TeX, LaTeX and Friends

1:24 AM

@DavidCarlisle "1992 isn't so long ago, what do you want an updated version for?" ---- Ouh, I don't know. As I heared, there are some problems with the current version. Here ( texwelt.de/wissen/fragen/9724/… ), for example, we solved one of them

Johannes_B

6:47 AM

@PauloCereda It seems your vimagic made the emacs users go away. :-p

Johannes_B

7:16 AM

Und dann dachte ich »So, schön, mein Code is buggy!«

David Carlisle

8:18 AM

@cis ooh math font setup, I suppose I could fix that:-) It's not my fault if @FrankMittelbach redefines the latex font handling and breaks my package, then no one tells me for 15 years:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle Wait until we manage to get LaTeX3 finished :-)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright then make blkarray the guinea pig for direct latex2.09 to latex3 update, bypassing 2e ?

Joseph Wright

:-)

egreg

8:47 AM

I'm imagining somebody growing his coffee, roasting and grinding it every day for breakfast, because it's simpler than going to a shop and buying it.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Huh?

@egreg I know people who say you have to roast your own to get the best flavour

egreg

@JosephWright Doing their own key-value interface for each specific problem. Should I be more precise? ;-)

That's an answer that should be heavily downvoted, in my opinion, because it's useless and teaches nothing at all.

Joseph Wright

9:04 AM

@egreg Ah, found the one you mean

Joseph Wright

9:23 AM

@egreg I've added the obligatory expl3 answer (with reasons)

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright boo :)

<3

Christian Hupfer

10:26 AM

@PauloCereda: You seem to be completely transformed into a .... duck. You have been assimilated. Resistance was futile ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer Quack... I mean, I don't know what you are talking about. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: Naughty duck, naughty, naughty duck

►

@PauloCereda: FYI ;-)

David Carlisle

11:00 AM

@egreg everyone should use the one true keyval system, I agree

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Yes, l3.

Paulo Cereda

%%
%% This is file `keyval.sty',
%% generated with the docstrip utility.
%%
%% The original source files were:
%%
%% keyval.dtx  (with options: `package')
%%
%% keyval.dtx Copyright (C) 1993 1994 1995 1997 1998 1999 2014 David Carlisle

David Carlisle

@egreg you're just pampering to our mod, it'll get you nowhere

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ^^

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda i on line 4? (vim key input error?)

Paulo Cereda

11:03 AM

@DavidCarlisle Oopsie. You saw nothing. :)

@David: I use VimFx for Firefox. Sometimes I run into problems. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda There really is no helping vim users

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Quack! :)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle By the way, the correct hierarchy has been reestablished.

Paulo Cereda

Diese Würstchen sind zu teuer.

Gotta love those travelling conversation guides. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda With hovercrafts and eels, too?

Paulo Cereda

11:16 AM

@egreg I wish I had a fancy phrasebook like that one. :)

David Carlisle

@egreg I think I have a few more merited bounties due once garbage collector catches up:-) (or perhaps not, I lost count)

David Carlisle

11:43 AM

@egreg you also get an honourable mention in my latest answer

egreg

12:04 PM

@DavidCarlisle And changed your mind in the meantime.

David Carlisle

@egreg it confused the OP

egreg

@DavidCarlisle And in my school of typographic design I'd have chosen a different font. This one, for instance

David Carlisle

@egreg one has to support Queen and Country

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Rule Britannia!

percusse

12:24 PM

@PauloCereda Cadet Cereda?

Paulo Cereda

@percusse Should I shout something during battle? :)

percusse

►

Sean Allred

If anybody here happens to be a Numbers pro, apple.stackexchange.com/q/150754/82179. (The sad thing is that I could pretty easily muddle through this with pgfplots…)

percusse

@SeanAllred Does Excel count?

Paulo Cereda

@SeanAllred I think I have Numbers in my Macbook, but it's buried somewhere.

tohecz

12:30 PM

Oh my duck!

Paulo Cereda

@tohecz quack!

tohecz

@PauloCereda btw, I'm creating an article that should, given a \ifABCtrue or \ifABCfalse at the beginning, create the document in two quite incompatible article classes. I think I'm screwed :P

Paulo Cereda

@tohecz Oh my!

tohecz

@PauloCereda for instance, one is a4paper, one is a5paper, therefore: conditional multline/equation :)

Paulo Cereda

@tohecz :D

tohecz

12:39 PM

\ifABC \let\eqml\multline\let\endeqml\endmultline\else\let\eqml\equation\let\endeqml\en‌deqaution\fi And I happily realized that \\ gets ignored inside equation :)

David Carlisle

\ifABC \input{doc1}\else\input{doc2}\fi\endinput ?

tohecz

@DavidCarlisle I aim at not doubling any text nor equations :)

Sean Allred

@percusse I don't believe the syntax is quite the same, and I haven't bought an MS product in twelve years :)

@PauloCereda You changed your gravatar!!

tohecz

12 mins ago, by tohecz

Oh my duck!

Sean Allred

@percusse If you have something on-hand though, I can try it :)

Paulo Cereda

12:43 PM

@SeanAllred <3

Sean Allred

@PauloCereda I like it

Paulo Cereda

@SeanAllred Thanks. :) It's a cricketeer duck. :)

Johannes_B

@JosephWright @cgnieder latex-community.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=85899#p85899

Joseph Wright

@Johannes_B Zap it, I think

Johannes_B

@JosephWright Gone it is.</yoda>

Sean Allred

1:04 PM

Turns out I was right except for s/≥/>=/: apple.stackexchange.com/a/150811/82179

Johannes_B

There was a tab open showing some code. I thought, doesn't look like my code, looks like @ChristianHupfers doing.

@ChristianHupfer I like that language ` \caption{Waarom werkt dit niet?}`

percusse

1:24 PM

@Johannes_B Altijd zegt je Daarom

David Carlisle

@cis vvvvv

$ svn commit -m "blkarray: the latex2e edition" blkarray.sty
Sending        blkarray.sty
Transmitting file data .
Committed revision 93.

3

Christian Hupfer

@Johannes_B: Huh????

Johannes_B

@percusse I could understand the other, but not yours. What does it mean?

@ChristianHupfer ?

Christian Hupfer

@Johannes_B: What was my doing???

David Carlisle

@cis code.google.com/p/dpctex/source/detail?r=93

Johannes_B

1:32 PM

@ChristianHupfer Didn't have a close look, some section stuff. But i recognised your style.

Christian Hupfer

@Johannes_B: I have not answered such section stuff for a while now

percusse

@Johannes_B If someone asks Why you respond Thus which doesn't sound funny in english :p

or therefore I think

Johannes_B

@ChristianHupfer I think it was from june.

Christian Hupfer

@Johannes_B: Old stuff ;-)

Johannes_B

@percusse In german the statement is Warum? »Darum«

@DavidCarlisle texwelt.de/wissen/fragen/9724/… Please click on »Alle anzeigen« at the bottom.

David Carlisle

1:48 PM

@Johannes_B I tried but it was very German and I think it wanted me to sign up with yet another login, so I declined:-)

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Didn't know you need to be signed up to read the comments, sorry.

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B I could read them (with a bit of help from google) I couldn't add another

Johannes_B

It's basically a short anouncement

DPC, busy as a bee: code.google.com/p/dpctex/source/detail?r=93

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B ah sorry that button (they all look same to me:-) I'd tried to add a link earlier

@Johannes_B busy as in: change 1 line of code every 22 years

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle You also changed the mail address, add the word duck after endinput and you have a major release :-)

cis

1:53 PM

@DavidCarlisle Oh, a present for me? This is the bugfix of the "mathfont-problem"?

David Carlisle

@cis yes

Johannes_B

@cis @DavidCarlisle I heard there will be cake in Darmstadt 2015?

cis

@DavidCarlisle Ah very good, so I think blkarray will become more and more popluar like tikz ond so on. Yes, I said on TeXWelt.de "If D.C. produces a 2014/15-Version of blkarray, I have to spend him a cake" ..................... "2014/15-Version" --- please don't ask me, what this means - I am only user, not constructor ;)

David Carlisle

4:04 PM

@egreg + 1 \span was what I was going to do but I just put it on the \if and forgot the \else and \fi :-)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle :)

David Carlisle

@egreg \span in preambles is weird, even by tex standards

egreg

@DavidCarlisle One of the weirdest primitives.

tohecz

4:23 PM

@egreg seems like that DEK wanted to save one primitive :)

David Carlisle

@tohecz yes well \span having two meanings is strange but the way \span works in preambles would be odd even if it were a different name

egreg

@tohecz Yes, that was surely his idea; since \span in the meaning used in the table body has no sense in the preamble, he reused it there with a different purpose.

@tohecz In errorlog we see that the preamble meaning for \span was introduced on 13 Nov 1982, “Major surgery on the program is planned for today, because of new ideas suggested by correspondence with MDS and other macro writers.”

Johannes_B

4:43 PM

csquotes provides the hook mktextquote. But as far as i can tell, there isn't a similar hook for enquote.

tohecz

@DavidCarlisle yeah, I don't see a use for it there :-/

tohecz

5:16 PM

If there were bounties for comments, this would get one:

You may disagree, of course, but then you can't use booktabs. I invite you to look at my realization of your table in this picture. I would probably remove the \cmidrule{2-5} commands too. The superheavy rules are out of the question. — egreg 21 mins ago

Johannes_B

@tohecz Are you able to view the pic?

@tohecz It is loading for 5 minutes now.

tohecz

@Johannes_B yes I am

Johannes_B

@tohecz Hm, so it's my side lacking.

egreg

@Johannes_B ^^^^^

Johannes_B

@tohecz @egreg Thanks; the windows approach of restarting firefox worked

egreg

5:25 PM

@Johannes_B That's the general computer scientist method.

tohecz

5:38 PM

@egreg I answered it, but I feel really guilty: tex.stackexchange.com/a/207507

Johannes_B

I was just asked to enter a captcha to answer. The first time i think.

egreg

@tohecz I don't even dare to look at the result.

tohecz

@egreg I didn't include it for purpose :) but I can put it here to spoil your evening. (Especially since some horizontal rules are thick, but no vertical rules are)

David Carlisle

@egreg Ok but I think it needs a few vertical rules to improve it.

tohecz

@tohecz @David seen the answer?

David Carlisle

5:45 PM

@tohecz you took away teh \scalebox\small which was the best bit

tohecz

@DavidCarlisle yeah, sorry for that

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Yes, one between the colon and the list of values would be most appropriate.

tohecz

anyways, gotta go, need to do some shopping tonight

David Carlisle

209902

egreg

David Carlisle

5:53 PM

@egreg was better without the picture:-)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle That's why I'm a green square.

Paulo Cereda

6:41 PM

@DavidCarlisle You are doing fine.

:)

Paulo Cereda

6:59 PM

\$ define (
    \w\#greet( \:name:\ )#\ =
     \?
        Hello \@name@\!
    ?\w\ ) $\

@DavidCarlisle: ^^ :)

@David: I bet it's still JS valid code. :P

Johannes_B

8:34 PM

More support in the morning; Feierabend; night guys.

Henri Menke

9:00 PM

Hello everybody.

I fear there is no solution, but if I insert \vrule in a line it extends automatically to the text height and depth. Is there a way I can exploit that to measure height and depth of a line?

David Carlisle

@HenriMenke no

@HenriMenke what do you want want to do really

egreg

@HenriMenke Height and depth of a line are known only after the paragraph has been split into lines. You can examine this post facto in the log file after having enabled \showoutput, or by dismantling the just built paragraph (which is tricky and sometimes impossible).

Henri Menke

I have the following document

\documentclass{standalone}
\usepackage{chemfig}
\begin{document}
\setatomsep{3em}
\rlap{\tikz[baseline]\node[draw,circle,inner sep=2pt] at (0,3em) {1};}
\chemfig{
  \textcolor{blue}{H_2N}
  -[,,,,blue]\chemabove{C}{\alpha\hspace{1em}}
  (-[2,,,,green]\textcolor{green}{R})
  (-[6]H)
  -[,,,,red]\textcolor{red}{C}
  (-[7,,,,red]\textcolor{red}{OH})
  (=[1,,,,red]\textcolor{red}{O})
}
\quad\vrule\quad
\rlap{\tikz[baseline]\node[draw,circle,inner sep=2pt] at (0,3em) {2};}
\chemfig{
  \color{blue}\chemabove{H_3N}{\hspace{2em}\oplus}

I wanted to place the numbers 1 and 2 automatically at the top of the line but I'm also totally fine with my handcrafted solution.

Hm, maybe \raisebox would have been shorter but then I'd have no circle.

David Carlisle

@HenriMenke you could do the chemfig bits in a box then you'd know its height and could position the number using that

egreg

@HenriMenke You're lucky that you're using standalone that places everything in a box. That initial \rlap doesn't start a paragraph.

Henri Menke

9:12 PM

@DavidCarlisle I already thought of that but that would have been to exaggerating for such a small drawing :)

@egreg You're totally right but I still don't get why. Because \rlap is an \hbox which in principle should (or shouldn't it, I'm not sure anymore) start a new paragraph.

David Carlisle

@HenriMenke I don't know chemfig almost certyainly its already a box internally so its height may be available, but sticking it in a new box is easier than reading the manual and finding out:-)

@HenriMenke no \hbox doesn't start a paragraph, compare \hbox{a}\hbox{b} with \mbox{a}\mbox{b}

Henri Menke

@DavidCarlisle It's a tikzpicture so it's a box.

@DavidCarlisle So that means I need to start a paragraph by using \leavevmode if I want to start with an \hbox?

David Carlisle

@HenriMenke yes well everything's a box, question is, is it's dimension (and/or reference point) available without looking in its internal code, oris it easier to measure it again

@HenriMenke yes or use latex syntax \makebox[0pt][l]{...}

Henri Menke

@DavidCarlisle For a tikzpicture it's quite easy, see tex.stackexchange.com/questions/137356/…

David Carlisle

@HenriMenke nothing's easy in tikz:-)

Henri Menke

9:19 PM

@DavidCarlisle Do you happen to know why an \hbox doesn't start a new paragraph?

@DavidCarlisle Do you suggest picture mode instead? :)

David Carlisle

@HenriMenke because it's a box and in vertical mode boxes are stacked vertically (there is a clue in the name:-)

@HenriMenke If it's good enough for an aircraft, it should be good enough for chemistry

egreg

@HenriMenke Here it is

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{chemfig}

\newsavebox\HMchemfigbox
\newcommand{\nchemfig}[2]{%
  \sbox\HMchemfigbox{\chemfig{#2}}%
  \leavevmode\vbox to\ht\HMchemfigbox{
    \rlap{\tikz[baseline]\node[draw,circle,inner sep=2pt] at (0,3em) {#1};}
    \vss
  }\box\HMchemfigbox
}

\begin{document}
\setatomsep{3em}
\nchemfig{1}{
  \textcolor{blue}{H_2N}
  -[,,,,blue]\chemabove{C}{\alpha\hspace{1em}}
  (-[2,,,,green]\textcolor{green}{R})
  (-[6]H)
  -[,,,,red]\textcolor{red}{C}
  (-[7,,,,red]\textcolor{red}{OH})

Henri Menke

@DavidCarlisle That aircraft is amazing! I also upvoted.

egreg

Henri Menke

@egreg Thank you very much! If you attend TUG 2015 in Darmstadt I'll definitely buy you a beer!

egreg

9:23 PM

@HenriMenke I'll be drunk all day. ;-)

Henri Menke

@egreg Is there an advantage of \sbox\somebox{...} over \setbox\somebox=\hbox{...}?

egreg

@HenriMenke And you should thank Knuth for not having made \hbox starting a paragraph, so the trick above can work. ;-)

David Carlisle

@HenriMenke yes

egreg

% latex.ltx, line 4623:
\long\def\sbox#1#2{\setbox#1\hbox{%
  \color@setgroup#2\color@endgroup}}

@HenriMenke As you see, \sbox avoids color leaking.

David Carlisle

@egreg brilliant bit of code, I wonder who wrote that?

egreg

9:25 PM

@DavidCarlisle Frank?

Henri Menke

@egreg Which tool did you use to craft that output?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle As the 'driver expert': any idea if \pdfcolorstack can be used in DVI mode? It seems to be defined with an up-to-date pdfTeX in both modes

Henri Menke

Aha, texdef -s sbox.

egreg

@HenriMenke The “official” LaTeX code would be

\newcommand{\nchemfig}[2]{%
  \sbox\HMchemfigbox{\chemfig{#2}}%
  \parbox[t][\ht\HMchemfigbox]{0pt}{
    \makebox[0pt][l]{\tikz[baseline]\node[draw,circle,inner sep=2pt] at (0,3em) {#1};}
  }\usebox\HMchemfigbox
}

Henri Menke

Honestly I like the \vbox to ... better. There I don't have to remember the order of the arguments.

David Carlisle

9:33 PM

@HenriMenke but you have to remember to start a paragraph, and to add extra groups to keep colour into a box, and ...

egreg

@DavidCarlisle In this case we can possibly trust in TikZ doing proper color management.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright hmm I'm not sure, I didn't think so, don't you have to use \special in dvi mode rather than the pdf color primitives?

@egreg yes sure, I meant the general comment about using \vbox in preference to \parbox

Henri Menke

That's the epilogue for today: Just trust TikZ. Good night everybody :)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I'm not sure, hence asking: I wonder if it's really a PDF primitive or just has the prefix due to the engine introducing it

David Carlisle

s/TikZ/\\begin{picture}/

@JosephWright yes but (in general) the tex engine can't know the \special syntax so if you have dvips syntax colour setting in the special you wouldn't expect pdftex to be able to handle it (that doesn't mean that it doesnt)

Dennis

11:08 PM

Does anyone know of a convention governing how to emphasize text that is set in small caps? I have a latin phrase in my title, but italics just looks off with the surrounding small caps. Do I leave the phrase unemphasized? Is there something better than italics?

egreg

11:29 PM

@Dennis Double emphasis is always to avoid: use quotation marks.

@Dennis Or don't use small caps for the titles.

Transcript for

$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends