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12:00 AM
Back home! :)
@PauloCereda nice :)
@tohecz :)
12:16 AM
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle Can you take a look, some files of babel in the subversion repository are severely broken, e.g. english.dtx, Texts at line ends are cut off.
@HeikoOberdiek hmm will look
@PauloCereda Comment upvote please, Sir! :)
Why don't you use arara? — Harish Kumar 2 hours ago
@tohecz It's cheating. :P
@PauloCereda shhhhhhhh
@tohecz ooh sneaky! I like it! :P
12:25 AM
@HeikoOberdiek @JosephWright ^^^^ isn't svn blame a wonderful thing:-)
@DavidCarlisle LOL someone got svn'ed. :)
@HeikoOberdiek try now
phew tl2014 installed at last
3 hours later…
3:37 AM
@DavidCarlisle I see you have reverted to a previous version. The cause? Something for @JosephWright to prevent that he getting bored?
4 hours later…
7:20 AM
@HeikoOberdiek yes there was an edit across the whole repository to remove white space from ends of lines (following a comment from you I think) but in that one directory it acted in a bizarre way, so I reverted the checkin for babel only in all other directories it seemed fine.
1 hour later…
8:21 AM
@WillRobertson Hi, would you please take a look on this topic tex.stackexchange.com/a/175572 ? I read the manual of verse and there is nothing written on the numbering over multiple stanzas. In the only example (on page 13) the numbering on the last line is missing. Or is this best practise for verse numbering? Don't know. Maybe you can clarify that a bit. Thank you very much for your work.
@WillRobertson Hope, you don't mind asking you this way here. Couldn't find an issue tracker or alike.
2 hours later…
10:23 AM
@egreg: I borrowed 90% of your code, hope you don't mind. :)
@PauloCereda For what?
@egreg Here: tex.stackexchange.com/a/175589/3094 :) I borrowed the number examples. :)
@PauloCereda Oh, nice!
@egreg I'm terrible with numbers. :P
Joseph is now our Lua expert, right? :)
Finally, something good coming from Brazil. :P
@DavidCarlisle Yes it was my suggestion )and I have seen the removal of white space in another directory. I wanted to see, if there are some last-minute changes. (There were, e.g. ltnews21.tex, thus I made a new release of latex-tds. Happily babel is no longer part of latex-tds.)
10:39 AM
Q: Time passed from a specific date

REACHUSI would like to put in my resume N years experience in Java where N would be generated based on the date provided in the LaTeX file. Preferably in rounded years, i.e. If the beginning date was 2012-06-04 and the output was generated on 2014-04-04, then the N would be 2.

Guys, is this possible?
I can provide an hybrid solution.
That is, with no TeX at all. :P
@JosephWright Sorry for asking here. Could you link me to a post on this side or the page in your manual, explaining the different spacing in this MWE: `\documentclass{article}
$0,7 = \num{0,7}$
should I always use \num for any decimal in my formulae?
@PauloCereda I wish
@HeikoOberdiek @DavidCarlisle Hopefully have now got the hang of this business: stray spaces should be stripped from all of the L3 stuff (at least all of the .dtx files)
@LaRiFaRi If you want the 'auto-formatting'
@LaRiFaRi Note that as it stands your spacing will be wrong in the simple 0,7 case
@LaRiFaRi \num is relatively slow: I'm hoping to improve it but it needs some time!
but why is the spacing wrong for the simple case? Every "normal" user (strange to call people, not knowing siunitx, normal...) would just type 0,7 in an equation
are the always set wrong? Why is the so?
@JosephWright can't find 'auto-formatting' in your documentation. Which approach would you recommend? Of course, correct spacing (and as a plus, the grouping) would be nice without using \num in every formula
Q: German language: use of comma in numbers

Christian LindigIn German the comma rather than the period is used as a decimal separator and the dot is used as a thousands separator: 12.345,67. The comma creates some unwanted space when used as in $12.345,67$. Is there a light-weight package or some macro to support this? (I'm not looking for automatic forma...

@LaRiFaRi icomma is a much 'lighter' solution if you don't need to be able to quickly reformat for non-German use
@JosephWright and an other topic, as you seem to like xparse (or write it?): Couldn't solve this issue with normal macros or with xparse tex.stackexchange.com/q/175577 But not my problem. Just in case you wanna try.
10:54 AM
@LaRiFaRi @DavidCarlisle and Frank Mittelbach wrote it (I think): I just do fixing things!
@JosephWright Thanks for the link. Thats interesting. Strange, I never noticed that before. Thanks for your time.
Yay @topskip is here!
BachoTeX was sooooo nice!
Lots of Piwo :)
(a.k.a. beer)
@PauloCereda Yes, of course.
Unfortunately there's no “Too stupid” reason for closing.
Q: A quick way to determine whether a number is prime by hand

zscoderI need a quick way to determine whether a number is prime by hand. Any suggestions?

@egreg He could try a sieve of Eratosthenes using his hands. The method works for primes < 10. :P
11:10 AM
@zscoder If you participate to a math contest, you should know immediately that $4\,294\,967\,297$ is not prime. — egreg 18 secs ago
@egreg LOL
1 hour later…
12:17 PM
@DavidCarlisle Really getting the hang of this 'sweep over the whole repo' thing :-) Nex step: install GOW for my Parallels Windows installation on my Mac to avoid line-ending disasters!
@JosephWright so that means you have a unix-based oprating sustem running windows in a virtual machine over that and then install a set of unix-emulating tools in the virtual machine? makes sense to me:-)
@DavidCarlisle Yup
@DavidCarlisle Make life easier for testing stuff
@JosephWright sure it sounds almost logical:-) meanwhile I've just been "upgraded" to an office365 mail server so if I you send me mail it'll probably be stuck in Seattle somewhere.
@DavidCarlisle :-)
@DavidCarlisle Mainly for the LaTeX2e stuff that I need the Gnu tools on my Windows VM: the build scripts are now Win-only, so I have to checkout the files using SVN on Windows and that means CRLF line-ends. For L3 work, I can get away with most things!
12:37 PM
@JosephWright we could set the eol property in svn so unix line endings were used whatever platform.
@JosephWright which is why I have to do a balancing act to get it to work under cygwin. for latex2e-public not so bad as there are only 4 or 5 bat files, but for l3 there are dozens of the things, and I don't have a working setup yet....
@DavidCarlisle That did occur to me :-)
@DavidCarlisle Don't the Makefiles work with Cygwin?
@JosephWright oh the l3 ones? I don't know, the 2e ones assume cons works which is an optimistic assumption
@DavidCarlisle L3 assume something Unix-like, but hopefully not too much beyond that (we had some bash-only stuff I'd picked up by copy-pasting, but that got removed)
@JosephWright tl2014 update this morning seemed to give me an expl3 updated but not latex yet.
@JosephWright I'll try typing make somewhere see what happens
@DavidCarlisle Anyway, I'm going to do some revisions on them to try to bring more into line with the L2e ones Frank wrote plus to have more similar behaviour on Windows and Unix
@DavidCarlisle Cool
@DavidCarlisle Start with something simple :-) (l3kernel make unpack, perhaps)
12:42 PM
:15362717 $ make unpack
echo "Unpacking files"
Unpacking files
cd /tmp/l3test/test/l3kernel ; \
for I in l3.ins l3doc.dtx ; do \
  tex $I > /dev/null ; \
@JosephWright so trying top level make check: what could go wrong:-)
@DavidCarlisle :-)
@DavidCarlisle Like I say, I'm planning to do some revisions of all of these, hopefully this week: let me know if there is anything I need to consider for Cygwin
@JosephWright although longer term it would probably be good to just have one set of build scripts rather than you having to maintain make and bat in parallel
@DavidCarlisle Suggestions on how to achieve this?
@DavidCarlisle The only obvious approach is to write everything in Lua and use texlua
I guess I could look at that
@JosephWright I was wondering if there is a simple enough implementation of a bat interpreted for linux or mac (ie without invoking all of wine) but basically the bat files only need some tests and some loops, it ought to be able to run them in linux...
@DavidCarlisle The aim was to avoid requiring more stuff than absolutely required (otherwise I guess writing Makefiles that work on Windows would be an option): like I say, Lua is perhaps the best plan as it allows a move to 'just needs a modern TeX system', which we assume anyway.
I know the TeX Live scripts have all gone that way
12:50 PM
@JosephWright yes lua sounds sensible but since we assume perl anyway it would be more fun to do some perl to convert and execute the bat files on the fly ie automating this tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/dosbatch.html
@DavidCarlisle I was thinking if things were written in Lua then there wouldn't be any Perl requirement :-)
1:01 PM
@JosephWright that does seem to be the sensible route
@JosephWright speaking of lua do you understand the luabase packaging stuff? I removed it all in my inputenc trials to avoid having half of contrib as a dependency, but I may have removed too much and if you load fontenc later it gives me a wrap over the knuckles for not using luatexbase interface and using the primitive calbacks directly.
@DavidCarlisle One for @HeikoOberdiek, I think!
@JosephWright yes well it was mostly his stuff I was avoiding:-)
@JosephWright meanwhile make check passes except for two:
@DavidCarlisle A quick look at Lua suggests sorting out some form of make scripts should be doable
@DavidCarlisle One each from xfss and template?
$ find /tmp/l3test -name \*.diff
@DavidCarlisle Yes: the standard ones
1:11 PM
@JosephWright so all good then damn now I've no excuses:)
@JosephWright lualatexbase is not me, try Élie Roux et. al.
@HeikoOberdiek Ah
@HeikoOberdiek It was clear enough what it's doing, but if we were to make inputenc work better on luatex out of the box it would be good to pull in some lua without the following. It's easy to do that but then you don't get the benefit I assume the package loader gives of loading multiple cooperative packages, so some middle way I think, but luainputenc currently does:
lualatex \\RequirePackage{luainputenc} \\stop


which is fine for a contributed package but not for the core I think.
1:32 PM
@topskip Great! Time for a quick German report about the BachoTeX? :-) (I never visited one, yet)
@StefanKottwitz oh well, I guess I won't find the time for it...
@DavidCarlisle Communicate with the authors of luainputenc. I have never used this package.
@topskip: gotta love the Sorry David part. :)
@egreg: Del Piero makes a cameo in Pat's keynote. :)
@PauloCereda Who's Pat?
@egreg me
1:42 PM
@topskip Let me see, then!
@egreg Our beloved Patrick. :)
@PauloCereda I really like the Del Piero picture.
@topskip me too! :) I missed some ducks though. :)
@topskip But not with LuaTeX! The original has LaTeX!
@HeikoOberdiek yes will once I have my head round the issues, although it's not really the details of that package as with the luatexbase stuff
@PauloCereda is there something I should be reading?
1:45 PM
@DavidCarlisle Patrick's keynote. :)
@DavidCarlisle xii.tex makes a cameo.
@PauloCereda No! David should not read the slides. I make fun of TeX using xii as an example.
@egreg ..which was an obvious mistake. It's the LuaTeX team who is sponsoring Del Piero
2:00 PM
@topskip So how would you see this in relation to going beyond LaTeX2e: are we wasting our time entirely? Should we instead be defining some input format to be translated to Lua (much as Jonathan Fine would like but with s/Python/Lua/g)?
@JosephWright No, I don't think so. There is a huge area for "classic LaTeX documents" (say homeworks, books, and more advanced things). I believe that should stay the same, while admitting it's not always the perfect way to go
@topskip And xparse :-(
@topskip Phew :-)
@JosephWright Sorry about that, but acutally nobody in the room was able to tell what exactly was going on
@topskip Well you did pick quite a complicated internal part
@JosephWright that was my intention, of course (I wanted to make a point and the more complicated the code looks, the better my point is)
2:08 PM
@topskip oopsie. :)
@topskip Of course: I'd have gone for something from Bruno :-) (l3regex or l3fp)
@JosephWright yes, I was a bit in a hurry doing the slides, of course I had them prepared right at the conference during the (polish) talks
@JosephWright My customers would never want to touch (La)TeX code, that's why I hide it completly. But this also means, it's limited to the functionality that I provide, and I know many people who would not accept that limits.
@topskip Makes sense
I have finally put some examples online: speedata.github.io/publisher/manual/examples-en/index.html
@topskip What a strange feeling of deja vu ;-) I feel like I'm back in 2005 :-)
2:22 PM
@StephanLehmke no cow.pdf there :)
Hi, anyone knows, how I refresh my font-cache for LuaLaTeX?
I deinstalled a font but still can use it
Windows XP, MikTeX
@topskip The cow came much later.
Apostolos Syropoulos sent me a new version of the Asana Math font but now, I can't test it, because LuaLaTeX is still using some old stuff. Don't know, where that come from. I guess, Luaodfloat (is that written correct...) has built its database and I need to refresh this.
2:49 PM
Anyone else is having problem when trying to edit a post? After clicking "Edit", there's no edition window and the answer disappears.
@GonzaloMedina No problems here. I'm on Google Chrome.
@GonzaloMedina just tried to edit an existing answer and it all seemed OK (firefox)
Weird. I just logged our, and the logged in anf the problem is still there.
I cannot edit my answer nor add a comment.
@GonzaloMedina which browser?
@DavidCarlisle Firefox.
2:55 PM
@GonzaloMedina It's probably @egreg making sure he's the only one above 200K
found it. Just replaced the fonts in D:\MiKTeX\fonts\opentype\public\ Don't know, if this is the good way, but thus, I do not need a refresh of the font database.
and the symbols in tex.stackexchange.com/a/175432 look nice now. Good moment to stop there... good evening to you all.
@DavidCarlisle Hehe!
@DavidCarlisle Yes, of course!
@GonzaloMedina the site is very slow today the "notification" box menu just shows white for a while if I click on it, even though it went red to say I had a mesage, but it picked up eventually
@GonzaloMedina Party next week?
2:58 PM
@egreg Sure! Not sure if next week or the one after the next, though.
@GonzaloMedina You need about 10 days with a 245 average.
@egreg and egreg shows he can do arithmetic
@DavidCarlisle With the help of bc
@DavidCarlisle next time I'll find another example of obscure TeX code :)
So I just installed Chromium to be able to edit my answer and then I couldn't log into the chat room!
Fortunately, everything is now back to normal with Firefox.
3:53 PM
@topskip This is such a compelling argument for software patents though :-(
@GonzaloMedina Damn!
1 hour later…
4:57 PM
@PeterGrill you could use pgf but you could have run mine, printed it and had a cup of coffee before pgf has finished loading:-)
5:35 PM
@topskip Do you know somebody else who could tell us about the conference in a blog entry?
@topskip I don't know who was there.
2 hours later…
7:23 PM
Hello guys. Anyone know metafont (read: know metafont better than a total of 45 minutes)? I'm trying to find out if there's a smarter way to write the path in this answer:
A: Circle with a cross inside feynmp

hftfDisclaimer: I have never used Metafont before, and I also have only ever touched feynmf once. Please comment if I did any of this completely wrong. Since you never even provided a complete MWE, I just made this stuff up. I used the \fmfcmd macro to define a path, which I named otimes, to dra...

It seems really convoluted but I haven't been able to figure out a nicer way.
8:02 PM
Mathematical puzzle for today:
Q: How to determine the coordinate of roller coaster's wheels?

I am who I say I amI want to create an animation about roller coaster. For a simple track, for example, a circle, I can determine the position of the center of its wheel easily. However, for any parametric curve, I have no idea to determine the coordinates. Let's take a general case as follows. Given the para...

8:15 PM
… read only mode?
@SeanAllred Nope
@JosephWright :(
5 hours ago, by David Carlisle
@GonzaloMedina It's probably @egreg making sure he's the only one above 200K
@JosephWright @GonzaloMedina Forcibly barred from the lofty heights of the gods…
@DavidCarlisle No problem for me. ;-)
@DavidCarlisle Got a tick for an answer given on 8 September.
8:23 PM
@egreg No doubt trying to gain a more significant lead. 300k is in sights…
Also, that's a long time coming…
@SeanAllred Quite. It should happen around my birthday.
@egreg A present from us to you :)
@SeanAllred :) <3
8:38 PM
Just found out that I need 50 more pgfplots answers to get a badge :) Though i have enough coins.
I should have pushed when everybody was tagging pgfplots together with TikZ :P
@egreg: July 9th and August 2nd are important dates. :)
@hftf Here's how I'd do it
path qc[],otimes;
qc[1] = (0,0) -- (.5,0) & quartercircle & (0,.5) -- (0,0);
qc[2] = qc[1] rotated 90;
qc[3] = qc[1] rotated 180;
qc[4] = qc[1] rotated 270;
otimes = (qc[1] & qc[2] & qc[3] & qc[4] -- cycle) rotated 45;
NOOO! :)
@HenriMenke It just gets worse
@HenriMenke The race is fair now. Start your MWEs
8:45 PM
@percusse Add great plots to older questions and let me know, for publishing in the pgfplots.net gallery ;-) Most examples are from Jake and Christian
@percusse (Suddenly, the whirr of thousands of fans begins as Emacs loads up)
@StefanKottwitz For a very good reason :)
Hi, @PauloCereda. Is there any hope for compiling with knitr via arara? I tried writing a rule for this, but I can't seem to get things working, and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
@SeanAllred Oh my god. Does that mean, that I have to actually work now?
@StefanKottwitz I saw that actually. But I'll try to come up with stuff I had to pull off in the thesis :)
8:46 PM
@AdamLiter Hello! :) I could take a look at your rule. :)
@HenriMenke Not if you're clever. ;)
@AdamLiter Concerning arara: Have you examined the manual? It is pretty extensive about rules.
@SeanAllred like so?
There are probably children out there holding down spacebar to stay warm in the winter! YOUR UPDATE MURDERS CHILDREN.
@HenriMenke xkcd.com/1172
@percusse that... that was uncanny.
@PauloCereda You could probably stand a gain some reputation for it, too. :-) I asked a question about it here:
8:47 PM
@percusse yes, precisely XD
@percusse Great! I'm looking for further plot examples. Such as from real life, like from a thesis. And your great solutions here, with some flesh around.
@HenriMenke I have looked at the manual, but I haven't been able to figure out what I'm doing wrong. There are more details in the question that I linked to.
@StefanKottwitz I hope I can keep the bar as high as them. Those notorious plotters :)
Oh yea, my bode plot thingy... hmm...
8:50 PM
@percusse Can Emacs do it? Yes, of course.
@egreg This is hanged on the computer next to an IT guy in the office. That's how I know. And as being Dutch he is full speed vim user :)
@AdamLiter Oh my, I missed that completely, sorry. One of the things I can already point out is that I did a terrible mistake in the manual. :P Try ^(\s)*%\s+ instead of ^(\\s)*%\\s+. I suspect we will get another error, but at least we move on. :)
@egreg Also he showed me this
8:52 PM
@PauloCereda It's on and off. E.g., I can edit right now… somehow…
@SeanAllred Witchcraft!
TL2013 is frozen, TeX.sx is frozen, my hands are frozen, I hate that song from Disney's Frozen...
@PauloCereda I swear, I could not! Innocent! Innocent! Innnogarblagrablblglubglubglub
@SeanAllred Uh-oh! :)
@percusse Can't read it. ;-) The radio has the “Ave verum corpus” by William Byrd.
@PauloCereda You need to let go of your hate.
Just let it go.
8:54 PM
@SeanAllred I see what you just did. :P
You know you get a weird serendipidipididpdiipdipdipdity when you realize that all this emacs / vim thingy is irrelevant if you are not coding like crazy :) I can manually fix 6 mistakes in the code by Find/Replace while the dude is fine tuning his emacs.
@SeanAllred LOL
@egreg Haha fair enough.
@PauloCereda :)
8:55 PM
An editor that surely deserves some love is Geany.
@PauloCereda Thanks! It at least finds the directive now when arara myfile is called, though I still get the same error if arara myfile.Rnw is called. The new error is A problem was detected in the 'knitr' task. The 'knitr.yaml' file located at '/Users/adamliter/Dropbox/Local-texmf/arara/rules' requires a valid list of arguments. Could you fix it? Note that the list of arguments can also be empty, but it is still necessary to define it explicitly (with 'arguments: []').
Finally it's back up so I can vote on @AdamLiter's question.
(Incidentally, does the full path have to be specified? arara couldn't find the rule when the path was ~/Dropbox/Local-texmf/arara/rules, so I had to give it the full path.)
@egreg Thank you @egreg. I'm gonna try that out and figure out how it works
8:57 PM
@AdamLiter Try:
identifier: knitr
name: knitr
command: <arara> Rscript -e "library(knitr); knit('"@{getBasename(file)}".Rnw')"
arguments: []
Then let's move to the next problem. :P
@HenriMenke ?
@HenriMenke Ah XD
@SeanAllred Typo. But I also vote for your questions :D
@HenriMenke :D <3
Wrecking balls.
@PauloCereda Huh, interesting. So it runs and says SUCCESS, but there is no .tex file that gets written to the directory, which is what running knitr should do...
9:01 PM
@AdamLiter lalalalala can't hear ya lalalalala it says SUCCESS lalalalalalala <3
@PauloCereda this is the link you were looking for
@AdamLiter Let me try in here. I probably need to install this contraption. :)
carry on. Click it
@percusse Clicked.
I feel no regret
9:02 PM
@PauloCereda Hahah, okay. Sounds good! Thanks for your help so far, too. I appreciate it!
@percusse LMAO
@PauloCereda They deserve each other
@AdamLiter My pleasure, I didn't know about your question.
@percusse Mullets, man.
@egreg Much nicer. Thanks again. I couldn't find that & operator for some reason……
@percusse: I was expecting a cameo from Mr. Cyrus with the don't break my heart my achy breaky heart line. :P
9:05 PM
@PauloCereda On the other hand i can't get enough of this
I wonder then if there's a way, instead of setting each explicitly, to automate setting qc[i] = quarter rotated 90*i or something like that.
It needs some volume for the ambiance
Hmmm I think I got it
@percusse Wow.
I want it all is an amazing twist
9:07 PM
@percusse: I lost at I'm afraid of no ghost. :)
Hahaha, but it's tough to beat
@AdamLiter: just a minute, I found out I need R. :)
@PauloCereda no worries! Sorry for not clarifying that in the question. :-)
@AdamLiter Nah don't worry. :)
Hmm, I shortened it down to this but it still seems more verbose than necessary
path quarter, q[], otimes;
quarter = (0,0) -- (.5,0) & quartercircle & (0,.5) -- (0,0);
for i=1 upto 4: q[i] = quarter rotated (45+90*i); endfor
otimes = q[1] & q[2] & q[3] & q[4] -- cycle;
9:16 PM
Some user with a LessPop_MoreFizz nickname asks this
Q: Raper vs. Rapist; Why the shift in suffix?

LessPop_MoreFizzI've always been vaguely aware of 'raper' as an alternative to 'rapist', as a vaguely wrong sounding, possibly archaic formulation - nowadays, it's most often heard from speakers of English as a second language, for whom the construction is slightly irregular compared to other similar verbs. But...

@hftf It connects two paths, provided the first ends where the second one starts.
@egreg you should write short snappy answers that don't take months to read,
@DavidCarlisle That one is pretty short. Possibly the OP needed so much time because of \pdfpkresolution=8000
@egreg as is customary, I didn't actually look at your answer:-)
@percusse “Rapist” always recalls this quotation from the TeXbook: But computers are notoriously bad at hyphenation. When the typesetting of newspapers began to be fully automated, jokes about “the-rapists who pre-ached on wee-knights“ soon began to circulate.
9:30 PM
@egreg Hahaha. Spot on
By the way I didn't know that ELL is also that notorious in terms of competition.
oh this one is ELU
i meant ELU ... meh
when two reviewers rant about a paper (one of them is yours truly), this always happens; a third reviewer pops up and writes stuff like this :
This paper is well organized. The presentation of this paper is clear. The related research methods are clearly presented and explained. The mathematic derivations and proofs are rigorous. Previous work in this paper has been reviewed and the references are adequate. This is a solid and publishable manuscript.
Eternal spanking seems the only option here.
anyone got any idea what this code is trying to do? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/175729/…
@percusse Sounds copy-pasted
9:49 PM
@PauloCereda I've got to run. I'll probably be back in a little bit, but thanks again for the help so far!
@DavidCarlisle xii.tex is clearer.
@egreg that is the gold standard in clear, well laid out TeX code.
1 hour later…
11:01 PM
@egerg: I thought the OP ONLY wanted the portions within \text to be bolded?
@PeterGrill Then the thing is wrong anyway.
11:39 PM
So... what happens if I get a straight flush? ;) tex.stackexchange.com/users/46230/…
It's mostly out of the question because it takes soooo long to get answers accepted

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