TeX, LaTeX and Friends

@JosephWright I could try this evening but I'm not over familiar with the current xparse implementation (in my head it's still the original version from 1990s but I'll look)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Nothing to do with xparse ;)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright er yes xparse/keyval same thing:-)

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@DavidCarlisle almost. :)

@DavidCarlisle it's just "split at active commas, split at other commas, split at active/other equals sign, trim spaces, remove one outer brace pair, feed to macro". Now that you know what keyval is, hoosh hoosh! :)

David Carlisle

9:45 AM

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz it'll never catch on:-)

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ooh ninja rabbits

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle update: hyperref (53481 -> 53837) , Have you updated hyperref?

@PauloCereda Hola Paulo, ¿como está los patos hoy?

Paulo Cereda

@PabloGonzálezL Hola Pablo! Los patos están bien, gracias. E usted, como estás? (sorry for the potential linguistic butchery)

Pablo González L

@PauloCereda jeje, your Spanish is pretty good :)

Joseph Wright

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Hope you like the check-ins I've made

@PabloGonzálezL Meta-data

Paulo Cereda

9:53 AM

@PabloGonzálezL I probably fake very well. :)

Pablo González L

@JosephWright OK, aps...I left you a message yesterday I think (regarding l3build and specialtypesetting) .

Paulo Cereda

@PabloGonzálezL I have a guilty knowledge of old Spanish-spoken songs. :)

Joseph Wright

@PabloGonzálezL I missed that: can you repeat?

Ulrike Fischer

@PabloGonzálezL no, only some metadata in texlive because of dependencies have changed.

Pablo González L

@UlrikeFischer I see, that's why I didn't see any changes in the repository :)

Ulrike Fischer

10:01 AM

@PabloGonzálezL I asked the same yesterday: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/53593982#53593982

Pablo González L

The latest version of `l3build` is going great :)
just one thing, I noticed that the "order" of the files affects the result of `l3build install`, for example:

```
typesetfiles = {"demopkg.dtx", "example.tex"}
specialtypesetting = { }
specialtypesetting["example.tex"]= {func = type_example}
```
is perfect, but if you change the order:
typesetfiles = {"example.tex", "demopkg.dtx"}

it fails, running `l3build install --full --dry-run` shows the correct output
- source/latex/demopkg/demopkg.dtx
- source/latex/demopkg/demopkg.ins

David Carlisle

no

Joseph Wright

@PabloGonzálezL Tables are ordered, yes

@PabloGonzálezL But thta one is a bit odd, I'll see what I can do

Pablo González L

@JosephWright Thanks, one question, now that I saw that you marked 'os_yes' as obsolete, the documentation says that you write 200 lines, but the truth is that you write 300 lines (according to what @PhelypeOleinik wrote the other day and the code .lua)

Paulo Cereda

@PabloGonzálezL ^^

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10:13 AM

@JosephWright thank you very much! I didn't know I should indent \group_begin: on first level as well :)

@PauloCereda but the first telescopes didn't use mirrors but lenses :(

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ooh vampire engineers

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@PauloCereda °,..,°

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ooh

Das Vampir

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@PauloCereda "Der Vampir"

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz oopsie

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10:16 AM

@PauloCereda and the female is "Die Vampirin".

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ooh

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@PauloCereda no neutral form, could say "Das vampirische Wesen" instead.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz got it!

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright regarding "expanding \cite": It could be also useful for highlighting. See e.g. this question tex.stackexchange.com/q/529401/2388

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@PauloCereda I'm sure you'll be fluent after Lübeck.

Paulo Cereda

10:17 AM

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I will poison the linguistic heritage. :)

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@PauloCereda I'm sure @DavidCarlisle can help you!

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz :)

Pablo González L

@PauloCereda jaja...

Joseph Wright

10:39 AM

@PabloGonzálezL Er, yes, that is true

Pablo González L

@JosephWright :)

Joseph Wright

@PabloGonzálezL Is that checked in somewhere I can try out?

@MarcelKrüger I think I've got the popen stuff working, and it fixes the weird issue with tools and deployment!

Pablo González L

10:57 AM

@JosephWright You can use (github.com/pablgonz/demopkg-jw) and modify line 11 in build.lua

@JosephWright But you should use l3build install --full (without --dry-run) to check your TEXMFHOME.

Joseph Wright

@PabloGonzálezL I'll check that a bit later, and probably upload a fix today if I can

Pablo González L

@JosephWright Grateful again...

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12:30 PM

@JosephWright I'm sure you're glad to hear that now the comparison with expkv looks like this:

=== expkv: ===
8.66e-6 seconds (27 ops)
8.68e-6 seconds (27 ops)
8.67e-6 seconds (27.2 ops)
=== Original: ===
1.67e-5 seconds (52 ops)
1.67e-5 seconds (51.7 ops)
1.65e-5 seconds (51.8 ops)
=== Patched 2: ===
1.05e-5 seconds (32.5 ops)
1.05e-5 seconds (32.8 ops)
1.05e-5 seconds (32.7 ops)

Joseph Wright

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Pretty good

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I'm pretty sure we'll merge, just want to get the key-val expert (@DavidCarlisle) to check it

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@JosephWright well, turns out not automatically shipping with \expanded is faster if it's not needed (but a bit slower if it's needed now).

David Carlisle

@JosephWright will look but will not have chance before this evening

yo'

@UlrikeFischer Hi, please, how many people usually are at DANTE?

Ulrike Fischer

@yo' Hm, I don't know. I didn't count when I was there, I would say something between 30-60.

yo'

12:42 PM

@UlrikeFischer oh so that's quite a large meeting!

Ulrike Fischer

@yo' compared to some other meetings we heard from ;-)

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer having the meeting above ground helps

yo'

@DavidCarlisle LOL

@UlrikeFischer well, 60 would be the typical size of a conference I attended as a mathematician :)

(and also more than attendees e.g. in Rio)

David Carlisle

@yo' although to be fair uktug was above ground this year.

Ulrike Fischer

@yo' 60 would be large. I think in Heidelberg there were so many, but normally it is smaller.

yo'

12:48 PM

@UlrikeFischer ok

(we're discussing how many ducks to bring in :-) )

Ulrike Fischer

@yo' well if you need real numbers write to the organisator and ask.

yo'

@UlrikeFischer yep, sure, we'll see what we decide on

We also discuss whether there is anything we could bring in the meeting that would interest the others.

Ulrike Fischer

For once the standard answer is not "update in user and admin mode" but "delete a local fmt"

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1:19 PM

@DavidCarlisle and @yo' -- secret conversation, eh?

yo'

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ....

Paulo Cereda

2:43 PM

(removed)

David Carlisle

Jan 25 '14 at 19:53, by Paulo Cereda

(removed)

still have not learned how to remove things?

@UlrikeFischer we should compare our answers with \tracingall. Shortest log file wins.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle OK. If you add also \ColorNthChar{23}{examination} and \ColorNthChar{8}{examination}.

David Carlisle

2:59 PM

@UlrikeFischer also @egreg wants to play too.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle his memory for these commands are better. I knew there was something like the tl_range somewhere but couldn't find it.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh things

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer tick rightfully placed (and I added error checking as requested)

egreg

3:20 PM

@DavidCarlisle With much simpler macros, of course.

Paulo Cereda

David Carlisle

3:37 PM

@egreg yes the OP should use your answer in production but would learn more about how tex works from mine, so I'm sure I deserve the tick:-)

Joseph Wright

3:54 PM

@PabloGonzálezL I've looked, but I don't see the behaviour you describe :(

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4:18 PM

@JosephWright I love that commit github.com/latex3/latex3/pull/678/commits/… btw. wasn't me. I pulled that macro that way and was wondering whether I should report it, but then thought, nah, this is bound to have a reason...

Joseph Wright

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Yeah, sorry about that

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I thought I'd let you decide if you just want to rebase everything or leave the evidence ;)

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4:36 PM

@JosephWright I don't intend to retouch keys, that one is a bit big for me, would take me quite some time to get its scope, and then I wouldn't be sure at all whether I could increase its performance. And I don't care whether you fix that spurious line as part of my PR or outside of it :)

Joseph Wright

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz :)

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@JosephWright btw. I think that if it doesn't have to be expandable, I could perhaps get a bit more performance out of it, but the current implementation could be based on expkv so wasn't too much extra thought. The problem is, that once you document \keyval_parse:NNn as expandable, you can't revert back, while the opposite direction shouldn't break much (I just hope there is no code around relying on \keyval_parse:NNn being protected).

Joseph Wright

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I'm going to hold off a release of that code until after the TL freeze (end of next week)

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@JosephWright good, that way my expkv documentation can still claim being faster than expl3 by a margin (which it still will be, as I'm comparing key-setting macros, not keyval-parsing) :)

Paulo Cereda

5:26 PM

> Being forgetful can be a sign of high intelligence, according to researchers from the University of Toronto.

ooh

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@PauloCereda so there is hope for me!

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz me too :)

COTO

Thanks for the link @Rmano. I might undertake the project myself in the next few years, in the form of a Wiki. Simply adding links to the manual is a good first step, but TikZ really needs a complete API documentation with all the bells and whistles of API documentation for any other markup or programming language. The number of syntaxes, commands, keys, etc. is ridiculous, and all that power just goes to waste without top-notch tools for browsing the API.

Ulrike Fischer

5:47 PM

@MarcelKrüger in the french group there is an error report about an invalid list tail. Do you think that this is due to the engine bug just discussed on the luatex list?

\documentclass{article}
\RequirePackage[french]{babel}
\RequirePackage{soul}
%\directlua{luatexbase.remove_from_callback("kerning","frenchb.french_punctuation")}
\begin{document}
\hl{boom!}
\end{document}

David Carlisle

6:08 PM

@PauloCereda I knew that before but had forgotten about it.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh more intelligence

Marcel Krüger

6:25 PM

@UlrikeFischer The invalid list tail certainly is. But on current experimental versions of LuaTeX, we still get a soul error: "Reconstruction failed". It looks like soul assumes that all positioning changes are kerning between two characters, so it gets confused when the french punctuation code applies specing which depends on additional context.

TeXnician

6:42 PM

@COTO Have a look at the extractor scripts in the digestif project to get descriptions from the manual automatically.

Pablo González L

7:16 PM

@JosephWright Maybe I've explained more (a thousand apologies), without making modifications to my version in GitHub, the result is the expected:

$ tree $(kpsewhich -var-value=TEXMFHOME)
/home/pablo/texmf
0 directories, 0 files
$ cat -n build.lua | grep typesetfiles
31 typesetfiles = {"demopkg.dtx", "example.tex"}
$ l3build install --full --dry-run | grep '-'
- source/latex/demopkg/demopkg.dtx
- doc/latex/demopkg/demopkg.pdf
- doc/latex/demopkg/example/example.pdf
- doc/latex/demopkg/CTANREADME.md
- tex/latex/demopkg/demopkg.sty
- doc/latex/demopkg/example/example.tex
$ l3build install --full
$ tree $(kpsewhich -var-value=TEXMFHOME)
/home/pablo/texmf

@JosephWright Now run l3build uninstall and replace line 31 by `typesetfiles = {"example.tex", "demopkg.dtx"}

$ tree $(kpsewhich -var-value=TEXMFHOME)
/home/pablo/texmf
0 directories, 0 files
$ cat -n build.lua | grep typesetfiles
31 typesetfiles = {"example.tex", "demopkg.dtx"}
$ l3build install --full --dry-run | grep '-'
- source/latex/demopkg/demopkg.dtx
- doc/latex/demopkg/example/example.pdf
- doc/latex/demopkg/demopkg.pdf
- doc/latex/demopkg/CTANREADME.md
- tex/latex/demopkg/demopkg.sty
- doc/latex/demopkg/example/example.tex

@JosephWright So far it looks the same, but when you install:

$ l3build install --full
$ tree $(kpsewhich -var-value=TEXMFHOME)
/home/pablo/texmf
├── doc
│   └── latex
│   └── demopkg
│   ├── demopkg.pdf
│   ├── example
│   └── README.md
├── source
│   └── latex
│   └── demopkg
│   └── demopkg.dtx
└── tex
└── latex
└── demopkg
└── demopkg.sty

9 directories, 5 files

@JosephWright the example directory does NOT exist and the example file is without extension :( ...Do you understand a little more now?

Joseph Wright

7:49 PM

@PabloGonzálezL I'm trying exactly as you've written, modulo the fact I use Windows with a few GNU tools

Joseph Wright

8:23 PM

@PabloGonzálezL OK, this must be a platform-dependent thing, so presumably it's from the file operation abstractions; going to be a bit of work

Joseph Wright

8:36 PM

@PabloGonzálezL I think I see the issue

mickep

9:04 PM

@PauloCereda Ohh, a diagram

3

Marcel Krüger

11:01 PM

@UlrikeFischer I pushed some luaotfload changes which, when combined with a smaller luacolor patch, allow proper interaction of luacolor with the color feature.

Ulrike Fischer

@MarcelKrüger oh nice. I will test asap.

Ulrike Fischer

11:37 PM

@MarcelKrüger hm, doesn't work yet, if luaotfload.set_colorhandler then seems not to be true ...

@MarcelKrüger now it works, I seem to have missed the last commit at first.

Marcel Krüger

@UlrikeFischer That was my mistake, I forgot to push the right commit.

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11:56 PM

@JosephWright are there any reasons to stick with the (comparatively) slow \tl_if_empty:nTF implementation instead the faster \if:w test?

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends