6:47 AM
@AlanMunn odd I only landed on linguex by doing a binary chop with \show to narrow down the issue, but perhaps I hadn't quite the right issue at that time:-) \automath seems like a particularly useless definition really, do people really want the base in text mode then switch to math for the subscript??, shouldn't it be using \textsubscript and \textsuperscript in text mode?

7:42 AM
@DavidCarlisle Speaking of which, I think we should consider updating those to not use math mode at all (a la ConTeXt)

@JosephWright yes although we looked at that originally I don't really recall why we kept the math rather than doing something with \raise

@DavidCarlisle Needs more tokens?

@JosephWright possibly although \m@th\ensuremath{_{\mbox{ and \leavevmode\raise-\fontdimen something\hbox{ aren't very different countwise...

@DavidCarlisle Let me check what ConTeXt do: I think they have rather more than that

8:10 AM
@DavidCarlisle Hmm, tracing it over I guess they do much the same, though with more structured data for the fonts and so on (and built-in tagging available)

8:25 AM
@DavidCarlisle I guess then there's a reason you didn't do it?

@JosephWright well it depends a bit what you want x_{a\textsubscript{b}} to do: currently it uses same font size always but the down shift depends on the mathstyle could do that of course without math _ but a pain, especially for somthing that shouldn't be done anyway

1 hour later…
9:47 AM
@JosephWright If a user does \newcommand{\mix}{50} and then \color{red!\mix}, \detokenize is to no avail. One might do \scantokens, but some category code juggling is necessary anyway to cope with babel-french. Maybe with LuaTeX it's simpler.

10:12 AM
@egreg Depends on your view of the semantics of \color, of course
@egreg You don't though have to do \catcodeXX YY for a dozen code points to do that

@egreg or maybe better just make the punctuation always active everywhere (\let to catcode12 ones) then can turn on special behaviours without catcode changes.

@DavidCarlisle \hspace{2.3em} with \usepackage[french]{babel}?

@egreg ?

@DavidCarlisle You meant in the code for xcolor, didn't you?

10:41 AM
@egreg \protected@edef\@tempa{...}\edef\@tempa{\detokenize\expandafter{\@tempa}}?
@DavidCarlisle Yup
@egreg No, generally: ideally we'd have a fixed set of actives so they apply everywhere
@DavidCarlisle Of course, far too late to actually do that

Party alert! @StevenB.Segletes is at −72
2

11:14 AM
0


@egreg look! what a beautiful footnote! ^^^^

@egreg Uh oh...

11:37 AM
@DavidCarlisle The subscripting is mainly used for adding indices, e.g. NP_{i} ... t_{i} and so the math mode version of these is appropriate. Of course it also leads to people misusing it and you get plenty of things done wrong (like [_{NP} ) which should not be in math mode.

11:57 AM
@StevenB.Segletes −2 now. :)

Let's party! :D
@StevenB.Segletes Congratulations for breaking the 100K wall!

@egreg yay!

@yo' Who's in charge for the cake? Where's @PauloCereda when we need him?

@egreg where's @PauloCereda 's credit card when we need it?!

12:02 PM
@yo' @StevenB.Segletes I'm sure @PauloCereda will email his credit card number ASAP

Thank you for the well wishes, all (@egreg, @yo')
@egreg Perhaps a gift card to Ducks 'R Us will suffice.

12:21 PM
@StevenB.Segletes Oh, no! He sends is CCN to everybody over 100K. It's well known that @DavidCarlisle charges all his Christmas gifts on it.

Sorry to eat and run, but I've got several hours of meetings lined up. Thanks again!

@StevenB.Segletes congrats!

1 hour later…
1:43 PM
@DavidCarlisle Thank you, David. A lot of those points were using tricks I learned from reading your answers.

@StevenB.Segletes I hope you read this one in depth, that is the best example for point generation
444

It does this but it uses a computer and so requires less manual labour. (image from Wikipedia)

@DavidCarlisle As a life-long Lutheran, a course in "Gutenberg 101" was mandatory, along with the equally popular "Coffee: The 3rd sacrament??"

2:01 PM
@StevenB.Segletes This brings to a debate about the superiority of chocolate over coffee.

@egreg There is no debate there....

@egreg Well, sacramental communion elements are known to occur in pairs, solid and liquid. So I am sure we can work out a compromise here.

@StevenB.Segletes The only blemish in Bach's production is having a coffee cantata, but no chocolate one.

@egreg You are, apparently, not alone: finerestaurantfinder.com/restaurant/556832261058724/…

@StevenB.Segletes Need to go to Disneyland

2 hours later…
3:55 PM
CAKE!
@StevenB.Segletes: Congrats!
(")>

4:12 PM
Hi, when I define a new environment in my tex document it works, but if I copy paste it to my package collection "mypackages.sty" and include it via "\usepackage{mypackages.sty}" the environment no longer works. Is this normal behaviour?

@s.harp no, you did something wrong (probably copied \makeatother)

I used a trivial environment to test it, namely just:
\newenvironment{stuff}%
{bla}%
{bla again}
and it still doesnt work

@s.harp impossible to debug code we can't see:-) \usepackage just inputs the file so any declarations that work in the preamble will work in the package if loaded at the same point, assuming that that file is input not some other file of the same name, the log will show that.
also what does "doesn't work" mean? error on loading the package or on using the environment, which error exactly
@PauloCereda you still tracking github users?

@DavidCarlisle looking through the log file, the only error is that it tells me the environment stuff is undefined.

@s.harp so you didn't define it.... what does the log say about mypackages.sty ?

4:25 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yes. :)

@PauloCereda any idea who this could be?

@DavidCarlisle LOLOLOL
@DavidCarlisle: I wub you.

@DavidCarlisle thank you for your help, I was editing the wrong copy of my packages! doh

@PauloCereda that's actual day job work, giving some internal github demo and if you try to fork one of your own repos the UI is different (basically it pops up a dialog saying you've already got this, what should I do now:-) so I needed to be someone else....
@s.harp :
11 mins ago, by David Carlisle
@s.harp impossible to debug code we can't see:-) \usepackage just inputs the file so any declarations that work in the preamble will work in the package if loaded at the same point, assuming that that file is input not some other file of the same name, the log will show that.
@s.harp I suspected as much :-) ^^^

@DavidCarlisle Cool. :)

4:30 PM
@PauloCereda going to delete the account now:-)

@DavidCarlisle Oh. :(

@PauloCereda Thank you Paulo. Make it a triple-mousse chocolate cake.

4:46 PM
@PauloCereda ^^ with pineapple

@PauloCereda Do I get any reward, if I include a duck within my master thesis?

My master thesis is the reason I havent been around here lately.

@StevenB.Segletes Don't forget to check you mail for @PauloCereda's CCN

@MaestroGlanz Automatic approval. :)
@egreg oh no

@MaestroGlanz that's similar to @PauloCereda's situation, but in reverse: he's here a lot but his thesis....

@egreg I don't know how to interpret your comment...I barely know how to chat.

4:53 PM
@StevenB.Segletes Trusted users get my credit card number. :)

@PauloCereda Got it! Vegas binge, here I come!

@PauloCereda Good then, I already have received 100 rep from being a trusted user on TeX.SX. Can I have the credit card now?

@StevenB.Segletes oh no
@GuilhermeZ.Santos Go away. :)

@PauloCereda :'(

@PauloCereda Do you have a link to your profile duck, which is public domain/ can be used in my thesis.

4:56 PM
@GuilhermeZ.Santos trusted user == 20,000 rep

@GuilhermeZ.Santos <3
@MaestroGlanz oh I am not sure if it's public domain, I just googled cricketeer duck.

@GuilhermeZ.Santos speaking of rep, two answers from me today

@DavidCarlisle Let's agree to disagree, the stakes are too high... ;P

@GuilhermeZ.Santos no, that's by (stackexchange) definition not my view:-)

@DavidCarlisle Unbeliveable... You We should throw a party once you get this badge! Haha
@DavidCarlisle But I once received a message which stated "We trust you on other sites here's 100 rep" (this other site was TeX.SX) you mean to say that they're lying????

5:03 PM
@GuilhermeZ.Santos That's a different story: when you have some amount of rep on one site, you're awarded 100 points when you join another one, so you can freely comment answers and questions. The first time you join another site, you get 100 additional rep on the first site.

@GuilhermeZ.Santos Some people have more trust than others, apparently. :)

@egreg Lying pricks... ¬¬ ahaah

5:28 PM
Any thoughts on the latest questions and answers concerning templates for novels? For example:
-1

This LaTeX template is for typesetting a novel. It will be most useful to folks new to LaTeX, not the regular academics or scientists who already use it regularly. Those who catch this answer after googling for solutions should notice the structure and the input statements which direct LaTeX to...

@Johannes_B "It was a dark and stormy night??"

@StevenB.Segletes :-)

@Johannes_B One of the comments on the question I think makes it a salvageable question
I might edit the comment into the question as it seems key

@StrongBad You also copied the typo ;-)

@Johannes_B well I didn't read the comment ...
Fixed it (hopefully)

5:35 PM
@StrongBad No work for me! It just works out of the box! And looks the way i want! Great Template Expectations

@Johannes_B I think it would be a pretty cool document class that looks in the current directory for a bunch of appropriately named files and makes a book out of it. The instructions would be something like copy this file into the directory and then run arara makebook.tex

@Johannes_B if the files were called title.txt, chapter1.txt, chapter2.txt ... the class could take care of it.

@StrongBad I would never recommend a naming scheme like that. I also don't recommmend to use labels lke figure1 and figure2 and figure3 or cite keys like ref1 and ref2 and ref3.

@Johannes_B but that is because you know how to use LaTeX...

5:42 PM
@StrongBad You cannot ride a bike unless you learn it. Minimal effort is required to achieve all tasks in live.
At least minimal effort.

6:12 PM
@StrongBad that's easy to achieve but is the job of latex or your build system or arara, not of latex

6:25 PM
@StrongBad er, i meant job of your editor... not of latex :-)

6:35 PM
@DavidCarlisle There still needs to be a little bit of latex. At some point you need a file with a \documentclass and an \include. I could imagine some people being perfectly happy if there was a magic way to take a bunch of chapter1.txt chapter2.txt files and make a pretty book out of it.

@StrongBad well there doesn't have to be a file.

@DavidCarlisle I think that depends on what you mean by file. The build process or emacs mode is going to need a file(s) someplace.

@DavidCarlisle How do you do the build without a file? Ask people to type lots of commands?

$ls *tex ch1.tex ch2.tex ch3.tex $ b="";for c in c*tex; do b="$b\include{${c/.tex/}}"; done; pdflatex -jobname=thesis '\documentclass{report}\begin{document}' \$b '\end{document}'
Output written on thesis.pdf (3 pages, 10982 bytes).
@StrongBad tex has always read from the commandline if no file provided

6:44 PM
@DavidCarlisle I know, but I think that is a lot harder/scarier than ./magic where magic is a file that has the build process.

@StrongBad Magic is much scarier for me than something that i know how it works.

@StrongBad whatever, in a file or just type it straight in makes not a lot of difference really, I typed that straight into an xterm and it made a pdf. but either way you'd only type it once and stick it in your editor build setup, my point was it doesn't need any latex class programming

@DavidCarlisle if you are happy without a title page and using the report class. You might want chapter titles and a dedication page ...
@Johannes_B I am okay with a little magic in my life. I have no idea how arara does what it does, but I like it a lot better than make files (which I also have no idea how work).

@Johannes_B I have seen those beginner LaTeX files, where the person is indignant about how tough this LaTeX thing is. Then you look at the file and find everything hardwired and manually spaced... no attempt to take advantage of any sectioning commands, etc.

@StrongBad no c0.tex can be your title page the report is part of the calling sequence so can obviously be memoir or whatever. arara doesn't work on my platform (until @PauloCereda finishes his thesis and releases next version:-) but arara or make or a bash loop all come to the same thing, some external program collecting the resources into a latex document.

6:58 PM
@DavidCarlisle for my wife's book the publisher wanted each chapter in a word document with no formatting (1 inch margins and courier 10pt). If there was an icon my wife could have double-click that would have converted those "ugly" word documents into a less ugly pdf, she would have done it. Anything more than that and she makes me do it.

@StrongBad do you want to be automated out of a marriage? keep it so you are needed!

@DavidCarlisle “until @PauloCereda finishes his thesis and releases next version”: this will take loooooong!
@DavidCarlisle Maybe even longer than it will take you to finish xor

@egreg :D

7:14 PM
@egreg perhaps @PauloCereda is relying on xor to paginate his thesis. that's why he's only got one page so far.

7:33 PM
@egreg do you now recommend 30pt as a good default setting for \lineskip ?

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that's the new frontier of typography

@DavidCarlisle gotcha!

7:48 PM
Oh, my UX question is "hot" :-) ux.stackexchange.com/questions/100609/…

@yo' do your students have student numbers? Are they all the same length?

@AaronHall In the UK we are not allowed to see student names while grading. We only have access to the student ID number.
@yo' apparently had I bother to read the comments on the question, I would have seen you ruled that out.

@StrongBad yeah, "not an option". I mean, I forgot some details, but I really want people to answer Y even if they believe I should have asked X ;-)

8:05 PM
@yo' I can see why people are going that way. At least it was in a comment asking for clarification and not a highly up voted answer.

@StrongBad well, it often makes sense in UX, so I'm neither surprised nor annoyed by it :-)

@StevenB.Segletes template confusion. I know that story

8:22 PM
@yo' My problem is not forcing students to use block capitals, but to write legibly their student number. Sometimes I can't decide whether a 3 is actually a 9, or a 5 is a 6 and so on. Note: we have to publish grades only with student numbers. In tough cases I have to resort to checking the electronic list and then it's not relevant how the name was written down.
@yo' My dream is that they carry stickers with their name and number printed.

@egreg LOL, we actually check that the name on the exam is the one on their student card, so there is space to check for name legibility... But it's tough when you have 100 students in a 120-seat lecture hall. I fortunately have 48 students in a 49 classroom with desks by 2--3, so it's easily doable.

9:05 PM
Hey, I've been searching all over tex.stackexchange.com but I can't find a post asking how to change biblatex 'alphabetic' labels so that instead of a year, a sequential number is added only(!) if there are several publifications of the same authors. Like [Paul], [Peter1], [Peter2], [Hans], [BHT], [AVR1], [AVR2], [AVR3], [BT]. Is this not a common thing?

9:17 PM
@abenthy have you tried uniquename=true?
The manual has a bunch of stuff about "uniqueness" and disambiguation.

@abenthy It was common in the olden times when typewriters were used. Nowadays such a barbaric system can be abandoned.

I still get a year printed when using the alphabetic style. Can I just replace the two year digits in the label of the alphabetic style with a number in case the label is not unique?
Wow the biblatex manual is really... dense :/

@egreg some practical combinatorics for exam writing (the fact that I use detainees rather than students is purely coincidental):
0

You are a prison captain and you have got 4 groups of detainees, let's call them Red, Blue, Green and Yellow. You have got 12 of each. The prison is a square grid 7x7 fields. You need to place the 48 detainees into the 49 cells (so 1 cell will remain empty). The catch is that you can't place two ...

@abenthy Quite probably. But as with all biblatex question: make a complete example that one can use for tests.

Ah nice. I managed it =)
Like in tex.stackexchange.com/questions/289814/… I just had to leave out the year and use \DeclareFieldFormat{extraalpha}{#1}

9:32 PM
@yo' can't you just replicate the 4x4 grid?

@StrongBad no, you don't count 12 in all colours, you and with amounts (IIRC) 10+11+13+14 = 48 rather than 12+12+12+12 = 48
I spent about 3 hours today trying to do it (I won't tell you whether I succeeded or not).

@yo' I missed the 12 of all requirement

@StrongBad yeah, it's a big troublemaker when both dimensions are odd :-)

10:03 PM

10:21 PM
@DavidCarlisle Awesome initiative!

@egreg It was announced at the meeting earlier in the month but this was first I've seen written down.