TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2018-05-26

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2:32 AM

@cfr Why did you remove your comments? I think they are very useful!

2 hours later…

4:16 AM

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@CarLaTeX ;-)

@marmot I should take it as my new logo, LOL!

@CarLaTeX Naaah. Not nice enough ;-)

4:31 AM

@marmot I can improve it, my duck image behind the weel and my CarLaTeX logo on the side :):):)

@CarLaTeX That sounds good! (I stole the car code from here ..., I guess I could improve it... )

@marmot I thought it was a picture mod image by @DavidCarlisle!

@CarLaTeX No, @DavidCarlisle has a very unique style, just like Pablo Picasso ;-)

@marmot Oooh

4:49 AM

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@CarLaTeX @samcarter @FaheemMitha Oh no, my fellow marmots drank almost all honey liquor!

@marmot Oooh you should have hidden the bottle!

1 hour later…

5:53 AM

@marmot So, now drunk marmots?

@FaheemMitha Yes, and almost no honey liquor :-(

6:39 AM

@marmot @CarLaTeX this car is better tex.stackexchange.com/a/213293/1090

6:55 AM

@DavidCarlisle Much better, of course!

@marmot you get @DavidCarlisle as your TeX Arts teacher?

2 hours later…

9:16 AM

Quack!

9:27 AM

@DavidCarlisle as a feature request it is fine. A column type that lets marks escape reliably from a longtable would be certainly useful in some cases. I'm only saying that the current state is not a bug (this is an axiom anyway;-)): it is neither documented for longtable nor normal for tabulars in general that marks can escape.

@UlrikeFischer GitHub calls these issue databases for a reason ...

@DavidCarlisle Am I OK to flip from the static to a dynamic index for the FAQ? I'll sort tags today, and probably write something for my blog to seek additional volunteers.

9:54 AM

@DavidCarlisle I've got a tag page working, but at present it's not splitting multiple tags: tex-faq.github.io/tags. All solvable ...

@UlrikeFischer: how do you like the style of my new arara manual?

@PauloCereda ? Did I miss something?

@UlrikeFischer Oh I forgot it is still in my repository. :) Sorry!

10:13 AM

@PauloCereda the bird didn't escape yet ;-)

@UlrikeFischer :D

10:58 AM

@PauloCereda Btw: If I run arara on the arara-manual nothing happens. Don't you trust your own software?

@TeXnician Nope. :) I forgot to include the directives. :D

@TeXnician I want to use the manual as a test bed for the project-based configuration file feature. :)

@PauloCereda Ooh, software testing in production?! Do you work for M****t? :D

@TeXnician Of course, I test software in production because what could possibly go wrong :D

@PauloCereda You could have rm -rf / somewhere…

@TeXnician oopsie. :)

@TeXnician Trivia: I remember one day we wrote rm -rf / in this very chat room and all of a sudden lots and lots of moderators from other sites appeared out of thin air and wanted to see what was going on!

11:03 AM

@PauloCereda But of course that would only delete a thesis, a manual and some other invaluable documents :)

@TeXnician @PauloCereda My old boss said "the only actual test is production"

I suspected it was not a manual report, but a SE script who automatically flagged it.

@TeXnician ooh a thesis

@CarLaTeX "I am da baus"

Actually, "like a baus"

@CarLaTeX Oh, I know people who really do so, and as a system administrator I suffered especially from products of an American company…

@TeXnician :);)

@TeXnician I know people who do that too.

11:07 AM

@PauloCereda What is a baus?

11:17 AM

@CarLaTeX ooh it's a wrong spelling of boss. :)

Internet memes. :)

@PauloCereda :)

3 hours later…

2:07 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- why not confuse everyone with "anti-sunwise"?

2:31 PM

@WillRobertson: do you feel lucky? I will take you and the gang for a feijoada. :)

@JosephWright: could you mod-ping Mico? He mentioned about TUG 2018, so I wondering if he will attend. :)

@Mico ^^^

@JosephWright Thank you!

@JosephWright: have fun: youtube.com/watch?v=o4PFDKIc2fs :D

2:49 PM

@PauloCereda :)

@TeXnician products of an American company?

Do tell.

@JosephWright Hi Joseph, Paolo: I'm afraid I can't make it to TUG2018 after all. So sorry. Would have loved to travel there and participate, but I just can't afford is.

@Mico Oh sorry to hear. We all miss you.

@Mico a trip to Brazil is indeed quite expensive nowadays, and also time-consuming.

Thanks, Paolo!

@Mico: I am not sure if talks will be broadcasted live, but if so, please watch us. :)

2:56 PM

@PauloCereda - I'll be sure to follow closely!

@Mico Yay!

3:16 PM

@Mico Mico, did you apply a travel bursery from TUG?? Late applications could probably be considered...

@PauloCereda I want to do as much crazy Brazil stuff as I can!!

@WillRobertson If there is money left ...

3:39 PM

@WillRobertson - No, I didn't even know about the existence of a travel bursary. How and where would I even start to find out about it?

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@samcarter @PauloCereda ^^^

@UlrikeFischer The black knights look a bit evil. Or like Batman :)

Oh lord, I am in trouble with this: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/433445/… Does someone here have one idea how do this?

Stefan Kottwitz

4:03 PM

@Mico Right at the conference page; tug.org/tug2018 deadline June 1st not yet reached

4:23 PM

@Mico If the issue is money, I'm sure its solvable

4:45 PM

@UlrikeFischer 17Knc5-d3 check

probably not the wisest move though...

5:02 PM

@UlrikeFischer Wow! This is fantastic!

@UlrikeFischer I suggest to say "quack" instead of "check" with these chess pieces :)

5:19 PM

@JosephWright - Thanks! I've just posted an inquiry to "bursary@tug.org". I'll keep my fingers crossed.

5:30 PM

@JosephWright yes (maybe you already did that, I've been out all day)

5:54 PM

@DavidCarlisle I guess I should fix the \cr business in siunitx: I think I have a plan, but I'd hoped to hold it for v3

@JosephWright :-)

One of my destinations today: San Leo

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@egreg we went to ducklington

@egreg Cool

@DavidCarlisle I went to Rushden Lakes ...

@DavidCarlisle It's even a real place!

5:56 PM

@DavidCarlisle On the FAQ, I think we are largely there bar the theme business: just need volunteers to check over all of the content, and if possible shift the DNS (@StefanKottwitz)

Ducklington is a village and civil parish on the River Windrush 1 mile (1.6 km) south of Witney in West Oxfordshire. The 2011 Census recorded the parish's population as 1,581. == History == Ducklington is one of the earliest Saxon parishes to be recorded in Oxfordshire. In a charter of AD 958 King Edgar the Peaceful granted at Ducklington to his Minister, Eanulf. The toponym "Ducklington" may originate from "Ducel's Farm" or "the farm of the sons of Docca", but it is locally thought to have originated from the central duck pond, where many ducks and ducklings have lived for centuries. After the...

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@JosephWright

ofyfc.org.uk/news/2018/05/25/…

Anyone know what the executable for Texinfo is called ... ?

@DavidCarlisle Cool

6:09 PM

@JosephWright yes the content review can be ongoing though so main thing is probably the dns, dns lookup says it's registered to "the uk tex archive" but I assume that's cambridge university in some guise?

@DavidCarlisle Yes

@DavidCarlisle Robin 'popped in' to get it to point to @StefanKottwitz's 'lifeboat' server, but I don't know who is actually able to change it

@DavidCarlisle I'm also slightly concerned about the rules Janet have about .ac.uk domains mean that they now can pull them: I'm pretty sure 'we' don't meet the current criteria for getting one

@DavidCarlisle Somewhere I had Kate Jeary's email: I think she's my best bet for getting it sorted

@DavidCarlisle github.com/jekyll/jekyll-redirect-from says you can both redirect from (internal) and redirect to (external): I'm pretty sure we can host latex-project.org directly on GitHub with no issues

Stefan Kottwitz

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle I'm fine with mirroring, rsync, scripting, CMS or tools, a VM with ssh etc. for contributors and also using github as tool, I for myself just keep a bit of a distance to this $2 billion company.

6:29 PM

@JosephWright Was there ever a duke of Ducklington?

@marmot Seems unlikely

7:00 PM

@StefanKottwitz I see your point, and ultimately we could of course stick to another server, but the advantage for GitHub pages is that things are automated and with a good interface

@StefanKottwitz The LaTeX Project site is current a bit of a pain precisely because it's on a separate server, so unless one has a local Jekyll set up you can't actually change the live version ...

Stefan Kottwitz

@JosephWright Moving Usenet and forums to StackExchange, web sites to Github, MiKTeX and TeX Live to the Overleaf cloud, life can become much easier, everything is automated and with a good interface. Just what about technical foundations for the next generation. :-)

@StefanKottwitz Oh, sure, I see that too: in the end I still need to understand HTML to tackle getting Jekyll working properly :)

@StefanKottwitz I've also found a bug in the GitHub Pages set-up (I think)

@StefanKottwitz all of the internet relies on big companies somewhere maintaining the infrastructure, I can't see that github the company having some financial backing is a bad thing

@DavidCarlisle I guess @StefanKottwitz misses the days when it was all universities ...

@DavidCarlisle To some extent, I do too (I mean, what the **** is my employer doing using a Windows-based system to manage our user names, etc.)

@JosephWright in the end the benefits of using a centralised user database outweigh (for someone) the annoyances of any particular operating system.

Stefan Kottwitz

7:09 PM

@JosephWright after some commercial sites changed to hit me with advertisements (even masked as 50% content within content) I don't trust the business so much even if it dresses nicely, sooner or later at the end they have to make profit from users (and not from non-users), directly or indirectly.

@DavidCarlisle Oh sure, but when I started we had a central system too, just it ran a different OS (hence my user name being the sensible c227 not the current bzu15qzu or similar)

@StefanKottwitz Of course: with the dev sites, the open source support is all about advertising for closed-source commercial work. Handily for me, I don't do any of that at all :)

@StefanKottwitz There is a reason I pay for my own blog hosting ...

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle Backing is good. Just the venture capital investors want their money back plus profit later ;-)

@StefanKottwitz but for most users, most of the time, a free service hosted by a big organisation with a slight danger that they try to commercialise it in future, is better than a free service offered by some volunteer who may stop tomorrow.

@StefanKottwitz You can get ads either way (see the LaTeX Project site ...)

@StefanKottwitz Of course, those ads are supporting my trip to Brazil ...

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle Just talking, so in 20 years I can scroll back to here :-)

7:16 PM

@StefanKottwitz Fingers-crossed

@StefanKottwitz Git at least is better than say SVN: looking over the FAQ, a few dead links were to SVN repos that there is no hope of getting data from anymore

@StefanKottwitz if you can do that it will because https://chat.stackexchange.com is being actively maintained and the site is still live, see the problems we are having with https://www.tex.ac.uk which was offered as some undocumented non commercial arrangement with no long term backing

@DavidCarlisle To be fair, it was a different era

@DavidCarlisle I can't imagine any university lettings us bung a server on their network today ...

@JosephWright I'm not sure, many ctan mirrors seem to be hosted on university sites

@DavidCarlisle Slightly different: they are mirrors presumably run today by IT staff, not entirely independent PCs run by a single employee in his spare time ...

@JosephWright I wouldn't rely on that assumption:-)

7:22 PM

@DavidCarlisle At least in the UK: might have existing machines, but wouldn't get a new one in

@JosephWright meanwhile yesterday I deleted the dangerously obsolete text from those two answers, now I have to add some text to update them...

@DavidCarlisle The fixltx2e ones?

@DavidCarlisle Oh, the MathML ones

@JosephWright no mathml and latex2html ones

@DavidCarlisle Just worked that out :)

@marmot A Ducke of Ducklington.

7:33 PM

@DavidCarlisle I'm wondering about ConTeXt: is MkII even worth mentioning ...

@JosephWright only in passing I would assume.

@DavidCarlisle Indeed

@DavidCarlisle I'll probably trim more of the text out

@DavidCarlisle The lollipop answer should almost certainly go ...

faq-why-inp-font needs an update too:-)

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle No problem, certificate and HTTPS done, now try https://www.tex.ac.uk/ (http is now redirected to encrypted https)

@DavidCarlisle Very true

@DavidCarlisle I wonder about the accented chars in the source: probably we could assume UTF-8 and swap them out ...

7:38 PM

@StefanKottwitz yes that's what it points to now, but can we make it point to tex-faq.github.io instead (once that site is ready)

@JosephWright I was going to ask about that as well, just using the utf-8 directory is more the markdown way I guess

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle ok, I thought it was about HTTPS since you mentioned an https URL that did work before

@DavidCarlisle Exactly, though it does depend on the char (I like using  , … or similar, but for just letters it's odd)

Stefan Kottwitz

Anyway, now it's HTTPS, cannot be bad :-)

@StefanKottwitz Sure

@StefanKottwitz no the point is just that the tex.ac.uk domain registration is with cambridge university

@StefanKottwitz I just changed hundreds of the outgoing links in the faq from http to https in the last few days:-)

Stefan Kottwitz

7:41 PM

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I just looked at the s in https://www.tex.ac.uk above

@JosephWright yes so just replace the existing one on a case by case basis...

@DavidCarlisle Probably: I might do the accented-char ones (they seem a bit daft)

@DavidCarlisle They are not that important, anyway

@DavidCarlisle, @StefanKottwitz I was wondering if we should talk to Jonas about design: he did a great job on the LaTeX site ...

@DavidCarlisle I assume you'll take that one?

Stefan Kottwitz

@JosephWright Why not! Btw. I guess you know he is from Hamburg too. We shared a car when we traveled to the Hackers camp in the Netherlands 2017.

@JosephWright Ok

@StefanKottwitz I didn't know that, or at least it wasn't top in my mind

@StefanKottwitz I'm trying to work out some pretty basic stuff, like should the categories be a list, or a 'word cloud', where should the 'IDs' go, etc.

7:46 PM

@JosephWright make sure that github hosting is part of the project spec though:-)

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle And ensure there will be a SSL certificate (especially now users browsers will learn and cache it as https URL)

@DavidCarlisle I was thinking something along the lines of getting the basics done and then saying 'are there any things we could tweak'

@StefanKottwitz That's true

@JosephWright yes

@DavidCarlisle Also wondered about something which echos the LaTeX design (or elements thereof), to give a sense of 'related but not identical'

@StefanKottwitz should be doable within the current setup blog.github.com/2018-05-01-github-pages-custom-domains-https

7:51 PM

@DavidCarlisle Well the DNS record is: the registration is with JANET, and I've no idea who actually gets the contact

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle SSL certificate domain authentication is via DNS records too

@StefanKottwitz yes we need to get hold of that otherwise we can't move anything anyway...

Stefan Kottwitz

8:16 PM

@DavidCarlisle texfaq.org redirects to https://www.tex.ac.uk. It could be made the other way round if the .ac.uk restrictions are unclear in the long term. That allows DNS changes, github, SSL cert etc.

@StefanKottwitz That might be a good name if we can't get anywhere ...

@StefanKottwitz I'm trying to find out who at Cambridge is in charge of things ... problem might be they won't really want to deal with some random chap off the internet!

Stefan Kottwitz

@JosephWright Permanently redirecting www.tex.ac.uk to texfaq.org can be made without waking up a chap off Cambridge.

@StefanKottwitz True

@StefanKottwitz Might be a good plan

@JosephWright looking at inputenc one it was tex.ac.uk/FAQ-why-inp-font.html but the FAQ-why-inp-font.md has no yaml frontmatter so isn't currently reachable (along with 50 or so others) is that part of an intentional deprecation or have they been dropped in conversion?

@DavidCarlisle Ah, I think I know where the issue is ... give me five minutes

@DavidCarlisle Maybe a few more than five ...

8:35 PM

@JosephWright no rush:-)

8:46 PM

@DavidCarlisle Cleanup done, just need to add categories

@JosephWright I blame you for getting me in to this, the inputenc question links to tex.ac.uk/FAQ-t1enc.html which is, as far as I can see, completely wrong:(

@JosephWright you missed one question:-)

$ grep -L 'permalink:' *.md
about.md
AUTHORS.md
CHANGELOG.md
FAQ-dec_comma.md
historical.md
LICENSE.md
README.md

@JosephWright although why just that one question has _ in its filename I can't guess

@DavidCarlisle I'll change the file name there

@JosephWright I think I want to change the t1enc answer to just say that \usepackage{t1enc} is equivalent to \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}, just kept for compatibility with old documentation, but I'm not sure that's really worth a question

9:05 PM

@DavidCarlisle Drop it entirely (there's no historical data here to retain)

@JosephWright yes that's what I was thinking, so can I make that url go to the generic inputenc and fontenc question (where I could mention t1enc in passing "don't use t1enc")

@DavidCarlisle Yes, sounds good

@DavidCarlisle We can also use the redirect_to: key in some cases: leave a stub that points back to the index

@DavidCarlisle Hopefully the cleanup is now sorted properly

9:25 PM

@JosephWright tex-faq.github.io/FAQ-t1enc.md doesn't work, did I get the redirect line in FAQ-why-inp-font.md wrong? (more generally could you give me admin access so I can see the jekyll build log under settings?)

@DavidCarlisle You can see the Jekyll log???

@JosephWright you can, I can't

@JosephWright under settings gh pages, it's either green and says the site is published, or it is red with a link to the error message (can't remember if it's full log) but you need admin access to see anything under settings

@DavidCarlisle Ah: I'd only noticed the icons, not any useful outcomes

@JosephWright I broke it quite often when I was experimenting in my fork so I found that quite useful:-)

@DavidCarlisle It redirects from the permalink and .html version, but not from .md

@DavidCarlisle That does sound handy ...

@DavidCarlisle Oh, the stuff that you get emailed ... I thought it was a fuller log

9:32 PM

@JosephWright yes but I don't get the email either (thanks for changing my status:-)

@DavidCarlisle Ah: I just assumed that the committer got the mail

@JosephWright I hadn't noticed .md in the link: the link to t1enc.md stays as .md now I have deleted that file so it didn't drop the .md so didn't redirect. So it's not an issue I'm going to update the text not to have the link anyway. (but something to be aware of when deleting questions, internal links from other questions will need updating)

@DavidCarlisle Ah: I need to clean that up in the questions I'd missed

@JosephWright just saw the layouts email (I'd need to re-read the docs to see what they mean, but it's working now?)

@DavidCarlisle Not yet

10:18 PM

@naphaneal You can find the pdf with full game here github.com/u-fischer/lua-font-pond/blob/master/latex/… (the code is there too). I don't remember where I got the game from, I simply reused an old example of the xskak docu.

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