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7:39 AM
texlive 2020 released (at least in some mirrors)
7:50 AM
@UlrikeFischer I suppose that the way to switch pretest to tl2020 is this one tex.stackexchange.com/questions/313271/…, with https - - - is that true? Thanks!
@Rmano as Joseph wrote the answer ... ;-).
@UlrikeFischer :)
@Rmano Generally I would do tlmgr option repository ctan. But until all mirrors have catched up you will perhaps have to select a specific repository.
8:27 AM
TL20[romano:~/texlive2020] 20s % tlmgr update --all
tlmgr: package repository http://osl.ugr.es/CTAN/systems/texlive/tlnet (verified)
tlmgr: no updates available
@UlrikeFischer Yay ^^^
8:58 AM
@UlrikeFischer Zap all the Travis-CI caches :)
@JosephWright ah yes. I should start to check this.
@UlrikeFischer I've done l3build, latex3, latex2e
@UlrikeFischer And add luahbtex to all the installations
9:15 AM
@JosephWright do I still need a specialformat entry for lualatex? If I set simply checkengines = {"luahbtex"} it tries to create a format and fails, without checkengines = {"luahbtex"} it works, but tests also pdftex and xetex.
@JosephWright a checkengines = {"luatex"} seems to work and runs luahbtex ;-).
Happy Good Friday!
@MarcelKrüger I'm just running the luaotfload test suite with tl2020 and get lots of failures of this type:
***** .\BUILD\TEST\automatichyphenmode.luatex.tlg
   13:  .\TU/lmr/m/n/10 h
   14:  .\kern-0.28 (font)
   15:  .\TU/lmr/m/n/10 y
   13:  .\TU/lmr/m/n/10 h
   14:  .\kern-0.28
   15:  .\TU/lmr/m/n/10 y
9:37 AM
@UlrikeFischer l3build normalises away the (font) to make luatex log more compatible with etex, is it missing the luatex specifics due to luahbtex changes...
@UlrikeFischer happy new year
@DavidCarlisle well the tlg is old, it is in the new log that l3build removes the (font). But in the real log the (font) is there, so perhaps one could convince l3build to leave it - then I don't have to check 40 fc-files or so.
@UlrikeFischer I forget the exact test but the luatex-specific normalisation isn't done on luatex-only tests only cross engine tests for compatibility, so I'd guess its related to that (but waiting for Joseph is easier than checking the source:-)
@DavidCarlisle changing line 371 of the lua from if luatex and to if luahbtex and lets the test past. But curiously using if ( luahbtex or luatex) and doesn't work. What is wrong with this?
I read this thread
Q: How to change the way theorems are displayed?

Bran the BlessedI am in the process of writing a large document containing some theorems, lemma, and propositions. Currently, I am using packages amsmath and amsthm. I defined my own environment for theorems by adding \theoremstyle{plain} \newtheorem{thm} {Theorem}[chapter] to the preamble. However, I am not ...

and I read the file amsthm.sty
But: How can I find out what the default-style 'definition' look like?
\newtheoremstyle{definition}% name of the style to be used
  {\topsep}% measure of space to leave above the theorem. E.g.: 3pt
  {\topsep}% measure of space to leave below the theorem. E.g.: 3pt
  {\itshape}% name of font to use in the body of the theorem
  {0pt}% measure of space to indent
  {\bfseries}% name of head font
  {.}% punctuation between head and body
  { }% space after theorem head; " " = normal interword space
  {\thmname{#1}\thmnumber{ #2}\thmnote{ (#3)}\index{#3}}% custom head specification
@UlrikeFischer For some reason, I only get failures in add-uppercase-feature (and config-unicode-math but they fail here anyway)
9:53 AM
Upps I read this thread too:
Q: amsthm: what are the newtheoremstyle parameters for the default styles?

peterThe package amsthm contains the predefined theorem styles plain, definition and remark which you can employ using \theoremstyle before your \newtheorem. You can also create new theorem styles like this: \newtheoremstyle{NAME}{ABOVESPACE}{BELOWSPACE}{BODYFONT}{INDENT}{HEADFONT}{HEADPUNCT}{HEADSPA...

@MarcelKrüger I adapted the build.lua and cleaned up the special format settings, perhaps that did change the l3build tests. But it is clearly a l3build doing and nothing in the luaotfload code.
@UlrikeFischer That's expected: The tests only pass if l3build does not recognize luatex. So changing to luahbtex let's the test "work" because luahbtex is not defined and therefore always false. luatex and luahbtex on the other hand is equivalent to luatex and therefore true when the engine is set to luatex.
@MarcelKrüger yes I just realized that we actually want the test to fail ;-).
@UlrikeFischer Do you also see the failure in add-uppercase-feature? It looks like a discretionary disappeared: EV\-ER became EVER and ev\-ery became every. Did the default hyphenation patterns change?
@MarcelKrüger but probably latex wants it to pass. So probably I will have to bite the bullet and recreate the tests.
10:07 AM
@UlrikeFischer I could take care of that, but especially for luaotfload it might actually make sense to test that the right kind of kern is created. So the best thing might be to add an option to allow LuaTeX specific log files.
Hi all! Good Friday!
@MarcelKrüger traditionally the type of kern is flagged by having or not having a space after \kern with font-specified kerns getting no space and kerns from \kern getting a space.
@DavidCarlisle I see. Then we can just adapt the tests.
@MarcelKrüger adding a special setting looks good. I added for a test (not luaotfloadspecial) and and set luaotfloadspecial in the build.lua and tests seems to pass.
@MarcelKrüger I saw it, but now it is gone again.
@UlrikeFischer Even after changing the "engine" and related settings to luatex, my tests still pass. Can you push the changes that lead to your failure?
10:22 AM
@MarcelKrüger I pushed the build lua and the config-harf.
10:37 AM
@UlrikeFischer I found the difference. The tests work fine if stdengine = "luatex" is explicitly set.
(Except for add-uppercase-feature)
10:52 AM
@UlrikeFischer Travis is happy again 😊
11:13 AM
@MarcelKrüger good!
11:24 AM
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz As far as I know, you secretly grilled sausages in the campus park, although the curfew!
Spell checking....
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Wasn't that you?
11:42 AM
@cis ? I don't grill sausages. I'm all for steak.
@PauloCereda Germans taking over the world again...
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ooh <3
@cis but German sausages are the Wurst.
11:57 AM
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Ah, I understand. My mistake.
4 hours later…
4:08 PM
@JosephWright travis is behaving weird. travis-ci.org/github/latex3/latex3/builds/673376710 it fails even though the previous commit passes all tests and the only changes were 3 typos in the documentation...
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I could clear the cache and re-run it? (may be related to the texlive update)
4:23 PM
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I think it's an issue with the TL installation: I've got an odd error on my local VM
@MarcelKrüger -- "EV-ER" should never happen. With \lefthyphenmin=2 and \righthyphenmin=3, no word shorter than 5 letters will be hyphenated. On the other hand, "EV-ERY" is definitely produced by the default patterns.
@barbarabeeton Or at least not until 'ev' becomes an adjective or a verb. :)
@AlanMunn -- Hi there. And what might a verb "ev" mean?
@barbarabeeton "Drive your Tesla/Prius" :)
As in Those Tesla evers ev around like they're better than everyone else.
@AlanMunn -- Nope. Will stick with my Saab until she crumbles into rust.
4:31 PM
@barbarabeeton Faster than teslas anyway.
On a related, but deliberately vague note, why is it that people still think that words have the meanings in dictionaries, rather than what any linguist will tell you, that word meanings are determined by the words use in a speech community.
@DavidCarlisle -- Why not? Except it won't fit in our driveway.
@barbarabeeton And it must be a pain to clear the snow off in the winter.
@barbarabeeton probably it could arrange to flatten the house to make room
BTW it snowed here yesterday.
4:34 PM
@AlanMunn -- I'm reading "The Dictionary Wars", largely about Noah Webster. I think you might find his views interesting.
@DavidCarlisle -- We do have a standalone house, but the entire lot isn't big enough to hold one of those.
@AlanMunn Not very snowy here this weekend
@DavidCarlisle Well two days ago it was 17C. Welcome to Michigan "spring".
@AlanMunn 23 here today apparently. Abnormally warm for April
@AlanMunn -- We can only claim a thunderstorm. (But not the first of the year.)
@barbarabeeton Yes we had a thunderstorm too. And yesterday we had graupel as well as snow.
4:40 PM
@DavidCarlisle We had +2 °C and a bit of snow this morning …
@AlanMunn i had to look up graupel … in a dictionary. But of course, I have no idea if the dictionary agrees with your usage.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen lol
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I hadn't to look it up, I only wondered why it wasn't written Graupel ;-).
@UlrikeFischer We English have streamlined our spelling system. :)
@AlanMunn you have a spelling system?
@JosephWright One for you to fix.
Q: Error with package answers using \Writetofile

user212305Compiling this file \documentclass{article} \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} \usepackage{answers} \Newassociation{sol}{Solucao}{solucoes} \newtheorem{exer}{Exercício} \begin{document} \section{Exercícios} \Opensolutionfile{solucoes} \Writetofile{solucoes}{\protect\section{Soluções}} \begin{exer} D...

4:48 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Absolutely. We spell like it's still 1400.
@JosephWright \let\protect\string does nothing when in the place where it currently is. Better, now it does weird things, because \protected@iwrite contains \nobreak that expands to \protect\nobreak and you can guess what happens.
5:03 PM
@AlanMunn nah, the french spell like it's still 1400. You spell like it's still decided by dice.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz a unique ability to insult two nations at once? :)
@DavidCarlisle not sure if that'll help (if it's true what @JosephWright writes), but if you could give it a try I'd be grateful.
@yo' I'm doing my best :)
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz If the French spelled like it was 1400 they wouldn't need the circumflex.
@AlanMunn well, the French are doing their best to not change their language in any way (at least in written form). Their spelling looks like they didn't update to the way they pronounce things at all.
@AlanMunn you're right, I missed my guess a hundred years:
> The circumflex first appeared in written French in the 16th century.
5:09 PM
@AlanMunn they don't really need it. For many of them it's superfluous. What they need is the umlaut for words like naïve or Nicolaï
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I did and it didn't help:)
@DavidCarlisle great. Now I'm grateful, but disappointed at the same time :)
Currently rsyncing TL :)
5:37 PM
@yo' Well yes, but since this thread started about the fact that 'graupel' should have been capitalized, superfluousness is clearly besides the point. :)
@egreg Sigh
@AlanMunn oh
@JosephWright Actually, \let\protect\string has never done anything at all, because \protected@(i)write does \let\protect\@unexpandable@protect later on.
@JosephWright Hi, I left a request at 'l3build':) Saludos
@JosephWright I guess it's a remain of when the code used \immediate\write.
5:40 PM
@PabloGonzálezL I'd seen
@egreg Yes, I know: it's been there from the time I took over
@JosephWright Thanks
5:52 PM
@JosephWright the latex3 test fails locally too, I get a fatal format error:
---! lualatex.fmt was written by luatex
(Fatal format file error; I'm stymied)..
@UlrikeFischer Ah I think I see why
@JosephWright you have instructions to build the formats in the build-config and it uses luatex. That is rather obvious. I only don't know how to use luahbtex here (I do find it confusing that I still have to set the "luatex" engine, to actually get luahbtex.
6:12 PM
@yo' maybe I should mail overleaf support but since you're here.... in overleaf.com/devs you show how to submit a file as a URI or from an in-memory strung, and also how to submit multiple files either using a URI to a zip file or multiple snip_uri[] parameters.... but I have multiple files as in-memory strings, and I don't seem to be able to submit them...
I can make data: uri but the snip_uri parameters want http, similarly I can make an in-memory zip but don't seem to be able to submit it..
@JosephWright guess what I'm doing ^^^ :-)
@DavidCarlisle you try to substitute your strange OS you mistook for an editor with an online editor?
@yo' what I'd line is a version of <form style=\"display:none\" id=\"form-pre" + i +"\" action=\"https://www.overleaf.com/docs\" method=\"post\" target=\"_blank\"><input id=\"encoded_snip-pre" + i + "\" name=\"encoded_snip[]\" value=\"\" /></form> which allows multiple encoded_snip
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz well make the open in overleaf button at learnlatex.github.io/en/lesson-12 open a project that includes the bib file
@DavidCarlisle obviously :) But I thought my guess is funnier.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I didn't understand it at all, but it's well known Germans don't do humour.
@DavidCarlisle Here is a fun fact about Germany: No fun in Germany, go back to work!
6:20 PM
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz That was no attempt of a joke, I hope. Back.
user image
For a short while I had another palindrome. Nice pattern, I think, but sorry 'bout the comma.
@StefanKottwitz that was a direct citation of a "joke" in the library of the chair I'm employed at.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz OMG mine wasn't. German.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz You didn't take it as another fun joke so you probably are @GermanSkillmonlikestopanswers.xyz.
@StefanKottwitz well, I answer questions on texwelt.de, so you know my mother tongue.
@StefanKottwitz well, after you added "Back" it became apparent, but my answer was already typed in at that point in time.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Back to work!
6:29 PM
@StefanKottwitz yes, my youngest has her Birthday tomorrow, so I should get back to preparations.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I have 3 kids and 1 dog and 1 cat and their boss at home in weeks of isolation. :-o
I'm teaching my youngest to work on flags.
The other ones fight for my PS4
@StefanKottwitz do you plan to get the FF7 remake? (I sadly don't own a PS4, else I would be playing it)
@StefanKottwitz are you not abroad currently?
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz just tell her its cancelled and carry on chatting here?
@DavidCarlisle :) She's already in bed and most of the preparations are done (no big party anyways thanks to COVID)
6:54 PM
random.tex isn't part of TL20 :(
or I screwed up some configuration during the installation...
Ok, scheme was full, so genmisc should've been part of the installation, but somehow it isn't.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I haven't it either. In tl2019 it was there.
@UlrikeFischer I know (since the documentation of expkv built until this morning, before I changed to TL2020)
7:19 PM
@UlrikeFischer which repository did you use for installation?
@AlanMunn -- Just learned that Maine had serious snow yesterday and overnight -- someplaces nearly two feet of it. And lots of power outages. Aah! Spring!
@UlrikeFischer I found that the mirror I used (ftp.fau.de/ctan/systems/texlive/tlnet/archive) doesn't have it in its archive, while ctan.ebinger.cc/tex-archive/systems/texlive/tlnet/archive has it for example.
Oh, that's because the latter doesn't have TL2020 yet.
@barbarabeeton I'd love to have snow :(
To whom do I have to send mail to grumble about genmisc missing?
@ m a k e i d x

Normally `\index{indexword}` puts 'indexword' into the index. Is it possible to create a command so, that

`\index{\noindex{not a indexword}}`

will not appear in the index?
Ah, found the address.
@cis why use \index on a single word if it shouldn't be in the index?
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz texlive mailing list.
7:34 PM
@UlrikeFischer tex-live@tug.org is the correct address. As I said, found it :)
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Hehe, there is a code like \index{#3}
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz sorry, I tend to read from the top and so saw first the question ;-)
\newtheoremstyle{mystyle}% neu
{\topsep}   % ABOVESPACE
{\topsep}   % BELOWSPACE
{}               % BODYFONT
{0pt}          % INDENT (empty value is the same as 0pt)
{\bfseries} % HEADFONT
{.}             % HEADPUNCT
{5pt plus 1pt minus 1pt} % HEADSPACE
{\thmname{#1}\thmnote{ \normalfont (#3)}\index{#3}}  % CUSTOM HEAD SPECIFICATION, entfernt: \thmnumber{ #2}
\theoremstyle{mystyle} % neu
@UlrikeFischer of course, and I'm thankful that you replied to that question :)
@cis that's arguably complete... Why do you include it in the definition if you don't want it to be added every time? My quick solution would be \newif\ifTheoremToIndex and change \index{#3} to \ifTheoremToIndex\index{#3}\fi. Then you can use \TheoremToIndextrue to switch it on and \TheoremToIndexfalse to switch it off.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Moment, let me check...
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Works well. Thx.
8:25 PM
@cis well don't do that then. do \def\zz{#3}\ifx\zz\mynonindexword\else\index{#3}\fi
@DavidCarlisle I think my \newif approach is prettier. Although yours is using a prettier macro name.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I was just answering the earlier question, saw the newtheorem example later:-)
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz @DavidCarlisle It works, that's fine. ;)
@cis our code always works, but mine's usually faster (as @Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz will confirm:-)
@DavidCarlisle @Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz

The better solution should be sth. with `thmtools`, I think and then [style=NoIndex], where `style=ToIndex` is the default.
8:36 PM
@DavidCarlisle but yours always gets replaced by stuff making it 20 times slower and contains the same hidden features for over 20 years.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz sorry I'm really busy at the moment, I can't listen to your excuses now.
@DavidCarlisle quack
9:20 PM
@DavidCarlisle worst part is that in this case, my solution is faster... :)
@UlrikeFischer Karl removed genmisc from TeXLive and decided to split the files up into their own packages removing everything that isn't free. Since random.tex doesn't contain a comment stating the license it got removed.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz yes, I saw the message. You could ask Donald to update it, if you need it. But why don't you use the expl3 functions?
@UlrikeFischer Karl is going to ask him. The culprit isn't me nor my documentation but randtext loading it.
9:37 PM
@PauloCereda dinner
@DavidCarlisle a bit late isn't it?
@UlrikeFischer it took longer to cook than expected, all that plucking...
1 hour later…
10:45 PM
@JosephWright -- i accidentally downvoted an answer that I meant to upvote. I've posted a question in meta, but if you can take care of reversing the goof, I'd much appreciate it.
@barbarabeeton I think you can just upvote and reverse your vote once.
@AlanMunn -- I did try to upvote, but the system was quite determined that I couldn't do that unless the posting was edited. And the answer doesn't need any edits -- not even a single typo!
@barbarabeeton Try now
@AlanMunn -- Thank you!!!
@barbarabeeton You can make invisible edits with comments. :)
11:00 PM
@AlanMunn -- Now that is a useful trivium!

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