@samcarter ^^^^^^ what do you think of this proof? Is it detailed enough? ;-)

@CarLaTeX are you there?

@manooooh Here I am

@CarLaTeX hey :)

@CarLaTeX do you want to represent wonderful words?

@manooooh Is it possible to play on the smartphone? I'm not at home at the moment

@CarLaTeX you have to install the official app :/

@manooooh Let's postpone to tomorrow, then

@CarLaTeX ok!! Best of luck :)

@manooooh Ciao

@UlrikeFischer Cool

@UlrikeFischer Let me know if/when I should set up a fork in the LaTeX3 area

@UlrikeFischer On the file renaming business, perhaps I should add a generic 'rename these files' idea to l3build

@UlrikeFischer I've had an idea of how to handle multiple configurations and tests, so the .diff files don't get zapped. I'll implement today if I get time.

@marmot The Riemann Duckjecture?

Can somebody who is using MikTeX look whether ducksay is updated to version 2? And if so, whether the files ducksay.animals.tex, ducksay.code.v1.tex and ducksay.code.v2.tex are included?

In TeXLive the three files are not included which makes the package unuseable :(

I think I have to write one of those *.ins files (which I don't understand yet)...

@Skillmon Where's the source? Is there a repo we can check?

@JosephWright github.com/Skillmon/ltx_ducksay

@Skillmon They end up in the doc tree. Write on the TeX Live list about it.

@egreg thanks for pointing out. What can I do to prevent such issues in the future?

@Skillmon Can't help noticing your licensing. I'd avoid adding any clauses to a license: it's not a good long-term plan. If you don't like GPLv3, don't pick it ...

@Skillmon I see it happening rather frequently when there are auxiliary tex files.

@Skillmon i see no update yet. When I get it I will check if it is complete.

@JosephWright lets wait a bit. I just planted in various place my address and three more or less official locations would be a bit too much imho.

@UlrikeFischer Sure: I was also thinking a proper 'clean up' is going to be required

@JosephWright I do like the GPLv3, it's just not the common license for a LaTeX package. That's why I also licensed it under the LPPL1.3c. Maybe I'll drop the GPLv3 in future releases. My other published packages are under the LPPL only.

@Skillmon I meant the clause you've added to GPLv3 ...

@Skillmon We (team) have been discussing dual licensing recently :)

@JosephWright "This package is distributed under the terms of GPLv3 or later, or the LPPL 1.3c or later, which ever license fits your needs the best." No clause added, or did I formulate it wrongly?

@JosephWright Oh yes. E.g. there are at least five locations where the various involved file lists are stored -- with varying syntax and naming scheme (sometimes with prefix, sometimes not). The version infos are different everywhere, which makes tagging up to impossible. There are lots of tex-files which probably should be in the docs and more. I will made a list of issues ;-)

@Skillmon I wasn't questioning any particularly license

% Alternatively you can use this work under the terms of the GNU General Public
% Licensce (GPL), version 3 or later, except that you might not redistribute it
% under the same  name if you change  its functionality.  Choose which of these
% licenses fits your needs the best.

@Skillmon ^^^

@UlrikeFischer Cool

@UlrikeFischer What I was imagining is setting up a 'new' luaotfload repo in the LaTeX3 GitHub organisation, not forking from an existing one but rather pushing from e.g. my laptop (so breaking the 'link'). Then asking the other 'owners' to remove their ones, so we have a single definitive place. First, though, branches and issues do need cleaning up.

@JosephWright then I'll drop the GPL in future releases... Doesn't hurt.

@JosephWright did you saw my last messages yesterday? The documentation \inputs a file and I had a really hard time to copy this to the doc folder, both for compilation and for ctan and had to set supportdir at the end, which doesn't feels quite right. Could you take a look at build.lua and tell me how to correctly include luaotfload-main.tex?

@UlrikeFischer I missed the message. I'll make myself a fork and take a look (so I can send a PR with fixes)

@UlrikeFischer If the easiest fix is moving a few source files around, will that be OK?

@JosephWright lualibs and luaotfload are under GNU GPLv2 license exactly (from context). Would this be a problem for a maintenance in latex?

@UlrikeFischer One for an email :)

@UlrikeFischer I'll reply shortly

@JosephWright depends on which files. Moving the files in doc should be okay. But there is no complicated structure in the docs: almost everything is in ./doc with the exception of two text files in the main dir.

@JosephWright You mean to replace the various import scripts to get the files from context? I'm not sure if this is very generic code ;-).

@UlrikeFischer No, I meant for the 'two README' situation. I could code in a specific 'name of README for CTAN' variable

@UlrikeFischer About to have a look: got sidetracked

@JosephWright ah yes. That would a good idea. Currently github shows it as soon as one switch to the doc folder.

@UlrikeFischer I'll think about it: perhaps one for email

@UlrikeFischer Do you have anything non-standard in your set up? For me, l3build doc on a fresh check-out doesn't work cleanly

@JosephWright well the texmf tree with the files must be active (luaotfload-tool e.g. must find its script, and also the new lualibs files must be found). On travis the tree is set as texmfhome. the texmf tree is build with l3build install. the build lua sets the option for this relative location.

@UlrikeFischer Ah, right, so it is non-standard: explains things

@UlrikeFischer So you export a custom TEXMFHOME before running the scripts?

@JosephWright only on travis. locally the texmf is simply one more root added with tlmgr conf auxtrees.

@UlrikeFischer Yeah, but that's still non-standard

@UlrikeFischer The 'standard' team set up would be to have all of those files in the support dir, and copy them across ... but it's your call, of course

@JosephWright if you can tell me how in the standard setup luaotfload-tool.exe can use luaotfload-tool.lua ...

@UlrikeFischer Hmm, the tool part is tricky ... I'll think about it

@UlrikeFischer I'll need a while to fiddle about, and perhaps adjust l3build. Give me until this evening?

@Skillmon note that a clause saying you had to rename was what got LPPL classified as non-free by Debian, and why LPPL 1.3 drops that (and just encourages renaming without enforcing it)

@JosephWright it is not only the tool party. for some tests involving kpse the result is different if support files are in the current directory or in a texmf. E.g. in the lua-font-pond I'm testing if lua fonts are found in fonts/misc/luafont.

@UlrikeFischer Hmm: the results shouldn't be variable in the first place, and should be normalised otherwise

@UlrikeFischer At the very least, I'll need to put something into l3build such that ther's no need to set anything other than 'have a TeX system installed'

@JosephWright what I mean that I have to test this feature. files in the current directory are normally found always, but files searched with kpse only if the code (the kpse option) is correct.

@UlrikeFischer Hmm: files in the local directory should only be found if the appropriate input is activated ...

@UlrikeFischer can't you arrange that there is a local texmf.cnf in the test area which sets up whatever kpathse paths you need

@DavidCarlisle There is that I guess

@CarLaTeX @egreg I just had the most gruesome lunch in years: My wife ordered food as we didn't have much time to cook today and thought she might do the kids a favour by ordering hotdog pizza. So my lunch consisted out of a mixture of Hawaiian pizza and hotdog pizza (with way too much ketchup -- who puts ketchup on pizza anyway?).

@DavidCarlisle Hm, yes. should be possible. I would have to write it on-the-fly so that it works on different systems. I will think about it.

@JosephWright what I meant is, that some parts of the code related to searching of font files can only be tested if there is a real texmf tree around.

@UlrikeFischer well yes that's sort of why the tu-config tests in latex2e/base are separate, then main test suite is in a sandbox that doesn't use the installed files but the TU tests need to get (at least) the fonts from the local system

@JosephWright If I setup such a local texmf tree, can (and how) then prevent l3build from copying the/some of the source files to the current directory?

@UlrikeFischer Like I say, I guess I need to think about the detail here: this is a complex situation

@DavidCarlisle but I don't need only access to my local system, but to dedicated files in a texmf tree of the repo. As an example look at the "font" files here: github.com/u-fischer/lua-font-pond/tree/master/texmf/fonts/misc/…. There are loaded in github.com/u-fischer/lua-font-pond/blob/master/testfiles/… with a kpse search.

@UlrikeFischer In the first instance: exactly what command do you run at the moment (I want to start from a known place!)

@JosephWright for which step of the process?

@UlrikeFischer Well, whatever you do before you run l3build doc or l3build ctan or whatever for luaotfload. I want to be sure I start with something working!

@UlrikeFischer yes sure but if the tu-testfiles area had a texmf.cnf pointing at a local texmf tree that would do the same (but Joseph might give you an l3build setting for that anyway once it's clear what the spec is:-)

@DavidCarlisle Exactly: if we need new features here, I'll supply them

@JosephWright from current the state of the repo, adding the texmf tree with `tlmgr conf auxtrees add path/to/texmf" should be enough. Then l3build doc should work. But @DavidCarlisle is quite right, using a local texmf.cnf would be better.

@UlrikeFischer Right, I'll try that

@UlrikeFischer I don't like the sound of l3build doing tlmgr conf as that's changing the default setup on the local system (unless I misunderstand?) (@JosephWright)

@DavidCarlisle Yup: I've just been stopped as it needs Admin rights :)

@JosephWright on my machine it doesn't as I installed the "system" texlive as me, but I don't think an l3build check should be changing the tex paths on the system that have an effect for later normal documents (and you wouldn't be able to ensure "undoing it" at the end of the test run in cases of failure

@Skillmon Anathema!

@DavidCarlisle All true

@DavidCarlisle i just said that a local texmf.cnf would be better ;-).

@UlrikeFischer I think we all agree on this: doesn't need new build features, is self-contained, ...

@JosephWright ok. Make a suggestion ;-). If it could also at the same time setup the location for l3build install it would be even better.

@UlrikeFischer Shouldn't need to install files for testing ... that's rather the point of l3build

@JosephWright back to square one. How can luaotfload-tool find its script?

@UlrikeFischer I'm thinking :)

@UlrikeFischer Like I said, I need to do some tests: might take a while

Cannot resist. From where did this room originate? I congratulate myself as one of the mystics of TeX/LaTeX.

And Mathjax.

@humn Huh?

@humn The TeX site ...

I learned from Knuth.

And then. hang on.

@humn Knuth himself showed you this chat?

Donald (not Trump) taught me secrets not yet revealed.

And from David for MathJaX. And i taught each a thing or two as well.

@egreg Precisely

Neither brought me here. I'm just nosy.

Can't wait to share my \secrets!

Sorry, i should backlog to find out what has already been shared.

@UlrikeFischer I think I might need to set TEXMFCNF in the script, then making a custom texmf.cnf should work ... thinking

Knuth had one goof, or so admitted. "\loop"

I think it's brilliant but he is embarassed.

It has a bail-out, which every loop needs.

Sorry to but in. When i saw a site for (La)TeX, the fingers went here.

I make packages in both TeX and LaTeX in my sleep. And MathJaX.

Just can't help it.

Please welcome me.

Or not. I will continue.

@humn Hello

@JosephWright , thank you!

Anyone who can \understand this language is truly brave.

Next, PostScript. Don't get me started.

@humn PostScript is just stack based

@humn TeX is perfectly clear

Each is perfect in their own ways.

PS is pure. (La)TeX is truly inspired.

I've never known a language as pure as PostScript. What's it called now? PDF?

But the backslash grammar of where we are is a work of art.

A labor of love. (From one who knows the lover.)

@JosephWright, ya still here? To say PS is stack based is to understand. Welcome, stranger!

PS is backward strung while (La)TeX is forward strung.

In my honest opinion.

@JosephWright yes, that's actually how I'm adding roots currently (my system predates conf auxtrees. but context doesn't like such local texmfcnf settings, so sometimes one has to reset texmfcnf ;.).

@UlrikeFischer , please let me interject. Folks who dare \you-know take more time to think than i. And i'm one those folks. But i don't. Hello!

You make perfect sense and i wish i knew the solution.

Someone does.

That's a taunt.

@Joseph and @Ulrike, you are lucky i'm on your side(s). Battle for good!

When i'm not online i'm onstreet. For good.

That got sidetracked. Again, you have not met a \TeX master as i. Let me boast.

I make pictures beyond description with TeX, just because i can.

@UlrikeFischer OK, setting up a texmf.cnf file 'manually' gets the tests to pass: I'll integrate

I'm trying to post one of the most beautiful pictures ever. But the system is stymeying me. Perhaps for the better. Stay tuned.

Sorry, it ain't working. I'm gonna take a spell and come back with all barrels blasting.

Bye for now.

@Skillmon Horrifying :):):)

@UlrikeFischer OK, I have a plan for texmf.cnf support, just need to sort out the doc target (not currently working for me)

@JosephWright no problem. I think I missed one file anyway ... I'm just trying to create a central table with all the files and saw the error ;-(.Did anyone run the latex tests? did they work apart the one problem? @DavidCarlisle

@UlrikeFischer Here, I get all tests passing (which is what I was after): I have a locally-modified l3build to deal with texmf.cnf. Just sorting out an interface for the new functionality there.

@CarLaTeX you tell me? I had to eat that :)

@UlrikeFischer running the main 2e base tests now, I'm not sure they were all passing before actually, but I'll see what happens... (actually I may wait and then updated l3build and latex2e first if @JosephWright says I should:-)

@Skillmon You have all my compassion :):):)

@CarLaTeX at least @Skillmon good look forward to telling you all about it, which probably gave the meal some enjoyment.

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright I'm looking at the additional stuff in the folder. There is a preprocessor which allows definitions like \def\TestTwo#some{test two: #some\par}. Interesting but imho unrelated to the fontloader. Do you think it would be a problem if I drop it?

@UlrikeFischer what is it testing (it could be converted to a normal l3build test file if it is testing something useful, I found the file but couldn't really see what it is doing)

@DavidCarlisle well as it is the test file is not correct as it loads files with prefix luatex instead of fontloader. It is a test, but is tests a preprocessor which converts \def\TestTwo#some{test two: #some\par} to \def\TestTwo#1{test two: #1\par} and then pass it to luatex. Something to allow "named arguments". Nice but not font related. If someone is interested he can get the code from the context folder. I dropped it. Now looking at this swiglib stuff.

@UlrikeFischer oh I was trying to work out what the font connection was:-), I could see it's messing with delimeted arguments. Dropping it looks good to me

@DavidCarlisle not enjoyment, but me the strength to gobble it all down.

@DavidCarlisle ;-). Imho this swiglib stuff isn't font related either (and again not completly functional after the renaming anyway). Dropped too.

@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright latex2e/base l3build check passed except for three expected errors due to extra callbacks in 1.09

  Check failed with difference files
  - ../build/test/tlb-callbacks-001.luatex.diff
  - ../build/test/tlb-extraprimitives-001.luatex.diff
  - ../build/test/tlb-ltluatex-001.luatex.diff

@UlrikeFischer I see that luaotfload documentation needs one font not in TL ... other than that, I'm close to having everything right

@DavidCarlisle Yes, sure: to be expected

@DavidCarlisle Do you like the new l3build date-line normalisation?

@DavidCarlisle a bit surprising. I would have expected at least one failure due an additional (font) after a kern or something like this ;-). Btw I add this to one of my test to be sure to use the correct fontloader on travis:

\begin{luacode}
texio.write_nl(luaotfload.version .. " with " .. string.gsub(tostring(config.luaotfload.run.fontloader),"[%-]","xxx"))
\end{luacode}

@JosephWright which one? It compiled here, so I didn't really look.

@UlrikeFischer Liberation Mono

@JosephWright I will try to replace it. Btw did anyone look at the nice graphic in the docu ;-) @DavidCarlisle

@UlrikeFischer I'll take a look shortly

@JosephWright yes

@UlrikeFischer the log files in the test area say things like Lua module: luaotfload-main 2018/09/21 2.90001 OpenType layout system. which looks a plausible date?

@DavidCarlisle yes, (I don't know why the old version was 2.80001 and so didn't dare to use 2.9). Does the log also say something like:

luaotfload | init : Loading fontloader “fontloader-2018-09-19.lua” from kpse

This is LuaTeX, Version 1.09.0 (TeX Live 2019/dev)  (format=latex 2018.9.22)  20 MAY 2016 10:00
 restricted system commands enabled.
**\input sx172785.lvt
Lua module: luaotfload-main 2018/09/21 2.90001 OpenType layout system.
Lua module: lualibs 2018-09-21 2.6 ConTeXt Lua standard libraries.
Lua module: lualibs-extended 2018-09-21 2.6 ConTeXt Lua libraries -- extended collection.
luaotfload | conf : Root cache directory is /usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-var/luatex-cache/generic/names.
luaotfload | init : Loading fontloader “fontloader-2018-09-19.lua” from kpse-resolved path “/home/luaotfload…

@UlrikeFischer ^^

@DavidCarlisle looks good, lualibs is new too.

@UlrikeFischer as you said, you put them in your luaotfload repository texmf :-)

@UlrikeFischer oh why does the top line say 20 MAY 2016 hmmm

@UlrikeFischer Pull request in :)

@UlrikeFischer Do you want support for 'two READMEs'? Might need to discuss a bit more widely

@JosephWright I would like the readme on github to be different than the one sent to ctan. Then I could e.g. write about development on github. Currently I'm hiding the ctan one in the doc folder. But if one is not careful the wrong one get sent to ctan ...

@JosephWright we don't use the forced epoch stuff when building the test formats do we?

@JosephWright I will pull later. We are going to the theater in a few minutes.

@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright yes I have same in several other packages (eg all the tkz- ones I updated the other day, there I left the CTAN one as README and the GH one as README.md but I wasn't building with l3build... (no tests and no typeset documentaion so just zip...)

@JosephWright I just updated l3build but now install fails:

support/texlive.sh          |   5 +-
 testfiles-pdf/00-test-2.pvt |  15 ++
 testfiles-pdf/00-test-2.tpf | 107 ++++++++++++
 23 files changed, 1037 insertions(+), 504 deletions(-)
 create mode 100644 config-pdf.lua
 create mode 100644 testfiles-pdf/00-test-2.pvt
 create mode 100644 testfiles-pdf/00-test-2.tpf
Current branch master is up to date.

davidc@dc-bantham /home/l3build
$ l3build install
/usr/local/texlive/2018/bin/x86_64-cygwin/l3build:49: bad argument #1 to 'require' (string expected, got nil)

@JosephWright texlua l3build.lua install gets things back on track

@DavidCarlisle Are you telling me there's no enjoyment in eating pineapple pizza otherwise? Finally you do agree with me!

@CarLaTeX ham and pineapple is good but sausage and ketchup pizza sounds like something to leave for the Italians, I don't think the refined English taste-buds could cope.

@DavidCarlisle Yes: l3build itself needs to be done 'manually', the script-based approach doens't allow it to 'self-install'

@DavidCarlisle No: we dropped that for docs, but have it for tests

@UlrikeFischer @DavidCarlisle I'll get something in for that, then do a release: later today if I can

@JosephWright Ok thanks save me searching for it:-) I assume that accounts for the 2016 date.

@DavidCarlisle Italians do not put ketchup on pizzas! :P

@DavidCarlisle Exactly

@DavidCarlisle Thoughts of an interface?

How does texdoc determine which PDF viewer it should use?

@Skillmon Using the configuration files or the environment variable PDFVIEWER, if set, or PDFVIEWER_texdoc, if set.

@Skillmon VVVVV

@Skillmon The order is PDFVIEWER_texdoc, PDFVIEWER, configuration files.

@egreg thank you very much!

@egreg and have a (most certainly rep-capped) upvote on that answer :)

@Skillmon Not yet: Saturdays are slow days.

@egreg and now?

@Skillmon Still three missing. :-)

@egreg I miss 18 today :( I think I was rep-capped only twice or so.

@Skillmon :-P

@JosephWright depends if you just want to say something like lua README=readme-ctan.md if it's just readme, or if we want a more general aliasing mechanism (but just doing a specific readme variable initially is probably OK)

@Skillmon According to a query on Data.SE, I've been repcapped 2544 times in 2733 days. :-D (The last seven days are missing). That's a ratio of 93%. The second in the list has a ratio of about 47%.

@DavidCarlisle Yeah ... I was thinking of mapfilenames if generic or ctanreadme if more focussed

@Skillmon Well, reading the data more carefully it's 2466/2733, 90%. The other figure is the number of days with rep >=200. For the second it's a mere 41%

@JosephWright I'd just do readme, for any other files there's not a compelling reason to give them different names in a source repository

@Skillmon 1782/2733 for repcap gained with posts in the prior 30 days.

@egreg how can @DavidCarlisle be repcapped so seldom?

@Skillmon been too busy to get 200 every day this year:-)

@DavidCarlisle but don't you get regular votes on old answers?

@Skillmon some of them are down though

@DavidCarlisle Did cross my mind

@DavidCarlisle you get downvotes? Examples?

@Skillmon quite a few recently actually:-)

@Skillmon got one the other day for this answer from 2012:-) tex.stackexchange.com/questions/127876/…

@DavidCarlisle So readmefile? ctanreadme? ``readme? Does it have to be listed intextfiles`, and if so which name?

@DavidCarlisle I'm shocked. Maybe because of the second part of that answer (one could interpret it being somewhat rude).

@marmot I don't really get what you want to tell me with the second half of this comment: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/452005/…

@Skillmon As I said, my feeling is that there are two important steps (none of them is a big deal) and I honestly do not like that you criticize me for a flaw, which I clearly described in the earlier version, but do not acknowledge that the first step is from my answer. Criticism is fine, but then please do not present in a way that one gets the feeling you did everything alone and I only had a "flaw".

@Skillmon yes I'd probably use a different wording now, I just think it funny that people downvote years old answers with no comment (I've had several in last few weeks)

@marmot I did not look at your answer at all when I wrote mine as when I first looked at the question there was no answer of yours. I'm sorry that you got the impression that I stole any of your intellectual property. I also removed my comments. If you want I can delete my answer as it doesn't add anything now.

@marmot When I posted my answer I saw that there was already an answer back then, took a quick look at it, saw that it was generating the labels every time based on a counter value and therefore posted my answer with the "Different proposition:" added in front of it.

@Skillmon Your answer is clearly better than mine, and I do not suspect you stealing. (Just for the records, I wrote my updated answer before I saw yours, but posted it after I saw it.) Please do not delete your nice answer! (Generally, I do not know what to do if I write an answer, and when I am ready to post it, there is a comment which already has an ingredient of my answer in it. I usually mention the comment with something like "As pointed out by ....", which gives credit to the commenter.)

@JosephWright I guess that you list the source file name in textfiles, and then separately have readmefile=ctanreadme.md or whatever, which means that it gets copied as README.md

@Skillmon There is absolutely no reason to fight. And I removed my comments, too. Please do not remove your nice answer, it is clearly better than mine, and I upvoted it as soon as I saw it.

@marmot what do you suggest I should add to my answer then? How about something like: "Taking a similar approach as @marmot by injecting labelling code into the \AtBeginSubsection the following does so with a boolean switch to automatically label only a single subsection."

@DavidCarlisle I'll try it out and see how it 'feels'

@Skillmon Just leave it as it is, please.

@marmot And I had no intention to fight, I just wanted to make clear how this misleading wording came into existence :)

@Skillmon I know that. (I guess that there are always some strange emotions if two similar answers appear within seconds, especially when one forgets to look at the crystal ball ;-)

@marmot the crystal ball meme is spreading I guess. Unfortunately I haven't encountered any opportunity to use it, but my crystal ball keeps telling me it'll be soon.

@Skillmon Yes, the problem is that someone borrowing it forgot to return it to me. Do you by chance know where it is? For obvious reasons, I cannot use my crystal ball to find out where it is. :-(

@marmot I can lend you mine, I found it in the trench along the way here. Now that I think of it, it resembles yours. Here, take it back!

@Skillmon Could you use yours to find out where mine is? I think yours may not fit into our burrow (and my fellow marmots are already complaining that my laptop takes too much space. ;-)

@marmot ^^^^ a marmot on the cathedral of chur, around 1200 ...

@UlrikeFischer Not a sheep?

@JosephWright no they are saying it is a marmot: download.burgenverein-untervaz.ch/downloads/dorfgeschichte/…

@JosephWright There is no sheep among the tikzlings, so how would they possibly have gotten one?

@UlrikeFischer So they do :)

@UlrikeFischer Weird URL with spaces in it!

@marmot Silly me

@JosephWright Maybe you can help them with l3draw?

@marmot :)

@JosephWright I just hope you do not do the same as the evil prince in this story... ;-)

@JosephWright not my fault ;-).

@UlrikeFischer Is that your application to join the team (@DavidCarlisle) ;)

@marmot Nice proof! Nobody will dare to disproof it!

@samcarter Yes, isn't it? Unfortunately I am already too old for the Fields medal. ;-)

@marmot There us still hope for the tikzducks, they recently celebrated their first birthday. So they have plenty of time to get it :)

@samcarter Yes, that sounds good. After all they also provide the proof. ;-)

@JosephWright no, that was taking over luaotfload:-)

@DavidCarlisle The two together ....

@DavidCarlisle We should talk to FMi ;)

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright ^^^^ my husband's comment on the topic "team" ;-)

@UlrikeFischer Did your husband learn making such comments from our chat? ;-)

@marmot he was born with the ability ;-)

@UlrikeFischer I see. I guess he would be a really cool addition to our chat here. ;-)

@UlrikeFischer I am always impressed by such artwork. They had to do it without TikZ.

@marmot we found it in a church in Bergamo.

@UlrikeFischer As I said, most likely from the pre-TikZ age. Perhaps iron age?

@marmot they certainly use a lot of iron

@UlrikeFischer Seems all consistent. Stone age, bronze age, iron age, TikZ age. Am I missing something?

@UlrikeFischer some people have escaped

@DavidCarlisle nobody escapes the spanish inquisition ;-)