TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2016-05-28

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12:52 AM

Hi, somebody can help me? I am trying to compile a .dtx file, but I have noticed that documentation is made until before the implementation section, if I delete the \StopEventually command then the documentation is produced completely. I am not using the \OnlyDescription command inside the document. I am using the dtxtut by Scott Pakin. In fact, if I compile the skeleton.dtx file (after skeleton.ins) made by Scott, the same thing happens. I am working with MiKTeX 2.9.

4 hours later…

4:32 AM

@StefanKottwitz @ChristianHupfer Oh no!!!! latex-community.org/forum/…

5:29 AM

@OSjerick Looks like a question for the main site. It will need a real example to help.

3 hours later…

8:06 AM

@OSjerick check your log to see if a ltxdoc.cfg (or other local file) is input, you may find \OnlyDescription there

Hard disk not showing up at all. Definitely need a new one. Only question is whether current one is still under warranty

Was replaced not that long ago ...

@DavidCarlisle Gives me a chance to try new website on tablet. Looks good

@JosephWright not good (your disk not website:-). I was just going to ask if you have a real machine or are on a phone

@DavidCarlisle Have you seen my phone?

@DavidCarlisle Nokia C2

@DavidCarlisle At home so there is mum's laptop

@JosephWright ah like the sony-erricson i had until it literally fell apart last year and i finally succumbed to one of these glass screen things

@DavidCarlisle I find the tablet restrictive enough ...

8:17 AM

@JosephWright does she have a development latex build on it?

@DavidCarlisle I have a number of spare Nokia's :-)

@DavidCarlisle No, but I expect to fix my own machine by the end of the day

@JosephWright I was wondering if I ought to start pushing some things to ctan, looking at the list of ctan-announce since updates stopped, updates will be well down the queue of things to get early texlive updates

@DavidCarlisle Have a Time Machine back up here to last weekend so just a question of fitting a new HD and restoring

Christian Hupfer

@Johannes_B I thought new LC users aren't allowed to send PM any longer?

@DavidCarlisle May as well. MiKTeX will pick them up

8:20 AM

@JosephWright I hate fiddling with hardware:-) on Monday going to my mums, she was tricked into a windows 10 update so now I've got to see if I can find a trackpad driver for a 5 year old toshiba that works in win10...

@DavidCarlisle My Win10 tests all looked fine but I know that has not been the universal experience

@DavidCarlisle Back on website, I wonder if I should just rewrite LaTeX3 development code part entirely

@JosephWright don't know if you saw any news articles but microsoft "helpfully" changed the UI of the update message last weekend so that if for example you dismiss the window using the red x top right it is taken as accept, win 10 in itself is OK, but dumping a new operating system on pensioners without warning and not updating drivers so you end up with a laptop with no pointer device (fortunately she had a usb mouse) isn't a great "customer experience"

@DavidCarlisle I'd seen that, yes

@JosephWright I guess it'll all need rewriting, I think that was rather the point, the old update system was sufficiently weird we all stopped doing it, once we get the new mechanisms in place I expect editing all over....

@DavidCarlisle I'm the only one who remembers the admin password for my mum's laptop so we arere safe

8:28 AM

@JosephWright windows doesn't require anything as secure as an admin (or any) password to update the operating system:-)

@DavidCarlisle Depends how you set it up

@JosephWright sure, but.... it's more or less however a toshiba win7 bought off the shelf in pc world was set up half a decade ago:-)

@DavidCarlisle In my case, mum has a Mac anyway so the issue goes away. She's still on 10.9 but I may change that soon

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle We've not had a consumer Windows set up at home since Win3: I switched to NT4 when it was released

@DavidCarlisle Did you see Petr's article in TUGboat? I know he doesn't like non-plain formats, but any idea what he's got against eTeX?

@JosephWright no, I'll read later...

@JosephWright did you see the discussion (here in chat mostly) re pagesize special? I think doing nothing until I understand how it works is best plan, so I'll just update graphics for rotating this time round...

@JosephWright citations one or numbers one?

Christian Hupfer

8:51 AM

@JosephWright Are you referring to TuGboat 37/1?

@ChristianHupfer yes

Christian Hupfer

@JosephWright Is it shipped already? I don't have a copy yet

@DavidCarlisle Numbers. Citations is of course all doable without BibTeX but Biber shows where the complexity really is

@ChristianHupfer I have my copy :-)

Christian Hupfer

@JosephWright Well, I can use the online access as well, but I think it should arrived some days (or weeks?) ago, but still no mail :-(

@DavidCarlisle One for the team list, though I think we can justify a change

9:18 AM

@JosephWright I'd like to change it but as far as I can see dvips (but not xdvi) only uses the first one, so if graphics (or anything) puts the special in \AtBeginDvi then it's tricky to change it later (hav eto use atbegindvi again, but geometry uses Heiko's atfirstshipout hook

Anonymous

So, I am fiddling inside my .pdf_tex with some text \put(0.59648325,1.06701851){\makebox(0,0)[lb]{\smash{HERE-IS-THE-TEXT DO-YOU-SEE}}} ... I am wondering how I can most elegantly create a maximum width for the HERE-IS-THE-TEXT DO-YOU-SEE, which will create automatic line-breaks.

Anonymous

Maybe I shouldn't go through this trouble ... I don't know ... Maybe I should just put the text on, only in the main document, via tikz; then I can easily have it centered on a certain coordinate.

Anonymous

I did tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311713/… using tex.stackexchange.com/q/311723/67761, but now I just need to add text inside the sub-images.

Anonymous

Maybe I'll do that using tex.stackexchange.com/a/311563/67761 (adapted, simplified Tikz code, so that I just input a text centered on a certain coordinate, inside a minipage or so).

9:35 AM

@VincentVerheyen \parbox{3cm}{some text here?}

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle I'll try.

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Hooray! Thanks.

@JosephWright I especially liked the last section

@VincentVerheyen \smash isn't doing anything useful there (\makebox(0,0) has already squashed it to zero size)

2

Q: ConTeXt: what is ~/texmf folder and what is its relation with /usr/share/texmf

First of all, I am a complete noob in TeX/LaTeX/ConTeXt/WhaTeVeR, so please be gentle. OK so I installed ConTeXt (version 2013.84.svn30044-18.5) on my OpenSuSE 42.1 using the official repository, and tried running context --version. This gave me ... resolvers | resolving | resolvers ...

context linux texmf

The first line is priceless!

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Ok. Thanks. I'm just annoyed by all of the spaces which are added, trying to fill every line of the parbox up to a fullwidth (very bad legibility). I have tried putting \centering inside (at the begining of) the \parbox{3cm}{...}, but it doesn't resolve.

9:50 AM

@VincentVerheyen you can use \centering or \raggedright in a \parbox

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Ok. It works, thanks. Had some wrong code before.

@VincentVerheyen I know:-)

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle But \put(0.16,0.65) starts the parbox (at the right side) at that coordinate, but its not centered on that coordinate. That's annoying, as every time I want to adjust the width of the parbox, I have to re-arrange coordinates.

@VincentVerheyen only because you specified it that way. [lb] on the makebox says reference point is bottom left corner, it would have been the horizontal and vertical centre without that argument

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Thanks a bunch!

Anonymous

10:00 AM

I just don't like to work with anything from outisde of tex (such as a .svg). I think you'll always have some ugliness (not only a lot of opening and closing programs usually). I think the slanted lines from a svg look bad when imported via tex to an output PDF, but I don't know if that's true.

@VincentVerheyen shouldn't make any difference, all svg has gone by then so it's just pdf, of course depends on the quality of your svg to pdf conversion, but doesn't depend on tex, it just copies the pdf it is given into the final document (and adjusts internal references and fonts etc to that context)

Anonymous

Maybe converting svg to pdf increases file size?

Anonymous

I wonder whether you can run Adobe Creative Suite products (Illustrator and the like) on Linux easily?

Anonymous

"I am thinking of changing to Linux" - It's kind of the geek version of "gluten-free" for 50-year old mothers, right?

Stefan Kottwitz

@Johannes_B Thanks! The same spammer (different profile) and before the policy change. I found the rest of that current spam profiles and removed them and their spam messages.

10:16 AM

@VincentVerheyen Wouldn't think so, though some versions of some them might run in Wine.

@VincentVerheyen possibly but if you are starting with svg and want to generate pdf what else can you do?

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Maybe I don't want to generate pdf before outputting the final pdf. I just want to be able to have the text input/controlled via the .Tex, rather than within the svg? --- Well, changing colours of svg objects from within the main tex would be handy now and then too.

Anonymous

@TorbjørnT. It would be funny if a communist country would start to introduce its own operating system, e.g. a variety of Linux. -- Wine, that sounds very buggy to my experience.

Anonymous

Can you guys really just work with Inkscape, without Adobe Illustrator?

@VincentVerheyen yes but whether you convert the svg to pdf and include or (had the possibility of) directly include the svg, is just an implementation detail, either way the svg has to be converted to pdf

10:26 AM

@VincentVerheyen I don't use either.

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen Used both once and never again -- this clicking stuff stresses my nerves

@VincentVerheyen well i have inkscape not illustrator but I don't use either as a rule.

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Got it.

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer That hints for an opportunity to start a viable zen/yoga/meditation institute where one soothes the mind by losing the mouse. ;)

@VincentVerheyen Church of Emacs?

Christian Hupfer

10:30 AM

@VincentVerheyen I meditate using my finger tips hitting on the keyboard :-P

@TorbjørnT. That's a nice church ;-)

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer But I think the best would be to have (failure-proof) coders who don't need a screen. Just a keyboard and a processor. It's very eco-friendly too.

Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.

Anonymous

@TorbjørnT. I didn't know about that. Is there anything like that still running in an off-line space?

Anonymous

You know ... I'd love to lose GUI-software, so I can switch to Linux. But I think there really should be like basic courses or institutes for such things. It's a bit like "computers-for-grandpa's-literacy", but it's necessary.

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen I've been thrown into Linux world in 1996 starting my studies -- I was forced to use it -- no courses etc. Nobody told me to use C or Fortran. The same with LaTeX -- no courses. Start it. As long as you don't do dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda not much bad can happen ;-)

Anonymous

10:43 AM

@ChristianHupfer Thanks mate. Will do.

@JosephWright I liked the sentence regarding the sorting of bibentries "This is the reason why I did not attempt to solve this problem;" Everything is easy if you ignore all the complicated questions.

11:15 AM

@VincentVerheyen What are you talking about? It's a joke

@TorbjørnT. it is???? oh no, all these years wasted:(

@DavidCarlisle LOL

@PauloCereda emacs and vim not forgetting TECO

user image

@DavidCarlisle <3

11:32 AM

standardisation, who needs it:( tug.org/pipermail/tex-live/2016-May/038598.html

11:44 AM

@DavidCarlisle ouch

12:37 PM

@StefanKottwitz Thanks. @ChristianHupfer

12:47 PM

@DavidCarlisle Yes, inside the .log file appears "Local config file ltxdoc.cfg used" and \OnlyDescription appears on it.

@cfr: I was looking for Arch and netbooks and found some replies from you on the Arch forum. :)

@OSjerick suspected it would:-)

@DavidCarlisle Thank you. :-)

1:21 PM

@PauloCereda Did I say anything which happened to be true?

@cfr Mostly certainly so. <3

^^ ooh I feel like an English gentleman.

I actually failed grammar. Ouch. :)

@PauloCereda ;)

@cfr Cwac! :)

@PauloCereda Cwac!

@cfr :) Fubá is near me. :)

1:25 PM

@PauloCereda Lucy is behind me, hiding from the influx of children downstairs.

@cfr ooh she's so cute!

1:42 PM

\colorbox comes from the color packge. very reputable author! — David Carlisle 26 secs ago

@PauloCereda they are not universally popular in Wales.

@DavidCarlisle uh-oh.

@PauloCereda see how well they get on together:

user image

Christian Hupfer

2:04 PM

@Johannes_B ??????

@ChristianHupfer Follow the little arrow. The spam via PM was posted the very same day, before the no now user PM rule was established.

@ChristianHupfer: you got a message. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Where? Look out of the yard? ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Hangouts.

@ChristianHupfer Inspector Thereisamanbehindyou. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Constable Pan - Am ;-)

2:48 PM

We are living in a yellow subroutine, a yellow subroutine, a yellow subroutine!

2

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda No more wine etc. for you, today ;-)

@ChristianHupfer :D

@DavidCarlisle Which is why we have such a high density of castles ... @PauloCereda ;)

@PauloCereda Your grammar is perfect, but it doesn't match the meaning you intended. :)

@AlanMunn Oh no!

@cfr: ^^ sorry, sorry, sorry!

2:54 PM

@PauloCereda 'mostly certainly so' ≠ 'most certainly so'

@AlanMunn ooh

@PauloCereda Why? You're not really an English gentleman, surely? :-)

@cfr He has terrible role models. @DavidCarlisle

@AlanMunn The first seemed more interesting.

@cfr Yes, it is indeed.

2:56 PM

@cfr I have no idea anymore! :)

@AlanMunn ;)

I am suffering bullying right now. :)

@AlanMunn LOL

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda We pity you :-P

@PauloCereda Then you're not. An English gentleman is always certain he is right.

@cfr oh my!

@ChristianHupfer You naughty German! <3

2:59 PM

@PauloCereda Do we need a TSPCD, do you think? (TeX Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Ducks)

@cfr ooooooh <3

@cfr Or perhaps the PPPP Povo Para Proteção dos Patos

Christian Hupfer

@cfr Nope, rather the other way round -- > Preventing Cruelties by Ducks to TeX Users (PCBDTU)

@AlanMunn OMG

@AlanMunn Inaugural speech, Portanto, prezados presentes, patos padecem de proteção e pedem por projetos pertinentes! Para tal, ponho ponto e peço palmas!

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda too much words starting with p in my point of view :-P @PauloCereda

3:12 PM

@ChristianHupfer :D

@PauloCereda Parabéns!

@AlanMunn ooh :D

3:24 PM

@ChristianHupfer Message on the Gesichtsbuch.

Christian Hupfer

@Johannes_B Just noticed it.

3:45 PM

user image

5

^^ @PauloCereda @AlanMunn @ChristianHupfer

@cfr During my ice cream stop I see this! <3

@egreg Did somebody say ice-cream?

@cfr Yummy

4:19 PM

Does anyone know of a script/tool to check for outdated packages in a local texmf?

4:43 PM

@cfr OMG OMG OMG

@egreg Yay!

@cfr This is the best thing ever! <3

@AlanMunn Wait for @David to suggest awk. :)

One thing I will never understand: drive-by Meta commenting of this sort: meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/6636/…

5:07 PM

@AlanMunn I like how the guy's complaint applies to his own comment: no one has marked it as great. :)

@PauloCereda It's just very weird: join the site specifically to comment on how our questions must be bad if they have multiple answers. And to defend the "SE rules".

@AlanMunn Indeed. I am very tempted to add a comment: Nice try, dude, but you cannot apply for the duck giveaway. :)

@PauloCereda No, I think the best thing with these sorts of commenters is to simply not engage them at all. They're really a kind of troll.

@AlanMunn ah do not feed the trolls! Got it!

@AlanMunn: ooooooooooor we could summon @percusse. :)

5:24 PM

@AlanMunn Funny thing is I often find a couple of equally good answers when I read SO questions

@AlanMunn I bet Perl questions on SO get multiple answers:-)

@Joseph, @Alan: don't forget to guess numbers in the duck contest. :)

5:54 PM

@PauloCereda find

@David: any chances of you picking numbers in the accepted range? :)

@PauloCereda I could change my answer to (list (- (point-min) 1) (+ (point-max) 1))

@DavidCarlisle Still naughty. :)

6:16 PM

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@UlrikeFischer Indeed: essentially the reason that an external tool was needed in the first place :-)

So, as well as finding that my HD was out of warranty, I've also had to buy a new car battery

@DavidCarlisle No clue on the dislike of eTeX

@JosephWright didn't see any specific dislike other than he said those macros also work in classic tex? or did I miss something, he certainly uses etex elsewhere

@DavidCarlisle The comment about not wanting to do the job expandably as it is 'not needed'

@JosephWright oh I read that as a dig at Bruno, not at etex (mainly)

@DavidCarlisle could be, though of course it works with plain too. I guess the LuaTeX solution wouldn't be popular :-)

@DavidCarlisle There's also xint

@JosephWright been digging mostly, but still worrying about page sizes (between rows) will try to construct a team mail later

6:26 PM

@DavidCarlisle I've mainly been spending money unexpectedly :-(

@JosephWright new disk?

@PauloCereda I have added my guesses.

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but also new car battery

@JosephWright they come in useful too. long walk to east anglia

@DavidCarlisle I usually get the train :-)

6:56 PM

@PauloCereda -- not bullying, teasing. there's a fine distinction.

7:08 PM

@ChristianHupfer -- editor's copy received may 2 (this is sent special handling); member copy received may 6. that means the general mailing was probably april 29 or may 2. the routine at least used to be that all non-us copies are bulk shipped air mail and handed over to the "local" postal service for final delivery. one would think that four weeks would be enough time to be delivered in germany. i'll see what i can find out.

7:56 PM

@barbarabeeton I've not yet received it.

@barbarabeeton I got it yesterday

@DavidCarlisle -- thanks. i'll let robin know, and send information along for anyone who reports an arrival date.

8:21 PM

@michal.h21 if you are around, I found big problem with the new mkutils.lua I just tried on Linux. It might be easier to talk here vs. email on the list. It removes all my original svg images! So I had to remove it, and go back to the original mkutils.lua which does the copy and not move.

In another chat:

in Discussion between Łukasz Przeniosło and egreg, 1 min ago, by egreg

@ŁukaszPrzeniosło The serif math is horrible, but it's well known that the people in charge of those decisions are carefully chosen among those who are blissfully ignorant in typography matters. ;-)

user image

It seems that the institution is happy with this. :( ^^^^^^

@egreg Until you posted the image I thought this comment was sans a sans. :)

@AlanMunn It seems that sans serif is a hit among secretaries.

@egreg Nah, it's not secretaries that usually decide these things, (at least in the US) but failed academics who have moved into administration.

@AlanMunn By the way, a few days ago I received a mail with the appointment for a department committee. I was tempted to decline the appointment, just because the paperwork was in Comic Sans.

8:31 PM

@egreg :D Wow. Now, that was probably a secretary I guess.

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@AlanMunn ^^^^

@egreg I'm more impressed with the number of numbers in this...

@AlanMunn Italian bureaucratic style

@egreg: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311990/…

@egreg Apparently so. I guess they used up all the style in the numbers leaving nothing for the font. :)

8:35 PM

@DavidCarlisle You relieved me from some work

@egreg missing % on every line, including lines adding negative space to counter the space added, quite an achievement:-)

@DavidCarlisle LOL

@DavidCarlisle github.com/mreq/xelatex-emoji/issues/4

@egreg I put a comment on the commit already:-) github.com/mreq/xelatex-emoji/commit/…

Christian Hupfer

8:50 PM

@barbarabeeton We had some regional holidays recently, perhaps this is the cause for the delay.

@ChristianHupfer -- thanks for that info. i'll pass it along.

@DavidCarlisle -- although this isn't quite relevant to that question, it does have to do with spacing. i've recently vetted the article i wrote for visible language on 50 years of math typesetting, and the effect of tex. anyhow, my beautifully composed (just plain ol' computer modern) article was converted to word, thence to indesign to put it into their style. i'm going to try to persuade the vis. lang. editor to write an article for tugboat describing the misadventures. (cont.)

(cont.) said misadventures included really rotten spacing and substitution of fonts (i.e., bold and/or italic in place of roman, as well as different sizes), and the real kicker -- expansion to 110% of the journal font (myriad pro regular), which made it impossible to easily identify where the "stretched" spaces were located. amazing, simply amazing!

@barbarabeeton you should have insisted they included your article as a precomposed image set with tex:-)

9:09 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- there was a full page of math input/output examples. that they kept as a pdf insert, but added a caption in their own sans font. (at least they didn't make me do the translation to word. chuck bigelow passed on my comment that i should be considered a "destructive tester" of word, and they took the hint. so i only had to proofread the result.)

@Nasser ahh, you are right. I've reverted the changes back

9:37 PM

@michal.h21 no problem. I think this needs more careful analysis and testing. But for now, I can live with duplicate files. Not a very big deal but will be nice if this could be avoided.

Headed for Tumbleweed land again...

England:     First innings 498 - for 9 wickets dec
Sri Lanka:   First innings 91 - for 8 wickets (40.0 overs)
Close - Sri Lanka are trailing by 407 runs

@egreg ^^

9:52 PM

@DavidCarlisle Wow! That doesn't happen too often, I bet...

@AlanMunn first test ended with two days to spare, and this one looks like it might go the same way, seems like we may have picked our opposition carefully this time:-)

@DavidCarlisle You may also try with Iceland or Liechtenstein.

@DavidCarlisle how many days does the game take then?

@egreg or Italy

@yo' a test match is 5 days (the above is score at end of day 2)

@DavidCarlisle damn, that's more than the A0levels

10:03 PM

@DavidCarlisle We have Pakistani immigrants playing. ;-)

@DavidCarlisle I don't understand the score, but 498 : 91 seems quite far from a draw....

@yo' Rain might come to the rescue for Sri Lanka

@yo' @egreg is our local expert, see ^^ (accurate comment, that:-)

@yo' The runs numbers themselves aren't a telling as the combination of them and the number of wickets.

@DavidCarlisle What are the forecasts? Here we should have rain for the next few days.

10:06 PM

@egreg well sunny unless you are under a thunderstorm so mixed...

@AlanMunn I think I need a cricket scoring crash course, but it's gonna be another day. I'm really tired now and get up in about 7 hours for another longish day.

Bye, everybody!

@yo' @PauloCereda has a "helpful youtube video" outlining the rules, if I recall correctly,

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