@PauloCereda -- Something to goggle at. (I hope your browser is new enough so that it works.) twitter.com/ZonePhysics/status/1190328863571808257?s=09

@barbarabeeton Nice! The addition law for trigonometric functions at work!

@barbarabeeton ooh!

@JosephWright we could have more keys

:)

What is going on here? travis-ci.com/pgf-tikz/pgf/jobs/252395803

! LaTeX Error: File `ifxetex.sty' not found.

I'm suddenly getting this but my preamble hasn't changed.

I think they merged everything into a iftex package...

Did they really remove ifxetex.sty? That will break a lot of documents.

@HenriMenke ifxetex.sty still exists, but it is now distributed as part of iftex and no longer as a separate MikTeX/TeX live package.

Took me quite a while this morning to convince MikTeX to do the right thing

@moewe ooh

@PauloCereda Is that the point where I have to increase a counter?

@moewe :)

@HenriMenke no, there should be a stubs. Which tex system are you using? Sorry just saw that it is travis. You perhaps will have to install iftex.

@HenriMenke Add iftex to your script

@HenriMenke no just moved it on ctan from oberdiek to iftex

@DavidCarlisle that's ifluatex, ifxetex was Will's package (I think)

@JosephWright and probably remove ifxetex, ifluatex. Will travis error if non-exisiting packages are in the script or simply ignore them?

@UlrikeFischer (@HenriMenke) oh sorry correction: ifxetex,ifluatex,ifvtex,ifetex,ifpdftex,ifpdf all moved from wherever they were to iftex.

we need a ififtex to check whether iftex is present...

@PauloCereda you could use \IfFileExists{"iftex.sty"} except the quote handling changed so you probably need to guard that with \NeedsTeXFormat{LaTeX2e}[2019-10-01] except that the ISO format date handling was only introduced in 2015 so ....

@DavidCarlisle oh

@UlrikeFischer on a.b I don't think I want to make it add extensions, I'm thinking about adding \dotnosep to graphics, then all these work:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{graphicx}

\begingroup\lccode`\=`\.\lowercase{\endgroup\def\dotnosep{a}}
\begin{document}


1 \includegraphics{a.b.png}


1b \includegraphics{{a.b}.png}

2 \includegraphics{a\dotnosep b}

3 \includegraphics{foo bar.png}

4 \includegraphics{foo bar}

{
\graphicspath{{nospace/}}

5 \includegraphics{a.png}
}

{
\graphicspath{{space here/}}

6 \includegraphics{a.png}
}

\end{document}

As long as a.b.png works at all it is fine with m. Did you enable 1b again? What is the plan if someone comes along with an extension with a period in it?

@UlrikeFischer if the extension is something.gz it works out the box or they could use .eps\dotnosep bz if they really must

@UlrikeFischer in the unquote branch the core format \filename@parse reports the extension of aaa.eps.gz as gz but the graphics package, given an extension of gz, stashes it, reparses the base name and then puts gz back so ending with base of aaa and extension of eps.gz

@DavidCarlisle ah. so it is specific to .gz. If zzz\dotnosep blub works as extension it should be fine. What about the name? \dotnosep sounds a bit to generic. Perhaps something with \Gin...?

@UlrikeFischer ooh zzz

@UlrikeFischer ooh gin and tonic

@PauloCereda I hoped someone would suggest \GinTonic ;-)

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@UlrikeFischer well it would work with \input as well (although not many things in graphics actually parse the filename) but \input{aaa\dotnosep bbb} would work

@PauloCereda the graphics package also has the Grot prefix available, which I could use for you, if @UlrikeFischer gets the Gin.

@DavidCarlisle oh

@PauloCereda three oohs and an oh

@HenriMenke Change ifxetex to iftex in the .sh file

@DavidCarlisle oh

@PauloCereda three and two (mathematicians are good at counting)

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle \includegraphics{test\dotnosep pdf.pdf} works fine (after I remade the formats). But \includegraphics{test\dotnosep pdf} fails.

LaTeX Warning: File `test.pdf' not found on input line 237.
! Package pdftex.def Error: File `"""test".pdf' not found: using draft setting.

And the same with some.faulty.pdf and \includegraphics{some\dotnosep faulty}:

LaTeX Warning: File `some.faulty' not found on input line 237.

! LaTeX Error: Unknown graphics extension: .faulty.

@UlrikeFischer those multiple quotes look like you made with master/PL1 are you sure you made with PL2 (l3build install will make a latex-dev format from the unquote branch not a latex format) (but I will double check that I pushed all my changes)

@UlrikeFischer test.pdf.pdf should also work

@DavidCarlisle the log says LaTeX2e <2019-10-01> patch level 2. And I get the multiple quotes only for the special case that there are two pdf at the end: test.pdf.pdf.

@UlrikeFischer hmm OK let me check, thanks...

@DavidCarlisle yes, that is fine.

@DavidCarlisle I changed the \dotnosep command assuming that you have a typo, but is there a difference between this two variants:

\begingroup\lccode`\=`\.\lowercase{\endgroup\def\dotnosep{=}}
\begingroup\lccode`\a`\.\lowercase{\endgroup\def\dotnosep{a}}

@UlrikeFischer yes the first one is same as using a . it will give a catcode 12 . that acs as a separator

@UlrikeFischer oh for ... Ignore me for a bit there will be some checkins later:-) (but I have some non tex stuff to do first...) thanks for checking!

@DavidCarlisle I see documenting the Unicode data was worth it (tex.stackexchange.com/questions/514729/…)

@DavidCarlisle ;-). We will have to go to another hockey match in the afternoon and then to the theater.

@JosephWright more interesting than some other things I've been asked to read lately

@PauloCereda what's the problem with all this iftex lately? Did I miss out on something significant?

@Skillmon various ifXXX packages have been combined into iftex (ifpdf, ifxetex, ifluatex etc).

@UlrikeFischer yes, that I saw during the last TL-update (since the others were auto-removed), but why all those messages about it? Is the implementation somehow evil or what?

@Skillmon no but Henry got an error on travis as he installed there ifxetex (which no longer exists) but not iftex.

@Skillmon the implementation is brilliant and benign but if you set up a virtual machine on travis with a minimal texlive with only the tl packages that you needed and that was xetex then that now doesn't exist as a tl package and you need to install iftex (which includes ifxetex.sty)

@DavidCarlisle let me guess, you wrote the code?

@Skillmon anonymous member of latex team, we could blame @UlrikeFischer

@barbarabeeton exp(it) + exp(i(φ-t)) = 2 exp(iφ) cos(t-φ)

… the sum of two opposite circular motions is linear motion

@DavidCarlisle line 58 of iftex.sty, why not use \begingroup\global\expandafter\let\expandafter\IFTEX@protected\csname protected\endcsname\endgroup instead of the not so robust \ifx\protected\@undefined?

@Skillmon does it make any difference? Either way IFTEX@protected is the same as \protected or is \relax if that is undefined (unless someone has defined \@undefined but latex is completely broken in that case)

@Skillmon It' a pain ...

@DavidCarlisle Overall, I think iftex plan is a great success

Hello, Anyone know the pros and cons of having an aeroplane?

Like can you go anywhere you want as long as you have enough fuel and documents?

@CyanRed Lots of people, probably, but very few here ..

@JosephWright ducks don't need planes

@barbarabeeton exp(it) + exp(i(2φ-t)) = 2 exp(iφ) cos(t-φ)

… forgot a the 2 on the left hand side above …

@CyanRed you could ask Mathias Rust

@CyanRed @DavidCarlisle is a famous airplane designer :) tex.stackexchange.com/a/114847/134574

@MarcelKrüger I adapted in the master-XX branch the texlive.sh to load iftex instead of ifxetex/ifluatex this should probably be copied into the other branches too.

@JosephWright although I'm still more likely to use \ifx\directlua\undefined than load iftex and use \ifluatex :-) on the other hand I think perhaps \iftutex ... fontspec .. might help clean up some document preambles

@UlrikeFischer Do you think that this should be cherry-picked now or is it enough to merge it in after the release?

@JosephWright i'd like to fly an aeroplane

@MarcelKrüger just depends if you use \usepackage{ifxetex} in any tests, if you have a minimal tex installation the package will not be there unless you do a tlmgr install iftex (where before it needed tlmgr install ifxetex)

@MarcelKrüger but if you are using a cached texlive installation it will be there anyway ...

New feature on unquote branch:

! LaTeX Error: Unknown graphics extension: .png.

@DavidCarlisle no one uses that extension. :)

@PauloCereda phew, that's OK then.

@MarcelKrüger up to you, imho Travis will fail without it. I would like to make an ctan upload tomorrow but we should discuss the merge / tag order. (I'm out now for a while)

@MarcelKrüger Cherry-pick now: it has to propogate

@PauloCereda it's used way too much. When I was working for Overleaf, 50% of the support issues with timeouts were caused by many PNGs with high resolution.

@Skillmon oh!

My wife just said I should google "TikZ by kindern"

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer I see Frank is taking reivewing seriously :)

@DavidCarlisle Most probably because I don't quite have the right mindset to approach LateX documents. I think it's not quite like programming :)

SIUNITX THREE POINT OH

@FélixGagnon-Grenier It's almost but not quite programming, that's true (and TeX programming is not like other programming anyway)

@PauloCereda I wonder if it will be in TLC3

@JosephWright Of course it will. Frank will almost kill you to fix stuff. :)

@PauloCereda 2.7t on CTAN.

@Skillmon ooh a secret

@Skillmon Yes: v3.0.0-alpha.2 is available for testing

@FélixGagnon-Grenier but I didn't mean it as a programming question, I mean why as a user do you want nested includes (and have to answer tricky questions about what happens if you specify the inclusion of a section but not its containing chapter) (there are some lower level technical issues with implementing nested include, but there isn't really any requirement so it's never been a major issue that it isn't supported)

@DavidCarlisle In that case, because seeing as the file I was already including in the top level tex file was getting longer and longer, I would have liked to subdivide that file into other sections, and thought of include, but if input can be nested, it really is the thing I should do :)

@FélixGagnon-Grenier you can nest any number of inputs, the issues with \include are about how to store all the associated data to restore values after sections that are not included. The data structure would have to be a lot more complicated if you had nested includes as you would have multiple open includes at the same time

@DavidCarlisle and the issues with \includeonly...

@Skillmon that's what I mean, the data to support \includeonly.

@DavidCarlisle \includeonly{<somefileinanotherinclude>}

@DavidCarlisle oh, just realized that this message did cover the nested inclusion, I'm just too slow this evening.

@Skillmon yes you'd have to document that if you don't include a chapter, any nested includes in that chapter wouldn't be included (whatever you put in \includeony) that's just a documentation issue though, the real issue is that you would have multiple open includes (and tex only has 16 write streams)

@DavidCarlisle well, you could nest all the writes into the main aux like is done for toc and similar.

@JosephWright By "TeX programming" do you mean programming the actual engines, or writing TeX files?

@Skillmon well possibly but currently the whole thing works by having it in a separate file, which is how the values get saved even if you don't include on the next run, so you could, but it would mean re-writing it and making it a lot more complicated, which is exact;y what I said in the initial comment yesterday:-)

@DavidCarlisle it would be similar to \addtocontents, just \addtosubaux, does double the writes, yes, but shouldn't be that complicated.

@Skillmon as I say not impossible but more complicated as toc are re-written each time and but main thing is no real use case

@DavidCarlisle -- One problem I used to have with \includeis that some commands that I would have preferred to issue in the main file before an include would be deferred until after that file was processed. I advised many authors to instead put the relevant command into the \included file, and leave a comment in the main file. This is probably documented, but it's really a pain. Any hope that this might be made more well behaved?

@FélixGagnon-Grenier TeX files: WEB for the engine itself is even harder

@barbarabeeton only thing I can think of that has an issue like that is writing to the table of contents as you need to decide if you want to be before or after the \clearpage but that's not really an issue with \include would be the same if \clearpage is in the main file

If anyone around here wants to look at the bidi package... github.com/bidi-tex/bidi/issues/11#issuecomment-549165321

yay finally, all these work:

1 \includegraphics{a.b.png}

1b \includegraphics{{a.b}.png} % a.b.png

2 \includegraphics{a.b} % a.b.png

3 \includegraphics{foo bar.png} % "foo bar.png"

4 \includegraphics{foo bar} % "foo bar.png"

{
\graphicspath{{nospace/}}

5 \includegraphics{a.png} % nospace/a.png
}

{
\graphicspath{{space here/}}

6 \includegraphics{a.png} % "space here/a.png"
}

@DavidCarlisle When I compiled the code of my answer here with the new version of MikTeX, I had this error. I reported it on MikTeX and Christian Schenk tells me that he can't reproduce it. What about your side? github.com/MiKTeX/miktex-packaging/issues/139

@DavidCarlisle congrats

@AndréC I don't have miktex so can't comment on that (only thing I know about miktex is that it has admin and user modes and you need to update both if you do anything)

@DavidCarlisle Do you think that the error I get with ifxetex and iftex in compiling the code on MikTeX may be due to your last modification of iftex?

@AndréC oh sure yes, ifxetex.sty moved on ctan from being its own package to being contained in the iftex bundle of packages (along with ifluatex, ifpdftex, iftex, ifvtex...) so the texlive and miktex package managers needed to uninstall the old one and re-install it in the new location and if you have an empty directory something went wrong

@DavidCarlisle Christian Shenck claims to have done this, yet I have a mistake with the current version of MikTeX. To fix it, I added the iftex folder in my texmf: github.com/MiKTeX/miktex-packaging/issues/138

@AndréC did you update both user and admin? the previous iftex foloder would just have had iftex.sty, so your symptoms sound like it was not updated but I have never used miktex so don't ask me:-)

Just had to hijack stacks imgur space :)

@AndréC I can look at in a hour or so, but imho the update was ok.

@DavidCarlisle I installed MikTeX in administrator mode for a single user, I only need to put the administrator version, since there is no user version.

@UlrikeFischer Travis (or rather tlmgr) will not crash but only warn on non-existent packages.

tlmgr install: package ifxetex not present in repository.

@UlrikeFischer In my opinion, the error comes from the fact that the last update of MikTeX left the iftex folder empty in /tex/latex and copied this same file into /tex/generic. There must be a priority of one over the other so MikTeX looks in the wrong folder.

@bp2017 You can just use dvisvgm.

@AndréC as I say I know nothing about miktex

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I know, but in answering you, I also answer others who might ask themselves the same question.

@AndréC I don't see why the empty folder would make any difference if the file is in generic

@DavidCarlisle It's a neophyte hypothesis, I don't know how priorities are managed. I figured this because to make the modiagram package work, whose version was buggy, I just had to download the repaired file on github and put it in the texmf for the compi to work. This proves that the texmf file has priority over the others.

@AndréC you really shouldn't put files downloaded by hand into the miktex or texlive texinput trees that will just confuse the package manager, best to install them in yourlocal tree

@DavidCarlisle This is what I do every time, I put it in the texmf and so only it is taken into account. This is why this folder has priority over the others.

@AndréC the search order is set by TEXINPUTS but it only matters if you have two copies of the file as it determines which is used. If you have an empty directory in one place and the file somewhere else then the search order is irrelevant as you only have one copy of the file

@AndréC well to be honest it is not at all surprising if your miktex update is broken. You can not expect a package manager update system to cope with a directory tree that has also been updated by hand out of its control.

@DavidCarlisle Okay, thank you, so my hypothesis is wrong and that's not the problem.

@DavidCarlisle I haven't touched the MikTeX files, I only touch the personal texmf.

@AndréC oh I think I mis understood your "This is what I do every time" comment you meant you always put files in your local tree.

@DavidCarlisle My machine translator is far from perfect. I did this twice: first with the ocgx2 package to test if the correction made by AlexG was working. And for modiagram to test a file.

@AndréC Your English wasn't wrong, I just mis-read it:-)

@AndréC your log in the github issue doesn't fit the example, but if I try an example with geometry, miktex finds the correct (new) ifxetex. Update your FNDB and also update the package database in the miktex console.

@JosephWright when I run this document I get ! LaTeX3 Error: Backend configuration already set..

\documentclass[dvisvgm]{article}
\usepackage{animate}
\begin{document}
abc
\end{document}

Greetings to all the friends of TeX.SE. I didn't remember that today is my third year of inscription on TeX.SE. Thanks to all and good continuation of the evening. Very cordial greetings.

@UlrikeFischer github.com/ho-tex/grffile

@DavidCarlisle oh. ;-). I assume it needs the upquote branch?

@UlrikeFischer well actually the new version works the same way everywhere. (Mostly practising extracting it while preserving the git history:-)

@UlrikeFischer or master branch since a few minutes ago

@DavidCarlisle Oooh

@DavidCarlisle You are turning into ... me

@JosephWright eek

@DavidCarlisle Sorry

@JosephWright it's worse for you, you are turning into @PauloCereda

@DavidCarlisle :)

I don't know if I can get away with that new grffile (which does exactly nothing) but I hope so.

@DavidCarlisle hm. What is now the "state of the arts" branch? gh203?

@UlrikeFischer Frank is pushing that to master as well at the moment, I think.

@DavidCarlisle you should had left out the "for egreg" commit until there is a question on tex.sx ;-)

@UlrikeFischer shh