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07:34
LaTeX2e <2023-06-01>
L3 programming layer <2023-06-05>
 
3 hours later…
10:21
@JosephWright pinch punch, first of the month
2
@cis yes, I got the email:-)
cis
cis
@DavidCarlisle Oha!! ^^
@cis I doubt it's a fontspec issue actually (I don't think it would be solvable in xetex for example) it may be possible to access that in luaotfload, I am not sure. See what Marcel says, unless @mickep knows...
cis
cis
@DavidCarlisle Marcel has a (external) program for that. I saw that a long time ago.

I didn't know if "accessing the different layers of a glyph" is a fontspec thing.

But it would be good to have the option
`\char[layer=2]"1F0AE`
with loading the fontspec-package.
10:36
@cis as David said: before fontspec can do anything at all there must be support in luaotfload. And fontspec should imho not redefine \char.
@cis you should add a reference to a font which has such layers.
cis
cis
I can try to add an example font with different layers.

But the thing is: I have created some glyphs myself (in a ttf-file) that have different layers (by the way: it's about Japanese characters).

I would like to have access to the contents of these layers.
@UlrikeFischer PS: If it is ok, I will add the example-glyphe that shown in the issue...
10:53
@DavidCarlisle I have not seen such an access.
@cis you may be able to do this from Lua, but it seems conceptually wrong, like accessing individual path components in the outline, you are disassembling the font source rather than using it as a font
cis
cis
@DavidCarlisle@UlrikeFischer As wished I added ExampleFontWithLayers.ttf, where \char0 contains the shown situation with layers.
cis
cis
11:27
I don't know how to solve this correctly. This you know way better.

In Ulrike's chess package, for example, one can color fill the chess characters.
To do this, she places the same chess glyph on top of each other several times.

Assuming one could have worked with different layers here, that might be an advantage.
11:40
@cis Not sure that font got generated correctly. It seems that the glyph is not assigned a unicode slot.
(According to FontForge)
@cis, @DavidCarlisle I would look at the "evenmore" document in the context distribution, on color fonts and on how to play with pieces in MetaFun.
cis
cis
11:58
@mickep Yes, it is (as written) \char0, because I did not know how to set it into U+1F0AE....
@cis I do not place the same glyph on top of each other but different glyphs. Good chessfonts like skaknew have specific glyphs that can be used to mask parts of the piece. Try e.g.
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fonttable}
\begin{document}

\fonttable{SkakNew-Diagram}

\end{document}
@DavidCarlisle :)
cis
cis
Ah yes. The way I see it, a lot differs only by various additions.

Assuming one had the things (with a suitable font) in different levels and could access them, one could work with them efficiently.
@cis conceptually what you are doing is generating a font for each layer. If you implemented it that way it would work for all engines, not relying on luatex to access font internals
12:18
@cis well I don't know if it is more efficient if you have to use an engine like lualatex and load all the luaotfload code only to be able color a glyph in two or three colors. The method used by the chess fonts is old and feels a bit handmade but it works now for over 20 years without problems.
cis
cis
So one could basically write a document in which a Lua code `\begin{luacode} .... \end{luacode}`
reads the desired layers?

Because then I could probably ask a question in the forum.
@cis no idea. I don't know if luaotfload has interfaces.
12:58
user image
2
Being someone living in Cologne, Germany, this is especially delightful for me ...
I wonder when would be the right time to delete one's own questions that are obviously considered not helpful by the community ...
@JasperHabicht why are you not coming to TUG if you are so near??
@UlrikeFischer I really considered this, I need to check my schedule ...
 
1 hour later…
cis
cis
14:22
I think this was the Script, that can read out different Layers of a font.
There is sth. with Lua as well... Mmmh....

https://github.com/zauguin/COLR
PS:
If one could have that in different layers instead of different glyph numbers, that would be very handy.
 
4 hours later…
18:32
@DavidCarlisle Ugh, looking into the font, it is really a mixed-mash of styles.
@mickep stick to comic sans
@DavidCarlisle Tss, you are just jelly because of your ugly integral sign...
@mickep would you trust a lua based typesetting system?
@DavidCarlisle Not with all the security issues...
@mickep "One can also use the upright greek sans, that is available" yes, because the range of characters available in each unicode math alphabet is so consistent and rational
18:49
@DavidCarlisle Haha, well, I consider that font not to be ready. But I think life would have been easier if they had their sans serif letters in the ordinary (serif) slots.
(Given the unicode math mess...)
@mickep traditional to blame @barbarabeeton at this point
@DavidCarlisle Well, one can also view it as she was one of the few who tried to make it as good as possible. I was not there, so...
19:15
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\cs_new_protected:Nn \l_test_myurl: {
	\href{orcid.org/0000-0003-0265-9119}{My\ Orcid}
}
\NewDocumentCommand{\myorcid}{}{\l_test_myurl:}
\ExplSyntaxOff
\begin{document}
\myorcid{}

\href{orcid.org/0000-0003-0265-9119}{My Orcid}
\end{document}
Is this a hyperref bug? Spurious .pdf added to the link inside \ExplSyntaxOn.
Actually it's unrelated to expl3: it's whenever the \href command is inside a macro. Same behaviour with \newcommand\myurl{\href{https://orcid.org/0000-0003-0265-9119}{My Orcid}}. Is there a way to avoid it?
19:34
i know this is probably off-topic, but maybe you can help me. I'm writing my thesis with LaTeX on Visual Studio Code. At the moment, after a compilation I need to have the output pdf on another screen of my laptop, so i go back and forth between vscode and pdf. Also, my laptop has very bad display, so i was wondering if it was possible to display the output pdf on my IPad
for the moment i managed to open the pdf on the ipad starting a simple http server on my laptop, but the browser do not update when the pdf changes and when i manually update it start from the first page
so not an optimal solution
anyone know how to do this? or where to properly ask for help?
@john Is your laptop a Mac?
@AlanMunn no i'm using arch linux
@john Sorry, then I have no idea. The MacOS can use an iPad as an extra or mirrored display.
@AlanMunn i will check that out
thank you
20:01
I've found the answer to my hyperref question here.
@AlanMunn I just wanted to say that ;-) If you load the pdfmanagement you could use \hrefurl, that always create an URI-link. And you naming is wrong: you are mixing variable elements (\l_) with function syntax (the colon and \cs_new).
@AlanMunn this in particular doesn't work (requires ubuntu). there is a similar solution, but is not what i was looking for
@john Oh well, sorry. It was worth a shot.
@UlrikeFischer Thanks, Ulrike. This consistent naming stuff takes some getting used to, and I think I've systematically misunderstood that \l_ prefix.
21:03
@sgmoye @barbarabeeton is trying to get hold of you: could you pop into the chat so we can establish a communication path?
21:24
On June 17, 2023 I'm giving (via Zoom) the first in a series of workshops on LaTeX for physics faculty at two-year colleges (also called community colleges here in America). I will repeat it in person at the American Association of Physics Teachers Summer Meeting in Sacramento, CA in July. This first workshop will emphasize setting up a workflow on Overleaf and establishing good LaTeX habits.
@LaTeXereXeTaL Good luck! Setting up good habits is so hard, since there's a lot of old information out there, and people are compulsive preamble copiers, in my experience.
I want to emphasize things like using (...) and [...] rather than $...$ and $$...$$, correct (non)use of \left...\right, using x^{3} rather than x^3, etc. What other simple things should I include as a foundation for good habits?
@LaTeXereXeTaL I don't think many of us here are convinced that \( ... \) is to be preferred over $...$.
3
@AlanMunn The target demographic is total newcomers to LaTeX and/or those who have tried it but got frustrated with it. If they're starting from a blank slate it will be easy for me.
Future workshops will focus on things like creating tests, homework templates for students, bibliography/reference managament, plots and graphs, and other things relevant to teaching physics.
@LaTeXereXeTaL Some things I tend to emphasize: semantic markup. So as a rule of thumb, if you find yourself using \textbf/it/sf inside your actual text, you're probably doing something you shouldn't.
@LaTeXereXeTaL Understanding that packages are your friends, but that you should use the minimum set you need.
21:32
@AlanMunn I want to prepare them well enough to be able to ask good questions here when necessary (because it WILL be necessary) without being chastised for not "doing it right." And yes, semantic markup is at the top of the list. This first installment won't use any packages at all.
@LaTeXereXeTaL Don't make a "default" preamble/package.
BTW, a linguist approached me asking whether or not the workshop would be appropriate for his first year grad students. I said probably, because the basics are always the same but that future installments will focus on physics content. This person said he knew of you from your activity here. All I know is the person's Mastodon handle.
@LaTeXereXeTaL Personally I'm not sure that's the approach I would take. I tend to think in terms of "what kinds of tasks do people need to do", and that's almost always going to involve packages. See amunn.github.io/assets/latex/latex-guide.pdf
@AlanMunn That's too overwhelming for the intended audience. Specific tasks will come later.
@LaTeXereXeTaL For a nice introduction somewhat aimed at linguists, but not exclusively, see adamliter.org/content/LaTeX/latex-workshop-for-linguists.pdf from a former student of mine.
21:36
@LaTeXereXeTaL Obligatory plug: learnlatex.org/en
@AlanMunn These are people who don't understand how to let the document class do its job of formatting, spacing, etc. They want to insert all kinds of spacing commands for visual appearance and not focus on content.
@LaTeXereXeTaL I wasn't meaning that as the content of an intro, but I do think that there are a bunch of things that people do need to know and focusing on details too early can be bad.
@JosephWright It's on my list of resources.
@LaTeXereXeTaL Great! Don't forget to pass the joy. 😂
@LaTeXereXeTaL Right, but that's why I think that you need to focus on higher level things like "how to I modify X" where X is section heading, footers, lists etc. But that's just my view of how to do things.
21:40
@AlanMunn That will overwhelm this demographic. I don't want to show them how to modify anything because I want to, as much as possible, erase the "word processing" state of mind from their brains. I don't want them fiddling with things yet.
@AlanMunn I completely understand your point though.
@LaTeXereXeTaL I understand the demographic; it's similar to teaching LaTeX to grad students. But I do think that just teaching principles without having people come away thinking they can do what they normally do it's hard to get people on board with the enterprise.
@LaTeXereXeTaL -- I'll be giving a talk at the TUG meeting on "Things a LaTeX newbie should know". It's based largely on the syntax-type questions that are collected in the meta posting here, "Frequently asked questions". I'm still working on the prose and slides, but I'll be happy to send you a copy of my reasonably well organized notes if you send me yur email address (I'm bnb at tug dot org.)
@LaTeXereXeTaL In linguistics of course we have some built in selling points, since example numbering, glosses and trees are infinitely easier to do with LaTeX than with Word.
A huge thrust will be promoting floating point computation and LaTeX as a computational environment. This has the potential to change physics instruction in a huge, and unexpected way. No one has seen LaTeX coming.
@AlanMunn I want them to compile a document with zero errors or warnings BEFORE learning how to break...erm...fiddle with things. Many colleagues have told me they have been told outright that warnings and errors are impossible to avoid. That's a barrier to them. I PROMISE all the applications are coming.
@barbarabeeton Thank you for the heads up. I will happily accept your offer. I am heafnerj at gmail dot com.
I thought there was a Kindle version of TLC3 but apparently there isn't one.
21:59
@LaTeXereXeTaL It's a PDF
@JosephWright Found it on the publisher's site.
@LaTeXereXeTaL it will come but isn't finished yet.
@UlrikeFischer Excellent! Thank you.
22:28
@JosephWright there is a user to delete on the main site ...
Yikes. Seems like a bot?
@LaTeXereXeTaL -- message sent. Let me know if it doesn't arrive by tomorrow morning. I've been having problems with my net connection, and some things have gotten lost recently. (Or I may have typed your address incorrectly.)
@UlrikeFischer -- Look up that name under users, and there are multiples -- four when I looked!
@barbarabeeton It arrived intact! Many thanks!
BTW, one thing I will stress hard in my workshops is that if they need to post to TeX.SE to ALWAYS include a MWE.
22:46
@LaTeXereXeTaL -- YES! So many things are defined in the document class, if that isn't known, they're only shortchanging themselves.
@JosephWright Is absorbing siunitx into the kernel a potential future possibility?
@barbarabeeton I agree completely.

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