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5:45 AM
Keeping the unanswered list down is a constant challenge
How does this idea sound: we agree a regular (once a month) slot to discuss unanswered questions here on chat? Something like "First Wednesday in the month, 1900-2100 GMT is the 'unanswered question' session on chat"
7
We could then try to get a few awkward questions dealt with without too much waiting for comment feedback
 
6:31 AM
I've been having a hack at the unanswered list: the odd vote or comment on some of the questions I've tackled would be great, as it will help get them off the list!
 
 
4 hours later…
10:57 AM
For all Ubuntu/Debian Linux users: Check out the StackApplet which displays notifications about any stackexchange site (new comments, new reputation)
 
11:14 AM
I'm looking through the source of polyglossia now and just can't get what is the advantage of writing code in plain TeX files and then using a script to merge everything in one .dtx by including each of the source files inside \begin{macrocode} … \end{macrocode}. This completely defeats the purpose of .dtx!
 
12:13 PM
@JosephWright: I had now the following idea: The source code on CTAN is pulled using rsync once a day by an automatic script running on some server (like my small virtual one), which then commits it into a VC repository hosted by some open source host (sourceforge, bitbucket, github, etc.). This would affectively archive the source code, allow the check-out of old versions and costs us almost nothing. The repository would be of course only read-only and not be used to publish new stuff on CTAN.
 
12:26 PM
Is it off topic to ask how to proceed when you defined a certain relation, e.g. of A and B, and you want to make or combine some existing symbols to create their relation symbol?
 
12:51 PM
@MartinScharrer How were you thinking the \@startsection thing would work? \preto{\@startsection}{\addlineno} seems to break.
 
@Seamus: 364 rep points to go! =)
 
@PauloCereda yeah. I got way more rep than I expected from a simple question about footnotes. The answer was just the ol' \footnotemark \footnotetext trick, but it got me like 60 rep...
OK. Must stop editing my answer to the extended draft mode question...
 
@Seamus I simply love the "please, don't" appeal of that question. It reminds me of dark times when I had to create a \subsubsubsubsubsection.
 
@PauloCereda heh. Yeah. I did once suggest a don't do this tag. But I was {status-declined}. I think it's probably right that it shouldn't be a tag. But sometimes...
 
If there's , there ought to be
 
1:04 PM
@Seamus Ah, I like that tag! We could also create synonyms for don't do this: no way josé, wtfcode, lolcode. My favorite is kitten killing.
 
@N.N. I guess the argument is that tags are supposed to help categorise the questions. Arguably is a useful category. But how would help someone find the information they need?
 
@Seamus Indeed, I wasn't serious
 
@N.N. Oh right. I had an Internet Irony Fail.
 
@Seamus or I wasn't communicating effectively!
 
Hi
 
1:07 PM
@ks0830 hey
 
what's that sound!
 
@ks0830 If there's a message sent starting with "@youralias" you'll be notified
 
Oh i got it
Thanks
 
@ks0830 You can kill the sound by messing with the sound notification icon in the top left
 
@ks0830 I know there isn't much going on, but please stop spamming
if you want to experiment with chat, go to the Sandbox
thanks...
 
1:23 PM
Can etoolbox patch a command and have access to that commands arguments? I can't seem anything about it in the manual...
 
1:34 PM
@Seamus Technically it should be possible.
 
@MartinScharrer It doesn't look like etoolbox can do it "out of the box". I'm sure it is possible though...
 
@Seamus Yeah, it might be more difficult to do, did you tried just using #1 or ##1 inside \pretocmd?
 
Newbie alert: I always had the curiosity to know what ##1 means.
 
@PauloCereda You can escape a # by doubling it.
 
@MartinScharrer Oh, got it!
 
1:40 PM
This is required if you use \newcommand inside a macro.
\newcommand{\foo}[1]{\newcommand{\bar}[1]{#1: ##1}}
So \foo{Hello} will define \bar so that \bar{World} outputs Hello: World.
 
@MartinScharrer Neither #1 nor ##1 work. They just get printed out.
 
@Seamus works for me:
\def\A#1{Test (#1)}
\pretocmd{\A}{[#1] }{}{}
\show\A
> \A=macro:
#1->[#1] Test (#1).
 
@MartinScharrer This doesn't work: \pretocmd{\input}{\texttt{#1}}{}{} I guess this is something to do with input rather than etoolbox not being able to do it.
 
$ latexdef input

\input:
macro:->\@ifnextchar \bgroup \@iinput \@@input
The \input macro (LaTeX) doesn't take any argument itself. So you need to always look closer.
 
1:56 PM
@MartinScharrer Ah right. I see. So that's why patching it doesn't work. So I need to patch \@iinput I think... Hmm. This looks harder than I thought...
 
@Seamus: Just use my filehook package instead! :-)
 
That does look like it would make things easier.
Why do I get the feeling you already have an excellent answer to your extended draft options question but you're just testing us...
2
 
@Seamus :-) No, I really don't.
 
\AtBeginOfInputs{#1} breaks and tells me off for using macro parameter characters in vertical mode...
 
2:20 PM
@Seamus The argument was removed in one of the newer versions. Use \currfilename (from the sibling package currfile) instead as mentioned in the manual.
 
Ah right. I was just checking out currfile...
\AtBeginOfInputs{\marginpar{\texttt{\currfilename}}}
 
2:36 PM
OK. that's the last editing of this answer for now!
1
A: Extended draft mode which includes source information for manual print-out to source synchronisation

SeamusHere is a first very sketchy proof of principle. It uses KOMA script's scrpage2 package, but I'm sure fancyhdr and the like will do just as well. the inside head has the first linenumber of the page and the inside foot has the last linenumber and marginpars for section linenumbers. Also now work...

Following @JosephWright 's suggestion:
0
Q: Regular "Let's deal with unanswered questions" chat meetings?

SeamusJoseph Wright suggested in chat that we arrange to meet regularly in chat to discuss unanswered questions. He said: How does this idea sound: we agree a regular (once a month) slot to discuss unanswered questions here on chat? Something like "First Wednesday in the month, 1900-2100 GMT is...

2
 
@Seamus Thanks. I will have a closer look on it tonight.
 
@MartinScharrer everything but graphics and paragraph hooks works. (And floats are suboptimal. But it's good enough for me! It's a really good idea by the way: I think I will use this code myself! I may even package it up and send it to CTAN what do you think?
oldschoolreversesync.sty
 
@Seamus I package would be nice.
 
I'll put something on github this afternoon and then we'll see whether there are any improvements suggested before posting to CTAN. I'll wait until Monday at least for weekday tex.sx-ers to have a look...
What should I call it? extradraft.sty?
 
2:55 PM
@Seamus No, I don't like extradraft.
@Seamus Apropos Github. I'm planning to move away from Subversion. I read a little bit about Hg and saw Bitbucket. Do you have any experience with that too and can compare it to Git and Github?
 
colourchange.sty is very cool! =P
 
I only know git so github was the obvious choice... I don't have experience of any other system...
@PauloCereda Heh. Thanks. I thought so. [It actually slows down compilation quite a bit on big documents though...]
inputlines.sty?
 
Ah, colourchange not colorchange! I couldn't find it first.
 
Yeah. I'm a curmudgeonly Brit who insists on spelling words in British English.
(I did put in macro aliases in colourchange.sty for the American spellings)
I do write "program" rather than "programme" for computer programs, though. I think that's engrained enough that it's become a distinct word that can have a distinct spelling...
 
@Seamus I love British English. I had so much influence of it (I probably watched too much Monty Python, jolly good!).
 
3:06 PM
\usepackage[british-english]{babel} (or whatever it should be) should define a load of aliases for common US spelling macros: \let\itemise\itemize, \let\textcolour\textcolor...
 
@Seamus: Could you suggest me some cool colors to use in \selectcolourchanges?
 
@Seamus While I'm also from the UK, after some thinking my feeling is 'pick one or the other'. As LaTeX was originally written by an American, I'm afraid that means 'color' 'center' (and of course 'math mode' from TeX itself)
 
@PauloCereda That's one of the drawbacks to colourchange: most pairs of colours mean that the transition is really quite ugly at some point. The simple blue to red change is probably my favourite. I think there's a defaultstyle option that makes it use that transition. (Or possibly blue to a slightly darker red...)
@JosephWright I have to admit that a lot of the time it's unconscious: when I uploaded colourchange to CTAN it just didn't register that this would be weird to most users.
I use emacs so its macro completion means I never really actually type all of itemize so I don't notice it a lot of the time...
 
@Seamus I've never really got on with the completion system in TeXworks, but as I like the editor I stick with it (I prefer the Ctrl-Space shortcut in WinEdt to the Tab in TeXworks, for a start)
 
@PauloCereda I think white to any colour or any colour to white would work. Although maybe the structural elements would look weird with white. No that wouldn't work since some of the structure elements are mixed with black... Well, you could try it out...
 
3:13 PM
@Seamus I'm using the Berkeley theme and blue to red looks pretty cool. I tried with green and it looks good in the middle, I'll probably try to set a darker green with \definecolor.
 
@JosephWright emacs doesn't have tab completion per se, but it has an "insert macro" command which then allows tab completion. Tab is used for alignment in emacs. I'm sure you could redefine ctrl spc to be the completion command in TeXworks...
 
Cool, I can define colors with their hex value! \definecolor{mygreen}{HTML}{55B55B}
 
xcolor has loads of different ways of defining colours.
 
@Seamus: I usually write US English for some reason, my co-supervisor now made me change my thesis to UK English because we are in Ireland. I lot of s/ize/ise/g etc. :-(
 
@MartinScharrer that seems a bit extreme. I write in British English, but I wouldn't think of forcing anyone else to do so!
 
3:24 PM
@Seamus My position is that anyone in Europe should use UK spellings
 
@Seamus: Note that currfile loads filehook already. I split the file hooks and names macros to two different packages. Originally I had them together.
 
(I get very annoyed that one of the German chemistry journals now uses US spellings, even though the publish is based in Germany and the UK)
Ireland and the UK have a strange legal relationship, so I can see the point
 
@JosephWright: I actually agree in principle. The US shouldn't have that much influence in Europe. However, I personally prefer US spelling over UK. It comes more naturally to me.
I think US English got influenced quite a bit from German settlers, that would explain that.
 
@MartinScharrer As someone in the UK, that says to me "I can't spell" :-)
 
I'm not sure what to think about who "should" use which spelling. i guess it's a matter of taste. I appreciate that a journal has to be consistent, but as long as all articles are in US english, I don't see what the problem is.
 
3:26 PM
Brazil and Portugal recently signed an ortographical reform. It still gaves me headaches to see why I should write a word that way instead of this way. Common words I used my whole life. =(
 
Language evolves and being too prescriptive is bad for the blood pressure.
 
@MartinScharrer It's more complex than that: some US spellings were common in the UK in the past, but were dropped more recently in the UK
@Seamus Well indeed: I find the German 'spelling reforms' bizarre, as to me spelling is a matter of current practice and cannot be changed by any 'official body'.
On the s/z business, there is actually more to it than US versus UK, as the OED has always favoured 'z' for some cases!
 
@JosephWright The spelling reform was "just" for official bodies anyway (governmental offices, schools, etc.)
 
There's a balance between preserving the rich heritage of a language and refusing to allow the language to evolve. I think the English laissez-faire attitude is better than the bizarrely stringent French system (I don't know about the German one)
 
@JosephWright I never bothered learning the new spelling. The only two things I recall is that you can now write 'dass' instead of 'daß' and that triple identical letters are OK now.
 
3:30 PM
There are some neologisms that grate, but oh well.
I heard someone say "do you have availability for a meeting" to a colleague recently. I almost cried
 
@MartinScharrer Noooo, The Eszett! Just when I finally got to understand it...
 
@PauloCereda In Switzerland they killed it off years ago. :-(
 
@PauloCereda The Eszett is quite interesting from a typography POV, as it is actually the long-s and short-s ligature. This used to be used in English, for example, when we used a long-s.
There was an article in the latest TUGboat about the long-s - it's complicated!
 
@JosephWright It's also used as a ligature for s-z.
 
@JosephWright Cool! I didn't know it. The first time I saw it I thought it was some sort of \beta symbol (my bad, my bad).
 
3:35 PM
 
@MartinScharrer I've not come across that, but I will take your word for it
 
@JosephWright The German Wikipedaia article for it lists both forms, long/short-s and s-z.
 
@PauloCereda You do have to look carefully. Find a good-quality font with a long-s, and compare the shape with the first part of the Eszett. They should be the same, more or less.
@MartinScharrer From a computing POV, that implies the same glyph for two different underlying letter combinations (you get the same with some old English letters. I forget which ones - yogh and wynn?)
 
@JosephWright: Other thing: We sometimes have migrated questions from unregistered users which never bother creating an account here as well. Does it make sense to CW these questions after a while?
 
@MartinScharrer What would be the benefit?
 
3:49 PM
I just voted the following question as "too localized". Somehow I thought the desciption "This question is unlikely to ever help any future visitors" quite fitting. Please let me know if you think this reasoning doesn't hold water.
2
Q: Overfull hbox on a tiny equation ?

My microscopic equation is 2.8 points too wide for some reason, which is quite a lot. I am reluctant to ignore the warning because if I get more of them I'll start missing important things. Code is: Applying Snell's law (Equation \eqref{eq:snell}) twice gives us: \begin{align} \theta_2 &am...

 
@HendrikVogt With no proper MWE, it certainly is going to be hard to answer
 
@JosephWright This questions are then kind of abandoned and belong to no one. So CW popped into my mind.
 
@AlanMunn You can still edit it to blank it out completely, or to say "deleted as duplicate" or some stuff like that. The system might require you to enter some minimum of characters, but this is easily circumvented by inserting an HTML comment that will be invisible.
 
4:28 PM
@JosephWright: About my read-only repository idea I mentioned earlier (chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/1364017#1364017).
What do you think about it?
 
5:02 PM
@MartinScharrer I wonder about how much space you'd end up needing. There would need to be an initial mirroring of all of CTAN, which is not small.
Of course, if you have the time to set such a thing up then it may well be of some interest to some people
I guess the question is how many people really need this, especially as the TeX Live SVN already covers quite a bit
 
@JosephWright I mainly target the package sources, so basically the macros folder only. Maybe even only macros/latex/contrib and there only the source files. This is already a couple of hundred MB but small compared to the whole CTAN.
 
@MartinScharrer As I say, I think the only real way to judge this is to try it and see!
 
5:25 PM
@JosephWright Today seems to be your "badge day". :-)
 
@lockstep Chasing down a few old unanswered questions
 
@JosephWright And writing nice answers in the process.
 
5:50 PM
Suggestions for a beamer theme: Berkeley, Szeged, or ...?
 
6:02 PM
@HendrikVogt Thanks, Hendrik. That makes it look less annoying. (It also caused the question to bump to the top again, which I wasn't expecting.)
@PauloCereda I use CambridgeUS modified with my university's colours.
 
@AlanMunn CambridgeUS is a great theme! But for some reason, the bullets don't look good, probably SumatraPDF's rendering. =(
 
@PauloCereda Well there's no accounting for bad taste in OS choice. (Just kidding. They look fine in Adobe Reader and Preview on a Mac, though.)
 
6:18 PM
@AlanMunn hehe, I second your comment. =P I'll probably try it on my Mac, but I still have to install MacTeX. =(
 
@PauloCereda You might as well wait until the (imminent) 2011 version is released.
 
@AlanMunn That's the plan! =P
 
@AlanMunn Sorry, I could have told you. Now people with <10K rep will wonder why the question was bumped :-)
 
@AlanMunn: I remember back in dark times when I was required to make presentations using Keynote. Now think of typesetting math into Keynote. I used a handy LaTeX to image app to import those images.
 
6:40 PM
@PauloCereda LaTeXit! It's still a fantastic app. I use it for making trees for posters and for the times when I'm using Powerpoint with unenlightened co-authors.
 
@AlanMunn Fantastic indeed! I regret having known it only now. =(
 
@JosephWright w.r.t times: How many people are up at 6:00 - 8:00 other than you? :-) I suspect that a late evening GMT time would actually catch people on both continents better.
 
@AlanMunn I was thinking far East/Australia, with some overlap with Europe (early morning, 0800-1000 central European summer time)
The times were just quick suggestions - let's have a few approaches and see what fits most/more people
I guess we can add such an event to the mod-controlled banner, to try to attract chat 'non-regulars'
 
@JosephWright True. Sorry for being so NA-centric. I wonder how many people would be opposed to a weekend day. This would likely give more flexibility on timing.
 
@AlanMunn I'd personally favour the weekend, but some people have real lives I guess!
2
How about 0900-1100, 1400-1600 and 2100-2300 (GMT) as slots? That should cover most of the day, with a slight emphasise toward times that are comfortable in Europe as we seem to have a significant number of active members here.
4
Then we just have to pick a convenient day of the week: at the weekend, Sunday might be best as people tend to have things to do on Saturday (or is that just me)
2
 
7:12 PM
@JosephWright That sounds good. Sunday would be fine with me.
 
@AlanMunn Okay, let's see what other people think
 
7:55 PM
0
A: Regular "Let's deal with unanswered questions" chat meetings?

Joseph WrightA place to note down how this would work. Date/time First Sunday of each month Cycle of three time slots: 0900-1100 GMT 1400-1600 GMT 2100-2300 GMT Approach The moderator-adjustable banner would be set ~48 h before to state that a 'unanswered question session' was scheduled on chat. At ...

 
8:08 PM
@JosephWright: I'm a little confused, what's a "moderator-adjustable banner"?
 
@PauloCereda We can put a one-line banner-like statement on the main page, for 'useful announcement'
For example, there was one for the moderator election
 
@JosephWright I see. It's a pretty good idea!
If it's relevant, we could come up with an image-based banner. =)
 
@PauloCereda Text-only (that I know of)
 
@JosephWright Oh. My bad. =P
 
@PauloCereda The instructions say 'Some HTML is allowed.'
 
8:15 PM
@JosephWright Hm probably formatting code?
 
@PauloCereda Probably - I've only used text
 
@JosephWright On a second thought, it's probably better to leave the banner as text, since we have lots of ads and stuff going on in the front page. We are environment-friendly, so we won't pollute it. =)
 
9:18 PM
Back from a day off. :) 500+ km to Slovenia and back home; I'm very happy of my Honda (6000 km in less than three months).
I won't get 200 rep today, but the trip was wonderful.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:44 PM
@egreg I was already wondering ;-)
 
@MartinScharrer Well, it's 165 just now. :) The average is not compromised.
 
10:59 PM
@egreg Is that a car-Honda or a bike-Honda?
 
@AlanMunn A scooter, SW-T 600.
 
11:16 PM
@egreg Wow. That's quite a machine. I'm about to do 2000K, but in a Subaru, not a scooter!
 
11:45 PM
@AlanMunn Have a nice trip. Last saturday it was only 400 km, but with three 2000+ meter mountain passes. The highest one has 27 hairpin turns going up and 33 going down; it's a famous mountain for the "Giro d'Italia" if you know it. There's a monument to Fausto Coppi at the top. But with a motorbike it's way easier. :)
 
@egreg I once rode my bicycle from Basel to Milan, then to Venice and from there to Florence. The part from Bologna to Florence was much tougher than crossing the Alps.
 

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