. That's an amazingly elaborate signature.

Plergux

@PauloCereda :D

Ulrike Fischer

@HaraldHanche-Olsen you can find here handwritten letters: gauss.adw-goe.de/handle/gauss/125

yo'

@DavidCarlisle Gausz

Harald Hanche-Olsen

10:05 AM

@UlrikeFischer It does indeed look like he used the combination long s – short s in his signatures.

AlexG

@HaraldHanche-Olsen As far as I know, ß is the ligature of ſs (not a letter by its own).

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@AlexG Ah, that's interesting. And it makes sense. But the wikipedia page about it indicates it's a ſz ligature. And that, too, makes sense, given the name * eszett*.

@UlrikeFischer I have some copies here of old papers from the Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. They spell it Gauss in the cover page for each paper. I tried looking at the scanned papers, but they always capitalised the surname (or used small caps), so that doesn't reveal much.

Skillmon

@Plergux not so long ago, we added ẞ (uppercase ß), I think we'll keep it :)

Plergux

@Skillmon :D

Skillmon

@Plergux to ease spelling. A "ss" follows a short vocale, while a "ß" follows a long one and "s" usually follows a long vocale while the "s" is voiced.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

10:19 AM

Maybe I'll start writing it Gauſs, just to confuse everybody. ;-)

2

Skillmon

@Plergux in "Gruß" the "u" is long, but the "ß" isn't voiced, whereas in "dass" the "a" is short. So we changed it to reflect that.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen actually, the "ß" is a ligature of "ſs" (or "ſz" depending on the font), so using Gauß is (more or less) equal to Gauſs.

Ulrike Fischer

@Plergux to make spelling a bit more consistent. Previously it was grüßen-grüßte, but müssen-müßte. And so they changed it that ss is always used after a short vocal.

Joseph Wright

@Skillmon All sounds like the cart-leading-the-horse to me, but then I'm a native English speaker so view spelling as ... basically arbitrary

Skillmon

@JosephWright English spelling isn't arbitrary. It is very regular. There are just 100+ concurrent regularities.

AlexG

@HaraldHanche-Olsen There is a long-lasting controversy about this (among typographers and linguists). By far not being a specialist in this field I tend to advocate the ſs-theory, i. e. ſs=ß just denoting a sharp s. Because I don't know of any German word with ß that would have been spoken like s-z at any time of its existence.

Ulrike Fischer

10:24 AM

@Plergux but the daß to dass change, means that we now have "das" and "dass" and that makes typing a bit more difficult as you don't think about the right letter but if you need another s or should stop. I make more errors here now when I type fast.

yo'

@Skillmon huh, that statement is at least problematic :) It would be like saying that ö is a ligature of "oe".

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@AlexG Looking closer at the origin section of that wikipedia page, I see that there is indeed room for both interpretations.

Plergux

@skill

Harald Hanche-Olsen

In Norwegian, “dass” is another word for toilet (especially the outhouse kind), considered vulgar by some. We also had a famous priest and poet named Petter Dass, to the great delight of many school children.

Skillmon

@yo' no, that's not like saying that. The origin of the "ß" is the ligature of "ſs" (or "ſz"), unlike the origin of ö vs oe.

Plergux

10:32 AM

@Skillmon @UlrikeFischer this sounds a little bit like when we took out the z which stood for certain consonant clusters, e.g. íslenzkur instead of íslendskur. I have "reverted" to this spelling to annoy teachers :p But many of the older generation still use the z cause that's what they learned.

yo'

@Skillmon and that's why it's written oe in some Germanic languages and historically "e" was used above the letter rather than the two dots...

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@Skillmon The wikipedia entry on ö seems a bit confusing: At first, it seems to agree with you, but then it says “The Dano-Norwegian ø is, like the German ö, a development of oe and can be compared with the French œ.”

Maybe I should just stick to mathematics. It's so much simpler.

yo'

@Skillmon see Nueremberg at the bottom of upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/… and also the answer at

14

A: Evolution of the digraph “ae” in the German language during the centuries

All images are hyperlinks to their sources. As with all historical typographic and linguistic developments, it’s much more easy to say what happened than why it happened. The following is a brief overview over the history, which I try to back up where I can: In medieval calligraphy and typsett...

@Plergux Yeah, that's pretty similar to us. No cookies, mostly charity souvenirs.

now i'm sorry, but it's organ time before I start working...

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@yo' I always thought the proper spelling was Nürnberg. But apparently, it wasn't always so.

yo'

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Ah given it's translated as Norimberk to Czech, I consider Nüremberg quite proper :-)

Skillmon

10:41 AM

@yo' todays German disagrees with that :)

Paulo Cereda

As long as Schokoladenkuchen remains untouched, I am fine with the language thingy

2

yo'

@Skillmon well, given you're too lazy to write "ň" in Plzeň, I'm not sure your opinion on spelling counts :)

Plergux

@yo' No cookies here either :| Not that I'd eat them anyway these days :p

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux oh no

Plergux

@PauloCereda As long as you don't spell it Chockoladenküchen you'll be fine. :p

Paulo Cereda

10:49 AM

@Plergux phew, German ist sehr... komplicated. :)

Skillmon

@yo' we go even a step further, and add an "i" to its name in German...

@PauloCereda "kompliziert"

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@Plergux Another Icelandic favorite of mine: súkkulaðiverksmiðju.

I imagine blacksmiths at the forge, beating chocolate bars into shape.

2

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon oopsie

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh my

Skillmon

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Schokoladenwerksschmiede (or Schokoladenwerkschmiede?)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I have been looking at this question tex.stackexchange.com/q/573048/2388. I will probably never understand how luatex handles \mathcode here, but do you think changing the test for "8000 to equality would be ok:

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{url}

\makeatletter

%old definition: <"8000
\def\set@mathnolig#1{\ifnum\mathcode`#1<32768
   \begingroup\lccode`\~`#1\lowercase{\endgroup
     \edef~}{\mathchar\number\mathcode`#1\sb{\/}}%
   \mathcode`#1=32768 \fi}

%new = "8000 for lualatex:
\def\set@mathnolig#1{%
   \ifnum\mathcode`#1=32768
   \else
   \begingroup\lccode`\~`#1\lowercase{\endgroup
     \edef~}{\mathchar\number\mathcode`#1\sb{\/}}%
   \mathcode`#1=32768 \fi}

\makeatletter
\begin{document}

Skillmon

10:52 AM

3 mins ago, by Paulo Cereda

@Plergux phew, German ist sehr... komplicated. :)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Oh no! Actual latex taking over the chat! Quick, hide!

2

Skillmon

@HaraldHanche-Olsen \end{LaTeXinChat}

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh no

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Basically, 'don't use \mathcode' is the position, isn't it?

Plergux

@HaraldHanche-Olsen :D Yes, that's where the dwarves work mostly these days :p

@HaraldHanche-Olsen \phantom{plergux}

Paulo Cereda

10:54 AM

@Plergux LOL

Where's the "dies in nerd" quote? :)

Skillmon

@Plergux \makebox[0pt]{\smash{\phantom{plergux}}} (now he isn't detectable by the air he's displacing.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@Skillmon she, I thought?

David Carlisle

@HaraldHanche-Olsen it's a \phantom s don't you know

Skillmon

@HaraldHanche-Olsen maybe you're right. But it's the internet. The place where men are men, women are men, and kids are FBI agents.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@Skillmon on the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

Plergux

11:01 AM

@Skillmon :D

Ulrike Fischer

@Skillmon then say "they" if you don't know. I don't like it if someone writes "he" to me.

Skillmon

@UlrikeFischer you're right, should've done that (I still find the singular "they" as neutral pronoun confusing from time to time).

@Plergux sorry, if you're a "she" and that "he" was in any way uncomfortable or unpleasant.

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright it would help, but rewriting the whole url sty to move into unicode isn't so easy ;-)

Plergux

@Skillmon Well, in this case you're lucky in that people have been mistaking me for "he" since I was a kid so I'm used to it now. :p And quite frankly, I don't care anyway. People can't be blamed for making errors based on cognitive assimilation of insufficient information. :p

3

Phelype Oleinik

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Though I suspect there are some using LaTeX: tex.stackexchange.com/users/196228/nobody-knows-i-am-a-dog

Nov 15 at 20:10, by Plergux

\dies of nerd :p

Paulo Cereda

11:10 AM

@PhelypeOleinik obrigado :)

Oct 4 '11 at 16:20, by Alan Munn

@Jin Woof.

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda Disponha, meu caro :)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@UlrikeFischer In Fredrik Pohl's sci-fi novel The Years of the City, they have done away with gendered pronouns altogether and just use “e” for he or she, “er” for his or her, and “um” for him or her. I like this solution better than “they”, frankly. But people not used to it will no doubt find it just as confusing.

Skillmon

@HaraldHanche-Olsen "er" and "um" sound like these "I'm just thinking and have to make a noise while doing so" sounds :)

Phelype Oleinik

@Skillmon That's precisely how I speak english :)

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

11:37 AM

45 mins ago, by Skillmon

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Schokoladenwerksschmiede (or Schokoladenwerkschmiede?)

Plergux

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Does that apply to "it" as well? Or is it because English speakers are used to have "real" pronouns for humans only and get bent out of shape when someone suggests that they have a perfectly good neutral pronoun they can use? :p Because for someone who is used to using "he"/"she"/"it" for humans and objects interchangeably this whole "gender neutral" pronoun thing seems a little silly. I mean, obviously chairs and tables have no gender but they still have one (chair - he, table -it).

Harald Hanche-Olsen

12:14 PM

@Plergux Not as far as I remember. After all, objects don't have genders in English, so there would be no need for reform there. I suspect they had them sometime in the past, perhaps. In Norwegian, as you may know, we have two written forms – bokmål and nynorsk. Gendered pronouns for objects differ in the two: Den/det in bokmål, han/ho/det in nynorsk.

Plergux

@HaraldHanche-Olsen :)

yo'

@Plergux "People can't be blamed for making errors based on cognitive assimilation of insufficient information." -- that's a nicely written summarization of my opinion on some modern gender issues.

Plergux

@yo' Thank you. :) I'll have to write that down somewhere myself. :p

Skillmon

12:34 PM

@yo' "issue"?

yo'

@Skillmon well, I see it as an issue if I can offend someone who looks and behaves like one gender by assuming they are of that gender. (But I don't really wanna get deep into this discussion while I'm at work I think)

campa

@JosephWright Erm, sorry to bother, but why did you remove the wiki from tex.stackexchange.com/a/573112/82917?

Joseph Wright

@campa It's not really suitable for a wiki answer: seems quite clear standard Q&A to me

campa

@JosephWright Why not? I did not provide the answer; I just gave a little explanation, which can be surely improved. But I guess I just misunderstood the point of CW after all. Sorry.

Plergux

12:51 PM

@Skillmon My main "issue" with many people is that they think that being loud is going to help sway the great majority that just goes on with their daily lives when what is needed is repeated gentle nudging in the right direction. And I say this as someone who presents as a gender opposite to biological sex.

Paulo Cereda

2:05 PM

Albatross lives! vimeo.com/485956715

8

Plergux

2:27 PM

@PauloCereda :D

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux <3

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Albatross! (Monty Python, Live at the Hollywood Bowl)

►

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen YES

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda So is the plan to get it into the TL distribution? If not how does one build the thing?

yo'

@PauloCereda This is the first one I'm seriously sorry for not being available in Overleaf due to Java :-( This is so great!

Paulo Cereda

2:40 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, that's the plan. Once we reviewed a couple of things, the binaries will be also available in the repository.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda Okay, that's good. Until now I didn't even realise that there is a programming language called kotlin. ;D I'll wait for the binaries to appear.

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen actually, our CI generates binaries on each new commit. It just happens I did something wrong. Will fix ASAP.

@yo' We might take a look on converting into binary.

yo'

@PauloCereda you could take a look on rewriting in Python :-) It would support your love for animals :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda because it can float around for days without landing?

@yo' or Lua

Paulo Cereda

@yo' :)

@DavidCarlisle oh

David Carlisle

2:52 PM

@PauloCereda I daren't ask where it will look for fonts using a windows native java called from cygwin:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle mummy please make the longtable man go away :)

5

@HaraldHanche-Olsen gitlab.com/islandoftex/albatross

Click the arrow down, this list will appear

Click build:linux:jdk8

A zip file will be downloaded... simply extract and get the albatross-jdk8-with-deps-1.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar file.

Then run

$ java -jar albatross-jdk8-with-deps-1.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar

The repo has a README with the options.

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda I do find it quite impressing that you never make typos in such demos. I would have written at least once albatrosss or ablatross

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer I cut then in edition. :D

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer :)

David Carlisle

$ java -jar bin/albatross-jdk8-with-deps-1.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar 0x1f986
__ __ __
.---.-.| | |--.---.-.| |_.----.-----.-----.-----.
| _ || | _ | _ || _| _| _ |__ --|__ --|
|___._||__|_____|___._||____|__| |_____|_____|_____|

Unicode code point 1F986 mapping to ?
Ŀ
Font name
Ĵ
Noto Color Emoji
Ĵ
Segoe UI Emoji
Ĵ
Segoe UI Symbol
Ĵ
Twemoji Mozilla

@PauloCereda ^

Paulo Cereda

3:02 PM

@DavidCarlisle it worked, all things considered. :)

So you have 4 fonts supporting the duck emoji. :)

David Carlisle

oh -a a16 gives yellow headings with the font names printed white on white :-)

Paulo Cereda

ooh

@DavidCarlisle What do you get with -a tc ? :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda 256 works (although I prefer black to faint pastel purple)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh :D

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda, @DavidCarlisle I only have 'last resort' :(

Paulo Cereda

3:06 PM

@JosephWright The Mac way. :(

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda tc looks like the same colours as 256 except one malformed escape code after "Font Name":

 Font name
;209;208m

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Are you using less ? If so, try less -r

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda no pipe at all, just going straight to an xterm

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh :)

(must dash, will be back in an hour or so... have fun, friends!)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda 2013 or 2014 ?

Ulrike Fischer

3:29 PM

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright does one of you know how .currentstrokeconstantalpha is meant to be used (ghostscript.com/doc/current/Language.htm#Transparency)? I can set text transparency on one page with values, but I don't get how I should put values on some stack.

\documentclass[12pt]{article}
\begin{document}
dvips?
\ExplSyntaxOn
xxxx
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {0.1~.setstrokeconstantalpha}
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {0.1~.setfillconstantalpha}
zzzz
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {0.4~.setstrokeconstantalpha}
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {0.4~.setfillconstantalpha}
blub
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {1~.setstrokeconstantalpha}
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {1~.setfillconstantalpha}
xxxx
\ExplSyntaxOff
\end{document}

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda Running on the JVM, I suppose it would run on macos too – but still, the naming indicates it is linux specific. Perhaps because of where it looks for the fonts?

@UlrikeFischer or albatroß

TeXnician

@HaraldHanche-Olsen It's built on a Linux runner but the JAR is platform-independent ;)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Listing fonts is not something @PauloCereda bothered to implement. He just runs fc-list which is in TL (see gitlab.com/islandoftex/albatross/-/blob/master/src/main/kotlin/…).

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@TeXnician Oh, I see.

@TeXnician Oh, there's a zip inside the zip. How exciting.

Skillmon

3:45 PM

5 hours ago, by Harald Hanche-Olsen

Oh no! Actual latex taking over the chat! Quick, hide!

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer well... I know nothing other than I just read, so that puts the value on the stack so you can restore it later with /home/nag/olney/engine/jenkins/workspace/libdoc_development but is it clear when you can restore it?

@TeXnician which is probably why it worked for me as it would have picked up the cygwin fc-list whereas a native java implementation would probably fail to understand the cygwin file paths without help:-)

TeXnician

@PauloCereda ^^^^ see, your laziness is being appreciated ;)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle currently I was simply wondering if I can use it to restore the value after the group and if it means that there is an additional stack beside the color stack.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer you could trust the PS stack or if you don't trust the value will still be on the stack at that save it to a value. I suppose I could try...

@UlrikeFischer Error: /undefined in .setfillconstantalpha I have 9.52 too old I think ?

basically if you go .currentstrokeconstantalpha the value will be on the stack and if you arrange that it's still at the top of the stack later you just need .setstrokeconstantalpha to take it off the stack and restore the value.

@UlrikeFischer oh no you need NOSAFER let me try again..

Ulrike Fischer

4:04 PM

@DavidCarlisle ah, I got now what it means. This here does what I expected:

\ExplSyntaxOn
xxxx
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {.currentstrokeconstantalpha}
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {.currentfillconstantalpha}
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {0.1~.setstrokeconstantalpha}
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {0.1~.setfillconstantalpha}
zzzz
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {.currentstrokeconstantalpha}
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {.currentfillconstantalpha}
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {0.4~.setstrokeconstantalpha}
\__kernel_backend_postscript:n {0.4~.setfillconstantalpha}

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer cut and paste failure above I see :-)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle ?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer meant to paste in the PS command name but pasted a local filepath a few comments up:-)

barbara beeton

4:25 PM

@yo' -- No. The interpretation is "sz", but the shape of the letters is definitely "long s short s". The final letter is not the shape of "z", which can be found early in the letter in "zu". What I find fascinating is that the long s is used only in the esszet combined form. (And amazed that Gauss' handwriting is so much more readable than mine.)

AlexG

Would please some mod (@JosephWright ?) delete my recent answer. It was accepted in an earlier, incorrect state. I cannot delete it myself.

yo'

@barbarabeeton the long "s" was used in Fraktur scripts in Czech as well for any non-trailing "s". The fact that Gauss uses it only in his signature might be because it's handwriting, or because it's Gauss and he can do whatever he wants, or because it's a handwritten form of the eszett he liked.

Joseph Wright

@AlexG Done

@UlrikeFischer Sorted?

AlexG

@JosephWright Thanks!

Joseph Wright

@AlexG Isn't this all linked to the discussion items I'e tried to add in l3backend? Wouldn't it be easiest to define two approaches in an engine-dependent way then have a common 'payload' (without the q/Q pair)

barbara beeton

4:40 PM

@Skillmon -- I object! Even if I no longer have my waist-length pigtail.

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright I thought about an l3draw answer, but then wasn't sure if it works in plain ;-)

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer It should do: I on;y completed the parts that don't rely on resource management. You just have to get it to load: I guess miniltx will do it

barbara beeton

@yo' -- But in the letter, you can find other instances of the long s, as in "dass".

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Same plan, of course: abstract out using my details in l3backend

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright \input{miniltx}\input{l3draw.sty} gives "undefined command \document".

Joseph Wright

4:46 PM

@UlrikeFischer Hmm, perhaps not worth it: I guess we just push to move it to the kerenel ;)

@UlrikeFischer I posted a short answer :)

barbara beeton

@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- Mike Spivak used a very similar pronoun system in "The Joy of TeX", to the consternation of the AMS editorial department. But it stayed, and it works. (You can check it out; "Joy" has been released to CTAN as a pdf file.)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- But battleships are always referred to as "she", and sometimes cars.

yo'

@barbarabeeton ah right. Handwriting ligature then. And one with a style, I would say :)

(and btw, @barbarabeeton "Gausz" was really meant as a joke :-) )

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer not my fault

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I assumed that it is an l3draw problem, but now that you mention it, one should check all possible candidates ...

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer the only candidates are you and Joseph

Skillmon

5:03 PM

@barbarabeeton you're telling me there are women, on the internet? Unbelievable!

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle ;-). Well expl3.sty contains \tl_put_left:Nn \document, so it can only work if \document is defined.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer clearly you to blame for not using a proper hook

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen as @TeXnician said, it should run on macOS. The video was recorded on High Sierra. :)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, reimplementing a font management system was quite challenging, so we decided to delegate the task to a solid candidate which is fontconfig. Thanks to TL, it is available wherever the TeX distro is available.

@TeXnician ooh

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda and just hope no one notices that luatex doesn't necessarily look in the same places as fontconfig :-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle <3

barbara beeton

5:10 PM

@Skillmon -- There was at least one even on the Arpanet before that -- would you believe ie?

Alan Munn

5:34 PM

@PauloCereda Pretty scary what happened in Santa Catarina. I hope Analândia isn't next.

yo'

@AlanMunn ??

Alan Munn

@yo' A gang took a small city hostage in order to blow up and rob the bank there. They had something like 12 trucks and were heavily armed. This is not the first time this kind of attack has happened either, unfortunately.

yo'

@AlanMunn ah :(

Yeah, I'm afraid these things can get much worse soon, given the state of the Brazilian social system and economy, and the recent challanges. :-(

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn it was quite shocking to see that on TV. Several months ago, it happened to Rio Claro, a nearby city. Thankfully, Analândia has just one minor bank, so hopefully this won't happen in here... :(

@yo' quite :(

yo'

@PauloCereda yeah, was about to say, Anâlandia is probably to small for that, but the three cities around not quite :(

Paulo Cereda

5:40 PM

@yo' Exactly

Joseph Wright

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Runs fine here on Big Sur

Paulo Cereda

@yo' mum and dad say hi, by the way. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda oh greetings to them too! My present for you is on its way to me finally, and will be shipped to you as soon as possible :-)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' ooh a secret :)

Stefan Kottwitz

8:08 PM

@PauloCereda wacky handwriting on my new tablet :-D

Skillmon

8:46 PM

@StefanKottwitz really? That is "wacky handwriting"? Congratulations on such a pretty handwriting, especially considering it's on a tablet!

@barbarabeeton not sure, is that "it" or "me"? :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@Skillmon The tablet has a calligraphic pen. It follows your handwriting, but varies thickness depending on vertical or horizontal movement. It's fun writing by hand again.

Stefan Kottwitz

9:06 PM

@Skillmon writing random disoriented math :-)

LaTeXereXeTaL

I came in just in time to see that. I want that font!

Skillmon

@StefanKottwitz still, it looks very pleasantly and your handwriting seems very clear and aesthetic. I bet mine would still look horrible, even with technical aids like a calligraphic pen :P

@LaTeXereXeTaL well, enslave @StefanKottwitz and force him to produce extended showcases of this writing. Then find a good font designer and enslave that one as well to craft a digital font from those showcases.

LaTeXereXeTaL

@Skillmon Sounds very expensive!

Skillmon

@LaTeXereXeTaL that's the good part of enslavement: The workforce is pretty cheap after you accomplished the first step.

Stefan Kottwitz

9:23 PM

@Skillmon I will write a lot of love letters, the resulting score of return letters will determine the refined font glyph shapes and then it will be perfect. The law of large numbers.

Font tinder.

yo'

^^ @PauloCereda you should come over!

Rmano

10:19 PM

@Skillmon I used once this web calligraphr.com/en and I have to say that the result is quite nice... Do not look if you don't want to lose a lot of time ;-)

barbara beeton

@Skillmon -- er, um, it appears that my typing is as unintelligible as my handwriting. "It" is what was meant.

@StefanKottwitz -- Very nice! It's even slanted at the "recommended" angle. (Are you left- or right-handed? From this, I guess "right".)

Stefan Kottwitz

@barbarabeeton I slant at random :-) I tested the remarkable2 eInk tablet today.

I lost the Sony DPT-RP1 in my chaos so I ordered that one.

It's smaller but thinner and more crisp and faster in displaying.

barbara beeton

@yo' -- But almost no wind. Yesterday, we were inundated with 7+ cm of rain, and wind gusts occasionally reaching nearly 100 km per hour. It was pretty wild, and we were lucky to not lose power. One of the local interstates was closed because a stretch of the road was covered by a very large, and rather deep, puddle.

@StefanKottwitz -- I really meant that the pen is slanted properly. The apparent slant of what is written wasn't consideredl

yo'

At this time of the year, mornings usually get this cold only if the whether is calm. We also finally got the inversion cleared, so it'll get super-cold tonight.

On and Thursday will be headache-y as the pressure will drop by 20 hPa in 24h.

Stefan Kottwitz

10:35 PM

@barbarabeeton Ah! Trying.

barbara beeton

@StefanKottwitz -- Yes. That clearly shows that the angle of the pen is upward toward the right. That's the angle encouraged by all the calligraphy instructors I've ever taken classes with, and the angle that's "natural" if one is right-handed.

Stefan Kottwitz

Yes, I'm right-handed.

barbara beeton

A good exercise is to get paper with rules about a cm apart, and practice writing elliptical corkscrews. When you can manage those with no noticeable stress, making pretty (and uniform) letters should come more easily.

Paulo Cereda

11:15 PM

@StefanKottwitz oh my, your handwriting is so awesome!

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda oh you got my love letter :-)

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