@AlanMunn pong (sorry, today was really hectic)

@PauloCereda I'm so reliefed David didn't eat you!

@Skillmon quack <3

@daleif there is no earlier hook, only later ones, and it is the correct hook to add more material, see lthooks-doc.pdf.

@UlrikeFischer How goes MathML?

@JosephWright just working on it. Should be fine in the afternoon.

@UlrikeFischer Cool

@UlrikeFischer I'll be re-tagging all of my lectures :)

@DavidCarlisle what a crude way to place things :P

@Skillmon everyone should use more picture mode

@DavidCarlisle ooh

ooh California tagging dreaming

@PauloCereda \put(10,10){breakfast}

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle I meant the hardcoded lengths to get your watermark roughly in the middle of the page :P

@Skillmon yes I saw your version later. Although to be honest I suspect if i was doing this I'd use something closer to mine, the positioning is often done best by eye: maybe not exactly 45 degrees and maybe not exactly centre, especially if you have unequal margins, it depends what the actual watermark looks like

@DavidCarlisle yes, I wondered whether I should also provide a version that centres on the textblock...

@Skillmon you can't compete with elegant simplicity

@DavidCarlisle ooh vim

@DavidCarlisle still, I don't agree with the manual thingy unless OP is after real miniscule typographic improvements (in which case I wouldn't use a watermark in the first place, I find them all ugly)

Anyone have a good way of getting a tripple vert symbol into a newtxmath doc? I think fdsymbol and mathabx has one, but we'd rather not load the package and I'd like to typeset something better than the users |||a|||

@PauloCereda dinner

@daleif ⦀ is in stix(2) as \Vvert if you are not commited to tx

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{newtx}

\DeclareFontEncoding{LS2}{}{}
\DeclareFontSubstitution{LS2}{stix2}{m}{n}
\DeclareSymbolFont{slargesymbols}  {LS2}{stix2ex}   {m} {n}
\DeclareMathDelimiter{\Vvert}     {\mathord}  {slargesymbols}{"F2}{slargesymbols}{"F5}
\begin{document}

\[
  \left\Vvert \frac{A}{B} \right\Vvert
\]

\end{document}

@daleif ^^ tx apart from the ||| symbol which is taken from stix

Thus l/r versions via

Though it looks a bit strange with \lVert as the spacing between the bars are tighter. Naturally making it as a macro to it can be changed later if needed

@barbarabeeton x.com/TheFigen_/status/1823380090723414114

Is using \afterpage together with \restoregeometry a bad idea? And if yes, why?

I am trying to adjust the geometry on the first page of a chapter only in a twocol layout ... But I seem to be stuck. =(

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright @MarcelKrüger What should we do with luamml itself? Imho the options are to say "you must install it manually from the github" or upload as an individual package to ctan or add the files to latex-lab. And I just learned, that it requires unicode-math so I have to test for it ...

@UlrikeFischer We can force-load unicode-math, surely?

@JasperHabicht quite probably. At first because afterpage builds a group, and also you are probably too late for some settings. And generally use \restoregeometry etc only at places where you can add a \clearpage or at least a \newpage.

@UlrikeFischer I think right now we add to the lab, then revisit for the next dev

@UlrikeFischer Or are you going to simply refuse to load luamml if unicode-math is not loaded by the user?

@UlrikeFischer Hm, yes ... I also thought about using \enlargethispage but in twocol setting I would need that twice somehow

@JosephWright I think I will do that for now, forcing unicode-math is imho a too large change.

@UlrikeFischer Cool - but you know my view on this :)

@JosephWright ooh

@UlrikeFischer if @MarcelKrüger willing, probably separate ctan package and github under latex3 (so same as tagpdf for example)

@JosephWright I don't think we can force unicode-math if wanting to hit "most of arxiv" it would be different if just targetting new documents

@JasperHabicht I'd never use \afterpage in production (and almost every time I have seen \restoregeometry used I probably would not have used it)

@DavidCarlisle Well, would it be possible to somehow put a second \enlargethispage to the second column? This might also work ...

@JasperHabicht possiby, but why \enlargethispage? that's normally for in-document emergency final edit hand tuning of page breaks, not something that you would build in to the the standard layout code.

@daleif you could take all the vert delimiters from stix, so they matched?

@DavidCarlisle I am just wondering how I could change the layout of the first page in a twocolumn setting ... it seems tricky, but maybe I am just overlooking something

@DavidCarlisle one can not read the file back with pdflatex as it falls over stuff like <mi>𝑥</mi>. Should we try to adapt the reader or simply say that is lualatex only currently?

@JasperHabicht is the chapter heading just in one column, or spanning? normally you can do whatever page adustments you want in the one column part, but with no example, hard to guess

@DavidCarlisle I can come up with an example. I actually want to place a larger footer on the first page that spans both columns. Therefore I would like to decrease the text height on the first page.

@UlrikeFischer \DeclareUnicodeCharacter{1D465}{x} and a few thousand similar.... but why does it fail it is all more or less verbatim isn't it all it has to do is copy the bytes to theAF

@JasperHabicht that is quite trivial. You only need to change the height on the page before and back on the current page:

\documentclass[twocolumn]{article}
\usepackage{lipsum}
\textheight=5cm
\begin{document}
\textheight=20cm
\lipsum\lipsum \lipsum
\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer which is why 99% of newgeometry use doesn't need to be used;-)

@UlrikeFischer I'll look at the mathml reader...

@DavidCarlisle I'll try that, thanks. A good hint. But I have to check how to implement this in my case. I'll come up with an example later.

@DavidCarlisle sorry I need to recheck that. I'm not sure if the format is actually correct.

@UlrikeFischer It works for me if i copy test-mathml.txt to newfile-mathml.html and run newfile with pdflatex

@DavidCarlisle I managed to break the luamml file by disabling the dummy ...

@UlrikeFischer I blame @UlrikeFischer

@DavidCarlisle We are talking LuaTeX - do they even allow that?

@JosephWright hmm true, currently no but I guess they will by the time we get there, but yes ok for existing pdftex documents all we need is @UlrikeFischer not to corrupt the mathml file

@DavidCarlisle Quite - for 'new' documents which are tagged, we really do need to go Unicode - I guess team list for further discussion

@DavidCarlisle and urls that create half of mathml ;-). @MarcelKrüger I get a failure with a few commands like $\varGamma $. They give output like <mi mathvariant="normal">^^00</mi> and luatex then complains about invalid chars. Any idea how to correct that?

@UlrikeFischer \def\varGamma{\Gamma}

@UlrikeFischer what defines \varGamma ?

@DavidCarlisle amsmath. E.g. as \DeclareMathSymbol{\varGamma}{\mathord}{letters}{"00}. \varTheta is ok, that is overwritten by unicode-math. \usv_set:nnn {normal} {varTheta} {"1D6F3}

@UlrikeFischer ah yes so this is just "forgotton" 8-bit nonsense that unicode-math failed to over-write. I think the definition I gave above is correct then

@UlrikeFischer bug in unicode-math, essentially.

@DavidCarlisle ok, if I add this to amsldoc-tagged, rename the original html, then it compiles and agrees with the original html about the number of inserted math fragments:

\def\varGamma{\Gamma}
\def\varDelta{\Delta}
\def\varLambda{\Lambda}
\def\varXi{\Xi}
\def\varPi{\Pi}
\def\varSigma{\Sigma}
\def\varUpsilon{\Upsilon}
\def\varPhi{\Phi}
\def\varPsi{\Psi}
\def\varOmega{\Omega}
\def\dots{blub}

@DavidCarlisle if you want to try I pushed the branch, but I still need to add testfiles and adapt the changes.txt etc. But at first some tea ...

@UlrikeFischer thanks will try later

\def\dots{\unicodeellipsis} would probably do for now (fix for that coming up, but not today)

@DavidCarlisle compared to the ones from the tx math font, they look chunkier, so would be even chunkier if we replaced all. Plus this is for Springer, so better not.

@daleif ||| then, with some \mkern adjustments:-) (but not if you need \left\right to work)

@DavidCarlisle and could you also look at the longtable fix?

@UlrikeFischer yes, I'm famous for rapidly incorporating longtable fixes

@DavidCarlisle Haven't gotten far enough in the manuscript to see how much it gets used.

@UlrikeFischer You can alternatively add

\RegisterFamilyMapping\symsymbols{oms}
\RegisterFamilyMapping\symletters{oml}

Then the legacy math fonts should get picked up correctly.

@MarcelKrüger true but I think the fact that legacy fonts get used here is a bug in unicode-math, although I guess the var versions should really be \mathalpha so they pick up the current \fam rather than alias the mathord ones that use upright all the time.

@DavidCarlisle What I said on Skype ;)

@JosephWright not to me though? :-)

@MarcelKrüger that looks better ... At some time you will have to write a documentation what all this commands do ;-)

@MarcelKrüger how should we handle luamml? Do you want to sent it to ctan?

@UlrikeFischer Yes, I'll send it to CTAN this evening. Trying to write some documentation first...

@MarcelKrüger oh no

@UlrikeFischer as I say though I think it would be better to fix the fonts rather than use the wrong fonts then map to correct mathml

@UlrikeFischer If you redefine them they should probably be \def\varGamma{\mitGamma} etc, otherwise you loose the italic-ness.

ooh the Cologne Cathedral was completed on this day in 1880

@MarcelKrüger I didn't really try to define them in a sensible way, only so much to avoid an error while testing amsldoc-tagged.

@DavidCarlisle -- last time I looked, the "Unicode ellipsis" was much too squunched to look decent in math.

@barbarabeeton yes but better than blub

@barbarabeeton the amsmath \dots currently has issues with the tagging code (clashing lookahead...) we'll fix that so it's just a temporary thing to avoid low level unexpected \else errors

@DavidCarlisle -- only barely ,,, I do hope it can be fixed. If not, AMS will justifiably complain.

@barbarabeeton this is all in a branch only seen by 2 or three people so it's not too much of a concern……………………………

@DavidCarlisle -- Well, please don't let it escape.

@DavidCarlisle never

@JosephWright I'm unable to write a test in latex-lab that loads unicode-math. I get tons of error ! LaTeX Error: Encoding scheme TU' unknown.`. What is the format doing there??

@barbarabeeton don't worry, if it all goes wrong we can blame @UlrikeFischer

@DavidCarlisle -- Gert will sic Bär on you.

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@barbarabeeton ^^^ my bodyguard

@UlrikeFischer -- Yay! (That's an awfully small chainsaw ...)

@barbarabeeton it's a sword for slicing git repositories

@DavidCarlisle -- Oh, I thought it was a chainsaw for attacking @DavidCarlisle's fingers.

@barbarabeeton chainsaws have chains (there is a clue in the name)

@DavidCarlisle -- I don't see a name, but it looks like a Victorinox implement. (They've proved they can implement almost any kind of implement.)

@barbarabeeton it is a real, original multipurpose swiss knife

@UlrikeFischer -- Which is known here as Victorinox. Amazing hardware! Bär has such good taste.

@UlrikeFischer For some reason, this seems not to work when using \twocolumn[...].

@barbarabeeton that's the trade name not often used as such in UK where they are always generically known as "swiss army knife" used to be a popular airport purchase, less so these days as they are difficult to transport.

@DavidCarlisle -- Yes, traditionally known here too as "Swiss army knives". But since other merchandise (such as suitcases) is given the trademark/logo, that is now more widely used.

@UlrikeFischer Did you get that sorted? It's because the test suite is still rather 'classical' (forces LuaTeX to behave like pdfTeX, basically)

🯰🯱🯲🯳🯴🯵🯶🯷🯸🯹

ooh

digits

ooh

@DavidCarlisle I now came up with something like this:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{lipsum, graphicx}
\usepackage{titleps, afterpage}
\newpagestyle{firstpage}{
    \setfoot{large}{}{footer}
}

\NewDocumentCommand{\printtitle}{}{
    \thispagestyle{firstpage}
    \twocolumn[\huge The Title \bigskip]
    \sloppy\flushbottom
    \enlargethispage{-2cm}
    \afterpage{\enlargethispage{-2cm}}
}

\begin{document}
\printtitle
\lipsum
\lipsum
\end{document}

I can't just set the \textheight it seems, because the \twocolumn thing will be affected by that (because it is also a page?)

In my document this works, here it does not for some reason. I am struggling to understand the two-columns logic, I have to admit

@PauloCereda ^^^^ (for those who can't see the characters)

@StefanKottwitz Your book on TikZ is proving invaluable to me and I appreciate the work that went into it. Thank you.

@egreg ooh

@JosephWright yes I managed it by extending \cdp@list manually.

@PauloCereda I couldn't see them 😊

@egreg You are so behind the times (Unicode 13:-) shows here using Cascadia Code apparently

@DavidCarlisle “Strange” font.

@egreg @CarLaTeX Buon Ferragosto!