TeX, LaTeX and Friends

12:34 AM

@Sebastiano -- the original edition of this book was published in 1965 by academic press. it was almost certainly set with metal type. the present edition is published by dover. when dover publioshes a new edition of a book originally published by one of the traditional "major technical publishers", they almost always use the existing copy and patch in updates. so it will be very difficult to match the fonts used.

Sebastiano

6:57 AM

@barbarabeeton Hi, I have understood. I remove my question. Thanks

@DavidCarlisle Hi Sir David I will delete my question.

Joseph Wright

@Sebastiano I see you've knighted @DavidCarlisle :)

Sebastiano

@JosephWright Yes of course :-)-Some time ago when I was writing Dear David he told me and I remember very well writing Sir

@TeXnician Good morning and welcome into chat

TeXnician

@Sebastiano Good morning.

David Carlisle

8:02 AM

@Sebastiano up to you, I didn't say you should delete, I just said I wouldn't answer it.

@JosephWright don't you think that would be a good idea?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

Paulo Cereda

8:18 AM

Microsoft officials have been talking to GitHub about possibly acquiring the company, according to a June 1 report in Business Insider. BI claims that the two have discussed the possibility of an acquisition on an on-and-off-again basis over the years "but in the last few weeks talks have grown more serious." BI is citing unnamed "people close to the companies" as its sources. "This isn't as surprising as it would have been ten or more years ago," writes The Welcome Rain. "Microsoft is investing a lot in git, including GVFS, a Git Virtual File System to help Git work with very large codebas…

Uh-oh.

TeXnician

@PauloCereda GitLab to the open-source rescue ;)

David Carlisle

@TeXnician github has never been open source, I can't see it necessarily makes any difference if commercially it's owned by one big company or another even bigger one.

@PauloCereda stackexchange next

@PauloCereda all the interweb gossip talks of acquisitions and buyouts except the register which suggests a git merge :-) theregister.co.uk/2018/06/02/microsoft_github

TeXnician

@DavidCarlisle I meant more for the open-source projects. I know that GH is proprietary. But let's say the bigger the company the more problems might occur (speaking of this specific company).

David Carlisle

@TeXnician If problems occur repos can be hosted somewhere else, but I would not do that just because of an ownership change that's just following some historic bias against one company

TeXnician

@DavidCarlisle Not yet ;)

Paulo Cereda

8:32 AM

@TeXnician Indeed :)

@DavidCarlisle ooh :)

MICROSOFT GIT

@marmot: mr. marmot, when you have some time, can I ask you about Asymptote?

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/bharry/2017/05/24/…

@PauloCereda makes handling latex merge conflicts seem not so bad "large merges across branches (10,000’s of changes with 1,000’s of conflicts). " :-)

John Dorian

@PauloCereda Which vim-plugin for TeX do you use?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh :)

@DavidCarlisle amateurs these MS blokes, don't you think. :)

@JohnDorian none. :)

John Dorian

8:49 AM

@PauloCereda interesting :-)

Ulrike Fischer

10:21 AM

4

@CarLaTeX @egreg ^^^ One of the local bears celebrating today's „Festa della Repubblica“ by climbing our fridge. He couldn't get to the Dolomiti in time.

May your new government be wiser than some fear!

CarLaTeX

10:42 AM

@UlrikeFischer Did you see the parachutist with the flag?

@UlrikeFischer At least we have a government, I'm not very confident about its duration :)

Ulrike Fischer

10:55 AM

@CarLaTeX No. Where?

CarLaTeX

11:15 AM

@UlrikeFischer At the ceremony in Rome

leggo.it/italia/cronache/…

Paulo Cereda

12:05 PM

@UlrikeFischer ooh Die Bär

Ulrike Fischer

12:29 PM

@CarLaTeX Bella figura! - as was to be expected ;-) Our celebrations will happen tonight: Ossobucco alla milanese.

CarLaTeX

12:59 PM

@UlrikeFischer Tipical Milanese dish :):):)

barbara beeton

1:36 PM

@DavidCarlisle, @JohnDorian -- would like your opinion of the second comment on this question. it's in response to a comment i made in 2013. i think it's misguided, and could both cause overload problems and not have the intended result. but i'm not able to phrase that cogently or accurately, and am not inclined to experiment. can you help?

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton well the comment is true as written, but it's like saying that carrying a crutch might mitigate the bad effects of shooting yourself in the foot.

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- but wouldn't the whole thing have to be repeated every time that object was invoked? that would require yet another command definition to make it convenient. (or am i missing something simple?)

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton yes but it can make sense, if you have a chapter in an external file already written that uses lots of weird commands you had rather not globally redefine eg because they mess up the bibliography then if editing to change the names seems too hard using \renewcommand locally so it only applies to that one chapter may make sense.

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- okay, thanks. that's reasonable, but it's really a very special case. the comment seems to be saying it's a good thing generally, an opinion with which i heartily disagree. (i'm really rather sick of having to make repairs to long documents because an author has tried to be too "smart".)

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton yes as I say it's better not to do it at all rather than discuss ways to localise the damage.

@barbarabeeton \renewcommand\def{\operatorname{def}} ...

barbara beeton

1:50 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- lovely. just lovely.

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton I have a feeling I've seen a real user do that, but couldn't find a reference just now:-)

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@PauloCereda YAY

@DavidCarlisle YAY

@barbarabeeton Me too. But it's worse when the “clever” author turns out to be myself, a few years ago.

David Carlisle

1:56 PM

@PauloCereda ‮ΥΑΥ

3

@PauloCereda my YAY is more international than yours

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- i think i've seen it too. the \cses that hit us most often are \c, \i, \l and \L. the typesetting system ams was using before tex suffered a similar problem, when the company that created the system changed the code for undotted i to instead produce a subscripted zero. instant havoc in all transliterated russian names. so i've carried the scars for over 40 years.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- i think someone said something about shooting oneself in the foot?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@barbarabeeton I used to do all sorts of crazy stuff in the old days, especially when I thought nobody else would need to work with the source code. For stuff to be published in journals, I used to me more careful, however.

@barbarabeeton LaTeX makes a great foot gun.

barbara beeton

@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- true, though i find word to be even more dangerous, or at least more unforgiving. (i've learned to debug (la)tex; word entirely escapes my comprehension.)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@barbarabeeton Word has mostly been so incomprehensible to me, I rarely try to do anything clever in it. That has saved me much grief, I think.

barbara beeton

@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- unfortunately, i sometimes get given a word document to update. what happens is usually total disaster. the beginning and end of format changes aren't where they are most expected, so unless everything is plain, unformatted text, there goes the better part of a day when i have to try to make repairs.

Paulo Cereda

2:10 PM

@DavidCarlisle oh

David Carlisle

2:22 PM

@JosephWright any reason not to have ''[Things with TeX in their name are](FAQ-texthings)''. rather than ''[Things with TeX in their name are](/FAQ-texthings)''. I just realize (having synced my repo with texfaq) that links don't work in forks that are at project level so one level down.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I'd noticed the same: I see no particular issue with changing it

@DavidCarlisle I'm taking a bit of a break from trying to sort the theme: I might ask Jonas about it. (On siunitx v3 at the moment: really want to get it done)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes I noticed you'd gone quiet this week:-) what was the issue, I just junked my old fork (of tex-faq) and re-forked texfaq and enabled minmal theme it seems to more or less work, apart from no links working

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle The minimal theme works, but I was trying to use minima as it's closest to where I think I want to go ... but it doesn't work :(

David Carlisle

@JosephWright oh an l less, I see:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yup

@DavidCarlisle jekyll.github.io/minima

David Carlisle

2:31 PM

@JosephWright thanks

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Key is it has a simple header.html and footer.html that I imagine altering whilst keeping everything else ... but no matter what I do, it fails

David Carlisle

@JosephWright as you may have seen, I did a couple of passes over the files during the week cleaning up various markup issues, and then a few content things I spotted in passing.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Saw that

@DavidCarlisle Perhaps I should mail Jonas ...

@DavidCarlisle You making the change or should I?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright the links? I can do it as I'm "there" at the moment.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Cool

@DavidCarlisle The Slate theme is not too bad ..

David Carlisle

2:36 PM

@JosephWright does it work? :-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I'll try in a fork: probably yes as it's directly supported by GitHub

David Carlisle

@JosephWright If we plan to fiddle with the header/footer anyway getting something up that is "close enough" may be better then add stuff in a local _includes or whatever to over-ride (can't we?)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that's what I'm hoping: just 'tweaks' on a base style

@DavidCarlisle josephwright.github.io/texfaq.github.io/FAQ-newlang

David Carlisle

@JosephWright we could work from there I think for comparison I have minimal at moment davidcarlisle.github.io/texfaq.github.io/FAQ-newlang

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Just a question of choosing a look then editing the minor stuff we need, e.g. question ID

@DavidCarlisle For most of the standard themes, I think they just have default.html so we edit the 'entire' thing

@DavidCarlisle I think we want most of the screen space for content, hence thinking that the minimal theme isn't quite right ...

David Carlisle

2:52 PM

@JosephWright is the text body any wider in the theme in your fork? doesn't look much different to me?

@JosephWright markdown is so annoying: why isn't Caveat in bold italic:-) in the last section of that page. I suppose it should be ** ...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Maybe not ... I guess we just need to pick something (the 'no theme' set up is a bit tricky, for example it doens't pick up titles from the YAML)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes, I don't mind much we can tweak later, the head section in the theme you have seems very large (and very black) but that could presumably be toned down a bit if you want to start from there rather than from minimal?

Joseph Wright

3:20 PM

@DavidCarlisle All doable, of course: really it's a question of how much effort we want to put in here in terms of appearance

David Carlisle

@JosephWright minimal effort to get basic navigation in place so you can switch it to tex.ac.uk, it can always be restyled at a later date

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yup, that's what I meant

David Carlisle

@JosephWright as i say I don't mind, I'd probably start from minimal (the sidebar only appears on wide screens where the space is otherwise unused) but the slate one is OK as well, if we start from either we can add some faq-specific data (and you want to get back to siunitx:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle OK, we'll go with minimal and I'll fiddle about a bit with adding meta-data/adjusting naming. Then we can ask @StefanKottwitz about redirecting texfaq.org ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright OK, agreed:-)

Joseph Wright

3:36 PM

@DavidCarlisle What do we want for title/description (see github.com/pages-themes/minimal)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright "The TeX FAQ" as title and "English language frequently asked questions on TeX" as description (depends what that looks like in situ, might be too long)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Cool: working on a few layout things now

Joseph Wright

3:51 PM

@DavidCarlisle I've added the title and question ID to the FAQ: other than perhaps linking to the 'About' page from the LHS of the pages, I think we are good-to-go

@DavidCarlisle Time to ask @StefanKottwitz about texfaq.org

All: Feedback on 'new' FAQ set up at texfaq.github.io very welcome (to @DavidCarlisle and me, or on GitHub)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright can we change the "visit my profile" link to a link to the github repo page, the profile page for an organisation level thing isn't so useful

Joseph Wright

Trying out Atom as an editor: it's pretty good, just doesn't have proper DTX highlighting ...

@DavidCarlisle We'll need to copy-and-edit default.html to do that

@DavidCarlisle We need a logo ... @PauloCereda?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright probably we'll need to do that in the end anyway

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I suspect so

David Carlisle

@JosephWright no ducks please!! (@PauloCereda)

Joseph Wright

3:57 PM

@DavidCarlisle Indeed: I do wonder if we should get Jonas to suggest some 'LaTeX team like' feel

David Carlisle

@JosephWright certainly if he's got any suggestions...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle OK: I'll drop him a line

TeXnician

@JosephWright Looks good, but I get a duplicated title on the home page, is that intended?

Joseph Wright

@TeXnician No, fixing it now

David Carlisle

4:18 PM

@JosephWright forget that, it only does the "view my profile" on my fork as it's a user page, on organisation pages it uses

<p class="view"><a href="{{ site.github.repository_url }}">View the Project on GitHub <small>{{ site.github.repository_nwo }}</small></a></p>

Joseph Wright

4:29 PM

@DavidCarlisle Still not exactly what we want ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright no. could copy the file as you said, may be worth doing that anyway, so that we can check the local one over-rides as expected

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Just need to fix the 'index' layout so we don't get the title doubled ...

@DavidCarlisle If we want 'About' to link from somewhere other than the top of the question list, we need a custom layout

@DavidCarlisle We could stick to the vanilla default.html and modify just for individual pages

Joseph Wright

4:44 PM

@DavidCarlisle We could keep the default layout ... would mean we don't have to worry about updating it

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes if we can keep the main layout and force the title index page it would make updates (or switching styles) easier, so just the title, and add a link to about (and contributing?) in the generated list?

@JosephWright I only get the title once on my fork, so there must be a user/organisation switch somewhere, unless you just fixed it?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Should be fixed ...

@DavidCarlisle Something like that, but I do like the idea that every page has an 'About' link (some other themes do that automatically, so it's much of a muchness)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright forced a refresh, fixed now thanks

@JosephWright if we copy the template and add an about link to the sidebar it's not going to be so hard to check for diffs later I suppose, although currently the sidebar links to the index and the index has an about link so it's not too bad

samcarter

5:29 PM

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle The new FAQ websites looks really nice! A small detail could be annoying: If one mouse hovers over a link, it turns bold which changes its width. This can cause a change in line breaks which could be annoying if the mouse is accidentally placed over a link.

Joseph Wright

@samcarter We're currently using a standard theme from GitHub: probably we'll look into a 'custom' look shortly

samcarter

5:46 PM

@JosephWright Ok. Some links are also not clickable, for example on texfaq.github.io/FAQ-hypertex the link to [arXiv.org/hypertex/]. Is this a general problem?

Joseph Wright

@samcarter We've script-converted from the TeX original: some stuff is still being fixed (@DavidCarlisle has sorted a lot)

Alan Munn

@egreg Do you have any suggestions about the best way to get to Siena from N. America? It seems that flying into Florence and then taking a bus is the best, but perhaps you have other choices?

samcarter

Would a list of such link be helpful or are you able to fix them automatically?

David Carlisle

@samcarter that's because markdown is a really stupid markup system

7

@samcarter there, I feel better now.

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle They didn't name it markdown for nothing. :)

samcarter

5:49 PM

@DavidCarlisle I know, I just fought with a beamer/markdown Q on the main site

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I think long-term we need our own files ... I'm going to chat to Frank about things before raising with Jonas

David Carlisle

@samcarter a normal link is [text](http:...) but if you want the link text to be the url you can use the short form [http...] that is you can use the short form unless there is a ? in the second line of the preceding paragraph and there is a y in the month

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Short form is <http...> ...

@samcarter now fixed

samcarter

@JosephWright Great! Thanks a lot!

Joseph Wright

@samcarter List or even better edit on GitHub and request a merge :)

David Carlisle

5:51 PM

@JosephWright you generated [...] so I blame you:-)

2

skull

a y in the month?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright i fixed several of those so grepped for them but the ones I looked at worked anyway

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I think overall things have gone well, and we now can fix stuff (as just shown), which is a good thing :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes I know:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Ah

David Carlisle

5:53 PM

@JosephWright i think it has some heuristics for making things that look like url links even if they are not marked at all

egreg

@AlanMunn Florence and train or bus. If you find Pisa, it's essentially the same and it's easier from the airport to the train station.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Probably

@DavidCarlisle Actually, is texfaq.github.io/FAQ-hypertex really useful today?

Alan Munn

@egreg Thanks. So I I'll look for flights either to Florence or Pisa.

TeXnician

@JosephWright Probably it's not frequently asked about anymore :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright just fixed the remaining ones

@JosephWright I wondered about that, I think probably we do need a "historical interest" section. You can't really "update" that other than write a manual for hyperref

@TeXnician more likely than getting tex distributions for an amiga or TOPS20, about which we also have answers

Joseph Wright

6:07 PM

@DavidCarlisle We can add a 'Historical' category, perhaps omitting it from the standard list, and linking somewhere?

@DavidCarlisle Probably we should link to the change log somewhere ... oh yes, and I should add dates to posts

David Carlisle

@JosephWright did you want your real address in the about section? (Or do you think a real person has more legal weight than some nebulous github group?)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle It's Impressum: legally required for Germany (and we expect to be visible there ...)

@DavidCarlisle e.g. latex-project.org/contact

David Carlisle

@JosephWright never scrolled down that far:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Same info is in by blog ...

@DavidCarlisle I could make a separate page I guess and link from About ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright no it's fine

David Carlisle

6:48 PM

@JosephWright I answered a beamer question:-)

Ulrike Fischer

7:32 PM

@CarLaTeX vvvvvvv

Stefan Kottwitz

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle I made a permanent http(s) redirect from texfaq.org and www.tex.ac.uk, please check

David Carlisle

@StefanKottwitz I get page not secure error for tex.ac.uk

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle for https possibly (cert domain names), check http too

and try with deleted browser history/cache or a different browser

David Carlisle

@StefanKottwitz tex.ac.uk redirects to texfaq.github.io and works

@StefanKottwitz same in ie/edge/chrome/firefox, with wget I get

$ wget tex.ac.uk
--2018-06-02 20:44:02--  tex.ac.uk
Resolving www.tex.ac.uk (www.tex.ac.uk)... 78.46.26.59
Connecting to www.tex.ac.uk (www.tex.ac.uk)|78.46.26.59|:443... connected.
ERROR: The certificate of ‘www.tex.ac.uk’ is not trusted.
ERROR: The certificate of ‘www.tex.ac.uk’ hasn't got a known issuer.
ERROR: The certificate of ‘www.tex.ac.uk’ was signed using an insecure algorithm.
The certificate's owner does not match hostname ‘www.tex.ac.uk’

@StefanKottwitz with http it does:

$ wget tex.ac.uk
--2018-06-02 20:46:21--  tex.ac.uk
Resolving www.tex.ac.uk (www.tex.ac.uk)... 78.46.26.59
Connecting to www.tex.ac.uk (www.tex.ac.uk)|78.46.26.59|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
Location: texfaq.github.io [following]
--2018-06-02 20:46:21--  texfaq.github.io
Resolving texfaq.github.io (texfaq.github.io)... 185.199.111.153, 185.199.110.153, 185.199.109.153, ...
Connecting to texfaq.github.io (texfaq.github.io)|185.199.111.153|:443... connected.

Stefan Kottwitz

hacked github certificate, try now

David Carlisle

7:47 PM

@StefanKottwitz wget happy ...

@StefanKottwitz ... and firefox and chrome work too, thanks!

CarLaTeX

@UlrikeFischer Excellent!

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle my pleasure

David Carlisle

@StefanKottwitz @JosephWright is plan now to tell github pages to serve it as texfaq.org ?

Joseph Wright

@StefanKottwitz Cool: I suspect we need to do something at the GitHub end to make this 'transparent'

@DavidCarlisle I guess so

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle This would be the next step, yes transparent

Joseph Wright

7:52 PM

@StefanKottwitz help.github.com/articles/…

@StefanKottwitz I've added texfaq.org on the GitHub admin page (and probably I should add you as an admin for the 'team')

David Carlisle

@JosephWright gh seems to be moaning about that setting though

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I've backed out the setting: I suspect the redirect confuses it ...

@StefanKottwitz Thanks :) I think a blog post for me today or tomorrow ...

Stefan Kottwitz

@JosephWright sure! I'll send to another comment by mail

Joseph Wright

@StefanKottwitz Great

David Carlisle

@JosephWright do uktug cmttee know about this?

@JosephWright I'm wondering why that final id and tag footer appears on the upstream version but not my fork

Stefan Kottwitz

8:16 PM

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle mail sent

marmot

@PauloCereda Yes, of course, I have plenty of time (but no stable internet) and most likely no clue ;-)

Alan Munn

@marmot Your knowledge of asymptote is asymptotic?

marmot

@AlanMunn Yes, it goes asymptotically to zero (as it cannot become negative;-)

egreg

8:41 PM

@marmot Hello! I saw the Rosengarten today, but met no relative of yours.

@marmot And no invisible dwarf either, but this is almost obvious. ;-)

Sebastiano

@DavidCarlisle I was demoralized and I canceled my question. :-) anyway thanks for everything always.

Good evening to all users into this chat.

Stefan Kottwitz

8:56 PM

@Sebastiano Hi Sebastiano!

marmot

@egreg Let me tell you: no one has ever seen an invisible dwarf. My relatives may be on strike, this is very typical for the Italians ;-)

egreg

@marmot Moreover today was a national holiday.

@marmot I just hope that invisible dwarves are good at dodging motorbikes.

marmot

@egreg Some of them are dangerous: they catch and skin tourists. Better be careful!

egreg

@marmot The road to the Karerpass (passo Costalunga) is between Rosengarten and Latemar, two beautiful mountains. Just past the pass there's the famous Karersee.

3

The mountain is Latemar

marmot

@egreg Really pretty, indeed. I really love that region, but this year I most likely won't make it there. (But two weeks Maroon Lake is also not too bad.)

egreg

9:07 PM

@marmot Seems a nice place!

@marmot On the other hand, Karersee is full of tourists.

marmot

9:24 PM

@egreg Well, in order to be closer to my relatives and further away from the tourists, you need to hike a bit. (Marmots are not really attracted to the sound of motorcycles.... ;-) And when you hike a bit, you will have no internet, and don't get distracted by crazy chats ;-)

David Carlisle

9:40 PM

@samcarter @JosephWright is this better (underline rather than bold on hover) davidcarlisle.github.io/texfaq.github.io/FAQ-startup

yo'

@egreg oh a fractal mountain!

egreg

@yo' You should be able to compute its Hausdorff dimension.

yo'

9:56 PM

@egreg your image has only a finite resolution though

egreg

@yo' Interpolate

yo'

@egreg well, interpolation here would lead HD 1 (or 2 is speaking about 3d)

marmot

@yo' The fact that the image has only some finite resolution does not tell you much about the nature of the mountain. (Yet it is very likely that it is made of atoms, and hence not really fractal.)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Looks good: merge

yo'

@marmot well, even several coast lines had their HD determined

marmot

10:01 PM

@yo' Not really. First of all, these coasts are made of atoms. Second, if you go to very small distances, our usual notion of geometry will break down (and get replaced by something like string theory). So don't trust these computations.

yo'

@marmot Of course, strictly speaking, you cannot measure it. However, you can still tweak the definition and try to look at the "experimental" HD of various coast lines and compare them:

List of fractals by Hausdorff dimension

Benoit Mandelbrot has stated that "A fractal is by definition a set for which the Hausdorff-Besicovitch dimension strictly exceeds the topological dimension." Presented here is a list of fractals ordered by increasing Hausdorff dimension, with the purpose of visualizing what it means for a fractal to have a low or a high dimension. == Deterministic fractals == == Random and natural fractals == == See also == Fractal dimension Hausdorff dimension Scale invariance == Notes and references == == Further reading == Benoît Mandelbrot, The Fractal Geometry of Nature, W. H. Freeman & Co; ...

Stefan Kottwitz

@marmot That's a LaTeX generated fractal mountain:

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Souce: texwelt.de/wissen/fragen/6890/…

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends