12:04 AM
Oh mz goodness! @PauloCereda

5 hours later…
4:45 AM
@DavidCarlisle I thought there were specialists working on Farsi and Arabic TeX.

3 hours later…
7:44 AM
@FaheemMitha don't you think I'm special?

@yo' --- a quick question --- if I want to interact with an overleaf project via git, it's better to go through GitHub or using the direct raw git access? The second one seems easier, but it's marked as experimental in the documentation...

8:23 AM
@yo' Wow
@DavidCarlisle ooh

8:42 AM
@DavidCarlisle Specialist, not special. And yes, of course I think you're special.

9:13 AM
@Rmano the raw access works well by now, so if you consider it easier, I'd say go for it...

@yo' I just need it because at my old age I have to use my editor to edit the thing... I'll just pull and push. Otherwise I'll fill the document with spurious i and a everywhere...

@Rmano ooh vim?

@PauloCereda Yes (/duck --- I know it's not the mainstream option here) ;-)

@Rmano <3

9:32 AM
@UlrikeFischer how good are you at Farsi?

@DavidCarlisle as good as you I guess.

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@UlrikeFischer brilliant then, the packages are in safe hands.

@DavidCarlisle yay

@DavidCarlisle I have a PhD student from Iran, but she started learning LaTeX (guess why...) just this week.

9:50 AM
@Rmano does she want to maintain bidi and xepersian packages?:-)

@DavidCarlisle ooh that's mean

@PauloCereda well unlike the currently active maintainers she has a chance of being able to read the current documentation.

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle :)

@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright ah I see l3build ctan still doesn't work, at least unlike ho-tex we don't have to reverse engineer a build script. makectanzip bash script seems to work...

9:55 AM
@DavidCarlisle — my announce text was \rmdefault of course :-)
@DavidCarlisle For my next release I’ll try doubling backslashes and see what comes out of CTAN, but I think the problem is pre them

@WillRobertson as far as I can see \\  should work it's tempting to auto-double backslashes but then you wouldn't be able to use \n in strings to mean newline. Perhaps should take strings supplied in lua files as-is but double backslashes if read from text files or the> prompt. .... (by the way is there a unicode-math update planned for the up shape change?)
why on earth does the bidi build script start off chmod -x *.pdf *.jpg *.ltx bidi.dtx I wonder....

ooh more Will

0

The next code with lualatex-dev gives warnings LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape TU/TeXGyrePagellaMath(1)/m/up' undefined but not with lualatex % !TEX TS-program = lualatex-dev \documentclass{article} \usepackage{unicode-math} \setromanfont[Ligatures=TeX]{TeX Gyre Pagella} \setmathfont{TeX Gyr...

@JosephWright what's the best l3build idiom to do --shell-escape
xelatex -shell-escape bidi.dtx
xelatex -shell-escape bidi.dtx
xelatex -shell-escape bidi.dtx
xelatex -shell-escape bidi-doc.ltx
xelatex -shell-escape bidi-doc.ltx
xelatex -shell-escape bidi-doc.ltx

@DavidCarlisle Hmmm... let's see if she got caught by LaTeX and after she finishes the Ph.D. she's interested. No way that I will let her do that now... ;-P

10:12 AM
@Rmano if @PauloCereda can write arara and delay finishing his thesis for a few years ever, surely that is a good precedent to follow?

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle I have to copy the "oh no" from @PauloCereda...

@Rmano ooh

10:31 AM
5

10:50 AM
Just ran into an old TeX bug. I feel like singing that Yuletide carol: "should auld acquaintance be forgot..."
2

@FaheemMitha tex has no bugs, only interesting design features

@FaheemMitha If you really found a bug, go report it to DEK! (But I doubt it)

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz No, not that kind of bug. And not in TeX per se. I was using the term TeX bug loosely.
It's just one of those "interesting" TeX "design features".
Where if you use A with C, it breaks. The solution is not to use A with C.
When I mean old, I mean I've met it before. Twice, apparently.

11:23 AM
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Is that a hoax? And where does it come from please?

@yo' I don't know. I didn't fact check it.
@yo' found it on 9gag (today I'm not that motivated)

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ah ok. so probably not really reliable...

@yo' most likely not.

11:31 AM
@DavidCarlisle There's a variable for the options ...
@DavidCarlisle So we are ready for 2020-02-02? :)

@JosephWright ooh

12:04 PM
@DavidCarlisle All these fontspec updates are to avoid deprecation errors in Unicode-math so I can make the changes for the “up” update :)
Now I have another problem in Travis, omg

@WillRobertson oh no

@WillRobertson Try removing ifxetex and ifluatex from the TeXLive install command. Those packages don't exist anymore

@PhelypeOleinik Gosh, I had forgotten that. Thanks! Let’s see...

@FaheemMitha otherwise known as "user error" :-)

@WillRobertson Oh, and add iftex, if it's not there
@WillRobertson But that doesn't seem to be the (big) problem...

12:14 PM
@JosephWright yes I suppose so (actually I may see if it really needs shell-escape one would hope that whatever it is doing could be done by l3build external to the xetex run, but the file is a bit obscure..

@PhelypeOleinik You’re right, no luck. I’ve just removed the cache, let’s see if that helps for some reason

@JosephWright yes apart from the banner in -dev release I think

12:31 PM
@WillRobertson not auto-installing texlive-scripts.x86_64-linux due to -no-auto-install (new on server) we had to add an additional script install the other day as tl re-organised, see latex2e version of texlive.sh:
commit b5dbc673dd7d5b6c8a9dc083eb6e05ca28270929
Author: Joseph Wright <joseph.wright@morningstar2.co.uk>
Date:   Thu Jan 9 14:13:53 2020 +0000

Install texlive-scripts for mftextfm

12:41 PM
@DavidCarlisle I owe you a very large and very nice beer David, thank you!! It would have taken me much longer to debug that... (not on my computer tonight, I’m trying to edit TeX code on an iPad like Chris which is “interesting”)

@WillRobertson ooh beer

@WillRobertson actually you could offer wine rather than beer, too many Italians and not enough Australians around here, can't get any decent wine....

@DavidCarlisle That would be my pleasure
Okay, that’s enough for me tonight. Ciao all

12:58 PM
@WillRobertson 'night!

@UlrikeFischer no rush but could you try l3build ctan in bidi on windows now, it works here at least
@WillRobertson good night

1:12 PM
@WillRobertson good night!

@DavidCarlisle Right, yes

1:29 PM
running test suite with max_error_line changed don't think it will make much difference as we dont have many errors, changing max_print_line would make more changes @JosephWright

@DavidCarlisle Yes defo

@PauloCereda important news

@DavidCarlisle :)

2:08 PM
@DavidCarlisle I will do it, when I'm at home again.
@DavidCarlisle you like australian wine?

@UlrikeFischer Annoying @egreg and @CarLaTeX makes it taste much better

@DavidCarlisle german or austrian wine would work too ;-)

@UlrikeFischer that's true

2:41 PM
@UlrikeFischer Germans and Austrians claim to produce wine.

@egreg at least we can produce beer.

@egreg well, I can counter that with saying that Italians claim to produce white wine (not discussing red here really... I'm not enough of a local patriot to say that red wine from central Europe is good)

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Not Austrians, of course. ;-)

@egreg why?

@yo' at least our cachaça is good. :)

2:46 PM
@yo' It's difficult to find good Austrian beer. There are some small breweries that are good, of course.

@PauloCereda the local one yes!

@yo' <3 miss you around, pal. :)

@egreg I have always enjoyed the radlers (and I don't remember the names as I don't think I ever had a bad one). But sure that's a kind of beer you drink in hot summers or in the mountains. (I wouldn't have a lager on a hike, but a radler is fine.)
@PauloCereda <3
Any chance you make it to Rochester?

@yo' I need to issue a visa, but there's a chance. :)

@PauloCereda yeah I know.

2:53 PM
@yo' -- I hope you don't include Egri bikaver. With gulyas es nockerli, nothing is better. (Or at least it used to be.)

@DavidCarlisle Except there is no indication that one should not use A with C.
Plus, the error messages are incomprehensible. But I think that's being covered adequately already.

@barbarabeeton well, Hungary has a desert-y weather (unlike other countries in the region), so yes, it knows to have some deep wines :)
and sorry, but with any goulash you drink beer.

@yo' -- Well, Imre, who taught me to make both gulyas and spaetzle (and also how to use hashi properly) recommended Egri. Since the only beer I like is weissbier, I think the wine is preferable.

@barbarabeeton oh yeah, then of course. Goulash goes with lager only (Urquell being prefered of course)

I'm a proud German father, just this moment my four year old daughter approached me and asked how to spell Autobahn.

3:12 PM

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz -- Good for her! But don't even think of teaching her to drive for a long, long time. (Taking apart engines and putting them back together is okay though, even if it's a lot harder than it used to be when everything was mechanical.)

@barbarabeeton Most likely I won't ever teach her to drive, in Germany we aren't allowed, there are driving teachers with special licenses who teach learners.

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz -- And that's undoubtedly a good idea.

@barbarabeeton but expensive. My license overall was at least as expensive as my first car.

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz -- I hope your first car wasn't too expensive! (I once vowed that I'd never buy a car that cost more than our house. That's becoming more and more difficult, if we want a new car.)

3:21 PM
@egreg we do produce good wine! In Torino they wanted to give us some with the menu - we had to ask for a local wine instead ;-)

@barbarabeeton in Germany you pay around 1500€ for your license, this includes insurances, driving lessons and both the theoretical and practical examination.

@barbarabeeton @Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz cars are very expensive in Brazil, I think about 65% of the total is taxes.

@barbarabeeton iirc, I was pretty "cheap" with around 1300€.

@yo' there are very good red german and austrian (and swiss) wine - and with the clima getting warmer there will be more. And I know very good italian white wine.

@UlrikeFischer I have to confess that after spending a lot of time in France, I have troubles finding German, Austrian or Czech red wines I would enjoy. OTOH, I like my white wines usually "fresh" (rather than "heavy"), as long as they are tasty, so I very enjoy white wines from these regions (and usually even over the Italian ones, e.g. for Pinot Gris).
and yes, with less percipation and more sunshine, I might reconsider CE red wines at some moment...

3:27 PM
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz -- I wasn't thinking about the cost of insurance. I wasn't able to get a license until I was over 20; my mother didn't have a car, and insuring a teenager was prohibitively expensive, especially if the license wouldn't even have been used. (But I do think it's a useful skill, like swimming. Everyone who's physically able should know the basics.)
@yo' -- What do you think of Gewurztraminer?

@yo' I have no special preferences for heavy or light or fresh or spicy or sweet or grapes or similar. It depends on the occasion, the weather, the meal etc which wine I prefer.

3:42 PM
You should try some white wine from Lanzarote (El Grifo Malvasía seco for example). The grapes grows in volcanic hearth and they are really different (you can like it or not, but...).

Jerez is good.

@barbarabeeton very popular here, not my favourite though really

@barbarabeeton for me a good Gewurtz is the king of white wines... But there are a lot of bad ones around.
@PauloCereda well, yes, but that's really an aperitivo thing... I'll never use a Jerez for a lunch or dinner.

@Rmano oh :)

Can anyone think of a reason why AUCTeX thinks that a TeX file has been successfully formatted as 0 pages, when it's actually 1?

3:58 PM
@DavidCarlisle @UlrikeFischer hyperref + latex + dvips + ps2pdf: tex.stackexchange.com/q/526173/3929

4:19 PM
@DavidCarlisle I can't typeset the documentaton of bidi: ! Package fontspec Error: The font "Minion Pro" cannot be found.

@UlrikeFischer thanks

@UlrikeFischer Yes, not really a free font, but it comes with Adobe Reader, so many people have it installed (whether it violates the licence I'm not sure.)

4:51 PM
@UlrikeFischer ah yes, you only need the free version (but I should probably make it use something else)

@DavidCarlisle well with miktex it compiles (it adds the adobe resources to the fontconfig) and I probably could tell texlive to find them too, but I'm not sure if one should do it.
@DavidCarlisle and somewhere in the miktex compilation I saw a "command mv unknown"

@UlrikeFischer Oh I bet that's whatever is in the shell escape clauses (it's not in the l3build) I'll look this evening, thanks.

@DavidCarlisle bidi.dtx:\immediate\write18{mv README.txt README}

@UlrikeFischer \immediate\write18{mv README.txt README} hmm the other write18 is just running makeindex, I'll see if I can take it all out and let l3build do it
@UlrikeFischer yes was writing the same... ctan of course allows it with extension anyway so it can simply not be renamed at all

@DavidCarlisle ctan would probably prefer a .md or not?

4:59 PM
@DavidCarlisle Oh FFS
@UlrikeFischer They are happy with the extension

@JosephWright o.O

@UlrikeFischer docstrip generation
\generate{\file{README.txt}{\from{\jobname.dtx}{readme}}}

@DavidCarlisle yes just found it in the doc-folder, but it wasn't included in the ctan folder.

@UlrikeFischer yes one thing I was planning to do is compare against the zip made by makectanzip and check that everything gets put in the right place

5:05 PM
@DavidCarlisle the bidi-doc.log says There were multiply-defined labels.

@UlrikeFischer yes I noticed that at some point not to mention about half a million over and under full boxes

@DavidCarlisle yes I saw them scrolling over the terminal too.

@JosephWright countdown to doom:(

5:23 PM
@UlrikeFischer I see we need to do xepersian as well as bidi
@UlrikeFischer oh no the user is reporting str_uppercase:f not defined so they have and old expl3 it seems

@DavidCarlisle I don't drink wine, you annoy me only with pineapple pizza :)

@CarLaTeX Nutella pizza is good.

5:39 PM

@CarLaTeX oh no
@CarLaTeX you are mean
@DavidCarlisle ^^

@PauloCereda Yes, I am mean

@CarLaTeX o.O

5:55 PM
@TorbjørnT. 'ello! It's been a while. :)

@PauloCereda Hello there. I still pop by every now and then, though a bit less than I used to.

@TorbjørnT. They bring up boring subjects like TeX. :)

@PauloCereda Shocking, considering the name of the chat room.

@TorbjørnT. exactly!

6:11 PM
top-level make world done.
+ echo 0

./Build: 447 executables in /home/phelype/develop/TL2020/inst/bin.
done (exit status 0) Qua Jan 29 14:05:33 -03 2020

7:05 PM
@PhelypeOleinik you sound and look quite satisfied ;-)

@UlrikeFischer I am, actually, it was an interesting experience :-)
@UlrikeFischer Makes you have an idea how complex TeX is
Though I should have ended that e-mail with “I'd like have your \input on this matter”

@PhelypeOleinik \input{on this matter}

@UlrikeFischer See, I can't even tell what my own code does ;-)

8:11 PM
@UlrikeFischer bidi no longer uses shell escape or Minion
@UlrikeFischer jinputFon this matterP

8:39 PM
@DavidCarlisle seems to compile. I see a few Missing character: in bidi.log, but imho they were there already before.

9:06 PM
@JosephWright That's very unfortunate.
I guess that's what it looks like to see lemmings marching off the cliff?

@UlrikeFischer tidied up the duplicated labels etc, I want to compare the contents of the zip files then perhaps push it to ctan

9:26 PM
@DavidCarlisle looks quite good.

9:48 PM
5

10:04 PM
@UlrikeFischer wow!

10:22 PM
Anyone familiar with skeyval (@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz?)

10:36 PM
@JosephWright no never used it (or ever heard of it before). But this here already gives me the creeps:
% The following packages need access to the original \@classoptionslist:
\skvnewdef*\skv@optionprocessorpackages{%
xkeyval,kvoptions,catoptions,biblatex,pgfopts,ltxkeys%
}

@UlrikeFischer Oh, I wouldn't use it, it's from the author of catoptions` ...

@JosephWright yes I know.