TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2019-03-03

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4:30 AM

@egreg Just to let you know, I switched now to your nice \diff macro. Mille grazie!

@manooooh Many thanks! (But others would deserve these points much more....)

2 hours later…

6:11 AM

@marmot yaaay, welcome to the diff club!

@marmot it fills me with hope to know that there are people like you who are willing to help without receiving anything in return, but this time I thought it necessary to show you my appreciation

6:36 AM

@PauloCereda Hi. This link is now down, so how can I download and install TeXprinter now?

1

Q: What preamble or packages does the tex.stachexchange uses?

I want to copy some good answers to my local tex editor in order to review sometimes future. There will be many errors since like ** ** means bold, space x 4 means writing codes, etc. And sometimes I want to write some answers in local tex editor, and after compile successfully then directly co...

This question reminded me of TeXprinter.

7:36 AM

@JouleV It's by @PauloCereda!

7:54 AM

@CarLaTeX Yes, of course!

2 hours later…

9:41 AM

@JouleV We are working on a new version because the SE network made some drastic changes since the last stable release of TeXPrinter (thus breaking it). I think we will be able to push a new release in a couple of days. I will keep you informed.

@PauloCereda That makes me wonder when I will receive a new mail ;)

@TeXnician oh my, that's a good idea.... :)

@PauloCereda I tend to agree :D

@TeXnician ooh

@PauloCereda Oh, I'm very glad to hear that! Hope to get it soon -- what an amazing tool!

10:12 AM

Am I presuming correctly that you wouldn’t be interested in this question (as it is), given the lack of a complete code, duplicates, etc.?

10:23 AM

@JosephWright mr. moderator duck, could we bring back the Answer the unanswered sessions? :)

@Wrzlprmft You're correct: that's a very bad question.

1 hour later…

11:37 AM

user image

5

11:59 AM

I was wondering if it make sense to default to two sided, for letters and articles. The standard LaTeX seems to be one sided. I'm not sure why - historical reasons? I'm also not clear what the pros and cons are.

Apparently if one does not specify, they're all odd. Which seems... odd.

I mean, why not even?

12:17 PM

@FaheemMitha I have only seen two-side documents in book, because they print two pages in a paper sheet.

In case of letters or articles, I think people often print only one page in each paper sheet.

And most letters have only one page...

@JouleV Sure, but what is the rationale for that?

@JouleV Not necesarily.

I was thinking of writing a question about that. I couldn't find one already. Do you think that would be reasonable?

@JouleV And I always print twosided.

This is XeTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-0.99998 (TeX Live 2017) (preloaded format=xelatex 2019.3.3) 3 MAR 2019 17:51
entering extended mode
restricted \write18 enabled.
%&-line parsing enabled.
**fonts.tex
(./fonts.tex
LaTeX2e <2017-04-15>
Babel <3.9r> and hyphenation patterns for 3 language(s) loaded.
(/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/article.cls
Document Class: article 2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class
(/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/size10.clo
File: size10.clo 2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX file (size option)

12:37 PM

@FaheemMitha I just want to say that oneside fits better to overall people.

@FaheemMitha If you like twoside, you can use twoside option. No one forbid you. But you can't change the overall tradition of the world ;-)

@PrabhjotSingh Yes?

@FaheemMitha I'm afraid it will be closed as primarily opinion-based.

@JosephWright I am trying to type in punjabi. This is a log file.

@PrabhjotSingh Yes: the error seems clear, the font is not found

sudo dnf install lohit-gurmukhi-fonts
[sudo] password for mc:
Last metadata expiration check: 0:27:06 ago on Sun 03 Mar 2019 05:44:44 PM IST.
Package lohit-gurmukhi-fonts-2.91.2-3.fc28.noarch is already installed, skipping.
Dependencies resolved.
Nothing to do.
Complete!

12:51 PM

@JouleV Well, I would be asking about pros vs cons. That's opinion based? Still seems like a reasonable question to me.

@JosephWright Do you think it would be closed as opinion based?

@FaheemMitha Probably: you could ask about the history

@JosephWright I was really looking for recommendations/best practices.

This one didn't get closed as opinion based.

6

Q: Page layout, a philosophical question

Disclaimer: this is a bit off-topic, but I'm thinking that TeX designers must have considered this at one point or another Why do all pages in a book have to have exactly the same text width? (and font size, for that matter) I understand that the Knuth-Plass strategy for making paragraphs is al...

tex-core book-design

I don't think my question is any more... subjective?

1:20 PM

@FaheemMitha Of course you can do anything you want, but I don't think it will be received as other questions (personally I will vote to close that, I'm sorry). Btw, switching from one-side to two-side is one of the simplest task in the world. You can have many more options with geometry. Why should we over-complicate a simple problem?

Using oneside or twoside in a specific document is clearly opinion-based, right?

@JouleV You would vote to close? Tch.

@JouleV There must be pros/cons.

I'm not even clear what all the different effects would be.

@FaheemMitha I do think you should ask about the history, which leads to the one-side, as our moderator said.

@JouleV That's one option. But I really want usage recommendations. Weighing pros/cons.

@FaheemMitha If you want a recommendation, I will say: use the default options. oneside for article and twoside for book.

@FaheemMitha How should one recommend things that are mostly stylistic, cultural, ideological, endemic, and opinion-based? :)

1:26 PM

@PauloCereda One-sided vs two-sided is all of those? Maybe we should base a religion on it.

A la Gullivers Travels. You know, the egg breaking controversy.

@FaheemMitha I like to use oneside. In Brazil, no one prints twoside. So yes, environment plays stuff everywhere. :)

@PauloCereda Hmm.

@FaheemMitha Well you've asked the question here, which, given that it's opinion based, is probably the best place. :) I use oneside for everything, since none of the documents I produce are likely to be bound into a book.

@AlanMunn So you also don't think it's suitable for the site?

@FaheemMitha You see it? Another recommendation is not to ask that question on the main site at all ;-)

Its opinion-basedity is too clear.

1:29 PM

@FaheemMitha Actually, there's a funny story: my thesis had 150+ pages, so I was forced to print twoside. If it was less than that, the requirement was oneside. Wacky!

The ABNT madness strikes again. :)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha @JouleV I think the practice varies a lot, but it is probably moving more towards two-sided printing in order to save paper. All the printers at my work are set to print two-sided by default, and you have to make a conscious effort to print one-sided. But also, many people prefer to read the pdf on a computer screen or tablet. In that case, shifting margins are annoying! So most time, I think the two side option with equal margins is good compromise,

@AlanMunn And suppose you were writing things that might be bound together?

@FaheemMitha No, not really. And that other question isn't really the same I think.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen that's a good plan indeed! :)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Ah, that's an important issue. Does one-sided implicitly assume that any actual printout will be on one side? Because, I always print documents two-sided.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

1:31 PM

@FaheemMitha I did typeset a book recently. I did it with twoside and equal margins. The publisher assured me that the printer would take care of even/odd margins, and they did.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I like this way.

@FaheemMitha Then I would do what the publisher wanted me to do. But the main reason for the twoside option is that real books, i.e., bound copies are asymmetric because the binding edge takes more paper than the outside edge.

Two equal margin is very good imho

@AlanMunn Hmm.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@AlanMunn Well, running heads are important too: They are commonly different on even and odd pages.

1:32 PM

It also affects where one places running heads, does it not? Though I'm slightly confused about that too.

The option in KOMA doesn't seem to be behaving the way one would expect.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha Normally, the running head takes the same horizontal space as the text block. Though it might be differently adjusted on even vs odd pages. Odd pages: Left adjusted head, page number on the right. Even pages: The other way round.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Let's say I'm always going to print (as on paper) my documents two-sided whenever possible. And let's suppose that enough of my letters/articles are multi-page, so that this isn't a theoretical question. Would it be reasonable to default to two sided?

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, I was meaning even/odd positioning.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, but that's a side effect in a way, again, based on the idea that two opposing pages when opened together shouldn't have the same header. But this is tradition too.

ooh ~~talking~~ running heads

From the series of bands no one remembers. :)

I don't think the positioning is a big deal, but having it on the right on odd pages and on the left on even pages does seem more intuitive.

1:36 PM

@FaheemMitha If you really want twoside as the default option, you should go to the LaTeX tree, find files article.cls and letter.cls and make some edits.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen But the compromise of twoside with equal margins makes sense if you like that kind header.

@JouleV I'm using KOMA. And what edits?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha Well, if it is bound, you want the page numbers toward the outside where they are easily seen.

@FaheemMitha Edit the source code of the class file.

But that won't work in other computer.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, that too. Stuff that I write is increasingly likely to be part of court documents.

@JouleV No, thank you.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

1:37 PM

@JouleV Much better is to write your own class file that just \LoadClasss the class you want to modify, then modifies what you want different.

@AlanMunn This isn't going to be published. But at least some of what I'm working on is likely to become part of submission to courts, as part of a group (or groups) of documents. And those things do tend to be bound together, in some sense.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Indeed, but it requires more work ;-)

@PauloCereda And you may find yourself with unequal margins. And you may find yourself on an odd page. And you may find yourself with unequal headers. And you may find yourself in a beautiful document. And you may ask yourself, "Well how did I get here?".

@AlanMunn oh no

@PauloCereda ooh

1:41 PM

And here is the KOMA take on it - file:///usr/share/doc/texlive-doc/latex/koma-script/scrguien.pdf#desc:typearea.o‌ption.twoside

@JouleV ooh

@AlanMunn I'm guessing this is a reference/riff to something I'm not familiar with.

I surrendered to the bacteria and left KOMA for memoir. :)

Hi @CarLaTeX!

Wait, wasn't Talking Heads a band?

@PauloCereda Bacteria? What bacteria?

1:42 PM

@FaheemMitha Yes. :)

@JouleV Hi!

@AlanMunn Ah

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha genius.com/Talking-heads-once-in-a-lifetime-lyrics perhaps? (@AlanMunn)

@FaheemMitha no worries, just a silly expression. :)

@AlanMunn Ah, yes. "Once in A Lifetime".

1:43 PM

@AlanMunn Once in a lifetime is playing inside my head now!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

I just googled the phrase "and you may find yourself".

@FaheemMitha Yes, that one! :)

Good song.

Ohh somehow the conversation about twoside has been converted to a conversation about Once in a lifetime :)))

That is why I love chat!

@HaraldHanche-Olsen So what do you think? See my earlier question.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

1:45 PM

@JouleV A very successful derailment by @AlanMunn

@HaraldHanche-Olsen @AlanMunn LOL :)))))

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha Um, things were moving so fast, I missed it. Gotta look back and search for it.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Shall I post a link?

13 mins ago, by Faheem Mitha

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Let's say I'm always going to print (as on paper) my documents two-sided whenever possible. And let's suppose that enough of my letters/articles are multi-page, so that this isn't a theoretical question. Would it be reasonable to default to two sided?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha Yes, probably.

@AlanMunn: By the way, James Veitch (the duck guy) is back with a TED talk: youtube.com/watch?v=_QdPW8JrYzQ

2

1:47 PM

Oh, and let's also suppose that some of my documents were going to be bound together with other documents.

I see that KOMA has helpfully renamed that option twoside. Possibly deliberately.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha Then it depends how much you know about those other documents. Do you wish yours to blend in? Or at least not stand out as dramatically different? Then you do what you need to adapt.

To avoid confusion? Dunno.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Well, they might get hole-punched or bound some other way. Relatively likely, really. Perhaps I should have been doing two-sided all along, but better late then never, I suppose.

I can't control what those other documents do, but I could also least try to make my stuff better/more suitable.

Are you folks all at work? I guess an academics job is never done.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha Then make sure you have generous margins. On both sides, so it works whether they print two-sided or one-sided. A4 or US Letter paper needs generous margins anyhow, or the text block just gets too wide for comfortable reading.

@AlanMunn, @barbarabeeton: economist.com/united-states/2019/02/23/…

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha We have the finalists for a national mathematics competition here this weekend. Other people are coaching them, but as the one nominally in charge I have to be here all day.

1:52 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I was going to plan on two-sided. And does two sided increase the margin size on the binding side? I guess I'll experiment.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Putnam, or something else?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha something else

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Ok.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Oh, sorry. Wrong country. Alas, we have all become so US-centric.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha Actually, the wider margin is usually on the outside (non-binding side). Just look at a random book.

user image

@FaheemMitha How many printers could do twoside printing in the early 80's?

1:54 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Oh?

@egreg No idea.

@FaheemMitha None, except in high range professional environments.

@egreg I see. Hence that default?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@FaheemMitha Yes, but when I did the experiment in my bookshelf, it was not so clear cut. I had to open several books before coming upon a clear example. The others were more equal.

@FaheemMitha Most likely

@egreg I see. Thank you for the explanation.

2 hours later…

3:42 PM

I see Bruno is busy ....

4:00 PM

@JosephWright you too ...l

4:15 PM

@UlrikeFischer Of course

@UlrikeFischer Planning a release tomorrow I think

4:40 PM

@FaheemMitha -- Not a recommendation on one- vs. two-sided, but a data point. AMS document classes default to two-sided, as they are intended for print, and in the copyediting phase running heads must be verified. But everything is printed for copymarking, and that is done one-sided (using the facilities of the PDF print routine) to reduce the possibility that a page might be missed. Pages are also centered horizontally, as that is a requirement of the RIP used to produce printer plates.

3 hours later…

7:15 PM

@AlanMunn Have you seen this? Alan is our marmot of the month ;-)

@marmot lol. Not a very flattering picture, though (for Alan).

1 hour later…

8:51 PM

@JouleV no one should ever do that

2

Harald Hanche-Olsen

7 hours ago, by Harald Hanche-Olsen

@JouleV Much better is to write your own class file that just \LoadClasss the class you want to modify, then modifies what you want different.

Aug 30 '18 at 17:47, by David Carlisle

@HaraldHanche-Olsen deja vu is normal here, don't worry:-)

2 hours later…

11:00 PM

@AlanMunn If you are saying that marmots tend not to get treated appropriately, I fully agree.

11:40 PM

@marmot You should start a Marmot Affirmative Action League.

@FaheemMitha Yes, that's a good idea. ;-)

11:54 PM

@FaheemMitha Society for the Prevention of Antagonism against Marmots. SPAM for short.

Their fundraising emails never get seen.

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Mar '193

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