TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Canageek

12:13 AM

@egreg It was a joke that I'd just post a paper and ask how to make a graphical abstract for it in TikZ

David Carlisle

@egreg do we have a provides.. must start with a date answer? oh found one of mine that will do

Alan Munn

2:03 AM

Any TikZ experts around?

BFH

5:48 AM

My latex output document produces garbage characters when text is copied. I have tried cmap, fontenc, and inputenc. Any ideas?

wilx

@BFH Use one of the Unicode capable engines?

BFH

I'm using XeLaTex

wilx

@BFH OK, I am out of ideas. :)

BFH

Hmmm. Is there anyone who might be willing to look at my source code?

wilx

@BFH Make a MWE and post on the main site.

BFH

5:52 AM

The MWE is a problem because I have no idea what's causing the garbage text copying

wilx

@BFH Well, does cutting off parts of the document source still make it reproducible?

BFH

I guess I could start taking things out until it doesn't do it anymore. BRB

BFH

6:11 AM

It's due to fontspec

is that a known issue?

Joseph Wright

6:59 AM

@BFH No

BFH

I have further investigated. It's a pdf viewer issue.

Text is garbled in the builtin viewer in Texpad, ligatures don't display in Mac OS Preview, and everything works in Adobe Reader

Both LuaTeX and XeTeX have this problem.

Joseph Wright

@BFH Adobe Reader does tend to be the reference

@BFH For me, with your example I have no issues in Preview, with .log file:

LaTeX2e <2017/01/01> patch level 3
Babel <3.9r> and hyphenation patterns for 83 language(s) loaded.
(/usr/local/texlive/2016/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/book.cls
Document Class: book 2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class
(/usr/local/texlive/2016/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/bk12.clo
File: bk12.clo 2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX file (size option)
)
\c@part=\count79
\c@chapter=\count80
\c@section=\count81
\c@subsection=\count82
\c@subsubsection=\count83
\c@paragraph=\count84
\c@subparagraph=\count85

i.e.

 *File List*
    book.cls    2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class
    bk12.clo    2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX file (size option)
fontspec.sty    2017/02/12 v2.6 Font selection for XeLaTeX and LuaLaTeX
   expl3.sty    2017/02/10 v6878 L3 programming layer (loader)
expl3-code.tex    2017/02/10 v6878 L3 programming layer
l3xdvipdfmx.def
  xparse.sty    2017/02/10 v6878 L3 Experimental document command parser
fontspec-xetex.sty    2017/02/12 v2.6 Font selection for XeLaTeX and LuaLaTeX

BFH

7:15 AM

Huh. I have a question open here: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/357226 My wife says I should go to sleep so I'm turning in for the night.

David Carlisle

7:54 AM

@BFH seems unlikely to be due to fontspec as that just arranges a latex syntax for a primitive font load. the way the font is embedded in the pdf is down to luatex and xdvipdfmx

@BFH is times new roman available in os X ?

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Yes, there is a so named font with the OS

Joseph Wright

8:20 AM

@DavidCarlisle My guess is a font issue

David Carlisle

8:41 AM

@egreg ah I always associated that name with the windows version

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer OH MY

Ulrike Fischer

8:56 AM

@PauloCereda But they got their revenge ;-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle See you've beaten me to it on the xparse question ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright like my idiomatic L3 coding style?

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright a more complete emulation would be possible...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I'm on that: give me about 10 mins

@DavidCarlisle The SVN version of xparse isn't the same as the release one, so I'm just working it back a little

David Carlisle

9:02 AM

@JosephWright yes I noticed that, I was working from installed xparse.sty and decided to give up and look at the dtx comments (some parts I didn't recognise from when I last looked:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Almost done here ...

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright Imho "transition periods" simply don't work. You can add a warning "this software is alpha and will change in two week" and will get complains in the third week. KOMA warned for years that the support for \rm will end, and it didn't work. But perhaps you could add some compat-level info, then people using an experimental feature could add a guard like \xparsewarnifcompatlevelgreater{k-arg}{1}

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer This is broadly true I agree: every time we remove some expl3 code after 18 months of warning I have to do emergency pull requests

@UlrikeFischer Bruno has some ideas to make testing easier in this regard

egreg

9:30 AM

@DavidCarlisle Maybe using expl3 would be better:

\ExplSyntaxOn
\cs_if_exist:NF \__xparse_normalize_type_k:w
 {
  \cs_set_eq:NN \__xparse_normalize_type_k:w \__xparse_normalize_type_e:w
  \cs_set_eq:NN \__patchxparse_IfNoValueTF:n \IfNoValueTF
  \cs_generate_variant:Nn \__patchxparse_IfNoValueTF:n { f }
  \cs_set:Npn \IfNoValueTF #1 { \__patchxparse_IfNoValueTF:f { \tl_head:n { #1 } } }
 }
\ExplSyntaxOff

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright ooh emergency

David Carlisle

@egreg nah, it'll never catch on

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle LOL

David Carlisle

@JosephWright voted:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle meeting is adjourned

David Carlisle

9:39 AM

@PauloCereda we would publish the minutes, but no one understands the typesetting system in use.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

David Carlisle

ooh the site just went away

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle this is good

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Based on Will's mail, we could record the hangouts ...

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Google feature?

David Carlisle

9:47 AM

@PauloCereda you have one hour to finish your thesis

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle this is bad

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda No idea

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I'm not sure that would be a good idea:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle It's not your fault

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda it never is

Joseph Wright

9:48 AM

@DavidCarlisle Oh, indeed

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle This is called proof by tautology. It's not your fault because it is not.

@egreg ^^ ducks are good at proofs. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda wrap that in begin document end document and you may yet meet the 1 hour deadline

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda the site is back, how much did you get done?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle I couldn't even start the editor. :)

egreg

1:14 PM

@PauloCereda It's easy: at the command line type emacs and hit the return key.

David Carlisle

@egreg and leave it running until the thesis is finished

Paulo Cereda

@egreg That might take a while.

[paulo@cambridge ~] $ time vim

real	0m1.109s
user	0m0.420s
sys	0m0.036s
[paulo@cambridge ~] $ time emacs

real	0m17.413s
user	0m5.405s
sys	0m0.357s

egreg

@PauloCereda Doing evil requires less time than doing good.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Exactly! Oh wait.

@egreg: but Evil is an emacs thingy: emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil :)

Ahlqvist

I have a problem that I would appreciate some input on. I am generating connections/wiring diagram for a system where different modules are connected to devices (for example computers to a network switch).

My current approach is to use Tikz to include graphics of the device/module (pdf format), defining nodes and then draw lines (coloured as the cables). It works well, but this will be done automatically and there are loads of different devices so I want to save the nodes for every device/illustration somehow.

Paulo Cereda

1:29 PM

@Ahlqvist IIRC you can define styles in TikZ, so later on in your code you can reference, say, \node[router] ...

David Carlisle

@Ahlqvist a video for you from our own @StefanKottwitz vimeo.com/189442622

Ahlqvist

1:46 PM

Thank you @PauloCereda and @DavidCarlisle, I will look into styles and the video

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda would you say that video was much better than others at the same meeting?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle I would say someone also used the same beamer theme. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda what's beamer?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle some sort of newfangled presentation contraption for people who are too lazy to use PowerPoint.

Fabian Pijcke

2:20 PM

Hello!

Just a quick meta question :p

Can SO badges be removed?

Joseph Wright

@FabianPijcke No

Fabian Pijcke

Okay :p

Because I have a strange bug

Joseph Wright

@FabianPijcke At least, not without action by the staff

Fabian Pijcke

it seems like no one can star my chat messages

3

I even checked the badges

to see if it was some weird GUI bug

David Carlisle

@FabianPijcke look in the list of starred messages....

Fabian Pijcke

2:21 PM

but it looks like it's not the point

Yeah yeah I mean, I can star other's messages

but others cannot star my own messages :/

Joseph Wright

@FabianPijcke I have just starred your earlier message ;)

Fabian Pijcke

well anyway

David Carlisle

@FabianPijcke two people have starred yours: look in the list

Fabian Pijcke

xD

got ya!

Well it wasn't that funny after all ^^'

Paulo Cereda

@FabianPijcke question: you don't seem to hang out in TeX.sx... are you here randomly? :)

Fabian Pijcke

2:24 PM

Kinda :p I know a bit in LaTeX, writing a thesis, having fun looking at questions and pretending I will once be able to answer them like egreg does :p

that is, slacking as I'm tired writing, I'm not the only PhD student doing this, am I? :-(

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ^^ be my guest.

David Carlisle

@FabianPijcke @PauloCereda ^^^^^

Fabian Pijcke

:D

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle knew it. :)

David Carlisle

@FabianPijcke chat.stackexchange.com/…

Fabian Pijcke

2:27 PM

Haha :D :D

daleif

@ChristianHupfer This worked directly in tikz, so I'll just use that

\begin{tikzpicture}
\begin{axis}[
width=12cm,
xmin=-1.2,
xmax=1.2,
ymin=-1.2,
ymax=1.2,
colormap/PuBu,
% colormap/viridis,
domain=-1:1, % x domain = y domain = [-1;1]
]

% important that samples are odd, then we don't hit (0,0)
% we run out of memory if we use samples=91
\addplot3[
surf,line join=round,
samples=81] {2*\x^2*\y/(\x^4+\y^2)};

\end{axis}
\end{tikzpicture}

Christian Hupfer

@JosephWright: \seq_rand_int:N is pretty cool ;-)

@daleif So no more gnuplot ?

Joseph Wright

2:42 PM

@ChristianHupfer Thank Bruno!

@ChristianHupfer Wait for release of xfp ;)

Christian Hupfer

@JosephWright I thought you brought it into expl3

Joseph Wright

@ChristianHupfer Random stuff? Mainly Bruno

Christian Hupfer

@JosephWright @Bruno ... do you hear me? Thank you for basically all random stuff ;-)

Joseph Wright

@ChristianHupfer Let me: @BrunoLeFloch ^^^

Christian Hupfer

@JosephWright My @Bruno was meant as a joke, but if you want to boast with your moderator privileges... do go on :D

@JosephWright And what will I see if I look ~~out of the yard~~ into xfp? @PauloCereda ;-)

Fabian Pijcke

2:50 PM

42.0

Joseph Wright

@ChristianHupfer It's just a one-line interface to the FPU in expl3, so we will have \fpeval available generally

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer :)

Ulrike Fischer

@ChristianHupfer But ` \edef\namestored{\name}` looks a bit like a step backwards in the middleages ;-)

daleif

3:10 PM

@ChristianHupfer I was playing with it yesterday, the hidden3d feature is rather cool.

egreg

3:42 PM

@PauloCereda I introduced hypercentaurs to my math teaching class.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooh

egreg

@PauloCereda math.stackexchange.com/questions/1749853/…

Paulo Cereda

3:55 PM

@egreg love it. :)

@egreg: upvoted. :)

Christian Hupfer

5:09 PM

@UlrikeFischer Now it is code from the future, since there is no L3 format yet ;-)

Vrouvrou

5:50 PM

hello, i want to numerate the equations by (1.1) i added \numberwithin{equation}{section}

but it gives me an error

how to do ?

Torbjørn T.

@Vrouvrou Have you loaded amsmath?

Paulo Cereda

VS2017 out today.

Vrouvrou

no

@TorbjørnT.

Torbjørn T.

@Vrouvrou Then do

yo'

@PauloCereda "VS"?

Vrouvrou

5:53 PM

\usepackage{amsmath} ?

@TorbjørnT.

Torbjørn T.

@Vrouvrou Yes.

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Visual Studio. Microsoft. Those blokes. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda who? :D

Vrouvrou

same thing error

Torbjørn T.

@Vrouvrou Which error?

Paulo Cereda

5:55 PM

@yo' Who's on first. :)

Alan Munn

Anyone here using baposter?

Vrouvrou

@TorbjørnT.

\documentclass[twoside,10pt]{paper}
\thispagestyle{plain}\pagestyle{myheadings}\markboth{\small ?? } {\small ??}
\makeatletter
\renewcommand{\fnum@table}[1]{\tablename~\thetable.}
\makeatother
\usepackage{amssymb}
%\usepackage{ams}

\def\figurename{Figure} % Replace the colon that normally appears after the Figure number by a period.
\makeatletter
\renewcommand{\fnum@figure}[1]{\figurename~\thefigure.}
\makeatother
\def\tablename{Table} % Replace the colon that normally appears after the Figure number by a period.

Torbjørn T.

@Vrouvrou You seem to have put \usepackage{amsmath} inside the definition of the proof environment.

Vrouvrou

@TorbjørnT. ???

Torbjørn T.

@Vrouvrou Look at where you've put \usepackage{amsmath}. Move it two lines down.

Vrouvrou

6:02 PM

yes thank you

Torbjørn T.

@Vrouvrou And by the way, why not use \newtheorem for the proof environment as well.

Vrouvrou

how?

yo'

@TorbjørnT. that's a bad idea, you lose the QED

Torbjørn T.

@yo' Right, sorry, I never use those kinds of things, should probably have investigated a bit more first.

yo'

6:18 PM

@TorbjørnT. Actually, the definition of proof in quite inconsiistent with the theorems in amsthm

egreg

@yo' Should it be consistent? That's ntheorem's bad idea.

yo'

@egreg not typographically, but on the TeX level, it should, in a sense. I remember dscussing with @barbarabeeton some spacing issues based on this.

Paulo Cereda

6:58 PM

~~I need to write a patch to texdoc~~ Nothing. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Howabout texdoc howtowriteathesis ? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer you are mean

Alan Munn

@ChristianHupfer That will be the patch. texdoc thesis will bring up a PDF of a thesis so that @PauloCereda doesn't need to write one.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn ooh I like this approach.

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn Don't support that lazy duck @PauloCereda ;-)

Paulo Cereda

7:04 PM

@ChristianHupfer you naughty German

People mentioned Fawlty Towers yesterday and I wasn't here...

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Shaky Bus keeps you from being informed ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer yes. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda What have shaky buses ever done for us, apart from generating butter from a jar of milk? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer Exactly!

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda There must be a lot of shaky buses considering the amount of butter ....

Paulo Cereda

7:07 PM

@ChristianHupfer ooh a mafia

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Say no more ....

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer are you sure?

@AlanMunn that is already implemented, try texdoc thesis

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle wait until the new maintainer is announced. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda DPC? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer :)

Christian Hupfer

7:15 PM

@PauloCereda The first one by DPC without 'features' ... ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer oh there are features, believe me. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda presumably that will need to wait until after certain documents are finished

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda In thesis? Neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever!

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Exactly. I blame a certain KB for poking me. :)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle So it looks like I need to do a CTAN update for L3: do I include some compatibility code for k-type args?

David Carlisle

7:23 PM

@JosephWright probably not (especially if we might tweak it all again) we could re-announce the dropping of k and link to your answer or a copy of same as a package somewhere?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I'll need to update that answer: Bruno's recent changes mean the fix needs to be varied a bit

@DavidCarlisle Make it a separate package and we are stuck with it for ever ...

@DavidCarlisle tex.stackexchange.com/questions/357342/…

@DavidCarlisle physics is horrible but ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright well if it was just on github and called temporarary-k-compatibility.sty you might get away with it:-) Or we could put it back in as you say....

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I'll update my answer when I do the release and see what the rest of the team make of my mail from earlier today

David Carlisle

@JosephWright ah...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle For example

\DeclareDocumentCommand\@quantity{ t\big t\Big t\bigg t\Bigg g o d() d|| }
{ % Flexible automatic bracketing of an expression in () or [] or {} or ||
	% Handles manual override of sizing
	\IfBooleanTF{#1}{\let\ltag\bigl \let\rtag\bigr}{
		\IfBooleanTF{#2}{\let\ltag\Bigl \let\rtag\Bigr}{
			\IfBooleanTF{#3}{\let\ltag\biggl \let\rtag\biggr}{
				\IfBooleanTF{#4}
				{\let\ltag\Biggl \let\rtag\Biggr}
				{\let\ltag\left \let\rtag\right}
			}
		}
	}
	% Handles actual bracketing
	\IfNoValueTF{#5}{
		\IfNoValueTF{#6}{

David Carlisle

7:28 PM

@JosephWright yes I held off replying to that for a bit (also I need to look back what I said at the time)

Joseph Wright

@egreg I'm sure you love physics too :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright he was probably their l3-consultant

Joseph Wright

It's one of the few cases where I feel having some 'authority' to force-remove code from CTAN would be good

@DavidCarlisle Needs to finish that book he's been promising ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright ooh can you zap commath as well

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle That would also be on the list, yes

David Carlisle

7:29 PM

@JosephWright the day before we post incompatible changes to ensure a second edition

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Each iteration we've made is better on 'stability' than the last ...

@DavidCarlisle I've posted an answer (of sorts), as I'll probably do the xparse update this evening

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes but there would be an incentive to break @egreg's book:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle have my star

yo'

@JosephWright so beatiful!

Joseph Wright

@yo' :)

@yo' Oh, read the rest of it

@yo' \DeclareDocumentCommand\@admat{mmggggggg}

David Carlisle

7:36 PM

@JosephWright who added g ?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes, yes

David Carlisle

@JosephWright now you know how I feel when people post code using [H] or tabularx full of numbers or ....

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright it looks like someone is choking on macros. :)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle It's there to allow xparse to define things like the beamer frame set up: that wasn't my idea

David Carlisle

Nov 10 '15 at 17:18, by egreg

@DavidCarlisle Excuses, excuses.

naphaneal

7:48 PM

@ChristianHupfer @Johannes_B I withdrew my answer on tex.stackexchange.com/questions/357357/… I admit I was wrong

Johannes_B

@naphaneal The goLaTeX wiki, the wikiboo etc. need some new stuff.

@naphaneal are you german? Where are you from?

naphaneal

@Johannes_B Frankfurt/M.

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Actually, it's even worse:

\DeclareDocumentCommand\@admat{mmggggggg}
{
	\newtoks\matrixtoks
	\global\matrixtoks = {}

David Carlisle

@JosephWright who stopped \newtoks being \outer ?

Johannes_B

@naphaneal I have been there once. To get the next train to Main :-)

Joseph Wright

8:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle FMi?

naphaneal

@Johannes_B you only saw the central main station, that doesn't count as being in FFM.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright we could blame him, but I suspect it was someone in Manchester.

Johannes_B

@naphaneal I was there for about two minutes, running to get the follow-up. So no, i haven't seen anything of that city.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle Brian Cox?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright quite possibly

naphaneal

8:08 PM

@Johannes_B you should, quite the historic place.

Johannes_B

@naphaneal Ever thought of going to smaller town?

naphaneal

@Johannes_B not really. too quiet for my taste. but since that buttcrack of a landlord of mine...well former buttcrack...I might need to relocate soon.

Johannes_B

@naphaneal Try out Saxony ;-)

naphaneal

@Johannes_B sure...pegida would love me...

@Johannes_B no offense

Johannes_B

@naphaneal Not sure about that. If you are nice, the people will love you.

naphaneal

8:14 PM

@Johannes_B yup, that's my problem. I'm kind of a dick, when it comes to people...animals on the other hand. animals I like.

Johannes_B

@naphaneal Pferde sind auch nur Menschen.

Get a grip

naphaneal

@Johannes_B Pferde sind weitaus bessere Menschen als der Mensch je sein wird.

Johannes_B

@naphaneal Not sure. I haven't had a lot of contact with horses.

Christian Hupfer

@naphaneal No problem...

naphaneal

@Johannes_B :D well, replace horses with dogs. same difference...my dog and me are currently having a arguement....he thinks I'm a jackass, and I think he's a son of a bitch...

Johannes_B

8:18 PM

@naphaneal Time for some cuddling

naphaneal

@Johannes_B yeah, if he'd let me...bitemarks on my hand say otherwise... :D

Johannes_B

@naphaneal Honestly, you are doing something wrong, or something is wrong. I am not the one to decide.

naphaneal

@Johannes_B I was just kidding, but truth to be told, I do need some insight from a professional...him being with me for roughly 5 weeks, I'm sure mistakes have been and are going to be made

Johannes_B

@naphaneal Not a dog trainer, ut ... how old is the dog?

naphaneal

@Johannes_B according to the animal shelter between 7 and 8. looks and behaves much younger. street dog from Romania, lived in SMEURA for 4 years, and 3 years on the streets of Romania. Spent 2 month in an animal shelter in Egelsbach, before I took him in.

@Johannes_B I was the only one he responded positively to. everyone else he either bit or barked at

Johannes_B

8:26 PM

@naphaneal Translated to a human: S/He is middle aged, was homeless for quite some while, and now, a change

naphaneal

@Johannes_B yup, pretty much sums it up. takes time and patience to get him accomodated

Johannes_B

@naphaneal Ich bin kein Hundetrainer, aber entweder Geduld, oder der Hund brauch mal ganz zärtlich eins auf die Fresse.

naphaneal

@Johannes_B ihm wurde entweder durch unfall oder absicht der kiefer gebrochen. zärtlich auf die fresse würde er mir nicht verzeihen.

@Johannes_B ich weiß, wie das gemeint ist, aber jede form der harten erziehung macht jeden erfolg und harte arbeit von tagen und wochen zu nichte. der jjunge ist im grunde ein echtes sensibelchen. funktioniert besser mit loben und leckerli

Johannes_B

@naphaneal Das war bildlich. Ich hoffe der Hund kann selbstständig kauen?

naphaneal

@Johannes_B staubsauger is ein scheißdreck gegen ihn.. :D

Johannes_B

8:35 PM

@naphaneal Na dann, hoffen und beten. :-)

naphaneal

@Johannes_B beten ist nicht mein fall, aber ja...ich denke das wird auf lange sicht schon klappen...

David Carlisle

@naphaneal the figure environment has no information about its content at all, it can be an includegraphics or just words or empty, or a table, it certainly has nothing to do with image inclusion (just to expand on the comments, even though the answer is now gone)

@Johannes_B Es ist ein weiterer Chat im deutschen Tag, sollten wir morgen Italienisch machen, um @greg Chance zu geben?

naphaneal

@DavidCarlisle only if dogs are discussed :D

David Carlisle

@naphaneal is your dog trained to catch ducks?

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle I denke @egreg hat alles Chance zu verstehen deutsche Unterhaltung,

naphaneal

8:42 PM

@DavidCarlisle he hunted them for food. so, yes. :D

Johannes_B

I once had a dog who was trained to bark at badly kerned signs. Barked the whole day

4

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Your knowledge of ~~German language~~ Google Translator is improving ;-)

David Carlisle

@naphaneal excellent, there are some round here that need chasing off

@ChristianHupfer Vertrauen in die Technik

naphaneal

@DavidCarlisle yeah, I was too eager for reputation. but I was put in my place very quickly

David Carlisle

@naphaneal bad naming in latex really, people think that the figure environment is related to figures, the table environment is related to tables, and the \paragraph command is related to paragraphs, but none of that is true:-)

naphaneal

8:46 PM

@DavidCarlisle that seems to be a paradigma in all programming languages, if you'd consider LaTeX a programming language

Joseph Wright

@naphaneal The ConTeXt model here is clearer: one to perhaps inform the future

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Kraft durch Freude ... am fahren

naphaneal

@JosephWright you mean like "interpret me, when needed. Ignore otherwise"? to be honest, I don't think I can get my head wrapped around ConTeXt

Joseph Wright

@naphaneal I mean specifically that they have a generic floating environment which has a keyval option to say which type of content it has

naphaneal

@JosephWright ah...that makes it very convenient, i guess...maybe I will dabble with ConTeXt a bit.

Joseph Wright

8:53 PM

@naphaneal It's well-established that I'm the ConTeXt mole in the LaTeX team ;) (@DavidCarlisle)

naphaneal

@JosephWright as long as you don't leak highly classified information about current *TeX projects, you're good. :D

David Carlisle

@JosephWright beware Frank is on the site:-)

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle This is something that we all seem to have to repeat every month. :)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle @FrankMittelbach is I'm sure a benevolent ruler

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn if only Leslie had been German we would have had more descriptive environment names like \begin{floatingblockthatmightgotoanotherpageandmightormightnotcontainapicture}

Joseph Wright

8:56 PM

@DavidCarlisle We do have \StopEventually ;)

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle Gesundheit. :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright cruel.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle No

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer would you rather I translate it?

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle: \BeginneBefehl{Umherirrende Umgebung, die den Leser eher verwirren wird}`

David Carlisle

8:59 PM

@JosephWright which isn't so far from latex's @float but we hide that behind the top level named environments...

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Translation and The German Leslie would have allowed for spaces and , in the command names (or environment names) ;-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes, sure

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer I didn't know you had spaces

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Once in a while they are quite useful ...

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer the American one did allow spaces and commas in environment names (just don't tell anyone)

naphaneal

9:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle we don't...it's just a problem with printers. they don't have enough buffer to keep all the words together

Alan Munn

@ChristianHupfer Aber das ist kein zusammengesetztes Wort.

@ChristianHupfer Not sure if I'm allowed that order with 'aber'?

Christian Hupfer

\Dokumentenklasse{Buch}

\VerwendeDasPaket{GraphikErweitert}
\VerwendeDasPaket{SpringeAufReferenzenInEinemAnderenTeilDesDokuments}
\VerwendeDasPaket{AssozierteZähler}
\VerwendeDasPaket{SchöneBunteRahmen}

\Beginne{Dokument}
\LadeInhaltsverzeichnis

\Kapitel{Hänsel und Gretel}

\Beende{Dokument}

3

deutschtex - Format ;-)

Alan Munn

@ChristianHupfer Surely CamelCase and German noun capitalization rules are in deep conflict. :)

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer can I update hyperref to 𝔖𝔭𝔯𝔦𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔄𝔲𝔣ℜ𝔢𝔣𝔢𝔯𝔢𝔫𝔷𝔢𝔫ℑ𝔫𝔈𝔦𝔫𝔢𝔪𝔄𝔫𝔡𝔢𝔯𝔢𝔫𝔗𝔢𝔦𝔩𝔇𝔢𝔰‌𝔇𝔬𝔨𝔲𝔪𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔰

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn Sometimes you have to break the rules in order to bring the beauty of German Language into the world ;-)

@DavidCarlisle Well your choice of fonts will be applauded in some parts of Germany but I don't like that Fraktur

David Carlisle

9:09 PM

@ChristianHupfer oi the choice is your choice (whatever system fonts you have that have those codepoints)

naphaneal

@DavidCarlisle impressive...how did you get that so quickly?

David Carlisle

@naphaneal Nicht unähnlich wie ich deutsch schreibe

Ulrike Fischer

@Johannes_B Should I add an answer to the biblatex global options question tex.stackexchange.com/questions/334684/… or do you want?

naphaneal

@AlanMunn yes, that is grammatically correct as well.

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn That's alright. Others (not me) would frown that a sentence should not begin with 'Aber' but this is style related and not a grammar issue

Johannes_B

9:12 PM

@UlrikeFischer go for it ;-)

David Carlisle

@naphaneal see the link just above

Dec 19 '12 at 15:12, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda You've got to love "Annoy the hell out of the Unicode Technical Committee!" as a headline feature in a software release note.

Ulrike Fischer

@Johannes_B done

egreg

@JosephWright Neither the discipline nor the package. ;-)

Christian Hupfer

@egreg Booooooh for 'discipline'

Ulrike Fischer

Royal flush!

8

David Carlisle

9:14 PM

@UlrikeFischer !!

egreg

@UlrikeFischer WONDERFUL!

Johannes_B

@UlrikeFischer Voted, thanks :-)

@UlrikeFischer Yaye :-)

naphaneal

@DavidCarlisle nifty tool :D

@UlrikeFischer boo! showoff! boo! :D :P

Alan Munn

@naphaneal Yes, that's what I thought since 'aber' is a coordinator. Thanks.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle @egreg @Johannes_B And I didn't cheat by offering some bounty ;-).

David Carlisle

9:27 PM

@UlrikeFischer just annoyed people to downvote you to get that 6 when you were stuck on 8?

CarLaTeX

@UlrikeFischer Wow!

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I was stuck at 1/6 since over a year ;-). But if you want a different end number: it is easier if you ask a question and accept an answer ;-)

Alan Munn

9:42 PM

@UlrikeFischer Of course for some people, a zero question count is a point of honour. :)

barbara beeton

@ChristianHupfer -- don't like that fraktur ... is there a fraktur that you do like? (i can deal with fraktur. ir's schriftdeutsch that i find unintelligible.)

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I keep asking @egreg how to do that but he doesn't seem to know.

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Never been able to find out a button for doing it.

Christian Hupfer

10:03 PM

@barbarabeeton those Fraktur fonts ....

Ulrike Fischer

10:46 PM

@JosephWright "\Bigg g o d" in a physics.sty ;-)

egreg

@UlrikeFischer It's simply crazy

Quantum88

Quick question, I'm wondering why I'm having an error with a nested branch? I have one Branch and 3 nested branches. the first is fine but the 2nd & 3rd have a red shade as if to show an error. How do I findout the errror causing this?

Alan Munn

11:03 PM

@Quantum88 What do you mean by a nested branch? And 'red shade' is a function of your editor I assume, so that's not easy to tell. You need to look at the console output or the log file.

Quantum88

I wanted to 'fold' parts of this paper so I decided to use branches

Red is denoted as a LATEX error in my color profile

I'm trying to find out what is the error

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright that's more than unfair ... in those days I was young and innocent

it is and was what is called "false friends"

Alan Munn

@Quantum88 You still haven't explained what you're actually doing in the code. Can you show what your 'branches' look like? Can you make a minimal example that shows what you are doing that reproduces the error?

David Carlisle

11:37 PM

@Quantum88 whatever is colouring something red, it isn't latex, presumably it's a feature of your editor but you haven't said what editor that is

@FrankMittelbach young at least:-)

Bruno Le Floch

11:51 PM

About physics.sty: maybe we should consider providing some \parse_balanced:NNTF ( ) { arg found in parentheses: #1 } { no parentheses } that would essentially do like xparse's d() argument. Then at least people may stop abusing xparse

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