@JosephWright Spammer: tex.stackexchange.com/users/56319/ling

@JosephWright better?

@DavidCarlisle :-)

Today's gem:

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
	[Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.]

paulo@alexandria ~$

@egreg: ^^ :)

@PauloCereda Tramen meum lente procedit.

@egreg Oh no! :(

@PauloCereda We were in a place where they are changing the rails. ;-)

@egreg Uh-oh. :)

hi, could someone please tell me why this does not work: pastebin.com/Ck2cfARZ It's nearly exactly like the code on page 140 of the TikZ manual but I somehow don't see the forest for the trees.

(I don't think this warrants its own question since it's too specific.)

@henry I guess you need the positioning library. But it seems you can't use a named path for that.

stunned -> latex-community.org/forum/…

I got an academic email written in Comic Sans. /sigh Is there a way to create a spam filter based on fontfaces?

@PauloCereda In which field does the sender work?

@Johannes_B Apparently, CS. :(

@PauloCereda He should know better.

@Johannes_B Yep.

@PauloCereda texdoc nth <- Did you expect that?

@Johannes_B Wow.

@PauloCereda vi `kpsewhich nth.sty` Look at line #4

@Johannes_B :)

@egreg: around? :)

Yes

@egreg Could you give me a hint on how my code does not work?

@PauloCereda What code?

@egreg This one. :)

I wanted to write the content of lang to a file, then later on input it in that specific range.

But if I uncomment \VerbatimInput, I get an error.

@PauloCereda You can't use #1 in the \end part. Just add \def\langsaved{#1} in the \begin part and use \VerbatimInput{\langsaved} in the \end part.

@egreg Oh my, I had no idea! Thank you very much!

@egreg: sorry for the newbie error. :(

Or try this

\usepackage{xparse}

\NewDocumentEnvironment{lang}{m}
  {\VerbatimOut{#1}}
  {\endVerbatimOut
   \newcommand*\FancyVerbStartString{FROM}%
   \newcommand*\FancyVerbStopString{TO}%
   \VerbatimInput{#1}}

@egreg Oh xparse! :)

@egreg: erase that, I got it. :P

@egreg Hats off to the improved welcome messages (your most recent one on the Quantum Circuit question being most examplary). ;-) Is there a thread on TeX.meta on this or is this all improvised?

@1010011010 meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/430/text-building-blocks

@Johannes_B Thanks

I saw a significantly less elaborate version of this elsewhere.

LaTeX3 question: This might not be the place, but I just saw in the L3 list the new \tl_upper_case:n(n)… I'm not at the level of the developers, but since I've read many times those “layers” Frank distinguish (and, in a similar way, so do I), but it certainly shocked me a little: shouldn't \tl_upper_case:n(n) be in another layer? I think that's a different approach, more related with the end user and I'm surprised it's just put together with other \tl_… functions.

@Manuel yes well probably for text level uppercasing there will probably need to be functions at a different level but you often need a basic level of case change awareness even at the lowest level for normalising tokens or filenames or whatever,theese are expandable and Unicode aware versions of \lowercase so designed to fit somewhere near the bottom of the stack (but these things are never absolute:-)

@1010011010 I removed the arbitrarily added do-it-for-me that I find offensive. But I used the standard message.

@JosephWright Can you remove that tag? ^^^^^

@egreg This was my favourite tag: tex.stackexchange.com/revisions/153389/3 :)

@PauloCereda With Bela Lugosi's photo in the tag wiki.

@egreg ooh that would be great! :)

@PauloCereda I never drink … water.

@egreg :)

Although I wouldn't mind seeing Leslie Nielsen as Dracula in there. :)

@PauloCereda By the way, I enjoyed my glass of wine on the train. Some of the waiters that come to serve passengers don't even ask, when they meet me on the evening train. ;-)

@egreg Signore Gregorio! :)

Was the wine tasting good?

@PauloCereda Yes, of course! Some of the train guards don't ask me the ticket, too. I'm an almost 19 year commuter, you know. ;-)

@egreg :)

@Manuel We need something to implement a higher-level function with: beyond some bootstrapping the aim is to use documented interfaces as far as possible. It's quite tricky, but I'm yet to find a 'better' place for this. (We've talked about \text_..., at least for thought experiments. Still doesn't quite seem right: suggestions quite welcome.)

@Manuel Functionality seems required, so the question then becomes how do we do such things. One problem is that 'case changing' is a 'text' operation but also does seem 'natural' for doing something like \tl_set:Nx { \some_case_function:n { tokens } } and to end up with stored case-changed data.

@Manuel Also note that case changing isn't really 'design layer' or similar: if we are talking uTF-8 input then most languages have a well-defined mapping here. (Of course, input encoding is another thorny issue!)

@Manuel One problem at present is we expose \lowercase and \uppercase, and they are really not the idea tools for case changing. What we need is a way to separate out case changing from case folding from 'weird token' creation. That's again tricky.

@DavidCarlisle Any view on whether we need some separate module for 'text manipulation'? Might be a better long-term approach.

@Manuel Note in particular that this stuff is currently in the part of expl3 where we say 'experimental': may yet turn out not to be the best 'home' for this code

@Manuel I've added this to the list of questions on LaTeX-L!

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright Okey. I see it's still in l3experimental.

@JosephWright I saw just now that there was another message talking about that. By the way, how does that list work? It's the first time I ever see something like that (a list), and I don't understand what it is exactly.

@Manuel the mailing list? you register at listserv and send it mail and it mails you back, mailing lists are older than the web:-)

@DavidCarlisle It's older than the web, and I happen to be younger. That might be the reason we (lists and me) never met before :) Register at listserv

@Manuel see listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A0=latex-l

So those are all e-mails? And to receive them you just sign your address in some place?

@JosephWright don't we have a link to latex-l at latex-project.org? I couldn't see one just now

@Manuel yes

@DavidCarlisle I usually go through gmane: news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.latex.latex3

@DavidCarlisle It's similar to Google Groups then. Where you just answer a mail, and everyone in the group receives it, etc. I had no idea :)

@Manuel gmane and google groups are (as far as I recall) a mail interface to newsgroups such as comp.text.tex which were originally (and still with the right client) accessed via netnews (nntp rather than smtp) but basically same idea.

@PauloCereda great idea! I would certainly use it

@DavidCarlisle Every day you learn something new :)

@JosephWright not sure:-) tempting to wait until more higher level things sit on top to take a more informed view of how to split up the functionality but by then it may be too late to change the names...

@JosephWright @LoopSpace Check it out :)

I updated l3kernel and some other l3 that I didn't pay attention and it's not working any more. Looks like conditionals have been changed.

@percusse github.com/latex3/svn-mirror/blob/master/l3kernel/…

@DavidCarlisle Bwahahaha. Pure evil.

Is there any list for the replacements?

@percusse I was just looking:-) but replacing on e ifundefined is probably easy but if the whole package needs updating may be harder I may look a bit more but Joseph's a lot closer to that stuff

@DavidCarlisle Yes I wanted to provide a simple fix had I known what the new thing is :)

Hipsters

@percusse not all of them have replacements, some just have been dropped (e.g. \fp_mul:Nn)

@cgnieder I think if you do that without providing an alternative Bruno will burn down the whole CTAN :-D

@percusse There have been announcements on the LaTeX-L list I think

This might work as a temporary fix:

\prg_new_conditional:Npnn \fp_if_undefined:N #1 {T,F,TF}
  {
    \fp_if_exist:NTF #1
      {\prg_return_false:}
      {\prg_return_true:}
  }

@cgnieder If I subscribe to it, I might start reading TeXBook. I recently managed to take control of my TeX-SX addiction.

@percusse :)

@percusse LOL

Dull question: How can i subscribe to L3-list?

@percusse @egreg got there first, he'll do anything for a tick that man:-)

@cgnieder Didn't read far back enough :-) Thanks

@PauloCereda :-D

@Johannes_B Sorry, I was having fun. :)

@PauloCereda lol

@PauloCereda No problem. I am laughing too. ;-)

@cgnieder, @Johannes: I have problems. :)

@PauloCereda I think you're fine.

Confirming:
> SUBSCRIBE LATEX-L Johannes Böttcher
You have been added to the LATEX-L list.

@DavidCarlisle My take too: my feeling is we can't leave 'all this stuff' until 'later', but we do have to be ready to change stuff. Provided we give notice and have proper documentation, that should be OK.

@Manuel I guess @DavidCarlisle covered this :-)

@percusse Some code wasn't actually working, as we didn't have tests. The feeling was as it was almost all bust we could just drop it: perhaps this wasn't quite right

@JosephWright were do we tell people about latex-l I thought there was a subscribe link on the project page?

@DavidCarlisle latex-project.org/code.html?

@JosephWright ah I thought it was there somewhere:-)

@David: July 9 is near. :)

@PauloCereda then I'll be even older

@DavidCarlisle I always have to hunt about

@DavidCarlisle Forever young. :)

@Joseph: Hey you guys could stop sending mails to the L3 list? I'm waiting for a paper review and every time a mail arrives, it gives me shivers. :)

@PauloCereda are that the problems you mentioned? :p

@PauloCereda You don't see the team list too :-)

@JosephWright he does get other mail though I believe

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@PauloCereda Take the night/afternoon off. There is no use in worrying. ;-)

@cgnieder :)

@JosephWright oh! :)

@DavidCarlisle You are mean. <3

@Johannes_B A glass of wine might help. :)

@PauloCereda it might, but be careful.

@PauloCereda @Joseph gave a smiley for that comment so he doesn't think I'm mean

@DavidCarlisle I added a heart, so you are not mean at all. :)

@Johannes_B In vino veritas. :)

@PauloCereda a poor ascii art heart not a real ♥

@DavidCarlisle ooh that's not fair, you are Unicode-powered. :)

@PauloCereda Yup, see the LaTeX-L discussion :-)

@PauloCereda emacs C-x 8 return black heart

@DavidCarlisle :)

@JosephWright Uh-oh. :)

@PauloCereda What about beer?

@PauloCereda Luckily, the heart sign is caseless

Signing off for today. Sleep tight evrybody.

@Johannes_B A fair choice. :)

@Johannes_B Good night, buddy! :)

@PauloCereda Are all Brazilian referees like this one?

@egreg Is he any good?

@JosephWright Hmmm.

@egreg Worse. Far worse.

@JosephWright I remember when I found out Java uses UTF-16 internally. :P

@JosephWright @egreg is the honourable thing to tell Peter he can generate a list of m's with \romannmeral or to give a lecture about l3 levels and these being all wrong? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/187362/…

@DavidCarlisle I can't really understand what the question is about.

@egreg Same here: lots of stuff

@egreg nor me but if you give a standard answer with a few % and \expandafter added it'll probably cover it.

@DavidCarlisle My solution has no \expandafter and no \romannumeral. :P

@egreg and no \ooalign, I suspect it was written by an imposter

\prg_replicate:nn is more exciting.

@egreg isn't it just romannumeral really (haven't looked recently:-)

@DavidCarlisle And no \begingroup\lccode`~= either

@DavidCarlisle No, it's based on a recursion macro using some ideas by D. Kastrup.

@egreg I usually attribute that rommannumeral trick for replicating to David as well:-)

@DavidCarlisle I'm not sure it's his idea.