@FaheemMitha and a six line matrix also one line? what about six displayed equations that get marked up as a array the same as a matrix, .... I'm interested to know what effects you were seeing that caused you to say that line numbering didn't work well for displayed math, it seems to me that so long as it doesn't give spurious tex errors more or less any arbitrary numbering is Ok.
Personally I'd go with the mathematical semantics I think. If something is a single equation or math expression, or part of an equation or math expression, it ought to count as one line.
@DavidCarlisle I mean, without extensive low level fiddling.
@FaheemMitha the line number is just a latex counter so if a line numbering package counts a display as 1 line and you want to think of it as two you can always trivially \addtocounter{..}{1} to get the numbering back on track even if it does not display the numbers next to the equations
@FaheemMitha there are 294 out of 175,570 questions tagged line-numbering and most seem to have an answer so I don't see much evidence of major unsolved issues in that area.
@DavidCarlisle I just meant that people do number their pages using TeX. As opposed to using something else.
There are other ways of numbering pages of a TeX document than using TeX, but by definition they are even less intelligent.
To return to my question yesterday, per @JosephWright's answer, the \luastringN includes an \unexpanded... "token". Is that the right word? How about if you want it to be expanded? Do you just omit the \unexpanded?
@FaheemMitha yes as I said in chat here you can use \directlua(.... "#1") if you have control over #1 and know it expands to something that is valid content for a lua string
@FaheemMitha "number pages"? I thought we were talking of numbering lines?
@FaheemMitha it depends, possibly, possibly not. If you do then lua characters that might not be safe get replaced by things that might be safe, but in some cases you may want to handle that yourself
@FaheemMitha luatex does have a manual and luaescapestring is documented there as "Most often, this command is not actually the best way to deal with the differences between TeX and Lua. "
@FaheemMitha there are not many real cases where you want to pass arbitrary tex token lists to lua, so the situation does not come up much in practice I think.
@FaheemMitha take the example in your question, that is concatenating two arbitrary tex token lists in lua and passing the result back to tex, so you need all kinds of quoting to make sure the lists are safe in tex and in a lua string, but you would never need to do that in real code, it is simply \def\foo#1#2{#1#2} so no lua involved.
I don't know what that is. I do have one argument/field that might have accented characters (human names). So I could selectively disable expansion for that argument?
I mean, it's supposed to help with some corner cases, so the question is where it's worth keeping it around in case those corner cases make an appearance.
@FaheemMitha luaescapestring is only an issue if you have single or double quotes or newlines or backslashes in the argument, no other characters are affected
@FaheemMitha yes, unless someone has used newunicodechar package to give characters an active meaning, or you have characters like ~ that are active by default.
@FaheemMitha well take the example of double quotes, if you know that you are using \directlua{[[#1]]} then double quotes in #1 are not a problem so \luaescapestring won't help. Conversely ]] in #1 is a problem but luaescapestring does nothing about that. If on the other hand you are using \directlua{"#1"} and #1 might contain a double quote, \luescapestring is a convenience function to quote the " in the string.
@DavidCarlisle I know Hans is not keen on \luaescapestring, but if you use either " or ' for the 'outer' string mark-up, it works as far as I know robustly
@FaheemMitha just basic lua syntax nothing to do with tex, you would have [[[abc]]] which is the string [abc followed by a trailing ] so most likely a lua syntax error.
@JosephWright yes, but usually I think you are passing numbers or known tokens to lua, arbitrary text runs normally better handled by callbacks so the need to quote unknown token lists is not that common I think
@FaheemMitha i mean it's definitely an error if that is all it is, but as a fragment of a larger lua expression it coul dbe valid depending what else is going on.
@FaheemMitha not an answerable question. if you use [[ you can have multi-line text if you use " then it has to be a single lua line and you need to quote newlines as \n but which is more convenient depends on all kinds of factors, which is why lua provides both
@JosephWright possibly not, was out all day yesterday, let me look..
@JosephWright oh the box stuff, sorry I had a long standing action to look at that... I just looked over the PR and it all looks reasonable but not sure if I am going to have any tine today for a real review, I should go with what you have
@JosephWright You mean because scan_argument only came in 1.10 (or 1.09?)? Maybe you could just use scan_string, they should do the same stuff in this context. That should be there for quite some time already.
@JosephWright I just did some experiments and certainly the much bigger impact would come from using \luadef. This would require version tests, but it is faster by a factor of ~5. (See gist.github.com/zauguin/520b6dd6e4fb3cbc5776e0aed68f282e , I do not know how to post code here)
@MarcelKrüger That is wroth considering (@DavidCarlisle). I suspect we should do the same for all of the Lua-based stuff we need to emulate TeX primitives, so in \char_generate:nn, \file_get_timestamp:nN, etc. Would you be 'up' for making a PR?
I switched from Windows 7 to Ubuntu 14.04. The following code was producing this output.
\documentclass[oneside,english,a4paper, 12pt]{book}
\usepackage{a4wide, fullpage, color, fancyhdr, lastpage, changepage, multirow, calligra, graphicx}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}...
@MYaseen208 I don't have ubuntu nor have I tried installing getnonfreefonts so can't help, as i say if you think something has changed ask a new question referencing that or (better) ask the maintainers
@manooooh the entire definition of caption is only 23 lines, so you can copy it and add some definition for a star form (latex.ltx starting at line 6135)
@manooooh the default for multi-lined captions is justified not left aligned, certainly I wouldn't center the lines, just centre the parbox that contains justified text (which is what the above does)
@DavidCarlisle I have a diagram of a simple graph, and I am specifing some important notes of the diagram. With this context I think I need to add a ".", right?
@nbro well you need to generate it with something, oh actually glosaaries does have a (not recommended) option to do all the sorting in tex but usually you would use makeindex, see texdoc glossaries page 15 or so
@manooooh if the caption is long enough to be set as a paragraph then I'd use . if it is a one or two word caption then it varies, I just searched all instances of \caption in the thousands of tex files I have used for examples here and some have . and some not, for no real reason
@nbro oh makeglossaries is a wrapper/alternative for makeindex that should work
@nbro impossible to debug disconnected fragments, make a small complete example and ask a question on site.
@manooooh I can't really help, in english these things are very variable and individual publishers have guidelines for what they want (which they probably just made up one day in the pub) I have no idea at all about the conventions in non-English documents
@manooooh really that is not a figure (it is part of the surrounding list) so the text isn't a caption, it is just a part of the text for item (b) so it should be set as a normal paragraph and end with a . I'd say.
@DavidCarlisle in LaTeX, when we are writing indented code and we need to insert a blank line i.e. an Enter, this new line which is empty has to be with indentation or not?
I think not
I think all blank lines do not have to be indented
I could check on this myself, I guess, but are there scoping issues when writing Lua functions for use with LuaTeX that I should be aware of? I know that Lua encourages one to declare local variables so that they global namespace is not contaminated, but the downside that local variables may not then be visible elsewhere?
My LuaTeX question made HNQ for some reason.
Though I suspect not many people will be clicking on it.
@manooooh -- The decision can be based not on "is it long enough?", but on whether or not it is a sentence. Although I have trouble reading this in the exceedingly small type that shows up on my screen, it looks like a sentence. So yes, end it with a period.
@manooooh -- If I interpret this correctly, the blank line is purely for formatting, i.e., making it easier to distinguish the \nodes from the \draws. Thus, the extra vertical line indicating the indentation is meaningless; I would delete whatever caused it, in this case (probably) multiple spaces -- but only enough of them to remove that single vertical, not any of the ones to the left of it.
@barbarabeeton but, as @DavidCarlisle lighted me up, in this context we don't need to put it as caption but as normal text, because 1) it is inside an enumerate, 2) this diagram ends \item
@barbarabeeton yes, you are right! But sometimes inside enumerate, to make a new paragraph, we need to add Enter, so as it is indentated (because of \begin{enumerate}), we have generated a new blank space with indentation. So my question is, should we delete its indentation?
@barbarabeeton all you said actually is useful for me :D
@barbarabeeton we don't need to discuss whether a blank space is necessary or not, I am discusing whether when a blank space appears we add spaces to align it with the rest of coude
@manooooh -- The example you showed looks more to me like a formatted algorithm than the output of enumerate. I'm not willing to extrapolate this to an enumerate environment. However, my instinct is to add whatever blank spaces may be necessary to give a result that shows the intended "level" of the line, and no more. In the example, there appear to be more spaces than necessary, resulting in a "visible level" indicator, which here is incorrect.
You will probably have to check the output to make sure the input is correct.
Hmm, this Lua function is behaving differently in Lua then when run from an Emacs buffer/script, which suggests there may indeed be a scoping issue. Time to try a simple TeX MWE.
@barbarabeeton forget about the 2 or 3 spaces added, this problems appears when copying from Overleaf to TeXnicCenter. If you want, you can analyze this code:
@barbarabeeton I was meaning to ask what you are doing now. I had the impression you had stuff lined up. Though I forget what that stuff is. Isn't some conference in the offing?
@manooooh -- That's pretty awful. Both of these are wrong, in my opinion. I'd repair the second one to add just enough spaces to line that extra vertical up with the second long vertical, and hope it aligns properly. Or, consider ending the previous line with \\[1\baselineskip]. Since I don't know what package is being used, it's impossible to know whether this is allowed.
@manooooh you always need a blank line to end a paragraph (whether not a paragraph should be indented should always be set as a general style never on an individual paragraph.
@FaheemMitha -- Well, TUG 2019 is happening in August, and I expect to attend (barring disasters). Unfortunately, I haven't yet found (in my myriad boxes) the notes I made before I retired with the intention of giving a talk, so ... this year no talk.
@barbarabeeton @manooooh is showing the latex file source and asking about indenting style there, not about typesetting. (or at least, I think that is the case:-)
@manooooh I would say it really is wrong to worry about things, that kind of thinking leads to complicated cut and paste rules that people end up following, without realising that none of the complication is needed. the rule is really simple, white space at start of line is ignored (it is not even reported to tex) anything else you say about that is making things more complicated for no good reason.
@FaheemMitha -- I have it on backup media, but the only computer I have access to is a really out-of-date macbook, and trying to read the particular media (created on a linux box) on that is more than 50% likely to reformat it so that it can't be read again later on another *nix box, which is what I want to acquire as soon as some serious hardware/software/connectivity questions are answered. (I don't want to be my own sysadmin; my husband has agreed, but his experience is all IBM mainframe.)
@DavidCarlisle -- Okay. I'm not at all used to verticals of this sort showing in input, so I interpreted it (apparently incorrectly) as the output. Under the circumstances, @manooooh, you really don't need the indentation.
@barbarabeeton yes, the image is not an output but the internal code of my document. I know that I don't need the indentation, but it is useful for me or for any programmer that needs to read the source code. So, with this in mind, should we keep spaces in a blank line or not?
@DavidCarlisle I don't understand. I know the spaces are ignored, but what does it have to do with the fact that we need blank spaces to make a new paragraph?
@manooooh if you share authoring with another person using a different editor, you would find that different people indent by different amounts, but in any case people should just go with the flow and do what there editor does. It makes no sense to indent by hand or spend ages trying to customise different editors to match.
@FaheemMitha -- It's against AMS rules to let anyone not an employee use their systems. It actually took me an extra week to pack boxes, but the plug was pulled on my workstation as soon as I logged off on my last day. (Auditors. At least, that is the excuse they give.)
@manooooh you need a blank line, you never need spaces space characters at the start of a line are not reported to tex.
@barbarabeeton Here we introduced a system that people could be kept on a "retainer" (less than 100 pounds a year, so not enough to live on:-) but it allows us to give people who retire machine access/email etc without worrying the lawyers.
@DavidCarlisle -- While that's true, some mail systems, when forwarding files, strip off final blanks and if there's nothing left on a line, may also remove the "blank line". This is undoubtedly OS dependent. Unfortunately, I've seen too many files where this happened to trust anything without careful examination.
@DavidCarlisle -- Your management is much more enlightened than that at AMS. (Things have gotten less and less "friendly", and more and more bureaucratic through the years. When I was first hired, the exdir was a "benevolent despot", accent on "benevolent".)
@FaheemMitha -- I've already reached fossilhood. I shall look around for some nice volunteer opportunity, preferably one to which I don't have to commute a great distance. My TeX background (as @DavidCarlisle will tell you) is too grounded in history, and not up to date with current practices; AMS procedures are (for stability reasons) several years behind the times, and that was a very constrained system.
@barbarabeeton It's possible you are, in common parlance, selling yourself short. But I don't enough about TeX to offer an informed comment. I don't even know viable TeX consulting is. My impression is that relevant parties think that both software and support should be free.
@FaheemMitha -- "Selling myself short", maybe. But I haven't yet learned LaTeX3, have a very biased view regarding the stability of luatex, and aside from being able to guess in many situations where to look for an input error, may not be able to fix it expeditiously.
Journal support for TeX is terrible. Some years I spent months going and forth trying to get help from the journal regarding a style file. Finally I came here (not sure why I didn't do so initially), and I got a diagnosis and a workaround in, as I recall, half an hour.
Bottom line, if you use TeX, you should be willing to support it. Morons.
@FaheemMitha -- It's my understanding that backward compatibility is not guaranteed. Coming from a background where a journal article may have to be resuscitated after 20+ years to be used in a "collected works" volume, that is anathema to me.
@FaheemMitha -- Well, the AMS does support TeX, though not as thoroughly as I pleaded for, for 20+ years. It took them more than ten years to admit publicly that they would no longer accept submissions in AMS-TeX.
@FaheemMitha -- I'm learning to be careful in ascribing terms like "moron". In a certain current situation (which has nothing to do with TeX), I feel that using that term is insulting morons.
@barbarabeeton Yeah, but that just means you reprint the same text, not that you reprint on a new volume with no change (certainly with no change in design: that's rather the point of new editions)
@JosephWright -- It's considered an honor for a noted mathematician to have a volume of "collected works" published. It's also a mechanism to get more income, though typically not a lot. If most of these "works" are journal articles, a used bookstore isn't of much use. Having a stable input file cuts down enormously on the proofreading cost.
@barbarabeeton I see the point, I guess I wonder how people get away with it ;) Both in terms of copyright (multiple publishers ...), and in terms of style (book vs journal), it seems incredibly strange to me
@JosephWright -- Permissions can be a nightmare, but they're only rarely rejected, at least among the more "academic" publishers. I think that AMS may be getting more submissions because of the behavior of Elsevier et al. (Possibly the same with Annals of Math, Pacific Journal, other journals not yet farmed out to someplace commercial.) And books usually aren't included in "collected works" except by reference.
@barbarabeeton I'm sure permission is achievable, like I say it's just out of my area. I meant more style: to me, the way I write journal articles and the way I'd write a book chapter are rather different (I've only done one book chapter, mind, and lots of papers).
@JosephWright -- AMS, at least, has very few monographs with different authors for each chapter; that's not particularly relevant in math. Articles for proceedings of seminars and symposia aren't particularly different from journal articles; again, perhaps a math idiosyncrasy.
@barbarabeeton I do see all of that, I guess I still find it odd that people expect original research to be re-printed, rather than summarised in textbooks by different authors (summing up the work of multiple people)
@FaheemMitha -- I wasn't involved in the design, but I did do an investigation for the editor at one time. (The editor also happened to be president of the society.) He wondered why some articles in a couple of issues looked so dreadful. Turns out that the authors of those articles didn't trust TeX, and inserted their own spacing. Over time, most authors have grown either more used to the TeX conventions, or have been browbeaten into using standard practices.
@JosephWright -- Mathematical theorems usually aren't easily summarized. Every step of a proof is essential. So it's often essential to examine the full original (even if it's well known), especially when trying to build on it or present an alternate proof.
@barbarabeeton Sure, I get that, but I suppose it's all the rest of the text I'd expect to see altered, for example ordering between material, introduction, context, ...
@JosephWright -- If I remember correctly, it took Andrew Wiles four extensive articles, equivalent to an entire issue of the Annals, to prove Fermat, and I think there wasn't much "fluff" in the lot. But a lot of the practices in math publishing can probably be attributed to the established culture of mathematic[ian]s. It's a very different culture.
@JosephWright -- Sometimes there are later corrections that need to be merged in. Sometimes the original format has a different page size (and that almost guarantees the necessity of a new proofreading). Provided the files are in good condition, it's usually easier to set up a comprehensive TeX run than to handle each item individually -- computers are (now) cheaper than people. AMS records the environment (engine, package/version number, etc.) and preserves that in the driver file. Ready to rerun.
@barbarabeeton Think you'd go mad with what happens in my area :)
@barbarabeeton For example, a colleague (and former boss) recently wrote amazon.co.uk/…. It's basically a second edition combining two earlier books ...
@JosephWright -- Well, the one reviewer gave the combined edition a higher rank than either of the previous separate books, so there must have been some other improvements. (Or a somewhat biased reviewer.) But it's my understanding that chemistry "moves faster" than math, so a full update was warranted. (Hope it wasn't just pro forma, like many textbook "updates".)
@barbarabeeton Oh, the re-write was definitely worth it. One review says not much has changed, but that's not really true. Also, the older 'primers' look inexpensive, but they add up (the whole series is nearly 100 books).
@barbarabeeton I'm biased, perhaps, as the content more-or-less aligns with the course I teach, oddly :) But I recommend it to my students
@JosephWright -- AMS does not return the files as published to an author, except in preparation for a contracted revised edition. So an author will be fortunate in that respect. (Although I'm sure that some authors will be appalled at many of the changes made in the course of production to their precious code.)
@barbarabeeton Totally get that, didn't expect they would :)
@barbarabeeton If you are doing a second edition, you probably 'put back' all the annoying things the publisher 'fixed' as a first step ;)
@barbarabeeton In the case of my colleague, the publisher managed to ruin all of the figures in the new edition, in the sense the font got messed up. He was not too pleased, as he'd set up exactly as they'd asked, drawn everything, then had to correct them all ...
@JosephWright -- Maybe true. I was never really involved in the production of a revised edition; that's mostly in the hands of the production editors. I did, though, as author support, get occasional questions about what something meant, and was usually able to explain why it was done, so it didn't get undone unless a change in meaning was involved.
@JosephWright -- Figures are one of the reasons that AMS still uses LaTeX --> dvips --> Acrobat distiller to produce the print version (pdflatex for the electronic, to get the correct links). That permits automated graphics checking, which includes a thorough font verification.
@barbarabeeton I'm of course thinking of a Word-based workflow here, so the figures were pasted into Word (Windows I think), and stored inside it using OLE (they were drawn in the mighty ChemDraw); I'm an unusual chemist, remember, in using LaTeX when I can
@mickep -- The authors usually do use pdflatex. The two versions (print vs. electronic) are subjected to a page-by-page check to make sure that all line and page breaks are identical. And that is the kind of consistency and backward compatibility that I've been used to and insist on.
@barbarabeeton i'm still surprised by that: I'd have thought someone in the serious PDF preflight business would have written a suitable tool
@barbarabeeton I (and the rest of the team) are well-aware that dvips is still important: @DavidCarlisle and @UlrikeFischer know I've done a lot of work recently on driver stuff and dvips
@JosephWright -- As I understand it, things have gotten better. But authors tend to scale figures, without taking into account the fact that font sizes can get too small and lines will become thinner. Any line less than about .75pt thick (especially if colored or not solid black) may not be clear (or even visible) when printed on an offset press. After a document is in pdf form, it's not always easy to tell what's part of a figure. As a colleague once put it, "it's all hamburger."
@JosephWright -- If you know of a super-good, super-reliable preflight tool that can isolate such problems, I'm sure the AMS production crew would love to learn about it.
@barbarabeeton Sure, but don't you have one 'hamburger' per figure? We always have to supply each graphic separately, including (usually) details of how we made it. I have fun saying 'pdfLaTeX + GhostScript' for mine :) (I always re-process PDFs)
@JosephWright -- No. Everything is run in-line. dvips just gives references to the separate figures, so they're isolated when they need to be. The article or book in pdf form with embedded figures is meatloaf.
@JosephWright -- Most of the time, tikz graphics are in-line. In case of problems, they may be extracted, run separately, and then included as graphics. But those aren't usually the ones that are scaled inappropriately. Separate .eps and .pdf figures are often submitted, and the scaling done in the tex file. So checking the separate figure without that information doesn't provide useful results.
@barbarabeeton Don't you just ignore scaling by the authors?
@barbarabeeton I'd (naively) imagine the first step of proper typesetting would be strip out any author scaling so the professional typesetter can actually see how they look
@JosephWright -- What if the graphic, as supplied, is ten inches wide? Without scaling, that can't be fit onto the printed page. No. The author's scaling can't be ignored. (Often it may be changed, but not ignored.)
@barbarabeeton You must do a lot better than we do: I know that figures should be either one column (8.8 cm) or two columns wide, but most authors don't. I imagine chemistry typesetters re-scale every single figure to make them actually the right size ...
@JosephWright -- I think that authors are getting the hang of things. Even if the scaling factor isn't exactly appropriate, the positioning in the incoming files is usually quite good at making the author's intent clear. And that is really important; avoiding changes in meaning is the primary goal of the copyeditors, and figure placement is often critical in that respect.
@JosephWright -- No doubt true in any scientific/technical area. The copyeditors need to have at least a smattering of knowledge in the discipline, as well as be able to spell.
@barbarabeeton I mean that most papers are still done as manuscripts, with 'FIGURE 1 NEAR HERE' instructions ... which then get more-or-less ignored or which are almost impossible to follow due to figure size
@barbarabeeton I just got a question from a copyeditor who had noticed that copy&paste of an url in a bib broken at a hyphen doesn't work as the hypehn is lost - I wondered why someone even thought to check this ;-)
@JosephWright well but such tools would use the url in the annotation and not try to copy&paste imho (the url was fine, it is really only in the adobe reader when you select and copy).
@JosephWright -- TUGboat does get submissions with two-column figures, which sometimes have to be placed at the bottom of the first page. We've got a reasonable, if hackish, solution for that; a question about it exists somewhere on the main tex.sx site.
@barbarabeeton I wonder if you ever have to do one-and-a-half column floats :) I have at least one paper where that was the solution the typesetter picked
@UlrikeFischer -- Hmmm. Good crystal ball? I would assume that if the first line of a broken url ends with a hyphen, it's a real one. On the other hand, it's likely that Adobe reader doesn't know (or doesn't bother to check) that it's a url, so disappears the hyphen. I'll have to remember that.
@JosephWright it was a quite interesting question. I learned that the adobe reader doesn't have suitable tools to copy an url (with sumatry and the adobe pro you can use the context menu).
@JosephWright -- In TUGboat, we'd treat then as full-width floats, and center the content within the float area. We don't set text to half-column width. (That's the easy way out.)
@barbarabeeton the adobe reader only allows to copy the url "as text", and so hyphen disappears. But using hard hyphens doesn't help: then the hyphen doesn't disappear but the link doesn't work as it is the wrong hyphen.
@barbarabeeton Talking parenthetically about DVI vs PDF workflows, looks like we are almost (finally) sorted with a robust way to break links in dvips :) (@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer, @PauloCereda)
I switched from Windows 7 to Ubuntu 14.04. The following code was producing this output.
\documentclass[oneside,english,a4paper, 12pt]{book}
\usepackage{a4wide, fullpage, color, fancyhdr, lastpage, changepage, multirow, calligra, graphicx}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}...
