@moose probably more accurate to look in the pdf

@PauloCereda does vim have normal mode? I thought all its modes were weird.

@DavidCarlisle The modes are ‘normal weird’, ‘super weird’, ‘extra weird’, ‘amazingly weird’. The last one is the default.

@egreg, I'm disappointed in you, I'd have thought you'd have answered that tabulary question by now. I suppose I'll have to look...

@DavidCarlisle I never color my tables.

@egreg nor I:-)

@DavidCarlisle One of the reasons is that I know I'll hit some bug, if I do.

@egreg colour whatsits just hit Frank's multicol update:-)

@egreg I will consider makros. But even if I wouldn't, this should only give me an inpression which symbols are rarely used at all. For example, \bat or \Mundus are such candidates. (Today I've talked to my advisor and we wondered if \up[greekletter] is used. If it's not used, I don't need training data for that)

@DavidCarlisle The normal mode is the one you don't edit. :)

@PauloCereda The one you can't reach in your lifetime.

Like nirvana for buddhists.

@DavidCarlisle I don't have experience with parsing PDF files at all. The last time I tried to work with PDFs it was really ugly as no good tools / for parsing / pdf generation existed. So if it's possible, I'd like to avoid that.

@moose that sounds about right,:-)

@egreg :)

@egreg: I had a 23" monitor in my old lab PC, with Slackware. It was a Full HD screen all black with a little blinking white cursor. :) People got so mad at me because of that. I only went X twice a day. :)

@PauloCereda Help me! The radio has the “Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune”.

@egreg Oh no, oh no, oh no!

@PauloCereda Just ten minutes. I'll go fetch a beer.

@egreg Update TL. :)

@egreg Prost :-)

@Johannes_B Alain? :)

/bad joke is bad

/sad trombone in the background

@egreg just Costa Rica, we don't use articles for personal nouns

@Johannes_B It's Czech beer.

@MarioS.E. don't mention Costa Rica to @egreg now

@egreg so probably a bunch of consonants and no vowels whatsoever.

@PauloCereda Pilsner Urquell (the name is still German)

@egreg ooh rare vowels! :)

@DavidCarlisle So true, they eliminated England.

:(

@PauloCereda The town where it's made is Plzeň

@DavidCarlisle Well, we also eliminated

@DavidCarlisle eliminated England

waca waca waca

@egreg Oh, Pilsner Urquell. Do you like it?

@MarioS.E. who cares, I have a financial stake in Uruguay going through:-)

@MarioS.E. tiki-taka.

@DavidCarlisle And Chile!

@Johannes_B Yes, I do.

Can't wait for Brazil to get eliminated soon. :)

@PauloCereda hahahahahaha

@MarioS.E. Sorry, that name is very funny to me. :)

Well, as @leo said, this has only happened once in history... so... there you go

@egreg Call me when you are in Germany next time, we can have a Pilsner Urquell at famous stadtwirtschaft.de

@MarioS.E. apparently first time since 1958 that we've been out after 2 games

@DavidCarlisle Don't feel so bad... first time in 24 years that Costa Rica is in the second round

@DavidCarlisle Conveniently misses out 1994 when England didn't even make it that far :-)

@MarioS.E. although it's only football, now you should try the cricket world cup...

@Johannes_B A mere 956 km.

@DavidCarlisle My duck is in the mood for cricket. :)

@JosephWright just quoting bbc news (which is on at moment:-)

@DavidCarlisle Well, I've never really understood the rules hehehehehe

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I know

@MarioS.E. Who does. :)

@DavidCarlisle do you used to play rugby?

I think the only real cricket expert around is Nicola. :)

@MarioS.E. ask @PauloCereda he's keen on cricket as you can see from his icon

@DavidCarlisle oh yeah, I know a lot. :)

@MarioS.E. nah, too violent (and my school not posh enough:-)

@Johannes_B But just 850 if I avoid motorways.

@Mario: You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

bbc news now explaining how people from my home town kill their parents and bury them in the garden:(

When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game.

@MarioS.E., see I told you @PauloCereda understood the rules, the above seems pretty accurate.

@DavidCarlisle Yes: that one is really weird

@DavidCarlisle o.O

@DavidCarlisle Also have BBC news on here in mid-Northants

@egreg NOt that far compared to the USA

@JosephWright walking distance from where I grew up

@Johannes_B It would make for a nice trip, through Pilsen and Karlsbad

@egreg blogs.houstonpress.com/eating/SimpsonsBeer.jpg

@Johannes_B That place you showed the link to seems very promising.

@egreg The beer is good, the food is better and the atmosphere is great.

@egreg It is ;-)

Is there some way to do \ifdefined\ba (or some other macro defined)? Basically, can I use \ifdefined with a this or that kind of construct?

@FaheemMitha Can you explain better?

@egreg Ok, I have code which looks like this

I want to change this to: \ifdefined\ba (or some other macro), then \bibliographystyle{ba} .

So, like

\ifdefined\ba\ordefined\bax

Is that clearer?

@FaheemMitha \ifnum\ifdefined\ba 1\else 0\fi\ifdefined\bax 1\else 0\fi>0 \bibliographystyle{ba}\else\bibliographystyle{natbib}\fi

@egreg The first part returns a boolean?

@FaheemMitha No, both return a number, either 1 or 0; if both are false, both return 0, so TeX compares 00 with 0; otherwise it compare 11, 10 or 01 with 0.

@FaheemMitha Note the missing spaces between 1 and \else and between 0 and \fi.

@egreg I see.

@egreg Is that because otherwise one gets 1 0 etc?

@FaheemMitha Yes, we need to ensure that TeX continues expansion in order to decide where the <number> stops.

@egreg Ok, you lost me there.

@FaheemMitha When TeX looks for a <number> it expands token as it goes; whenever it finds a digit it appends it to the candidate digit string and stops when it finds a token that is unexpandable and not a digit.

@FaheemMitha In this case it stops at >

@egreg ok. and the space breaks this?

@FaheemMitha @FaheemMitha If the stopping token is a space, the <number> is completed, but the space is then ignored.

But yes, a space ends the search for digits.

@egreg ok

@FaheemMitha With LaTeX3 syntax: \bool_if:nTF { \cs_if_exist_p:N \ba || \cs_if_exist_p:N \bax } { \bibliographystyle{ba} } { \bibliographystyle{natbib} }

@egreg this requires expl3?

@FaheemMitha Of course.

@FaheemMitha Look in etoolbox for other ways.

@egreg ok

@egreg as you let me down I had to patch tabulary:-)

@FaheemMitha Here's with etoolbox

\ifboolexpr{ test {\ifdef{\ba}} or test {\ifdef{\bax}} }
  {\bibliographystyle{ba}}
  {\bibliographystyle{natbib}}

@DavidCarlisle When will the bug fix be available? ;-)

@egreg That looks quite clean. Is etoolbox in the base latex distribution?

@egreg average time for updates around 10 years

@FaheemMitha The only reasonable base distribution is the full one.

@egreg Tell that to the academic journals.

@FaheemMitha :(

@FaheemMitha But if the document is for submission, you shouldn't have that conditional.

@FaheemMitha natbib isn't in base either (if you literally mean latex/base)

@DavidCarlisle that's the journal's bibtex file.

@FaheemMitha yes but the answer to is it in the base latex distribution is still "no"

@egreg the conditional is for testing. the first version doesn't require any special packages, right?

@DavidCarlisle Ok, but the journal is ok with that, because it is theirs

@FaheemMitha No, that's just primitive. Well, \ifdefined might be unknown to some oldish distribution.

@FaheemMitha what I mean is, a more reasonable question is not "is it in base" but "is it in common tex distributions" to which the answer is yes

@DavidCarlisle you mean the etoolbox package?

@FaheemMitha yes

How does your etoolbox version expand for my earlier version?

Does one nest \ifboolexpr?

@FaheemMitha Why not?

@egreg ok