TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2018-05-25

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2:30 AM

@StefanKottwitz @PauloCereda Thank you very much for your efforts to update texdoc.net!

4

3 hours later…

WeavingBird1917

5:10 AM

Are there any note-taking software which allows us to take notes normally, while using LATEX to format equations/chem stuff? I find the default editor slow, not from writing maths, but from formatting text. I actually like the text entry for stack exchange, because allows you to write and format text normally, then specify LATEX equations with $$. Is there any software like that?

@WeavingBird1917 Have a look at typora.

5:35 AM

+1, I'm surprised but I love Typora as well. I didn't expect to like a WYSIWYG editor (and non-open-source too), but the combination of seeing (only) rendered output when typing, but having the document in a non-binary (text-only) format (that can be later converted to TeX or whatever), is really a surprisingly pleasant experience and induces me to write more.

6:15 AM

does anyone here know of a project that does intelligent word to latex conversion? like takes note of fonts being switched and other formatting?

WeavingBird1917

6:27 AM

Thanks for the suggesting Typora. I downloaded it, and that's exactly what I was looking for! Would be nice if it was easier to change the font settings and line spacing within the editor. Perhaps there's a way.

2 hours later…

8:32 AM

@DavidCarlisle I've been looking at the permalinks for the FAQ. If you actually look around, more-or-less no-one is actually linking to the FAQ in a particularly consistent way. I wonder about making terminated before the extension so they are e.g. <site>/FAQ-latex/ or <site>/FAQ-latex rather than <site>/FAQ-latex.html: most big sites don't bother with the extension nowadays

@JosephWright certainly the canonical URL should have no extension, it would be nice if .html still worked as with the default gh pages setup

@DavidCarlisle Let me try

8:49 AM

@JosephWright as far as I know I have cleared all the broken links, mostly by fixing them, in a few cases I just deleted the offending text. There are 10 or so unchecked (as the sites ban crawlers and the link checker honours that request) I checked a few of those by hand, so I'm done. I'll probably write something about mathjax/etc over the weekend

@DavidCarlisle Cool

@DavidCarlisle I suspect quite a few will vanish as the questions get revised

@JosephWright I was going to suggest re-arranging the authors but I see you just did:-)

@DavidCarlisle I hope my revisions thus-far are OK: I think we could do to summarise some topics a bit more (and I do think drop or at least hide quite a lot of the older material)

@DavidCarlisle tex-faq.github.io/FAQ-catalogue and tex-faq.github.io/FAQ-catalogue.html working with the former as the permalink

@JosephWright :I might push some queries to ctan re the catalog, the original faq mostly used direct links to files in tex-archive/... ctan asked ages ago that we use the ctan.org/pkg scheme but it's a bit hit and miss whether latex packages in larger bundles have their own entry so you can go [ifthen](https://ctan.org/pkg/ifthen) but need [flafter](https://ctan.org/pkg/latex-base) quite a few of the broken links were because an earlier normalisation to pkg/foo had got this wrong.

@HenriMenke Credit goes entirely to @StefanKottwitz, I did nothing.

9:01 AM

@JosephWright good! It just worked on its own, or you set something up?

@PauloCereda as expected!

@DavidCarlisle Changed the permalinks, everything else just worked

@DavidCarlisle Good plan

@PauloCereda I wonder if you'll also get credit for the FAQ work :)

@DavidCarlisle Just had a mail from GitHub about theme support: I was right in that the one I wanted to use is AWOL!

@JosephWright trust you to pick a broken one:-)

@JosephWright I did nothing for that as well. :)

1 min ago, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda as expected!

@DavidCarlisle I suspect we should cut down on the sections, re-working as categories with broader brush names. Probably we can then split up the material into separate pages, or at least have a lead-off list of the categories themselves

9:03 AM

@JosephWright: I realized that I have to work on the arara manual as fast as I can if I want to release it before TUG2018!

@DavidCarlisle /sob

@PauloCereda :)

@DavidCarlisle I'll probably re-activate it in my fork so the GitHub staff can see the problem ...

@JosephWright spooky!

@JosephWright yes I think sections were only used in the table of contents document so can be reshuffled without breaking anything

@PauloCereda Could you write an FAQ on build systems? You probably know about them, and it would be a useful addition

@JosephWright Of course!

9:05 AM

@DavidCarlisle Exactly: with 400+ questions most of it will be automated, then a bit of tidying up for the cases that don't neatly fit in. I need to work out some mappings: I think no more than about 10 categories

@PauloCereda hint: C-c C-c and then your editor will suggest the next command to apply

@DavidCarlisle Redirects seem to work fine: I can only imagine that the Gnats database is the issue for the LaTeX Project site ...

@DavidCarlisle oh

@JosephWright they are all of the form https://www.latex-project.org/cgi-bin/ltxbugs2html?pr= so I think if you made a gh page at https://www.latex-project.org/cgi-bin/ltxbugs2html with a meta-refresh style http redirect to the old site (under its real dns name) then it would work well enough in practice, I might try later...

@DavidCarlisle Yes, did occur to me that it is workable: we just need to convince some other people

9:18 AM

@JosephWright fork the site set it up show it works?

@DavidCarlisle Good plan :)

@DavidCarlisle GitHub is great for this sort of thing, isn't it

@JosephWright we could also release PR5

@JosephWright shame it isn't svn based, but it's OK

@DavidCarlisle I've mailed Robin about the DNS for tex.ac.uk: if he doesn't reply, I guess I'll try the IT support people there

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle True

@DavidCarlisle We've not be inundated with complaints ....

@DavidCarlisle Indeed, the UTF-8 part of the latest plan has in the grand scheme been extremely successful

@JosephWright not surprised about the rollback thing, but actually I'm more surprised about non ascii filenames on the windows commandline hasn't been commented on by more people

@DavidCarlisle In that ???

@DavidCarlisle Ah, right

9:22 AM

@JosephWright being the two PR5 things

@DavidCarlisle Like I say, in the grand scheme we've been very successful: probably there's an FAQ that needs updating to reflect that

@DavidCarlisle Yes, let's get it out

@DavidCarlisle Still no feedback on XeTeX changes ...

@JosephWright I wanted review of the rollback change as the code was a bit weird in places and I added some extra logic that made it weirder

22 mins ago, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda as expected!

@DavidCarlisle I AM FAMOUS

Oh wait

@DavidCarlisle OK, I'll look tomorrow

@DavidCarlisle github.com/latex3/latex3.github.io/blob/master/_config.yml doesn't have the redirect module: that's probably where the issue comes from!

The best part of having TUG2018 in IMPA is that the institute is practically inside the Tijuca forest, and there is a lot of monkeys and araras hanging out in there. So there is a high possibility that a naughty arara keeps making noises during talks. So it's free publicity! :)

3

9:28 AM

@JosephWright as I say I think it's a relatively new addition (to gh not to core jekyll)

@DavidCarlisle I suspect so

@PauloCereda Just beware of one falling in love with the new arara logo you'll surely show there ;)

@TeXnician ooh :D

@TeXnician Also the L3 hummingbird. :)

And oh boy araras are noisy

@PauloCereda You mean that SVG-path monster you keep somewhere on GitHub?

@PauloCereda Just like ducks ;)

@TeXnician LOL exactly

@TeXnician we ducks are very quiet

9:31 AM

@PauloCereda Well, in @DavidCarlisle's favorite duck dish maybe, but otherwise…

@TeXnician oh no

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda Too quiet, sometimes. My wife and I got buzzed by a pair of low flying ducks on the way home from a party last night. (We had been at a party; no idea where the ducks had been.) A bit of early warning would have been welcome.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Oh my!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda Ducks are heavy, and fly fast. It would not be a pleasant collision, for either party.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen :(

9:53 AM

@JosephWright davidcarlisle.github.io/tex-faq.github.io/…

@DavidCarlisle Raise on the team list?

10:18 AM

Anyone here understands how the bookmark generation in hyperref actually works? As far as I can tell it uses one method for book (via bkm-pdftex.def) and another for memoir and I cannot quite get the latter to behave as in the former.

@JosephWright they might ask me to fix those pr

10:57 AM

@DavidCarlisle There is that

You need to defeat Agent Smith. :) (oh my, terrible joke about breaking the Matrix...) Anyway, welcome to TeX.sx! :) — Paulo Cereda 14 secs ago

11:15 AM

Ahh, I also get into trouble with book. Time to make a real question on the site I guess.

2 hours later…

1:03 PM

@marmot Your comment tex.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7705/… made me wonder: Are you an individual marmot or do all marmots share an account? The later would explain, why you can answer so many questions :)

1:24 PM

hahaha, so true

2:01 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen The ducks have been identified:

user image

@samcarter I think we need an aviator cap ^^^

@UlrikeFischer OH NO

@UlrikeFischer :) Looks a bit like targets for bow and arrow

@samcarter Yes I know. That's why I didn't place the Royal Air Force logo on the breast ;-) @PauloCereda

@UlrikeFischer Good thinking!

@UlrikeFischer ooh

2:19 PM

user image

@samcarter perfect ;-)

@samcarter Il señor Biggles

@UlrikeFischer or duckipedia.de/Quack

@samcarter ooooooooh

@UlrikeFischer LOL

@UlrikeFischer one of my favourite MP sketches!

Random question to the TeX developers here: I was talking to someone in another chat, and he said he thought that one of the reasons that TeX SE took off was because before this the developers didn't really have a place to chat with each other. How accurate is that?

I expect @JosephWright to say Lemon curry

2:34 PM

@samcarter I am a very individual marmot. ;-) Most of my fellow marmots are not very interested in LaTeX. That's why I hang out with humans on this site. ;-)

@FaheemMitha AFAIK there's a lot of communication through Usenet and mailing lists, so I don't think this statement holds true.

@PauloCereda But not real-time chat. Like IRC.

@marmot What are your fellow marmots interested in?

@FaheemMitha there was no reason for that, probably.

@marmot and ducks <3

@FaheemMitha Mainly pineapple cake and honey liquor ;-)

@PauloCereda Yes, and ducks. (I was actually very disappointed when I clicked on the video that you recently posted saying "That's me". You didn't look like a duck in it. ;-)

@marmot youtube.com/watch?v=8eeDVfSW2Cc This one features at duck at least :)

2:41 PM

@marmot More marmots should use tex! You should suggest to the great marmot council to include it in the curriculum for all marmots.

@marmot Sounds tasty.

user image

3

@UlrikeFischer Duck plane 1

@samcarter I know. They don't want to listen. ;-)

@FaheemMitha Yes, they are. Very yummy ;-)

My Brazil flights are booked! This is gonna be good

4

@samcarter oooh

@WillRobertson YAY

@WillRobertson When will you arrive?

Don't forget to bring a towel. :D

^^ towel day today

I will be in Rio from Jul 18 onwards. If you guys need any assistance...

2:56 PM

user image

2

@samcarter great ;-)

@samcarter yay!

I HATE THIS GDPR EMAIL SPREE

Today, May 25th is National Wine Day! https://t.co/fGFJ80zLHF

Tweeted by UberFacts on May 25, 2018 at 3:09 PM

@egreg ^^

3:11 PM

@PauloCereda Arriving in Rio on the 16th, in Florianopolis before that and in through São Paulo. A few stops for me to make it a work trip!

@WillRobertson Wow, nice route! Very glad to hear about Floripa. :) My trip is only from SP. :)

3:26 PM

@PauloCereda but you don't live in UE, why do you get them?

@PauloCereda do you want to keep getting mail from me?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@samcarter Nice! But since we're seeing the RAF logo in perspective, shouldn't it be more elliptic? Moreover, since it would be painted on a curved body, it would have a more complicated shape still. Perhaps you should put it on the wing instead?

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Maybe I should ask a question on math.se about the transformation matrix of a duck :)

@DavidCarlisle You mean the latest duck recipes?

@PauloCereda Mine is going to arrive.

3:38 PM

@egreg :)

@CarLaTeX I use some EU services.

@DavidCarlisle hm?

@PauloCereda Just opened and at the right temperature!

@egreg ooh

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@samcarter Good idea!

@PauloCereda sorry the deadline has passed, I have deleted you from my memory

@DavidCarlisle hm?!

3:46 PM

@PauloCereda having deleted you of course I don't know the answer so, I need to ask:

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@PauloCereda everything is different now, isn't it?

@DavidCarlisle nope :)

2 hours later…

5:55 PM

Christopher Robin Official Trailer #2 (2018) Ewan McGregor Winnie the Pooh Disney Movie HD

2 hours later…

7:54 PM

@DavidCarlisle tex-faq.github.io/category

@DavidCarlisle jekyllrb.com/docs/variables suggests one can set the category by dir structure, and have nested ones, but I think something simple might be best

@JosephWright yes starting small is best, so categories work differently to the section/subsection frontmatter you had in your fork?

@DavidCarlisle Not necessarily: I just thought it was better to go with what is 'native' to Jekyll

@JosephWright did you get anywhere with gh support with missing themes (or pick a working one you like?)

@DavidCarlisle They are looking at it :)

@JosephWright so because the source is still a flat structure wa can still use a basic markdown [XeTeX](FAQ-xetex) and don't need any special jekyll link tagging to pick up the permlinks?

8:02 PM

@DavidCarlisle I could just copy all of a theme into our site

@JosephWright or decide simple text on a white background is fine:-)

@JosephWright I have been looking a bit at the latex bug list, and in everyone the description is in one long line. The html code e.g. of tools/4518 says `<pre>
Description of bug:
longtable increments the table counter ....`

@DavidCarlisle Exactly: for pages rather than posts, the Jekyll stuff doesn't really work: as you know the permalink anyway, that's the best way to do it

@UlrikeFischer It's not my fault

@JosephWright good answer

@UlrikeFischer I'll look

@DavidCarlisle That's not the issue: with no theme set, we can't pick up footer.html or whatever. So even if I sort out a theme that is the same as the vanilla set up, we need something with hooks for e.g. breadcrumbs

8:05 PM

@JosephWright -- nice. have poked around and it's looking good. you could use a grammar check though -- spelling check isn't good enough. still working on the items i've promised. probably more tomorrow. (they're rebuiling parts of this building, and they just turned the lights off on me and then left. so i'm about done for the day.)

@UlrikeFischer (@JosephWright) it's @barbarabeeton's fault.

@barbarabeeton Most of its Robin's text :)

@JosephWright -- admittedly, i haven't looked at much of it for probably almost ten years.

@UlrikeFischer So it is: isn't that (?) Alan Jefferies fault (@DavidCarlisle?)

@barbarabeeton That's one of the issues: it's rather drifted

@UlrikeFischer in the beginning... people sent email with hard linebreaks somewhere around column 70 so that they would fit on a punched card, and often had "ascii art" and other semantically important linebreaks. so the ltxbug2html script puts your entire email in a <pre> so line breaks are preserved. The modern microsoft word inspired style is to put each paragraph as a single line and rely on the client to line wrap, but the script still puts everything in a <pre>

@JosephWright I blame Bill gates ^^

8:12 PM

@DavidCarlisle Ah

@DavidCarlisle Either way, we are in the clear

@JosephWright yep

@JosephWright if I wasn't too scared to touch that script we could these days css style <pre> to honour linebreaks in the source but to line wrap at the window size as well

@DavidCarlisle Probably: there's a reason we aren't using Gnats anymore!

@JosephWright well gh issues drop half the formatting when picking up email so it's not that much better

@UlrikeFischer without the <pre> this wouldn't be readable latex-project.org/cgi-bin/ltxbugs2html.new?pr=tools/3785

@DavidCarlisle It's really not meant for heavy email use, I think: they expect most significant stuff to be done on the website. (It is a bit odd that one can't use Markdown in mails)

@DavidCarlisle Well yes, but it makes reading bug descriptions a bit difficult if the lines are running out of the windows ;-)

8:20 PM

@UlrikeFischer I'll see what I can do, but touching a script last seen by human eyes in 1995 or so is a bit scary;-)

@DavidCarlisle I've got sorting working for tex-faq.github.io/category - I think tags are more-or-less the same, just starting from different data. My idea at the moment is to alter the main page to say something like 'Here are the questions in categories: each question appears once. You can also see (some) questions by tag [here]: not all questions are tagged, some have multiple tags'. Does that sound OK?

@JosephWright -- i'm not sure how you've got <pre> set up, but in order to have code blocks behave decently on the ams website, i had to do something "extra". i can send you samples if you're interested. (got the code from someone at mozilla, if i remember correctly.)

@UlrikeFischer adding white-space: pre-wrap; to the pre (or to a css file applying at that point) makes it do the right thing (I just use the firefox inspect element to add it there for testing) I'll see if I can get it added to the build...

@barbarabeeton It's not my fault

8:36 PM

Apr 23 '14 at 12:14, by Paulo Cereda

!!/eightball Should we blame Joseph?

there was a time when @PauloCereda wasn't busy with his thesis and he could maintain a bot to answer such tricky questions

@JosephWright -- wasn't trying to imply that it was. most of these newfangled "tools" are determined to co-opt traditional ways of presenting material in the clearest possible way. they basically say "it's my way or the highway". i'm not real fond of being reprocessed by someone or something that doesn't understand what i'm trying to explain.

@barbarabeeton arguably it's your mail client that is at fault, we don't accept mime email to gnats, it had to be plain text, but a mailer sending plain text is supposed to put the linebreaks in (I think) but many mailers these days really only like sending html mime encoded mail

9:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle I think I have auto-generation just about right, other than needing to shift the titles to YAML eventually ... really need to get the theme sorted so I can get the meta-data in the right places

@barbarabeeton I meant that the set up of the LaTeX website is out of my (and @DavidCarlisle's) control ... we want it on GitHub Pages :)

9:37 PM

@DavidCarlisle I think tex-faq.github.io/category is more-or-less right now, in showing that we can auto-generate the TOC based purely on info in each question

Writing about code that uses \color is very confusing. No 'u' in the commands, 'u' in all the descriptions. :)

@AlanMunn I did that on purpose (not one of my best ideas) but what I didn't do on purpose and actually caused more confusion is it turned out that a lot of americans didn't understand anti-clockwise and I had to explain it was counter-clockwise.

@DavidCarlisle I get the point of it though. Never noticed the anti- vs counter- clockwise distinction. I guess I have both.

@DavidCarlisle Why is the \color switch so complex?

@AlanMunn ?

@DavidCarlisle Well actually not \color itself, but \@declaredcolor.

9:48 PM

@AlanMunn it's not so long is it (xcolor one is a bit longer)

@DavidCarlisle Or just color

\def\@declaredcolor#1{%
  \@ifundefined{\string\color @#1}%
    {\c@lor@error{`#1'}}%
    {\expandafter\let\expandafter\current@color
     \csname\string\color @#1\endcsname
     \set@color}%

@AlanMunn test if the colour is declared, give error if not, otherwise set \current@color to the requested colour and call \set@color to do a driver-specific \special to set the colour. I'm not sure i could have made it much shorter

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that's the one. Now I can't reproduce the problem I was having, and I suspect it was something I did, and nothing to do with the actual \color command. :(

@AlanMunn so not my fault :-)

@DavidCarlisle No, I'm sure it's @JosephWright 's fault.

9:53 PM

@AlanMunn seems reasonable assumption.

@AlanMunn See l3color ;)

@DavidCarlisle Imho tools/2373 can be closed as "not a bug". It is more or a less a side effect (and a small wonder) that the marks escapes the l-cell on the first pages and at the end at all -- it wouldn't work in p-column or normal tabulars.

@UlrikeFischer well I don't know, the fact that they do work in l columns means that for long tables where you want the page head to be affected there is generally a mechanism so long as you have a (possibly extra) l column to take the marks. But not if it sometimes drops them. It's probably possible to "save" marks from p columns in a similar way to the way that longtable lifts footnotes out of p columns. It's been open all this time leaving it open a bit longer can not harm...

10:34 PM

Good Night !, I have a problem with a lot of sidenotes that I need to manage in my document. They are placed after the chapter beginning, so I lost a lot of space, Do have a way to "liberate" all the margin for the sidenotes? (Type them from the header to the bottom, no caring about alignment ? I use the package "sidenotes"

10:53 PM

@Gergian I don't know how, but I am 99.99% sure there is a way to do that.

@G.Bay Sidenotes Package uses both Marginnotes and Marginpar,. Margin notes has an "noadjust" option, but I did not find anything like in the side notes package. :(

@Gergian Have you tried MarginFix ? ctan.org/pkg/marginfix

@G.Bay Hmmm (no!), How can I use this globally ?

@Gergian To be honest I haven't used that either, you will have to read through the user manual and try it.

@G.Bay Ok, I will open an question, maybe someone can answer :). Thank you!

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