5:24 AM
@StefanKottwitz Thanks for the DNS help (thanks also to @DavidCarlisle and @MarcelKrüger) - we seem to be more-or-less sorted

2 hours later…
7:06 AM
Anyone got the May 2020 Win 10 update yet?

7:25 AM
@StefanKottwitz Could do with a clue as to what to set!
@UlrikeFischer I've been reading it. The header stuff is for making separation plates, which we don't need. The part about setcustomcolor is a little confusing as there is no good example. I can find that approach used once, in drivers.dtx for TeXtures-style color (!): it uses findcmykcustomcolor and setcustomcolor back-to-back.
@UlrikeFischer I'm still far from clear how spot colors are supposed to be set up in PostScript: I have a feeling it was expected people would manually make separate plates, which is very different from the PDF workflow. Might just have to go with 'dump the name and hope for some .pro file' approach
@UlrikeFischer , @DavidCarlisle Will read my copy of the LaTeX Graphics Companion!

7:46 AM
@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle Now trying the bits that didn't make it to print: xml.web.cern.ch/XML/lgc2/tlgc2extra.pdf
@DavidCarlisle, @StefanKottwitz tex.ac.uk now working: I think we are all-sorted
@StefanKottwitz I wonder if it would make sense to add Google Search Console domain info to texfaq.org? (I'm using the DNS-based approach for learnlatex.org and texdev.net)

@JosephWright that is more or less what was in the first edition (which I have too).
@JosephWright Imho "dump the name" is the right approach. The code should allow to replace the "/Spot cs value scn" output with something else for a backend when a color is used, and then we can worry about the details later, when someone really needs it (and can offer some details).

8:03 AM
@UlrikeFischer :)
@UlrikeFischer That part is already done :)

@JosephWright anything new? Or through the color_backend_select I used with my fake spot color?

@UlrikeFischer The existing stuff: I meant that the backend at present just saves the name into the PostScript

@JosephWright and how can be adjusted what exactly is written? Eg. if xdvipdfmx now extends its color syntax, can the backend command be adjusted for all spot colors through a switch in the document?

8:24 AM
@UlrikeFischer At the moment, no, but we will have to examine the dvipdfmx case anyway (at present it's set up like dvips, but the proposed changes mean it will be more different)
@UlrikeFischer Actually, will be reasonably easy to extend for this one case

@JosephWright yes, I'm more wondering about abstraction levels, and this syntax change is a quite good test imho.

@UlrikeFischer All that's needed is an appropriate definition for \@@_backend_family_separation:nn at present (we'll also need the setup part, bu we've got to create that yet)
@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer First time I've really needed to look at the graphics companion: I see it's got a nice section on beamer :)
@DavidCarlisle, @StefanKottwitz Hopefully Karl will now be happy(er)

8:39 AM
@JosephWright I saw it yesterday too -- I had completly forgotten it.

@UlrikeFischer You realise with Frank writing TLC3, you, @DavidCarlisle and I are likely going to be asked to write TLGC3! :)
@UlrikeFischer I can adjust that part easily, it's the set up I'm still working out

@JosephWright where do you see problems here?

@UlrikeFischer Only in as much as we need to decide how the data is passed: it is basically PDF-like in all cases

9:11 AM
@JosephWright perhaps I'm overlooking something, but how can I group in blocks of four digits in siunitx instead of three digits?

Hi
I prepared a document in which I have three authors, two of them belong in the same institution and other in a different institute. I am trying to write that in an efficient way
So I want to write each institution address once
I tried using footnotes
using labels but getting error
any help?

This is quite offtopic, but the mention to PDF as an old format is relevant to us:
2
:)

9:40 AM
11

There's currently no support for this in siunitx. You can do it with some different code: \documentclass{article} \usepackage{xparse,siunitx} \ExplSyntaxOn \NewDocumentCommand{\groupfour}{O{,}m} { \mikew_groupfour:nn { #1 } { #2 } } \tl_new:N \l_mikew_groupfour_separator_tl \tl_new:N \l_m...

@JosephWright ah the textures driver I knew I'd seen it somewhere, interesting as I wrote the first version of that without any access to a mac, just with some emails with Art O (who later took it over, so I stopped extracting it from drivers.dtx)
@BAYMAX most journal classes have specific markup for that but they are all very class-specific

@JosephWright It also has ducks in it!

9:55 AM
@PauloCereda presumably the universe had learned that premature optimisation is a bad thing and gone back to PostScript

@DavidCarlisle ooh a stack-based language

@DavidCarlisle Indeed

@JosephWright you too? Yay!

@DavidCarlisle I'm not at all sure if it works

@JosephWright feature request? :)

10:02 AM
@JosephWright you mean if it worked if you had textures running?

@DavidCarlisle I mean I'm not sure what the PostScript result actually is: the reference says that the various operations are not built-in
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I'm aware of it: has come up in the past. I really need to find time to finish v3, then I can address this sort of thing. But there is a lot of L3 to do ...

@DavidCarlisle yeah

@JosephWright yes but who knows what header textures was adding already. I'm sure that it worked at the time but I never tried it myself:-)

but can i make a simple one myself?
not the journal style

10:04 AM
@DavidCarlisle Very true
@DavidCarlisle A reason that someone should by me a new Dell XPS MacBook Pro 13-inch

\author{baymax \footnote{\label{u1}university A}, naymax\footnote{university B}, zaymax{\ref{u1}}}

@DavidCarlisle How did the latexcgi.xyz stats look yesterday? Google Search Console suggested we got a few hits

@BAYMAX sure it depens where you want the address, in article you could use \author{me and you\\ university one \and third author\\university two} or \author{you\footnotemark[1]\and me\footnotemark[1] \and third\footnotemark[2]} with \footnotetext[1]{address one} \footnotetext[2]{address 2} somewhere
@JosephWright not really:
Thu Jul  9 09:24:49 UTC 2020
Number of distinct users:     0
Number of document requests:  0
Number of documents returned: 6
Number of unique user agents: 0
Wed Jul  8 23:35:32 UTC 2020
Number of distinct users:     4
Number of document requests:  18
Number of documents returned: 10
Number of unique user agents: 4
Tue Jul  7 23:40:38 UTC 2020
Number of distinct users:     6
Number of document requests:  66
Number of documents returned: 30
Number of unique user agents: 6
Mon Jul  6 23:58:36 UTC 2020
@JosephWright stats for today look "interesting" I ought to check:-)

Thanks, I will try!

@JosephWright oh I renamed the script yesterday from p2 to latexcg so the stats search is wrong, give me a sec....
@JosephWright vvv
Thu Jul  9 10:17:03 UTC 2020
Number of distinct users:     2
Number of document requests:  14
Number of documents returned: 11
Number of unique user agents: 3
Wed Jul  8 23:35:32 UTC 2020
Number of distinct users:     4
Number of document requests:  21
Number of documents returned: 10
Number of unique user agents: 4
Tue Jul  7 23:40:38 UTC 2020
Number of distinct users:     6
Number of document requests:  66
Number of documents returned: 30
Number of unique user agents: 6

@DavidCarlisle So still just testing

@yo' ooh

@JosephWright yes

1 hour later…
11:45 AM
@JosephWright thanks! <3

1 hour later…
1:04 PM
@DavidCarlisle One for you :)
1

I have TeX Live 2019 installed on my server and generate PDFs from a LaTeX-Template with a server-side scripting language (PHP 7). I have to insert data from the database (untrusted data) and also some data from the users (also untrusted data) into that template (dynamic LaTeX document) and then ...

@JosephWright Go back to Word you big wuss
:)

@JosephWright I was experimenting with @DavidCarlisle suggestion to change error_line and half_error_line to get better expl3 error messages. That works quite well but broke also some tests. Should regression-test force standard values here?

1:56 PM
@JosephWright yes I saw that and had a quick look at some of the example issues but I decided best not to reply
@UlrikeFischer I think breaking tests is more or less only downside, I don't think many people really need to format error messages to fit on an 80 column punched card these days

@UlrikeFischer We can happily force the issue, yes
@UlrikeFischer Backward-compatible would be to default to 79
@DavidCarlisle Usual argument is that longer lines are a PITA in the Terminal or similar, or even in an editor that's not blown up to take up the entire screen

@JosephWright depends how you phrase the question, "do you want long lines that may wrap inconveniently" and "would you rather have the information not shown" may get different answers.

@DavidCarlisle that wasn't what I mean. The problem is that if I save a test with "loose" settings which contains some show commands it will break on travis later, if this uses the standard settings. So basically we need the same settings everywhere (and loose settings would be fine with me).

@UlrikeFischer oh yes you'd want to set them in a texmf.cnf saved with the tests, not with a local setting in your installation or set maxprintline in build.lua so should be same anywhere

@DavidCarlisle True

2:08 PM
@DavidCarlisle yes, exactly. It would be also ok if the test environment uses the currently standard short values (so that not all sort tests have to be recreated), but it would be nice if my "normal" environment would show more of the commands. It makes debugging easier if the main part of a command is not replaced by dots ...

@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer I can never remember how (half)_error_line and max_print_line interact, l3build just has a variable for maxprintline, is that enough to get the long lines printed here?
@UlrikeFischer we could request the texlive defaults change for latex, might be a bit controversial though

@DavidCarlisle The half business? Don't remember at all

@JosephWright I seem to remember last time I understood that it required reading the source and experimenting with several examples, but I can't remember anything now:-)

I have no idea ;-) I simply trusted you and put in error_line=200
and half_error_line=150 which gave something more sensible.

2:24 PM
@UlrikeFischer ooh trust

@PauloCereda me not you though, you notice

@DavidCarlisle we ducks are very trusty

s/ru/a/

Oh no

@PauloCereda It's OK: ducks don't understand sed

2:40 PM
@DavidCarlisle ooh we understand seeds :)
@HaraldHanche-Olsen hi, miss you! <3

@UlrikeFischer I realise I didn't include a separate PDF and TeX name set up for \color_model_new:nnn. But then I wonder if the PDF name is truly general, or should be one of the (required) keyval entries. Thoughts? (I'll do this then look at setup more generally)

@JosephWright what do you mean by PDF name?

@PauloCereda yours?

2:56 PM
@yo' Nah, I saw the image on the internet. :)

@JosephWright If you mean the name here /Separation /BarTone#20555#20GN: that is the name of the color "in the real world", when declaring the color it must be given correctly. This here /&BarTone#20555#20GN cs is arbitrary. It could also be /blub cs. The main problem is to get some name space (and a unique name). For properties and files I used currently names starting with l3 and some number: /l3pdf1 and /l3ef0001 (the name tree for files must be sorted lexically, so I added zeros.)

@PauloCereda ah

@StefanKottwitz yes

6
Breaking news: Today Mönchengladbach police saved a mole.

3:11 PM
@UlrikeFischer ooh

@UlrikeFischer I mean the 'real world' name, which as I understand it can be different from the TeX one; on the /&.. name, we perhaps should simply use a serial number as you suggest, although the colorspace scheme does keep things readable
@UlrikeFischer My thinking is that DeviceN, etc., don't have a 'real name', so it should not be a required argument to \color_model_new:nnn, but rather a required key: does that make sense?

@JosephWright as the real world name can contains spaces and so on (and be rather long and difficult to remember) one should have some tex alias. And the colorspace syntax makes it more readable, but you have to pass the name through pdfname-escaping, and it juggles with catcodes to handle the &, this looks a bit unnecessary.

@UlrikeFischer Spaces, etc., I agree are an issue; perhaps we should just use an internal marker as that avoids any question of having to track the 'safety'

3:28 PM
@JosephWright yes, something like \color_model_new:nn {somename}{type=DeviceN, key1= ..., key2=....}, or \color_model_new:nnn {somename}{DeviceN}{key1=, key2=} looks sensible. Then the keys can depend on the model type.

@UlrikeFischer Exactly: the model family is required, so I've made it a separate argument. I'll adjust how the 'real name' is handled a bit, then look to start on the actual initialisation code (which will depend on hooks/l3pdf, so only be active if they are available)

4:08 PM
@UlrikeFischer NIMBY!

1 hour later…
5:17 PM

@JosephWright loading order can be hard. setting the pdf version requires the backend code, which requires some key to set the backend, which require xparse to define a suitable command which already loads the backend ;-(. The good news is, that with the dev version and xparse early it works ...

5:32 PM
@DavidCarlisle @DavidCarlisle I was able to solbe the loop/expand/outfile/etc. problem:
\documentclass[]{article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage{pgfplotstable}
\begin{document}
\section{In the Document and as outfile - good}

\newwrite\kanaoutfile
\newcommand{\row}{}% reserv Name
\foreach[count=\y from 0] \Y  in {yy, K,S,T,N,H,M,Y,R,W}{%%%
\let\row=\empty% create List
\foreach[count=\x from 0] \X  in {xx, A,I,U,E,O,N}{%%
\pgfmathparse{\y==0 ? (\x==0 ? "yy" : (\x==6 ? "\X" : "--\X")) :
(\x==0 ? "\Y--" : (\x==6 ? (\y==1 ? "\X" : "nn") : "\Y\X"))}%

5:43 PM
@JosephWright -- I hope you have a desktop with a bigger screen. 13in is awfully small. 15in is tight. (But the 17in package isn't practical to carry around.)

@barbarabeeton 15.6"? :)

@PauloCereda -- Probably luggable.

6:29 PM
...
...
...
Is there actually a command by default that makes upper case lower case and vice versa?

\cmd {ABC} -> abc

\cmd {abc} -> ABC

@cis \MakeUppercase and \MakeLowercase

@PhelypeOleinik but this not one command but two ....

@UlrikeFischer Ah, right, one command. @cis Sorry, I misunderstood

@PhelypeOleinik Very Good, thx.

@UlrikeFischer I don't think what @cis wanted exists. Certainly not built-in, and since I can't for the life of me figure out why anybody would want such a thing, I rather doubt that anybody has written a command for it.

6:38 PM
A case switch thingy?

@UlrikeFischer (sorry to be pinging you on it. I hadn't noticed at fist it was you and not cis writing.)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I don't know what @cis wanted, only the example looked like one command that switches.

@UlrikeFischer Yes, that would be even better.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I'm just thinking about a pull request that wants to add norwegian support to hyperref ...

@UlrikeFischer Oh? How is that language dependent?

6:42 PM

@DonHosek -- (I still can't post on the main site.) In tex.stackexchange.com/q/552820 , the OP wants diagrams numbered. It's possible to use '\includegraphics' within a math display, so the equation environment should work.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen the autorefnames are language dependant. And beside this hyperref disables/redefines a few shorthands in the bookmarks and so on. But I don't like this very much. Imho it doesn't fit in, I would prefer to move this to a better place

@UlrikeFischer Without ever having had a close look at this, my immediate reaction is to agree.

6:56 PM

But I would like to have to create the raw data table 1.1 only once for reasons of elegance, so a "uppercase <--> lowercase method" has to be used.
\documentclass[]{article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage{pgfplotstable}
\usepackage{collcell}
\begin{document}
\section{In the Document and as outfile - good}

\subsection{Data}
\newwrite\kanaoutfile
\newcommand{\row}{}% reserv Name
\foreach[count=\y from 0] \Y  in {{}, {}, K,S,T,N,H,M,Y,R,W}{%%%
\let\row=\empty% create List
\foreach[count=\x from 0] \X  in {{}, A,I,U,E,O,N}{%%
\pgfmathparse{
\y==0 ?  (\x==0 ? "yyy" : (\x==6 ? "\X" : "--\X"))  :

@DavidCarlisle Should you want to know which headers TeXtures added I could find out. In my University there is at least one group which still uses that system.

7:11 PM
@MarcelKrüger ooh

@barbarabeeton I'm assuming that the exe environment is doing his numbering and without the figure environment all will work as he expects.

@DonHosek -- Okay. I'll just add my own answer when my new laptop is available.

7:42 PM
@DonHosek @barbarabeeton The exe environment is from gb4e which is a package for numbering examples and doing gloss alignment. But this question is really an XY problem. There should be no need to insert trees as images generally, so really the OP needs to solve that problem.
@barbarabeeton So suggesting using equation is really not going to be helpful.

@AlanMunn -- Of course. (You might consider suggesting that, maybe with some encouragement.)

@barbarabeeton I have in my comment.

@AlanMunn -- I failed to notice that you were the perpetrator of useful comments. Apologies. (Of course, that would have more impact as an answer.)

@barbarabeeton :)

1 hour later…
8:47 PM
@PauloCereda I saw you in a video of one of my favorite bands!
Btw. it's my favorite because of this concert in Wacken, Germany: youtube.com/watch?v=q9eKLPCciWw
It heals me from the music that my 3 kids listen to...

9:19 PM
@DavidCarlisle hi, but where to place \footnotetext[1]{} ?

@BAYMAX anywhere on the first page

oh let me try!

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}
\title{zzz}
\author{you\footnotemark[1] \and me\footnotemark[1] \and someone\footnotemark[2]}
\maketitle

zzz
{\renewcommand\thefootnote{\fnsymbol{footnote}}%
\end{document}
@BAYMAX ^

oh cool
I tried the former one and it worked!
now I am thinking how to enter email address in a similar way
If I want to insert some keywords without numbering the footnotes, I can use
\nnfootnote{Keywords: Sylow group, centralizer, center}
?

sorry I don't understand you should probably ask a question on site what is \nnfootnote?

9:31 PM
hmm
Actually, I do not want to number the footnote
much before I saw an answer here using \nnfootnote but may be that's a new user command

@BAYMAX the code I suggested uses * \dagger not number, or do you mean you want no symbol at all?

It is fine to have symbol for the author names
but while writing keywords I do not want to use any symbol as it never refers to any text

@BAYMAX vvv
\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}
\title{zzz}
\author{you\footnotemark[1] \and me\footnotemark[1] \and someone\footnotemark[2]}
\maketitle

zzz
{\renewcommand\thefootnote{\fnsymbol{footnote}}%
\footnotetext[0]{not really a footnote}
\end{document}

9:48 PM
oh cool! thank you for your help!
\fnsymbol does the trick i think
also [0] does the trick
In case it will be useful
8

I use something like the following to get a footnote without an anchor. \documentclass{article} \usepackage{hyperref} \begin{document} {\let\thefootnote\relax\footnotetext{2010 Mathematics Subject Classification: 05A05, 05A16.}} \end{document} The hyperref package doesn't like this and produce...

@UlrikeFischer @MarcelKrüger do you make use of ISO/IEC 10036:1996 (registered glyph identifiers for cjk fonts using multiple glyphs at the same unicode slot)?

@DavidCarlisle here in place of 1,2 can we place *, \dagger?
@DavidCarlisle actually i meant this one
sorry

@BAYMAX 1 ,2 produce 8 and dagger so i don't understand the question

@DavidCarlisle hmm, where does this question come from?

@UlrikeFischer one of my other hats actually it seems also to relate to AFII as listed in @barbarabeeton's infamous stix table

9:56 PM
@DavidCarlisle actually, I see dagger and * beside author names but I see 1 and 2 near the university names
I want to match them!
dagger at author should match to a dagger of uni name

@BAYMAX run the document I posted above you get symbols in both positions

@DavidCarlisle you mean variant selectors?

\newcommand\nnfootnote[1]{%
\begin{NoHyper}
\renewcommand\thefootnote{}\footnote{#1}%
\end{NoHyper}
}\author{A1\footnotemark[1], A2\footnotemark[1], A3\footnotemark[2], A4\footnotemark[1]}
\footnotetext[1]{Department of nature}
\footnotetext[2]{School of latex}
tricky for me
the above produces 1 and 2 near department and school
but dagger and * near A1, A2, A3, A4

@BAYMAX wrap the last two lines in a group specifying fnsymbol as I did above

Awesome@DavidCarlisle
but i wonder why this worked hehe
\fnsymbol does something?

10:14 PM
@UlrikeFischer -- Variant selectors are pure Unicode. Nothing to do with ISO 10036, unless they were added after I was no longer on that committee. (It's not easy to access my copy of 10036, which is buried in an unmarked box, among a couple dozen other unmarked boxes. Sigh.)

@BAYMAX it makes * dagger double dagger, ... its a standard latex counter print format just as \arabic make 1,2,3 and \roman makes i, ii, iii
@barbarabeeton @barbarabeeton it came up as there is a draft review of an ISO update/replacement for 10036

@DavidCarlisle -- Ah, interesting. Is it online anywhere? I'd be interested to look at it. (I think there may be no one from the U.S. on the committee any more. Sometime after I left, the convenor, from the U.S., turned over control to the senior delegate from Japan. At that time, most of the participants represented countries from East Asia.)

10:40 PM
oh cool! thank you@DavidCarlisle

11:32 PM
A random question off topic:
We do things repeatedly/ periodically to which we are attracted to
can you please let me know if you agree or disagree with the above statement?
just collecting a random survey for my talk
^ an example of our body clock!

Hello all! I am interested in solving a problem that I have. Please consider the following MWE:
\documentclass{beamer}

\begin{document}

\begin{frame}[t]
\begin{block}{}

Text\pause

\begin{enumerate}
\item<2-> Some text

\begin{itemize}
\only<3-4>{
\item<3-> More text
\item<4-> More more text
}
\only<5-6>{
\item<5-> Put more text
\item<6-> Text
}
\end{itemize}
\end{enumerate}

\end{block}
\end{frame}

\end{document}
The error is that it does not recognize any \item because they are inside \only command. If we delete just one \only, the error dissapears
I want the display to be the MWE. How can we prevent the error? Or provide a link, please. Thank you!!

11:55 PM
why not use \item<3-4> ?