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7:12 AM
@PhelypeOleinik You just have to say "math" and I'll run away screaming XD
 
quack
 
7:49 AM
ooh meeting
texdoc elephant
3
@DavidCarlisle ^^
 
8:07 AM
@PauloCereda this opens GIMP for me O.o
 
 
2 hours later…
9:47 AM
@Skillmon oh my
 
10:08 AM
@PhelypeOleinik or @JosephWright I don't remember, what's the preferred way of registering an l3 prefix, via issue or PR?
 
@Skillmon ooh spam
REGISTER YOUR PREFIX NOW
 
@PauloCereda no, the prefix is twmk.
 
@Skillmon ooh
 
@Skillmon I just saw a mail from Tobi about it.
 
@PauloCereda but spam sounds like a good one, too.
@UlrikeFischer oh, so he already did. Fine :)
 
10:11 AM
@Skillmon and he (or the robot) closed the issue.
 
@UlrikeFischer ooh a robot
My talk went terrible :)
Zoom was naughty
I was nervous
My phone started ringing with the time notification
I rushed through some slides
Acrobat didn't behave well
 
10:28 AM
@PauloCereda Don't worry, nobody realized it :)
 
@CarLaTeX nah :)
 
@Plergux math
 
@DavidCarlisle you are mean
 
@CarLaTeX did he use the title I suggested?
 
@DavidCarlisle No, it was wrong "farcire" is used for the filling
 
10:39 AM
 
Jan 20 at 21:26, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are not mean. :)
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh
 
@CarLaTeX It could not have been wrong, I used an infallible linguistic oracle.
 
Oh no, poor sheep lady is scared
 
@PauloCereda don't worry it will soon be lunchtime
 
10:40 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh no
 
@DavidCarlisle A pizza farcita is a calzone
 
@PauloCereda Which talk? And I'm sure you've done well and the small imperfections weren't as apparent to the audience as they were to you!
:56005987 you removed it too fast, I didn't see it :(
 
16 hours ago, by David Carlisle
@PauloCereda sui benefici della farcitura della pizza all'ananas
 
@Skillmon Link here: guitex.org/home/meeting
 
@CarLaTeX oh, I completely missed it :(
 
10:48 AM
@Skillmon You're on time for egreg's talk, but it's in Italian
 
@CarLaTeX which I have no idea of :) Also I'm about to get on the autobahn and drive to my parents.
 
@Skillmon next time :)
 
@CarLaTeX I'm watching it right now, I understand every 15th word or so :) Such as variabili :)
 
@Skillmon The same for me for German :)
 
@CarLaTeX ok, have to leave :)
 
10:56 AM
@Skillmon bye!
 
@PauloCereda lol, "lady". I only hear that about every ten years or so XD
 
@Plergux oopsie sorry if I shouldn't say that... English woes
LaTeX3 marketing in progress
 
@PauloCereda No, it's fine. It's just that this particular label for "female person" does not usually occur to people around me to describe me. :p
 
@Plergux normally "princess" ?
 
11:11 AM
@DavidCarlisle LOLOLOLOL, I think more often "dude" XD
 
@Plergux sheep person. :)
 
@PauloCereda "dinner"
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@DavidCarlisle you are mean
 
37 mins ago, by David Carlisle
Jan 20 at 21:26, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are not mean. :)
 
@DavidCarlisle oh
 
11:17 AM
@Skillmon PRs are marginally easier to handle
 
@JosephWright I sense... disturbance
@JosephWright how about a prefix database?
 
@PauloCereda a comma list is a database ;-)
 
@PauloCereda Yes, I am a sheep person. That means I love everything about them. Including having them for dinner. :p (Having been raised on a farm I have no qualms about "eating my friends" XD)
 
@UlrikeFischer /deep breath :)
@Plergux ooh
 
12:08 PM
@Paulo looked at CTAN today?
 
@StefanKottwitz what the..?
 
@schtandard Virtual Helloween in Lockdown time.
Scary AF :-D
 
@StefanKottwitz Indeed..
 
12:26 PM
@StefanKottwitz oh my goodness! It's 1990 again XD
 
12:56 PM
In other news :-) today our long delayed new Berlin airport opened and our new plane is greeting it.
 
1:15 PM
And bad news. The most sad Twitter trending page, honoring him. Good bye, Sir Sean Connery.
3
 
1:29 PM
@StefanKottwitz :,(
 
2:15 PM
> Some crows in Japan are known to drop walnuts on pedestrian crosswalks, wait for cars to crack the nuts by running them over, and then wait until the next light to safely eat the cracked nuts.
ooh crows are smart
 
@PauloCereda do you prefer Excel?
 
@Skillmon where's dbase? :)
 
2:30 PM
@PauloCereda Linux worktex 5.8.16-300.fc33.x86_64 #1 SMP Mon Oct 19 13:18:33 UTC 2020 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
:D
 
@PabloGonzálezL oooooh <3
@PabloGonzálezL by the way, expect a poking next week about some arara updates. :)
I wrote "year" instead of "week". Ouch. :)
 
@PauloCereda Great :)
@PauloCereda :(
 
@PabloGonzálezL next week. :)
 
@PauloCereda Hehehe ...
@PauloCereda Did you upgrade to fedora 33?
 
@PabloGonzálezL One laptop, clean install. I still have my main workstation (this one) and other old laptop. But I plan a clean install on both.
@PabloGonzálezL I am enjoying a lot, it's very polished.
 
2:37 PM
@PauloCereda Yes, what I do not understand much is that it no longer accesses the swap partition ... has another way to manage the memory when you fall short of RAM
 
@PabloGonzálezL Fedora 33 is now using zram which makes swap "useless". In a clean install, the partitioning scheme does not even create a swap partition (although you can manually create it).
 
@PauloCereda Interesting, I just updated, I hope to make a clean installation on my new laptop (which is my christmas present)
 
@PabloGonzálezL yay!
 
@PauloCereda It will be difficult for me not to create the swap partition, I have always done it :(
 
@PabloGonzálezL same here.
 
2:42 PM
@PauloCereda This will produce an effect similar to *-dev, making many tutorials obsolete :D
 
@PabloGonzálezL They could use arara and rely on the branch: developer key/value pair. :)
 
@PauloCereda It is an option, of course, they would encounter some dilemma with 'hooks' or 'expl3' and blame the arara
 
@PabloGonzálezL they are already blaming it. :)
 
@PauloCereda :/ jejej
@PauloCereda Do you know of any list (other than ltnews) that has the changes made to the LaTeX kernel (not the base packages) since 2018?
 
@PabloGonzálezL watching the GH movement? :)
 
2:49 PM
@PauloCereda Yes I do in general, I bumped into something the other day and I kept thinking about this, the golden book for TeX is The TeX book (which doesn't change over the years), but LaTeX has been modified a lot
 
@PabloGonzálezL we could blame @DavidCarlisle :)
 
@PauloCereda I was checking (latexref.xyz) and of course, as of today there are several changes and that is my "almost official" reference when looking for something from LaTeX
 
user image
2
@Plergux ^^^ we have a sheep too
 
@PauloCereda And yes, I think he is the culprit
 
@UlrikeFischer OOOOOOOOH
 
2:53 PM
@PabloGonzálezL there is a changes.txt in the base folder.
 
@UlrikeFischer Thanks, I had forgotten that file, of course, it is more comfortable to read ltnews.
 
3:12 PM
@PabloGonzálezL changes entry in source2e, if you want more compact than ltnews, or git log if you want something longer
@PauloCereda You have mis-spelled @UlrikeFischer again.
 
@DavidCarlisle Hello, the truth was looking for something more compact and visible in terms of user (not implementation), such as the use of spaces in mathematical mode and text, or passing calc-style measures to picture, things like that.
 
@PabloGonzálezL that's a very strange document, written in texinfo, but a tutorial on latex it's Ok I think but not at all a reference (and doesn't cover any recent changes)
@PabloGonzálezL ltnews was originally aimed to be that and was restricted to one page per release, but we've allowed it to get longer in recent releases
@PabloGonzálezL spaces in math mode?
 
@UlrikeFischer (0o0) So pretty :D (my son nearly fainted with envy XD)
 
@DavidCarlisle Excuse me, I am not used to translate what I think, I was referring to \, for example
 
@PabloGonzálezL ah them OK
 
3:20 PM
@DavidCarlisle It is quite comfortable as a reference, and it is the first thing that texdoc latex2e points to
@DavidCarlisle And it covers that, only LaTeX, does not refer to many packages and so on but to the basic things that one must handle :)
 
3:41 PM
@Plergux there's even a bacon bloke in the photo. :)
 
@PauloCereda Yeah, he is super cute too :D (piggies are almost as awesome as sheep :p)
 
4:36 PM
@PauloCereda Oh, Chris P. Bacon.
 
@Skillmon Did Chris P. Duck change the name?
 
@StefanKottwitz I think they are cousins (Asian names, starting with the family name).
 
@Skillmon A dinner appointment with both sounds awesome!
 
4:52 PM
@StefanKottwitz yes.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:47 PM
On this day when we may see odd creatures wandering about in the evening, here's the story of a little flying critter that I can't help feeling sorry for: nytimes.com/2020/10/22/science/…
 
@barbarabeeton I wish these creatures were still around.
 
@PhelypeOleinik You have an email :)
 
7:18 PM
@barbarabeeton well, it survived a few millions years. I am not sure if we can match that, seeing the behavior around...
The picture is nice, though. It made me remember a song called "Archeopterix" (only instrumentals) I liked a lot when I was 14 and that I am not able to find it again...
 
@Rmano what songs do you know today?
 
7:32 PM
@Rmano -- True enough. Even 50 years down the line it's likely that much of the world will be radically different from the way it is now. Different coastlines, smaller inland areas suitable for farming of any kind, reduced availability of drinkable water, irreversible plastic pollution, ... (I hope I'm wrong, but nature bats last, and basically doesn't care about people.)
 
@barbarabeeton :-( it's a dreadful image --- and I have a daughter, and I hope that sanity will win someday.
 
Sorry to bother, but can some English native speaker quickly summarise where to set a comma and where not.
 
@StefanKottwitz Not sure I understand --- ;-)
@Skillmon Put the phrase in grammarly and trust it :-P
 
@Rmano "some English native speaker" :P
 
@Skillmon I am native in Italian and almost in Spanish and I would not be able to explain why I put commas where I put them... :-P
 
7:37 PM
I'm currently proof reading my little sisters work. While I'm rather confident in chatting in English and I think my English isn't the worst out there, commas in English sometimes seem, so random.
@Rmano In German I can confidently tell you why I put each and every comma where I put it (but in German the rules are rather strict and clear, there are only few commas which can be set but don't have to)
 
@Skillmon -- I hope so too, for her sake and that of my nephews and their offspring. Whatever happened to the concept that one should consider the seventh generation with regard to how one's actions are affecting the earth?
 
well, grammarly is supposedly to be a native speaking AI :-P
Jokes apart, I tried sometime to learn but I think that in English is quite complex. But we have a couple of Linguists here, maybe they can help you.
 
@Skillmon You could try reading the Confessions of a comma queen. At the very least, you may find it entertaining.
 
@barbarabeeton answered to the wrong message?
 
7:40 PM
@StefanKottwitz No, no German at all, sorry... it + es + a bit of en + a smaller bit of fr
 
@Rmano google translate :-)
 
@Skillmon -- Yes, sorry. It was intended for @Rmano.
 
@Skillmon Or read this New Yorker story first to see if you will want to read the book or not.
 
@Rmano It cannot be translated and shown here, I fear. Too explicit.
 
@Skillmon -- Although I can do better with an example, some basic comma principles: don't separate a subject from its verb (if you put in a qualifying clause of phrase, wrap it in commas); put commas between elements in a list (unless it would cause confusion not to have a comma before the last item -- i.e., before "and" -- a comma is probably not necessary). Is this helpful?
 
7:47 PM
seems nice (can't listen now, will later).
Could be that the "Archeopterix" song I lost were from some german band, I used to listen to Kraftwerk and similar groups then...
 
@barbarabeeton yes, it is. Mostly in reassuring me, but helpful nonetheless! Thank you :)
@barbarabeeton The example is a 10 pages long paper :)
 
@Skillmon And don't put a comma after the subordinating conjunction 'that'.
 
@AlanMunn That, I'd never do :)
 
@Skillmon I think that that 'that' isn't that one. :)
 
@AlanMunn Ooh.
@AlanMunn I think that, I'd never do?
 
7:56 PM
@Skillmon That 'that' isn't that either. :)
 
@AlanMunn because if you do,@barbarabeeton will gratuitously change it to a semi colon?
lockdown again in the UK for a month ...
 
@DavidCarlisle No, it's just wrong in English, and obligatory in German, so for German speakers writing in English it's a very common mistake.
 
@AlanMunn I'm clearly no linguist.
 
@Skillmon The suborninating conjunction in that is simply unpronounced. You could have said "I think that that, I'd never do."
@Skillmon So the first 'that' is the suborndinating conjunction, and the second 'that' is the demonstrative pronoun that you have moved to the beginning of the clause.
 
@AlanMunn still confused :) Which is the that I can't put a comma behind?
 
8:00 PM
@Skillmon -- Well, in editing TUGboat, i find that adding and eliminating commas is probably the most frequent modification. (Or in the case of @DavidCarlisle, changing commas to semicolons when the items he lists are complex, themselves containing commas, or avoiding run-on sentences.)
 
@Skillmon In a sentence like "I think that Skillmon is confused" you can never write "I think that, Skillmon is confused".
@Skillmon Your other 'that's were all demonstrative pronouns, not subordinating conjunctions.
 
@AlanMunn but isn't this the "that" I used in "I think that, I'd never do" in which you said it isn't that that?
 
@AlanMunn How about that "I that think that that Alan is that confused"? No comma, that's that right?
 
@Skillmon No, that's the demonstrative pronoun. It gets a comma because it's the displaced object of the verb 'do'. There is no (pronounced) conjunction there, but if there were it would be before the demonstrative 'that' yielding "I think that that, I'd never do".
 
@StefanKottwitz I think that that that is confusing.
 
8:03 PM
@StefanKottwitz Yes, no comma there, since one 'that' is a conjunction and the other that is a determiner/article, so no commas after either of them.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen If that that is that confusing, than that that is that way too - that.
 
@StefanKottwitz And the third one is a demonstrative adverb!
 
German is so easy.
@AlanMunn Say that third one.
 
@AlanMunn But that that is the same that you used in "I think that, Skillmon is confused". I should've written "I think that, I'd never do that". Now the correct wrong comma?
@StefanKottwitz YES
 
@StefanKottwitz Hm, now I start thinking that that that that you're discussing is unclear to me.
 
8:05 PM
@Skillmon The second sentence you give here must not have the comma, since the first 'that' is a conjunction.
@Skillmon So there's a minimal contrast between "I think that I'd never do that" (no comma) and "I think that, I'd never do" (yes, comma).
 
@AlanMunn give us that howthatto for that that :-)
 
@AlanMunn good. That was what I meant with "I think that I'd never do" (just omitting the last "that" as I thought it was clear from context, misjudgement).
 
@Skillmon I'm glad we've cleared that up. (Or: I'm glad we've cleared 'that' up.)
 
@AlanMunn in German there shouldn't be a comma after it as well, but there has to be a comma before it.
 
@Skillmon Sorry, totally miswrote there. Yes, that's the error that German speakers make in English. There should never be a comma before the subordinating conjunction in English.
 
8:09 PM
@AlanMunn I think, that is indeed one of the most often done errors, but my sister is doing that one right.
 
@Skillmon :)
 
@AlanMunn only made that mistake once on the 8th page.
 
@Skillmon that 8th page :-)
 
9:05 PM
I just lost all the annotations I've made on my sisters work. It's 22 o'clock and I can reread it entirely. I hope I'll spot all those little things I did the first time, even though I'm tired now :(
 
9:15 PM
@Skillmon do you need a proofreader? I can do
 
@StefanKottwitz nah, I'm fine, I'll just be a bit tired tomorrow :)
@StefanKottwitz thanks, though!
 
@Skillmon I can do a second read
 
@StefanKottwitz I'll ask my sister whether that's fine.
 
@Skillmon is she likes to have a neutral reader without knowledge, I can do :-)
 
@StefanKottwitz well, I don't have a clue about English literature myself. I'm just reading for consistency and mock about every comma or word I don't like :)
 
9:19 PM
@Skillmon ooh
 
@Skillmon oh, English? I can proofread German and content understanding but we can poke @AlanMunn
I know Alan is that interested in fixing
 
@StefanKottwitz poor Alan. That would be great, but I don't want to "force" him to anything :)
 
@Skillmon The force it is not, the challenge it is.
 
9:43 PM
@StefanKottwitz @DavidCarlisle and I are happy to solve all your linguistic problems.
 
@AlanMunn Thanks! I got a translated documentation of 200 pages in Albanian for our service center, and I'll send it to you! Glad that it will be perfect.
 
@StefanKottwitz Well I would defer to @DavidCarlisle 's superior Albanian skills for that of course.
 
@AlanMunn Për fat të mirë flas rrjedhshëm shqip
 
@AlanMunn ah that David for that skill, that's why
 
@DavidCarlisle Po sigurisht. E dija.
 
9:50 PM
@AlanMunn Regarding English version, I fear with @DavidCarlisle it's UKish and requires translation.
 
@StefanKottwitz nah English comes from England, it's @barbarabeeton who struggles
 
@DavidCarlisle with capitalization? >:-)
 
@Skillmon -- I have considerable editing experience in English, and it's still daylight here. What's the topic?
 
@barbarabeeton some analysis of identities and the novel "Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit"
 
@Skillmon -- Well, a bit different from my usual subject matter, and I can't handle Word files, but if you send a pdf file (bnb at tug.org) I'll be happy to comment.
 
10:01 PM
@DavidCarlisle getting tagging practice?
 
@UlrikeFischer just removing stuff ;-)
 
Hi guys! I teach to 4 years old children. How can I make a interactive and colorful math presentation in Beamer?
 
@HACHEDOSO Math for 4 years old kids? :-o that's great, perhaps interactively, yes, beamer perhaps not :-D
@HACHEDOSO My kids use math papers in school and math software, and math software with challenging question, no idea what they use but they are good, but it's just kids and me
 
yo'
@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz I can be blamed of many things. What's it this time? :-)
 
@HACHEDOSO Like on TeX.SE, gamification may be a thing. My daughter took the challenge and solved 100% of math problems in their books, the teacher saif nobody did that before
Just thinking, interaction may be better than presenting.
 
10:22 PM
@yo' you were being blamed for updating to 2020 (so a host of "old" minor compatibility issues getting reported in a rush now:-)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle anything specific? It might still be worth adding into our blog post
 
@barbarabeeton you got mail.
 
@yo' initial example was the plain tex version of graphicx stopped working in plain tex if you use tex rather than etex or pdftex got reported by arxiv maintainers at my github, thought it a weird edge case but then same thing got reported here on same day. I gave in and added a work-around to the graphics-pln wrapper so it works again now.
 
@DavidCarlisle Fixed on CTAN?
 
@yo' no evidence that overleaf was involved except in that case it could have come up any time since February so it seemed best to blame you.
@JosephWright yep (I looked at the code and i had a workaround for \detokenize that I had added last year so hard to argue that I shouldn't do exactly the same for \protected I just disable it while loading the package, and set it back to undefined after the package loaded so it doesn't affect the rest of the document
@JosephWright Ina posted to ctan-ann a few minutes ago:-)
 
yo'
10:33 PM
@DavidCarlisle oh ok
 
@JosephWright you saw CTAN today?
@JosephWright anything to fix?
 
@StefanKottwitz oh they haven't again have they? I suppose I should look, all black and orange?
 
@DavidCarlisle vegetable lion
 
@StefanKottwitz Yes .. I guess someone enjoys it
@StefanKottwitz Not for me today
 
@JosephWright since years we are trying finding that one
 
10:36 PM
@JosephWright it doesn't behave bad for me.
 
@Skillmon it works and matches my helloweenmath search perfectly!
QED!
 
@StefanKottwitz if you set the theme to dark manually, CTAN stops changing on Halloween.
 
@StefanKottwitz :)
@Skillmon True
 
@Skillmon And if I give my girlfriend toys, she doesn't bother me on Christmas.
I hope she does though. With all the toys.
YAY! LEGO!
 
10:58 PM
@Skillmon -- Yes. I hope you've got the ack.
 

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