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07:05
@Skillmon Fair enough - but then we likely do want a 'new' name (and leaves @UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle and I working out how to tag existing presentations ...)
@Skillmon I agree basically: I am on record as saying beamer is good for users, horrible for programmers, and there are some aspects that need addressing (optional {}, I'm looking at you)
I have beamtime this week, so it's a great opportunity to work on tagged presentations - I will be spending a lot of time with not much else to do :)
cis
cis
I came closer and closer....
.....
.........
fontspec cannot find a font with a space in the fontname:

\newfontfamily\myfontD[Renderer=Harfbuzz]{Twemoji Mozilla.ttf}

Is there a setting / trick?
yo'
yo'
07:36
@cis Rename the file?
07:48
@cis on my system the filename has no space and \newfontfamily\myfontD[Renderer=Harfbuzz]{TwemojiMozilla.ttf} works fine.
@UlrikeFischer we merge the ho-tex typo PR but not make a new release?
cis
cis
@UlrikeFischer
Yes, I noticed that fontspec with the installed system font 'Twemoji Mozilla.ttf' doesn't mind the space.

Problematically, I have a program that outputs a font file called 'Twemoji Mozilla.ttf' (which is not necessarily the font called 'Twemoji Mozilla.ttf') - but then it doesn't find it (despite the correct Path=... .).
All I can do is rename it, as @yo' suggests.
@DavidCarlisle I haven't looked yet at the defails, but that was my thinking too.
@UlrikeFischer all looks good although Programm with two m's is sort of a badge for the collection shame to lose it really
@UlrikeFischer more generally this new policy of fixing typos in package doc a worrying trend, where will it end, will we have to start spelling the as the?
08:03
@DavidCarlisle ;-).
@cis well I tried with a local font font with space.ttf it worked without problems. But I do find it very dangerous to reuse an existing name for your own font.
@JosephWright Burn the optional {} with fire! :)
2
yo'
yo'
08:24
@DavidCarlisle So in other words, TikZ could patch \usetikzlibrary t work correctly, right?
yo'
yo'
@DavidCarlisle thanks :)
cis
cis
I'm at work. Not at the result. In the end I will name the font 52deckCOLR.ttf.
But the program outputs 'Twemoji Mozilla.ttf' with space.
yo'
yo'
@cis \usepackage{shellesc}\ShellEscape{mv "Twemoji Mozilla.ttf" TwemojiMozilla.ttf}
cis
cis
09:02
@yo' Hehe, ok
yo'
yo'
@cis but I recognize it's a dirty hack :D
cis
cis
@DavidCarlisle Is it not allowed to use these unicode-places?
@cis Those are non-printable control characters
@cis The ASCII range is ... well the ASCII range
09:17
@cis not allowed by who? You can use them, some fonts have them eg  shows as a box containing 00001 using the system fonts in this chat for me.
Everyone in the UK enjoying the Bank Holiday?
@JosephWright I assume you spend that time on thinking over the upcoming election.
user image
3
@mickep Er, no ^^^
I am spending the day in a portacabin
09:53
@JosephWright ooh a secret duck mission
ooh applum
@PauloCereda I'd like one cup full of strawberrums, please.
10:24
@JosephWright The LaTeX team locked you in to force you to progress? :)
10:43
@samcarter lol
@mickep :)
@PauloCereda Indeed
11:21
@JosephWright you haven't destroyed oxfordshire yet, it seems.
3
@DavidCarlisle Not yet
 
2 hours later…
13:33
@JosephWright … hey, I like the optional {} syntax! Keeps the frame syntax nice and compact :-) I know it’s nonstandard but does it actually cause issues?
@WillRobertson It's entirely at odds with the core LaTeX syntax ;)
@WillRobertson May not get far enough with this to succeed - at the moment my aim is 'make my lecture slides work so I can tag them' - and as I use \frametitle, the {} question can wait
@WillRobertson Want me to add you to the GitHub?
13:50
@WillRobertson It causes issues for users who would like to use a group as first thing in the frame
@WillRobertson what's standard in the TeX world? :)
14:45
@DavidCarlisle Would you miss Didcot?
@JosephWright well the power station's gone already
@DavidCarlisle :)
@DavidCarlisle Very true
@PauloCereda ooh, I love it!
15:00
@Skillmon <3
@PauloCereda yay, carrots! Here, have one as well: <3
15:11
l3kernel pre-release today, preparing the June 2024 LaTeX kernel release ...
@JosephWright so I have to run test suites :) Thanks for the notice.
@Skillmon No problem - I am running lots of tests, closing out PRs, etc.
@Skillmon As the picture earlier shows, I am having a 'fun' work day in a portacabin ... on a public holiday
@JosephWright, @DavidCarlisle -- how's the next ltnews coming along?
@barbarabeeton Frank has just finished one set of edits, Chris says he has some more suggestions - github.com/latex3/latex2e/pull/1353#issuecomment-2133627419
@barbarabeeton I'm just tidying up a few bits and pieces I've seen in the same branch
@barbarabeeton If you have the chance to look at the ltnews39 branch, that would be great - I'm hoping to have everything ready well before the nominal date ...
@JosephWright -- Thanks. We'll expect to include it in the next TUGboat. I'd rather not have any editing differences between that and what's distributed in the release.
15:26
@barbarabeeton Sure - like I say, we are for once a bit ahead of the nominal date so hopefully everything will be done text-wise for us today
16:05
@JosephWright "More important is likely that we have a documented (and illustrated) explanation of the model used." ... so if we would add i5.walmartimages.com/asr/… as illustration of the frame geometry to the beamer doc, all problems will be solved? :P
@samcarter :)
@samcarter In all seriousness, think we can pull it off?
@JosephWright I don't know enough about tagging to judge the feasibility of this part of the project, but creating a modern class to create slides sounds very much doable and also a necessary step forward.
16:21
@samcarter Cool - most of the tagging is not presenation-specific (though I do wonder about slide titles - I guess pull apart some output from PowerPoint, etc.)
@JosephWright titles are not really a problem, one can tag them as title or some heading. I'm wondering about commands without real output (the current \section in beamer) and "reused" output (overlays etc). There is still no complete model how to properly handle boxes that are used more than once.
@UlrikeFischer My point was rather that slide titles are not sections :) \section defines sections in beamer, as in article, it's just that they don't necessarily print out
From a TOC structure POV, \section is still the important thing
@UlrikeFischer One issue of course is that other things that make presentations don't really aim for the screen using PDFs ...
@JosephWright yes, but the implementation is not quite clear. You have a toc which should reference the section, but the section title is actually empty (ok, one can leave that out and link to the Sect structure).
@UlrikeFischer I can see the issue, certainly - tags are focussed on typeset output not strictly logical structure (e.g. my lectures use \section but typically no slides printing the sections - I just generate a TOC then talk about which section we are in)
I suspect that there are some significant restrictions on what is 'reasonable' for a tagged presentation slide - as the only sensible way to use such a PDF is not actually in presenting
@UlrikeFischer If, like me, you use a TOC in a presentation, the sections do show up as bookmarks :)
@UlrikeFischer My feeling on slide titles is they are more like captions
16:38
@JosephWright yes but I fear that the current api/screen reader do not handle that well. Assuming that they can jump from Sect to Sect, what should they read there?
@UlrikeFischer Like I said, I can see the issue - perhaps it's just me, but I don't think of sections in a presentation as something that should appear in the slides at all, rather it's so you can navigate the slides
@JosephWright Caption is certainly an option, or Title.
@UlrikeFischer First I need to get something working well enough for my job-at-hand: next year's lectures
:)
@JosephWright I quite agree, only if you navigate with a screen reader then you need some feedback if you can't see the small toc or whatevery you have visible on the slides to show the progress.
@JosephWright unrelated but do you need fragile if frame is no longer a command?
@UlrikeFischer You need fragile if you are going to save the frame contents to a file and read back, which you need for verbatim - if you apply to every frame, there would be a performance hit
But I guess we could try that out
16:45
Hey there! IoT will soon open a discussion on the future of the rule format for arara. The ultimate plan is to go full Lua, and would like to hear from everyone about syntax, structure, helper methods, etc. I am yet to write a proper proposal and announcement, so I will keep you all updated. Please let me know if you'd like to get involved in the shaping phase. Thanks! :) (cc @TeXnician)
4
@UlrikeFischer I think that is what I was getting at about 'restrictions' - if one is making a tagged PDF of slides, and at least if the aim is for it to be actually useful not just ticking a box, there will be some requirements of content that won't necessarily apply to a purely visual one, e.g. that section names, if used, have to appear 'in print' somewhere
One might argument that only 'handout' mode is sensible for tagging, of course, but there would still be a need to typeset things like section names
And that's not all stuff one can automate
 
2 hours later…
18:38
@JosephWright -- Let mr know when it's ready, please, Better still, tell e where to grab a copy.
@barbarabeeton Sure: I'll prod Chris again
@barbarabeeton Will be tomorrow at the earliest I guess - it's the middle of the night now for him
@JosephWright -- This arrangement of a spherical earth does get in the way sometimes. (Tomorrow I've got an appointment to check on the results of my cataract surgery, but so far, all's good,)
cis
cis
18:53
@UlrikeFischer I used xskak.sty again today.
I would like to know: What is the finction that I have 3 boards side by side at a xskakloop?
Couldn't I have 4 boards side by side?
\documentclass[margin=5mm, varwidth]{standalone}
\usepackage{xskak}
\usepackage{chessboard}
\setchessboard{showmover=false, margin=false}

\begin{document}
\section{Start}
\newchessgame
\chessboard[tinyboard]

\section{Spiel (erste 10 Züge, Rest auskommentiert)}
\newchessgame
\mainline{%1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Qb3 dxc4 6.Qxc4 O-O 7.e4 a6 8.e5 b5 9.Qb3 Nfd7 10.h4 c5
%11.e6 c4 12.Qd1 Nb6 13.exf7+ Rxf7 14.h5 Nc6 15.hxg6 hxg6 16.Be3 Nd5 17.Qd2 Bf5 18.Ng5 Rf6 19.Be2 Nxc3 20.bxc3 e5 21.d5 Ne7 22.O-O-O Rd6 23.Bf3 e4 24.Nxe4 Rxd5 25.Nf6+ Bxf6 26.Bxd5+ Nxd5 2
19:31
@JosephWright ouch. Well, I had a fun work day full of reviews (the team has built up quite a stack of review tasks, if I wanted to I could spend the whole week reviewing...)
 
1 hour later…
20:53
@Skillmon @UlrikeFischer typical: you have a proper sport that is clearly supposed to be English and then "Tom from Germany won the first men's race" bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cd11qvz436yo
21:09
@DavidCarlisle maybe it's coming home next year.
@Skillmon If you have some time and desire to have fun...you can take a look at (tex.stackexchange.com/q/719051/7832)
@PabloGonzálezL thanks, was just starting to read it :)
@Skillmon jejje :D
@DavidCarlisle Query...in list environment context (from a very old package) I find ` \@rightskip\@flushglue \rightskip\@rightskip` ...you need to define that in a custom list environment (not using enumitem)
@DavidCarlisle When I read the lists chapter in source2e I don't see that they define that...so I assume it's not necessary
@PabloGonzálezL don't you just want a simple * key that if used changes a tl with the internal module name from myenv to myenv* ?
@PabloGonzálezL ?
@PabloGonzálezL the core list setup in source2e does set both \@rightskip and \rightskip
21:25
@DavidCarlisle It's a bit complicated and long to explain, but basically I have a list environment called myenv and a horizontal list environment called myenv*..the query regarding \@rightskip\@flushglue \rightskip\@rightskip is because the shorlts package (from which I adapted a lot of code) has it defined... I know I should NOT mess with \rightskip (I've read it before)
@PabloGonzálezL not sure I understand but the list code uses both eg \raggedright is
@DavidCarlisle Basically they are two different environment names, * has no special meaning here (it does in the context of the command, but you would have to read the imaginary documentation I have for that package :)
\DeclareRobustCommand\raggedright{%
  \let\\\@centercr\@rightskip\@flushglue \rightskip\@rightskip
  \finalhyphendemerits=\z@
  \leftskip\z@skip
  \parindent\z@}
@PabloGonzálezL yes but as far as I can tell from your question (which has far too much code and not enough actual question) you just want a * key that switches between the two environment names?
@DavidCarlisle Thanks, I understand, for what I have then it is not necessary to modify \@rightskip and \rightskip :D
@PabloGonzálezL \list (via \@trivlist) executes
  \leftskip \z@skip
  \rightskip \@rightskip
@PabloGonzálezL so in general you shouldn't set \rightskip and only need to set \@rightskip if you are changing the right margin.
21:52
@DavidCarlisle Thanks, that's what I wanted to know...
@DavidCarlisle The context is a bit strange, what happens is that in actual file, the \printhis command calls a stream (which I can't modify) that contains the myenv and myenv* environments, but never contains the first level, with \print* it starts with myenv, with \print it starts with myenv and can have nested myenv* ...hence I need a way to be able to set the key for * and differentiate them from the start values off \print*
@DavidCarlisle A few years ago I asked a question here in the chat about the topic of list environments... and they told me that it was not the best way... but I already had a lot written so I had no choice but to continue with it. ..it has only given me headaches :D
22:07
@PabloGonzálezL I have to admit that I find your setup rather convoluted and hard to fully grasp. I'd implement a syntax similar to enumitems in the following way:
\documentclass{article}

\ExplSyntaxOn
\tl_new:N \l__mymodule_level_tl
\int_new:N \l__mymodule_level_int
\int_new:N \l__mymodule_level_s_int

% functions to access a specific variable-name-pattern with priority list
% expandable function used as
%   #1: pre variable name part
%   #2: clist of variables to try
%   #3: post variable name part
\cs_new:Npn \__mymodule_value:nnn #1#2#3
  {
    \clist_map_tokens:nn {#2} { \__mymodule_value_aux:nnn {#1} {#3} }
    \c_novalue_tl
  }
\cs_new:Npn \__mymodule_value_aux:nnn #1#2#3
22:24
If it's a bit complicated...mmm...I'll try to explain myself (and why
\setmymodule[print,*])...the issue goes through the following: In the
real implementation, when you execute "myenv" it stores in a "\seq_var"
the entire structure except the first level, including "myenv*" which
can be nested in it, when you execute "myenv*" it also saves the entire
structure which can contain "myenv" in a "\seq_var" " (without *)
nested...When running \printhis (without *) it opens with \begin{myenv}
\seq_map_inline:cn ... \end{myenv} so if there is "myenv*" in "\seq_var" and I
@Skillmon Hence the reason for differentiating \setmymodule[print,] from \setmymodule[print] (which only sets the startup level for \print*)
@Skillmon And now I remembered why the command syntax was the default \setmymodule[level,1|2|3|4] style and not the direct "enumitem" style...I've been trying to finish the code for about 5 years :(
22:43
@PabloGonzálezL the setup above allows for orthogonal axis in the mymodule/sets key-set, you could provide two variable name parts and extend the getter function to allow two comma separated lists of variable parts (or still stick with a single one and change the patterns). Maybe I'm too unconcentrated to grasp what you're after here...
@Skillmon I think that the code you show me above would bring me more complications to adapt to what I already have (github.com/pablgonz/enumext-tmp/tree/main) ...mmm...there is no way to modify what I already have so that it accepts \setmymodule[print,*]{keys} (it already works as \setmymodule[level,1]{keys} ... so I just leave it like that)
@Skillmon Unfortunately my attempts to adapt what I have have failed... I think my future enumext package will spend another time in the shadows :D
@DavidCarlisle you still got cricket

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