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5:51 AM
An IBMPlex Math Alpha was posted (but the font is far from being ready).
 
 
2 hours later…
7:21 AM
@DavidCarlisle Wondering who is around for today's meeting ...
 
@JosephWright me me me me me me
 
@PauloCereda I think you're not on the list of invited guests...
 
@Skillmon oh no
 
7:42 AM
@PauloCereda ooh no, neither am I!
@PauloCereda we should hold a secret meeting in which the others aren't invited as retribution.
 
@Skillmon ooh this a great plan
@Skillmon and it should be super secret
 
@PauloCereda yes, as long as we don't tell them, they'll never find out!
 
@Skillmon yes! They will never find out our SUPER SECRET RABBIT DUCK AWESOME MEETING, specially @DavidCarlisle and @JosephWright :)
 
@PauloCereda exactly! Ducks and rabbits are super good at keeping secrets!
4
 
@Skillmon ooh
 
7:55 AM
Unrelated news: I'm currently drinking a coffee from a Fibonacci inventory numbered coffee machine. Unfortunately, the Fibonacci number doesn't positively affect the taste (though it also doesn't negatively affect it, the coffee just isn't good :()
 
@Skillmon oh my
@Skillmon rabbits are good at Fibonacci sequences
 
8:12 AM
@JosephWright I should be, I think. 5?
@PauloCereda sounds like a good banquet
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@DavidCarlisle ooh tea
 
8:30 AM
@DavidCarlisle Are you sure? The not very good coffee might negatively influence the taste of the rabbit...
 
@PauloCereda Outch! I get dizzy from looking at this font :)
 
@samcarter maybe it's good for drunken people :)
 
@PauloCereda maybe :) Any volunteers to test this theory?
 
@samcarter nope :)
 
8:46 AM
@PauloCereda me neither :)
 
@samcarter also, see matrix :)
 
@PauloCereda oh, secret duck messages :)
 
@samcarter ooh
user image
3
 
9:40 AM
@PauloCereda useful editor advice for you on site
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@DavidCarlisle The UI is suspiciously non-Windows-y. Are you using Linux? :)
 
@PauloCereda isn't windows just an X server?
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh xwindows
 
10:01 AM
how would you typeset a long equation on multiple lines?
$$\begin{align}
(f_1,f_2) & =4\pi \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} d r^*|A|^2(\omega_1+\omega_2)\exp\Bigl\{-i (\omega_1-\omega_2)t\Bigr\}\exp\Bigl\{i (\omega_1-\omega_2)r^*\Bigr\}\\
& =4\pi |A|^2 (\omega_1+\omega_2)\exp\Bigl\{-i (\omega_1-\omega_2)t\Bigr\}\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty}d r^*\exp\Bigl\{i (\omega_1-\omega_2)r^*\Bigr\}.
\end{align}$$
 
@john why are you mixing $$...$$ and align? That will not compile. Please post it as a quesiton on the site.
 
@john ``` doesn't work here (one reason it's better to ask questions on the question site:-) but answer to your original question is use align or multline (do not use $$ of course, align starts math mode
 
technically the page have enough space to display it without any warnings, but I'm not sure on how it looks
@daleif @DavidCarlisle yeah i know $$ and \align don't work together
 
@john so why add them above so no one can use your fragment??? $$ shouldn't be used in latex at all
 
yes my bad
 
10:08 AM
from
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{amsmath}

\begin{document}
\begin{align}
(f_1,f_2) & =4\pi \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} d r^*|A|^2(\omega_1+\omega_2)\exp
\Bigl\{-i (\omega_1-\omega_2)t\Bigr\}\exp\Bigl\{i (\omega_1-\omega_2)r^*\Bigr\}\\
& =4\pi |A|^2 (\omega_1+\omega_2)\exp\Bigl\{-i (\omega_1-\omega_2)t\Bigr\}
\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty}d r^*\exp\Bigl\{i (\omega_1-\omega_2)r^*\Bigr\}.
\end{align}
\end{document}
what is your actual question? (I would use align* and lose the numbers, or at least just have one number)
You could use a bit of negative space after the integrals to give yourself space for an equation number @john
 
@DavidCarlisle actually I need numbers in any equation
 
@john but do you need to number every line of a multi-line equation?
 
the question was "what do you think is better for readability?"
@DavidCarlisle yes
 
@john shrug, OK, of course whether they fit or not is a function of your fonts and text width, about which you have given no information. As I say I'd use some negative space between the integrals and the dr^* and I'd use at most \big as \Big is too big here.
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{amsmath}

\begin{document}
\begin{align}
(f_1,f_2) & =4\pi \!\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty}\!\!\! d r^*|A|^2(\omega_1+\omega_2)\exp
\bigl\{-i (\omega_1-\omega_2)t\bigr\}\exp\bigl\{i (\omega_1-\omega_2)r^*\bigr\}\\
& =4\pi |A|^2 (\omega_1+\omega_2)\exp\bigl\{-i (\omega_1-\omega_2)t\bigr\}
\!\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty}\!\!\!d r^*\exp\bigl\{i (\omega_1-\omega_2)r^*\bigr\}.
\end{align}
\end{document}
@john ^
 
@DavidCarlisle yeah i know, it is not my idea to number every equations. I'm using 12pt and regular serif font. i prefer to use \Big since to me looks more evident the argument of the exponential function
 
10:20 AM
@john the above is 10pt on default usletter article, you have no chance to make 12pt fit without increasing the text width or splitting over more lines. I already squeezed it more than ideal to make 10pt fit. (and Big really is too big, since you asked what looks better:-)
@john 12pt
using \!\int\limits_{-\infty}^{+\infty}\! d twice
 
I'm writing a thesis in 12pt with the class scrbook. I picked 12pt since most of the other thesis are in 12pt
in my thesis is already spitted in multiple lines, i find it easier to read it like that. i was wondering what other people think about that
 
@john sure but (a) you should have said that at the start, and (b) you should have made an example and posted to the question site (you still haven't given any indication of page width) you might just be able to make this fit but probably you should split it over 4 lines not 2
 
@DavidCarlisle yes i split it into 4 lines. i didn't asked on the main site because i didn't knew if it was on-topic (since the question is about a preference rather than on how to do it)
 
@john but you are asking how to fit an elephant into a suitcase, without mentioning that it's a pygmy elephant and you have a custom suitcase the size of a house. It is those details that matter more than the specifics of the animal.
3
@john you could break each of the current lines so ending with 4, or you could break with just the left hand sise on the first line with the two large lines shifted slightly left, it is all highly dependent on the specific size available
 
10:54 AM
@JosephWright don't know yet, but could you send me the zoom link? I'm not sure if I have it on my laptop.
 
11:05 AM
@UlrikeFischer you have mail:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle ... now I want a pygmy elephant as a pet :)
 
@samcarter have a furless rabbit, almost same thing, and even more tasty.
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no :)
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@DavidCarlisle my fianceé could make use of such suitcase, but I am afraid she will say it's not big enough to accommodate her clothes and shoes. :)
 
@PauloCereda but she has a simple solution, leave you behind. That will make more space for her stuff.
 
11:25 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh no
although that would work... hmmmm
oh no
 
@DavidCarlisle thanks
 
 
2 hours later…
1:07 PM
@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer (@Skillmon) e-type PR coming up as soon as I confirm it all passes tests locally
 
@JosephWright noice!
@JosephWright not sure when I can sneak a peek, busy schedule this week.
(uhh, that rhymes)
 
1:50 PM
@Skillmon Cool
 
 
2 hours later…
4:00 PM
@JosephWright I don't quite get the \cs_set:Npe vs \cs_set:Npx, but I guess it is debatable whether that's e or x type expansion...
 
@Skillmon Look at what happens if you do \cs_generate_variant:Nn \cs_set:Npn { e } and then feed some # tokens, and compare with \cs_set:Npx ...
@Skillmon For a non-expandable case, only # treatment can vary
 
@JosephWright yes, that's what I meant with the "debatable". Historically this was called x type expansion, but it really is e.
 
@Skillmon Indeed - my plan is to try to deprecate x, basically - team meeting right now to raise that ;)
 
@JosephWright also, I doubt that you do \cs_generate_variant:Nn \cs_set:Npn { e } (that's an error, e is no valid variant of N)
 
@Skillmon Yes, I mean Npe
 
4:04 PM
@JosephWright but you don't generate a variant, the \meaning of \cs_set:Npe should be the same as that of the previous \cs_set:Npx, shouldn't it?
 
@Skillmon Yes, I know :)
 
:( time's up for now. Maybe I can continue to look in a while...
 
4:35 PM
@samcarter -- only after drinking too much sake.
 
@barbarabeeton :) sake fits the theme of the font!
 
4:48 PM
@samcarter -- It also tastes good, especially some of the unfiltered varieties. (There are several good pub-style ramen joints in our area. In fact, we're going to dinner at one of them this evening. But if the weather is decent, I may choose sushi instead.)
 
@barbarabeeton Sounds lovely! Enjoy your meal! (I hope the menu won't be printed in this font)
 
@samcarter -- No, the menu is in a quite legible sans serif, although the spelling is sometimes a bit "nonstandard". And on one wall, there's a "traditional" menu, with the names of the dishes on hanging wooden slats in kanji. From time to time I bring in a Japanese dictionary and try to figure them out.
 
@samcarter Today I got the devices:
 
5:09 PM
@barbarabeeton 鴨 ?
 
@DavidCarlisle -- Quack! (Not on the menu. But you can have 蛸 or at least ゲソ
 
 
1 hour later…
6:37 PM
@mickep Oh, this looks fun!
 
@samcarter Oh, indeed!
 
@mickep Is context using an existing potrace implementation or something new?
 
@samcarter Hans used potrace (but with some small changes as far as I remember).
 
@mickep ah, nice thing to play with :)
 
6:54 PM
@samcarter Indeed. And it does in fact also give rather nice contour plots.
 
7:44 PM
user image
4
 
@UlrikeFischer Where's that?
 
What does it mean the error "Package tikz: Sorry, the system call 'pdflatex -shell-escape -halt-on-error -interaction=batchmode -jobname \"tikz/penrose/conformalFactRN\" \"\\def\\tikzexternalrealjob{main}\\input{main}\"' did NOT result in a usable output file 'tikz/penrose/conformalFactRN' (expected one of .pdf:.jpg:.jpeg:.png:). ...
 
@JosephWright Castel del Monte
 
@john ... Please verify that you have enabled system calls. For pdflatex, this is 'pdflatex -shell-escape'. Sometimes it is also named 'write 18' or something like that. Or maybe the command simply failed?" I compile using the -shell-escape option, but still get this error. And still generates correctly the pdf
 
@UlrikeFischer Lovely
 
7:47 PM
@JosephWright rather curious building. Very geometric but clearly design goes over function, as it couldn't work as a castel.
 
@UlrikeFischer I looked it up, and immediately could see what it inspired :)
 
inspired?
 
@UlrikeFischer The Name of The Rose
 
@JosephWright ah yes.
 
8:08 PM
@john You've not enabled shell escape ('write18') in your pdfLaTeX run
 
@JosephWright isn't compiling with pdflatex -shell-escape main.tex enough?
 
@john It should be, but withoput seeing the full log I can't be sure if there was an issue with that call
 
@JosephWright how can i share it?
 
8:31 PM
@john the tikz externalize failed, but it is impossible to say why it failed
 
@UlrikeFischer i was thinking about that since the output of externalization (.md5, .dpth, .pdf) are missing or empty
the odd thing is that it stopped working out of nowhere. everything worked for months and then today suddenly i'm getting this error
 
@JosephWright in expl3.dtx line 799 of your current e-type branch: c is no valid variant of n (was wrong before your changes). Also the code example in line 805 doesn't reflect the changes in the text.
@JosephWright also what is the policy on documentation of deprecated functions? In l3basics.dtx you still document \cs_new:Npx and friends.
@JosephWright also, I didn't check, but I think your dropping \msg_error:nnxx and friends and are missing a \tex_let:D for those (but I might be missing something in the deprecation code at this point).
@JosephWright l3basics.dtx lines 2678 and following: you added a second entry of the x-variants, but didn't rename the old x-variants to e.
@JosephWright l3candidates.dtx line 288: You added an x-variant in addition to the e type variant for the set-function, but not for the gset-function.
 
8:53 PM
@john well it can happen. But as I wrote: there are lots of reason why it can fail, and missing shell-escape is only the most frequent one. So try to make a comple minimal example that one can really debug. Or check the log-files of the images.
 
@Skillmon Well variants are a bit complex, but we are not at this stage deprecating anything, just moving our own practice
@Skillmon I've switched that to just use \cs_generate_variant:Nn: I hope I've got that right
 
@JosephWright l3clist.dtx line 126: you're not documenting \clist_const:cx but \clist_const:Nx
@JosephWright maybe I've missed that...
 
  \cs_generate_variant:cn { msg_ #1 :nnnn }
    { nnVV , nnVn , nnnV , nnne , nnnx , nnee , nnxx }
  \cs_generate_variant:cn { msg_ #1 :nnnnn }
    { nnnee , nnnxx , nneee , nnxxx }
   \cs_generate_variant:cn { msg_ #1 :nnnnnn } { nneeee , nnxxxx }
@Skillmon ^^^
@Skillmon By-design: it's the only one in use in TL that I could find
 
@JosephWright oh... But wouldn't just not \exp_not:n-ing the contents be more efficient if your code already uses \message internally?
 
@Skillmon Yes, but this is for messages, which are not exactly fast: I'm more worried here about being easy-to-maintain than fast
 
8:58 PM
(though I guess the msg-stuff is not performance critical)
@JosephWright I figured as much^^^ :)
 
@Skillmon Again, I think by-design: I'd have to check, but I assume I didn't find \clist_const:cx in use
@Skillmon BTW, thanks for the answer on the not-CTAN Q
 
'"enene" better than "ecece"' sounds like as if from a Absurdist play.
 
@JosephWright yes, I thought for symmetry I'd document them in the same sense (so either drop both and live with the fact that a package in the wild uses an undocumented but still working deprecated function, or document both and live with the fact that some future package might pick up the "wrong" name)
@JosephWright no problem, thanks for reminding me that there is more than just comment :) For "answers" not involving real code I fall back to just commenting all too often.
@JosephWright also: just realised that you also opened a PR by now... Should I continue spamming the chat, or start a review on GH?
 
@Skillmon The longer-term plan is to try to improve predictability of variants, so for most n-type args we'd expect an e-type variant to be available 'out of the box'
@Skillmon Probably best to do in the PR
@Skillmon Frank will tell me off if I try that ;))
 
@JosephWright I'd personally favour the "don't document" route, but Frank and the team has the last word, and that's the way it should be -- not some stray rabbit telling the big people how to do their stuff :P
 
9:08 PM
@Skillmon Note in the PR and see what FMi says?
 
(but honestly, see how other SW projects handle their deprecation list: there is some list burried somewhere, but the big front-end documentation doesn't list those, or just lists them with "Function bla: Deprecated"
@JosephWright good plan :P
 
@Skillmon Yeah, but that's for stuff that's deprecated: at this stage, that's not the case here, it's a change of emphasis instead
@Skillmon Variants are tricky, as provided the base function exists, \cs_generate_variant:Nn will always work
 
@JosephWright hm, political decisions are not my cup of tea :)
@JosephWright of course (the question is: which to document as available out of the box)
 
@Skillmon If we go for deprecation, it will likely be of the same form as the engine ones: [x-type variants] as a 'class'
 
@JosephWright Just so you know, I'm skipping the backend stuff, trusting you and the test suite :P
 
9:12 PM
@Skillmon :)
 
9:48 PM
@UlrikeFischer i managed to "solve" the problem. apparently there was an issue on how i imported each figure in the document (each figure was in a separate .tikz file)
 

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