TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Paulo Cereda

00:50

Happy Easter!

4

Joseph Wright

06:48

@UlrikeFischer Sure

@UlrikeFischer Yes, exactly

Paulo Cereda

09:11

CHOCOLATE

Ulrike Fischer

09:51

@JosephWright \driver_pdf_version_minor: is expandable but \driver_pdf_version_major: isn't. \PackageInfo{test}{pdf-Version: \driver_pdf_version_major:.\driver_pdf_version_minor:} gives Package test Info: pdf-Version: \driver_pdf_version_major: .5 That's imho a bit odd.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Ooops, a typo

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright better now ;-). (and I should add git pull to my pop-up).

Khaled Hosny

11:12

Apparently I’m incapable of writing fast Lua code, I wonder if I should just suck it and write everything in C.

Paulo Cereda

@KhaledHosny oh is your code that awful? I am sure it's quite fast.

Khaled Hosny

BTW, luahbtex is back again and now called harftex github.com/khaledhosny/harftex

3

@PauloCereda Processing the same file is 2.5 times slower than both luaotfload and xetex, so neither HarfBuzz nor Lua is slow, which leaves only my code.

Paulo Cereda

@KhaledHosny oh

David Carlisle

@KhaledHosny ooh good to know:-)

@KhaledHosny is it slower actually typesetting, or in font loading?

Khaled Hosny

@DavidCarlisle The typesetting. There is the profiler in lualibs (called debugger, as camouflage I think), and the majority of time is spent in my Lua code.

Funnily, calling HarfBuzz takes only a small fraction of the time.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

13:06

@marmot In mathematics, with very few exceptions (I can't think of any at the moment, though I think I've seen some), authors are listed alphabetically without regard to seniority or who did the most work.

marmot

13:24

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Does that mean in Italy they have a strange alphabet in which C comes after F? ;-)

yo'

14:20

@marmot In Italy, everything is possible.

Sri Lanka, we love you!

5

egreg

15:00

@marmot Ubi maior…

marmot

@egreg Wer ko der ko?

thymaro

15:25

@DavidCarlisle congrats to 500k, @UlrikeFischer congrats to 200k @JouleV congrats to 14541 :D

happy easter to everyone

David Carlisle

@thymaro :-)

Ulrike Fischer

15:41

@JosephWright I think the definition of `\driver_pdf_link_begin_goto:nnw` is wrong. \documentclass[a4paper]{article}
\usepackage{expl3}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\driver_pdf_compresslevel:n {0}
\driver_pdf_objects_disable:
\ExplSyntaxOff
\begin{document}
\ExplSyntaxOn
xx
\driver_pdf_link_begin_goto:nnw{}{Dest} xxx\driver_pdf_link_end:
\pdfstartlink goto~name {Dest} xxx \pdfendlink
\ExplSyntaxOff
\end{document}

this gives an action of /A << /S /GoTo /D (/Subtype/LinkDest) >> instead of /A << /S /GoTo /D (Dest) >>

@DavidCarlisle enjoyed your palindrome?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer shame about the ducks:-) (thanks for the accept though!)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle sorry ;-). but they are round plump ducks ;-)

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer just right for easter sunday

Alan Munn

@thymaro I commented on your comment to my meta answer, thinking you were the OP. I've deleted the comment now (since you're not the OP), but in case you saw it and were confused, that's what happened.

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright and why do the driver commands end with w? \driver_pdf_link_begin_goto:nnw

Joseph Wright

16:02

@UlrikeFischer Could well be: I've not tested these ones (also, what subtype is right ...)

@UlrikeFischer They have to be matched because for some drivers (dvips currently) they have to collect a box. So we have the same as \hbox_set:Nw - the command does or may collect an argument in a w sense, not simply require a matching ...end:

@UlrikeFischer It's largely a reminder that for dvips we are actually collecting something, not just relying on the back-end to draw the box correctly

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright ah, ok, it looked a bit weird, but I see now the analogy to the hbox commands.

@JosephWright imho the /Subtype/Link should go out of the internal command.

\cs_new_protected:Npn \driver_pdf_link_begin_user:nnw #1#2
  { \__driver_pdf_link_begin:nnnw {#1} { user } {/Subtype /Link ~ #2} }

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer But they are all links ... so don't they all need /Subtype /Link?

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright yes, but the goto name type adds it automatically. Try \pdfstartlink goto name {Dest} xxx \pdfendlink:

/Type /Annot
/Subtype /Link
/Rect [149.266 671.357 167.033 677.638]
/A << /S /GoTo /D (Dest) >>

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Ah, right

Paulo Cereda

　＜⌒／ヽ-､_＿_
／＜_/＿＿＿＿／
￣￣￣￣￣￣￣

　　　∧_∧     I SHOULD TRY
　　 (　･ω･)    FIXING PDF LINKS
　 ＿|　⊃／(＿＿_
／　└-(＿＿＿_／

zzz
　＜⌒／ヽ-､_＿_
／＜_/＿＿＿＿／
￣￣￣￣￣￣￣

3

Ulrike Fischer

16:23

@PauloCereda \pdfstartlink goto name {Bed} xxx \pdfendlink: is then a more sensible destination name :-)

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh :)

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda ah, that's where the \zzz command by @DavidCarlisle's comes from!

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX ooh

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda haven't you got important psmith PR's to handle? :-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh that's true :)

Ulrike Fischer

16:37

@JosephWright regarding the naming. Imho \g__driver_pdf_resource_extgs_prop sounds good (one could use ...pdf_xobj_resources... for objects resources). Should we call tl that holds the objectnumber/name \g__driver_pdf_resource_extgs_tl? Or should there be somewhere a reference that it is an object?

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Do we need to provide access to this number/ref? I was imagining it's internal (so is the prop, but we have a special case due to the need to access from the 2e kernel). (If it's internal, we can use an int)

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright well the name is internal (two underscores), but can it be an int? I thought dvips/dvipdfmx would use names like "@extobj" in the specials.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer The name is like that ... but for our tracking the unique part is a number. In any case, if it's not public then the form can be engine-dependent

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright thinking about it, it is not a \g__ but a \c__ variable: the object number doesn't change, when we have reserved it. But if a tl or an int is more suited is your choice, you have to do the cross-driver stuff.

Joseph Wright

17:02

@UlrikeFischer I'm going to send a CTAN update today: probably we will need the driver code available as-is for further testing, plus sorting the resource issue is non-trivial

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright did you correct the goto code? I see no commit.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Yes, local at the present

@UlrikeFischer Try now

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright I think there is ~ missing after /Link

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer The next entry should be a key, so there should not need to be a ~ ...

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright ah, yes you are right, I had problem with the Dest, but this is not relevant here.

@JosephWright are the other drivers ok or should I check them?

Joseph Wright

17:09

@UlrikeFischer Totally unchecked

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright then I will take look. Should go fast.

Ulrike Fischer

17:26

@JosephWright with dvips the user link work but the goto gives a postscript error. with xelatex for both I can't find no annotation in the pdf, only the "dummy" is there <</Ff 65537/FT/Btn/Subtype/Widget/Rect[130.062 651.336 133.051 654.325]>>. I have to make dinner now, but can look at it later.

Joseph Wright

18:30

@UlrikeFischer On it

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright the link problem with xelatex was only because I had no content (I always forget that xelatex needs something there.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer I think the goto one is bust ... workingon it

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright ok. Then I leave it to you - not necessary that we both do it (but this means that I will have to do my ironing, sigh).

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Fixed I hope

Ulrike Fischer

18:54

@JosephWright I get with dvips an undefined error:

! Undefined control sequence.
<argument> \__driver_pdf_link_begin_aux:n

should be \__driver_pdf_link_begin_aux:nw I guess.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Fixed

Ulrike Fischer

19:13

@JosephWright looks ok.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Good

@UlrikeFischer Building for CTAN

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright ooh

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda It's all developer stuff

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright :)

thymaro

19:30

@AlanMunn no problem. Didn't see it, I'm on vacation. What did you write, though?

Paulo Cereda

19:58

@DavidCarlisle polygon.com/2019/4/21/18510039/…

Alan Munn

@thymaro Just that my comments weren't aimed at the OP (which I thought you were.)

Kurt

21:39

Please have a look to my answer for an moderncv question and the printing of an image. The upvoted answer (not mine) is wrong, because moderncv needs to add the image inside the header of the cv, and not via \includegraphics in the cv code. My answer reflects that but was never upvoted. Is it worth to get an upvote?

0

A: How to add a photo in my resume

It seems (you gave us no compilable code to test!) you are using a style of moderncv that does not include an image to the cv. To see all posibilities moderncv offers, please see my answer to this question. Style banking does not include an image. If you do not want to use one of the styles in...

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle today I encountered a jpeg/JFIF file which couldn't be included by graphics without additionally loading the pict2e package. Who is to blame?

David Carlisle

@Kurt to be honest that looks more of a comment than an answer, since it just references previous answers

@Skillmon blame who you like, so long as you don't blame me.

@Skillmon can't happen actually:-) (which doesn't mean that it didn't happen)

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle I can assure you, it happened. \documentclass{article}\usepackage{graphics}\begin{document}\includegraphics{foo}\end{document} failed with no BoundingBox error, additionally using pict2e worked.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon never believe the OP:-)

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle I tried myself, so I shouldn't believe myself?

David Carlisle

21:44

@marmot just voted your fraction answer, for not using tikz:-)

@Skillmon pdflatex or latex/dvips ?

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle pdf/lua/xelatex.

@DavidCarlisle didn't try dvips

@DavidCarlisle ok, now I'm confused. the minimal example above doesn't throw the error. But the actual document does (no BoundingBox...). Will investigate further.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon there was an issue a year or so ago where jpg had inconsistent exif metadata which meant that different parts of the toolchain took different size information and things blew up...

@Skillmon check which .def file is being loaded in each case

marmot

@DavidCarlisle Yes, now you can compare the outcomes of TikZ codes to non-TikZ ones. ;-)

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle I tried compiling on my local TL2018 frozen, which threw the error. Currently I try on Overleaf with TL2017.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon send me a zip if you want (no promises but I might look)

Ulrike Fischer

21:52

@Skillmon how is the real name of your graphic?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer don't tell me it has spaces:-)

Skillmon

@UlrikeFischer nothing special, no spaces, no non-ASCII characters.

@DavidCarlisle found the issue

@DavidCarlisle it is unbelievable how some classes come into existence.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon forcing dvips back end?

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer I've sent to CTAN

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle yep.

David Carlisle

21:55

@Skillmon I thought so:-)

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle Last touched on 1995-11-21.

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright I saw it on the team list.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer :)

David Carlisle

@Skillmon not so old then

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle having this very interesting comment:

Joseph Wright

21:56

@UlrikeFischer I'm looking forward to thoughts of the senior people on the atbegshi question (@DavidCarlisle ...)

Skillmon

%%% This is not a clean and optimal LaTeX2e class port yet. I am working
%%% on that but this class file has been used for a PhD thesis that did
%%% pass a preliminary inspection by the graduate office.
%%%
%%% I would appreciate any help/comments and improvements. The goal is
%%% to make this an official Rice thesis style for LaTeX2e that can
%%% exist in parallel with the old LaTeX thesis style.

@DavidCarlisle ^^^^

Joseph Wright

@Skillmon Definitely dvips then

Skillmon

@JosephWright yes, just found the \RequirePackage[dvips]{graphicx} line in the class.

Joseph Wright

@Skillmon Bit of a clue :)

Ulrike Fischer

@Skillmon but above you use article. Did you have a local, changed version?

David Carlisle

21:59

13 mins ago, by Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle didn't try dvips

@Skillmon so user error: you used everything except the one thing it works for:-)

@UlrikeFischer never believe the OP

Skillmon

@UlrikeFischer that was my bad. I had played a lot with it and thought I also tried with article.

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright I'm quite for a copy of atbegshi in the kernel. I need it too.

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle even worse: Support error, I'm not the user in this case.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I didn't believe him, that's why I asked for the real name ;-)

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Yeah, I'm just thinking if we need all of it

Skillmon

22:01

@UlrikeFischer @DavidCarlisle nobody believes me :(

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle wouldn't jpg fail with dvips too?

David Carlisle

@Skillmon doden't matter, main thing is IT'S NOT MY FAULT

6

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer I'll still need a L3 version for generic mode, or we say 'load atbegshi if you want generic PDF resource support'

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle of course not!

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer yes:-)

Joseph Wright

22:03

@UlrikeFischer Mainly down to 'will FMi got for it': @DavidCarlisle (or me) can make the original atbegshi a no-op for newer kernels

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I think we should do something, but as we were discussing at the start of the year, that kind of hook should be built in not package based.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes

@DavidCarlisle Exactly: if Frank goes for it, like @UlrikeFischer I think we just pick up (almost) all of the package in the format

David Carlisle

@JosephWright that and disentangling from the rest of Heiko's universe infwarerr, ltxcmds, ...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle We (I) can't do PDF resources without it

@DavidCarlisle That's easy, really

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes, but it means a few decisions about how much you exactly mimic current package behaviour

Skillmon

22:09

Good night, everybody! (sorry for posting this)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright then there are all the patches for (eg) memoir, can they be pushed upstream

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Do it in the format, don't have to mess around as we know we can access \shipout properly

@DavidCarlisle For me, it's only about the 'extra' functions for graphics: I want (need) \AtBeginShipout, \AtNextShipout, \AtFirstShipout (admittedly, latter is more-or-less \AtBeginDvi)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright ah OK must admit I didn't look exactly what the memoir block was doing. Adding the hooks to shipout seems basically a good plan

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I have a feeling we will end up integrating a lot of heiko's stuff, either into the kernel or into expl3 (on the latter, of course, we've already grabbed quite a bit, and the hyperref stuff really will hover up a massive amount)

@UlrikeFischer I wonder how long before someone (@AlexG?) finds some bugs :)

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright ;-). I will have to start to write test files. And there is loads of stuff in hyperref that in the end will have to move.

Joseph Wright

22:17

@UlrikeFischer Sure

@UlrikeFischer Going to \RequirePackage{expl3} in hyperref? (May as well do, really)

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright I need \AtBeginShipout and the \AtBeginShipoutBox.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer I think this is going to be what takes us to 'LaTeX2e*' (first asked about on team list several years ago)

@UlrikeFischer At, the box one: yes, also needed

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright well my custom driver has it. And if we change something in hyperref itself I wouldn't have any qualms to load it.

Kurt

@DavidCarlisle better now?

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer We just should: I'm seriously thinking about finishing l3image and saying 'lets just take over graphicx too'

marmot

22:23

@JosephWright Do you have my crystal ball??? tex.stackexchange.com/q/485957/121799

How did you know about the atbegshi question more than 20 minutes before it appeared?

Joseph Wright

@marmot :)

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright sure. Make a latex-expl and we try it out ;-).

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Going to need a new l3build feature: custom format building as a general thing

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright for a start running fmtutil-sys with a local config will work too.

David Carlisle

@Kurt yep:-)

Joseph Wright

22:31

@UlrikeFischer Just a question really of taking the format-building code and making it into a general target, though we will end up needing a decent number of files ...

Kurt

@DavidCarlisle Thanks!

Ulrike Fischer

22:54

@JosephWright are you thinking about the test suite? But if the file are in their own branch wouldn't it work out-of-the-box?

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