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1:21 AM
@cfr It is indeed both amazing and insane.
1:33 AM
@barbarabeeton I'm sure it took a few.
cfr
cfr
1:43 AM
@AlanMunn thank you.
@UlrikeFischer Never mind my last comment. \IfInstanceExistsT{blockenv}{list} is what I was looking for. :-)
2:28 AM
@AlanMunn -- Have you tried this? Do you play the recorder (a wooden one)?
@barbarabeeton I do play the recorder, but I have never attempted the carrot version.
@AlanMunn -- So, a challenge!
@barbarabeeton :) I quit after the "blade of grass between the thumbs" reed instrument. Did you do that when you were a child?
 
1 hour later…
4:01 AM
@AlanMunn -- i was taking flute lessons in junior high school, but I got stuck at the end of a crack-the-whip chain, and smacked into a pole. I ended up with what my mother called a "railroad tunnel" in my front teeth, still wearing (removable) braces. End of flute lessons. I later (after college) tried to master the guitar (in the heady folk days); that didn't succeed either. But I was an excellent folk dancer, even performing onstage at the New York World's Fair.
 
2 hours later…
6:26 AM
LaTeX dev updated, now I need to send Martin S. patches for collcell :)
@DavidCarlisle So we finally have everything pinned down :)
@DavidCarlisle How was MathML Zoom?
Hmm, first time here. What kind of questions are allowed in these rooms?
@Atcold Welcome! You could ask what you like, but if the answer is complex, it's better to ask on the main site.
I may need to put together a magazine that uses some maths and I was wondering if LaTeX would be a viable tool for it.
I have in mind magazines like the one for Raspberry Pie.
Very colourful, for kids, with captivating layout.
@Atcold For kids, LaTeX would do, indeed.
I had in mind something like this.
Do I have to reverse engineer it or is there something viable already?
6:42 AM
@Atcold tex.stackexchange.com/a/60259/52406 comes to my mind...
But you show only a cover, so difficult to know if TeX is the right tool, if we do not know how the inside would look.
Oh, wow! I totally missed that Q&A. I’ll read it entirely when I wake up!
@Atcold Honestly, that is probably easier to do with a desktop publish application.
That’s what I thought. I think one issue is that InDesign doesn’t support maths.
Do you have specific software in mind?
@Atcold I do not use that kind of software, sorry.
Me neither 😅 That’s why I’m here, asking y’all 😅
6:56 AM
If you can live with slightly simpler layouts, like nieuwarchief.nl/serie5/… then TeX could be the tool.
(They switched to indesign some time ago, but the issue linked is done with TeX)
Where’s the source code?
Thanks for the pointers, though! 😀
7:29 AM
@gusbrs be aware that the block code has a number of open points. The newest latex-dev contains various corrections and extends the options for items. Also we are just discussing and cleaning up the key names. If you think something is missing, open a feature request.
7:52 AM
@JosephWright people who know stuff explaining how the web broswer platform test harness works, so we can try to get more mathml tests submitted
Mar 6, 2012 at 14:09, by David Carlisle
@PauloCereda, @RoelofSpijker, @egreg, new house rules: for every line discussing football, needs to be one discussing cricket
@Atcold I suspect the first sentence of this answer applies, but basically you would need something like the code shown
14
A: Christmas List / Catalog

David CarlisleLaTeX is so not designed for this kind of document. But if you must, must. \documentclass{article} \usepackage{graphicx} \begin{document} \setlength\unitlength{1cm} \vspace*{\fill} \noindent \begin{picture}(0,0)\bfseries\large \put(4,3){\includegraphics{house}} \put(0.5,5){\parbox{5cm}{\ragge...

 
3 hours later…
10:33 AM
@UlrikeFischer Ok, understood, I'll take a look. And hopefully I don't need any key which is being cleaned. ;-)
@UlrikeFischer Besides the two I opened, I can think of a couple of other things. Some means to set attribute-class of a custom list environment (or, rather, an easier one than redefining everything with xtemplate). And some public function which translates to \property_ref:nn { tagpdfstruct-<label> } { <property> }.
11:04 AM
@UlrikeFischer Another idea, for l3build actually, but related. The first thing I thought when you suggested above was: I'll run regression tests for the dev formats manually (I stopped doing that wholesale some time ago, because it was taking too long). But I can't do it like that because l3build always compares everything with the default engine. If I could just tell: "compare pdftex-dev with pdftex results, luatex-dev with luatex results, and xetex-dev with xetex results", I could test this now.
11:19 AM
@gusbrs you can have a config that sets the engines to -dev and runs the tests in the same directory then you just need l3build -cdevconfig check don't you?
@DavidCarlisle I used to, not anymore. (In these lines tex.stackexchange.com/q/611424)
@DavidCarlisle Or maybe I missed your point? Can it be done like that?
@gusbrs but that is defining specialformats.latex = what I mean is just tell l3build that the pdflatex binary is pdflatex-dev and same for others so it will still compare against say test001.luatex.tlg if needed
@DavidCarlisle Let me play with that idea. :-) Thanks!
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I initially missed your point. I'm still not sure how to do it, but I think I get the idea, and have to try.
@gusbrs not that I have tried this, but that's what i'd try:-)
@DavidCarlisle :-)
11:25 AM
@gusbrs our main testing for latex-dev is actually while it is still called latex but built on a branch, the -dev name is more or less final step packaging for releases built from the branch but during the test phase, it's just latex. But that's not so convenient if you are not testing/building base, I can see.
@DavidCarlisle Yeah, I'm downstream from that step. ;-)
@JosephWright could add a --dev flag to l3build to make that easier so you didn't need a specific config file (in his copious spare time)
@DavidCarlisle +1
11:44 AM
@DavidCarlisle Uhm, tried the following:
checkconfigs = {"build","build-3runs","build-4runs"}

checkengines = {"pdftex","luatex","xetex"}
specialformats = specialformats or {}
specialformats.latex = specialformats.latex or { }
specialformats.latex.pdftex = { binary = "pdflatex-dev" , format = "" }
specialformats.latex.luatex = { binary = "lualatex-dev" , format = "" }
specialformats.latex.xetex  = { binary = "xelatex-dev"  , format = "" }
But it seems to just run the set under "build"... (whatever I set in checkconfigs). I'll have to dig the source later.
(Though, I'd suppose it is ignoring checkconfig precisely because I called l3build check -c build-dev).
12:03 PM
@DavidCarlisle Is this what you actually meant github.com/gusbrs/postnotes/commit/…. (If so, it works. Thanks!)
@gusbrs if that's what works then naturally that is what I meant
@UlrikeFischer Good news in that is that the tagging tests pass with the dev formats. So it seems the changes in the block code does not catch what I'm using. :-)
@gusbrs it was just a vague plan I hadn't actually considered which l3build settings you'd need to change in detail
@DavidCarlisle If it didn't, than it must have been @UlrikeFischer, I presume. :-)
@gusbrs You could just do checkformat = "latex-dev", which I've done for siunitx (as we have a tabular change) - all passes bar the pre-loading font business :)
12:08 PM
@JosephWright ah yes then it'll still use the .luatex.tlg names for luatex specific results... hmm that's better I agree.
@DavidCarlisle I guess we could add some override switch - it's not too hard to imagine how that would work
@JosephWright Oh, that's good! It works. Thank you! And do you enable it by default in siunitx? If so, do you test both formats or just -dev?
@gusbrs No, most of the time I just test against release LaTeX - I was doing some specific dev testing as I know there is a change that could have impacted (we've been working on some \halign issues at a low level)
@JosephWright I see, I'll take a look at the code to see what you are doing there. And is there any command line incantation for the option?
@gusbrs No, and there's nothing to see checked in - I just edit build.lua locally :)
12:14 PM
@DavidCarlisle Btw, I did eventually drop those PDF based tests.
@JosephWright Mhm. I can wait I guess. But if you can tell me how and where you are setting it, I'd appreciate that. I suppose you are using for a specific set of tests, for which you have some "build-dev.lua" and set checkformat there. Is that it?
@gusbrs Nope, I just edit the line into build.lua at the start, then run the tests as normal - I'm only looking occasionally and for major issues, so this is workable
@gusbrs I will look at adding a dev option - it's pretty easy and would help various people
@JosephWright Then I think I'm up to par as of now github.com/gusbrs/postnotes/blob/… :-)
@JosephWright That would be neat!
@gusbrs Yup
@gusbrs Probably later today - this is a simple change I can get straight out to CTAN
@JosephWright No rush at all. I'll be happy when it comes. :-)
12:32 PM
@gusbrs a bit surprising. Didn't you get a change from OT1 to T1 encoding? Or do all your tests already use T1?
@UlrikeFischer May this be the reason? github.com/gusbrs/postnotes/blob/…
@UlrikeFischer If so, should I change that?
@UlrikeFischer I added this to most(?) of my test files to have to save (and verify) less engine-specific test results. I'm not particularly interested in the fonts for the purposes of the package, just on the "text".
@gusbrs yes. If you force the encoding you are naturally not affected.
@UlrikeFischer I see. Do you see any reason to change my tests to T1?
12:59 PM
@gusbrs no, if fonts do not matter OT1 is fine.
@UlrikeFischer Great, thanks!
1:21 PM
@samcarter makes one wonder why the counter library needs to be loaded and isn't loaded by default...
@Skillmon the doc says for libraries in general: "To avoid potential conflict". No idea what potential conflict the counter library might have...
@samcarter it probably means "I don't trust code copied from david's tabularx"
@DavidCarlisle LOL 🤣 Thanks! 😄
Oh, don’t know how to actually reply. 🤔
@Atcold choose reply from the dropdown at the left or use the arrow button at the far right
@DavidCarlisle Strange, I heard his code is very trustworthy :D
1:34 PM
@samcarter it probably eats braces.
@Skillmon ... better than eating ducks
@samcarter it's from a very reliable author
@DavidCarlisle oh! Tapping the message first. I see. Thanks!
@Atcold hover not tap (depending on the platform) but yes
@Skillmon Good idea
@JosephWright Hopefully I'll manage this evening... :P
@DavidCarlisle Skype
2:38 PM
@DavidCarlisle On a phone I think one taps.
@JosephWright I just came in the german group across this example (shortened by me):
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{collcell}     %% Inhalt von Tabellenzellen ermitteln
\begin{document}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\newcommand{\tU}[1]{\tl_show:n{#1}}
\ExplSyntaxOff
\newcolumntype{U}{>{\collectcell\tU}c<{\endcollectcell}}

\begin{tabular}{U}
0 & 0 \\
\end{tabular}

\end{document}
it outputs > 0 \textonly@unskip also with your new version. This doesn't look right?
3:04 PM
@UlrikeFischer Ah, I see - wrong attachment!
@UlrikeFischer Tye the one from the mail I've just sent
@DavidCarlisle ... can we add conkers to list of acceptable topics? It seems to be a very important sport if it manages to have its very own scandal bbc.com/news/articles/c3e9k72qz7xo
@JosephWright better. The example from the group works with it.
@UlrikeFischer :)
4:04 PM
@UlrikeFischer Cool
4:36 PM
@JosephWright Sweet. :-) Thank you!
4:48 PM
@gusbrs The sort of thing you are after?
@samcarter yes it's serious business
5:14 PM
@JosephWright Just what is needed for this purpose. Very useful.
@gusbrs Cool - just waiting to see what other team members think before merging and releasing
5:56 PM
For some AI fun: roastmygithub.com
5
6:16 PM
@AlanMunn "Who needs a social life when you can spend your days writing mathematical HTML"
@DavidCarlisle "A GitHub user with a whopping 35 public repos, but only 13 followers. Guess you haven't quite mastered the art of self-promotion yet, huh?"
@DavidCarlisle It's interesting to see that it always picks on the same repos to comment on, at least in my limited tests.
6:32 PM
"But beware, their XKCD color palette for LaTeX might make your documents look a little too colorful. ". Not so scorching ..."Keep on "TeXing" away, my friend. :-P
@AlanMunn But I have to admit, their "xskak" repository has me stumped...I'm not sure if that's a play on words or just a typo ;-)
6:51 PM
Hello. Is there a way to darken all the text in a compiled pdf, whose source code is not available? I find CM very thin. I did not ask this in the main site as I am not sure if latex can deal with a compiled pdf.
@ApoorvPotnis not really, certainly latex wouldn't be the tool, you'd want a pdf editor to try to change the fonts.
@DavidCarlisle Hmm thought so. I have just asked a question on superuser. Let's hope there is an answer. I am sure many people find CM spindly. Do you know any pdf editor which can do the job? Paid pdf editors like acrobat pro are okay as well
7:24 PM
@ApoorvPotnis no the system I use is spend 40 years looking at cm then you decide you have got used to it. The system I used originally was to print it using a dot matrix printer which smudged out all the ink anyway so it didn't look anything like so thin,
@DavidCarlisle Four Yorkshiremen, tech edition. :)
7:45 PM
@DavidCarlisle Hmm. Got it. Will spend the next 40 years and get used to it :-)
perhaps for the same reason, old latex people like the non-matching amsbb design with CM
8:12 PM
@AlanMunn we 'ad it tough
8:28 PM
@DavidCarlisle not fair, and I really think the \nonum prefix is a smart idea.
@DavidCarlisle but I only want the tick after getting 20 points, otherwise I'll miss 64646.
@ApoorvPotnis vvv
@ApoorvPotnis that is taking the output from pdflatex small2e standard example file and changing all occurrences of cmr10 by Arial Black (which is a bit excessive and leads to overprinting) I used the free pdf-xchange editor where that's actually an "evaluation feature" so it watermarks the result as demo but anyway...
@ApoorvPotnis you could possibly more usefully replace with cmb10 which is the same width as cmr10 but bolder
@Skillmon there's 10
@DavidCarlisle Haha, nice choice of font to replace with :)
8:45 PM
@DavidCarlisle Thanks. I had tried replacing the font, especially with NewCM Book as it is thicker, and more importantly, supposed to be metrically equivalent. So, it should not break any document layout. But this works only for text fonts. I tried replacing the math fonts with newcm book math, but it did not work properly at all. Missing symbols, haphazard spacing, and all upright symbols.
@ApoorvPotnis yes the tex legacy font encodings are "interesting" so practically speaking you would need to replace by a legacy font in the same encoding so probably the classic bold cm fonts
@mickep I like to go for the subtle changes that the average reader may not even notice, but I know I made.
@DavidCarlisle hmm, looks like complicated stuff
@ApoorvPotnis for example in the classic tex encoding capital Gamma is character 0 you will not find many non TeX fonts that have a Gamma in that position
i just found that changing the fill and stroke parameter using master pdf editor makes everything bold. but unfortunately, it does not accept any value below 1. the result is very thick
@DavidCarlisle
@ApoorvPotnis you see: after a while you convince yourself cm isn't so bad:-)
8:59 PM
@DavidCarlisle 🙂
perhaps I should buy a mac. the font looks quite thick and acceptable on macs. only if apple products weren't so expensive.....
9:28 PM
@UlrikeFischer Any reason why your code (taken from Github)
\DocumentMetadata{uncompress,testphase=phase-III,pdfversion=2.0}
\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}

\tagstructbegin{tag=Div,stash,label=first}
First child: This is the first paragraph in the document.
\tagstructend

Second child: This is the second paragraph in the document.

\tagstructbegin{tag=Title,firstkid}
Title
\tagstructend

Third child: This is the third paragraph in the document.

\tagstructuse{first}
\end{document}
does not pass the test in (dev.verapdf-rest.duallab.com)?
@UlrikeFischer I was planning to use it for (manually) a list environment with the label below the figures...but now I don't know if what I'm doing is correct...I thought veraPDF was fail-safe :(
9:43 PM
@DavidCarlisle aww, here have a carrot from my treasury: <3
@Skillmon best to have veg to go with the rabbit pie
@DavidCarlisle exactly, though I don't prefer rabbit pie. Better some roasted rabbit in pepper cream sauce.
10:04 PM
@PabloGonzálezL the example doesn't set a standard, so what do you expect verapdf to validate?
@UlrikeFischer The truth is I tried with the line
\DocumentMetadata
  {
    lang=en-US,
    pdfversion=2.0,
    pdfstandard=ua-2,
    testphase={phase-III,math,table,title,firstaid}
  }
with lualatex-dev
@UlrikeFischer I intended that I could label a list where the image is shown above label, but that when accessing it from the keyboard, the first element chosen would be label and then the image (like the usual label+content lists from left to right when being read)
@UlrikeFischer I can make this happen from Acrobat, but the ideal would be to leave it predefined (my idea is to do as little work as possible post creation and not depend on Acrobat DC Pro)
@PabloGonzálezL well you still miss a title, so add \title{something}.
10:20 PM
@UlrikeFischer Ohhh..I didn't see that coming :D ...I think a mini tutorial is missing for LaTeX tagged PDF newbies
@UlrikeFischer By the way...any address or place where I can see how to install veraPDF using gitactions?
@UlrikeFischer By the way, it's not my fault for not using \title I just followed the instructions at (latex3.github.io/tagging-project/documentation/…)
cfr
cfr
@DavidCarlisle 'interesting'.
is it possible to combine documentation from a .tex with source code from a .dtx into one manual? where the relevant standard of possibility is something like 'reasonably practicable' and not, say, 'theoretically achievable given Turing completeness'?
10:37 PM
@PabloGonzálezL sorry but you get a two line validation error saying something about dc:title. It is not so difficult to make an educated guess that a title is missing. And the instructions actually say that \title is added to the metadata.
I fear I have to go to bed, and will miss my next palindrome :(
@UlrikeFischer I always trust your code (much more than @DavidCarlisle) ...you can add \title for future curious users :D
@UlrikeFischer A more serious question
@UlrikeFischer Using the idea you have in the code above, how can I modify this pseudop-code and force Lbl to always be checked first?
\tag_struct_begin:n {tag=LI}
  \tag_struct_begin:n {tag=Lbl}
    \tag_mc_begin:n {tag=Lbl}
    \tag_mc_end:
  \tag_struct_end:n {tag=Lbl}
  \tag_struct_begin:n {tag=LBody}
    \tag_struct_begin:n {tag=text-unit}
      \tag_struct_begin:n {tag=text}
         \tag_mc_begin:n {tag=text}
         \tag_mc_end:
      \tag_struct_end:n {tag=text}
    \tag_struct_end:n {tag=text-unit}
  \tag_struct_end:n {tag=LBody}
\tag_struct_end:n {tag=LI}
11:00 PM
user image
5
@Skillmon ^^^ a screenshot in case you are already dreaming of <3's
11:30 PM
@cfr just Input it you might need to locally set percent back but that's all
cfr
cfr
11:51 PM
@DavidCarlisle sorry. I did not mean to ping the question at you.

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