TeX, LaTeX and Friends

marmot

3:23 AM

@StefanKottwitz So are @egreg's. He's using DolomiTeX ;-)

2

naphaneal

7:22 AM

@cfr regarding my latest question: could you remind me, when did I ask the topic before?

Joseph Wright

7:58 AM

@DavidCarlisle Blog post on FAQ coming up

texdev.net/2018/06/03/…

TeXnician

8:22 AM

@naphaneal Yes, some kind of library would be required. But still, in usual LaTeX conventions, a package cannot be loaded after \begin{document}, and you usually want the command after the \begin{document}. This is why I think that this looks more like the kind of library to be included in a LaTeX editor, not package. Let's wait for Paulo Cereda's promised ArTeXmis :) — Phelype Oleinik 10 hours ago

@PauloCereda ^^^ :D

Paulo Cereda

8:38 AM

@TeXnician oooooooh <3

TeXnician

@PauloCereda Not a feature we would want to include though (memory overhead) ;)

Paulo Cereda

@marmot Thanks. :) It's about this: github.com/cereda/arara/issues/104 I can now find all the .asy files for compilation. Is it always the base name + something + .asy?

@TeXnician agreed, although marketing is marketing. :D

@JosephWright will take a look

@DavidCarlisle oh

@DavidCarlisle you don't have faith in me. :( I haven't mentioned ducks in the arara manual, and I am at page 80...

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda parrots are as bad as ducks, and you mention them on the cover :-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oi that's the tool name!

> Emacs 26.1 Released With New Features

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Do you think tags are useful for the FAQ?

David Carlisle

8:51 AM

@JosephWright looks fine. I was going to ask, the "curators" link on the about page doesn't really work, did you intend to link to github.com/orgs/texfaq/people ?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Probably we need to make put the about/authors stuff somewhere that is not affected by the 'Breadcrumb'

TeXnician

@PauloCereda Premature ~~optimization~~ marketing is the root of all evil :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes I think they could be (if we add them to more pages)

Paulo Cereda

@TeXnician LOL

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Cool: I need to do a bit of clean-up then

David Carlisle

8:53 AM

@JosephWright did you notice I made the tag list link back to the tags page?

@JosephWright we also need to do something with ctan.org/tex-archive/help/uk-tex-faq?lang=en do you think ctan would allow replacing it with just a README that points to github (or texfaq.org)

ShreevatsaR

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle Minor comment: Everywhere ‘‘ should be “ and ’’ should be ” (double quotes instead of two single quotes)

David Carlisle

@ShreevatsaR yes currently we are trying to be consistently wrong so we can easily use sed at the end to fix them all:-) Not sure yet whether we need to use “...” everywhere or whether was can tell contributors to use "..." and set up some "smart quote" processing at the jekyll build level

ShreevatsaR

Ah I see :-) Yes there may be some smart-quote processing on the jekyll end… [in any case I imagine typing “ won't be necessary; surely just “ ” in the source will work for example (if that's easy for the main contributors to type); nearly any browser/system today should probably deal with that correctly, assuming the http header or the page specifies encoding correctly]

David Carlisle

@ShreevatsaR well.. I can type “ more easily than “ :-) we are similarly suggesting using  , –, — as well, although the direct charcter data would work just as well.

Joseph Wright

9:09 AM

@DavidCarlisle I'd imagine so

ShreevatsaR

maybe you will end up writing a mini TeX processor in Jekyll, for dealing with all those -- and --- and whatnot :-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle, @ShreevatsaR Jekyll is supposed to sort this ... I'm not 100% sure of what we have wrong just at the moment ... need to do some experiments

David Carlisle

@ShreevatsaR I expect the guidelines will evolve.. in the original conversion from tex all non ascii used entities é etc, but that just looked weird in markdown source so we replaced all those by utf-8 character data, but (currently) left dashes (and Greek) so we still have π

Paulo Cereda

9:22 AM

@JosephWright: logo is ready

David Carlisle

@JosephWright @ShreevatsaR oh it seems smart quotes are working now davidcarlisle.github.io/texfaq.github.io/FAQ-startup so if we want that we can just globally change all doubled single quotes '' to a single double quote "

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Ah

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh quotes are smart

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Looks good

@DavidCarlisle make it so ;)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ^^ SEE

David Carlisle

9:29 AM

@JosephWright would just need to be careful to avoid latex code sections with ``foo'' but I could attempt a global query replace (emacs is good at that, ask @PauloCereda)...

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle boo

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda is it public?

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer I can post here if @JosephWright allows it. :)

Ulrike Fischer

Oh I'm in the list of authors texfaq.github.io/authors. I can't remember what I did to get into it ;-).

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer did you ever post to c.t.t and Robin steal your text? :-)

Paulo Cereda

9:36 AM

@DavidCarlisle LOL

Ulrike Fischer

9:52 AM

@DavidCarlisle Robin didn't steal! Much too nice a man!

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh English people

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer sorry, I meant to say, "politely borrowed without disturbing you by asking"

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle He quite certainly asked and probably politely polished up my english ;-)

Paulo Cereda

10:09 AM

@DavidCarlisle ooh English people

@DavidCarlisle Robin was never mean to me

David Carlisle

@JosephWright do you think we can lose the Hosted on GitHub Pages — Theme by orderedlist except perhaps on the about page? (well technically obviously we can, I mean should we, or "is it polite to lose this" or something)

ShreevatsaR

There's also a / missing somewhere in the redirects. E.g. I have tex.ac.uk/FAQ-minxampl.html in my browser history, but it now goes to the broken link texfaq.github.iofaq-minxampl.html (instead of texfaq.github.io/faq-minxampl.html) Same with all FAQ pages

David Carlisle

11:04 AM

@ShreevatsaR grrr I'll sort it out thanks, redirects are "interesting" as github pages don't support them so you need to do dances with <meta refresh or failing that with javaScript to do client side redirects

@JosephWright tags: latex macros is current the single tag latex macros should we split on spaces in the liquid coding, or just say it shoul dbe marked up on two lines as in the FAQ-xetex-luatex.md ?

marmot

@PauloCereda I'm sorry, I do not know. But doesn't that depend on the package? I know that with asypictureB you can adjust the name of the asy file, so there it is not the case.

Paulo Cereda

@marmot Ah I see. I thought there was some sort of pattern. :) But now, at least for arara 4.0, I can help the poor user. :)

@marmot: do you have any suggestions for a asymptote rule?

marmot

@PauloCereda Not really. Naively, I would say it should compile all .asy files that are newer than the last TeX compilation.

@PauloCereda But it is nice that the user can be helped now!

David Carlisle

@ShreevatsaR @StefanKottwitz can you see where the / is being dropped?

$ wget tex.ac.uk/FAQ-minxampl.html
--2018-06-03 12:09:41--  tex.ac.uk/FAQ-minxampl.html
Resolving www.tex.ac.uk (www.tex.ac.uk)... 78.46.26.59
Connecting to www.tex.ac.uk (www.tex.ac.uk)|78.46.26.59|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
Location: texfaq.github.ioFAQ-minxampl.html [following]
--2018-06-03 12:09:41--  texfaq.github.iofaq-minxampl.html
Resolving texfaq.github.iofaq-minxampl.html (texfaq.github.iofaq-minxampl.html)... failed: Name or service not known.

Paulo Cereda

@marmot I see. Is there any formation rule about the .asy file names?

David Carlisle

11:11 AM

@ShreevatsaR I spoke too soon:-) as you say. it's getting lost in the redirect so never reaching github at all

marmot

@PauloCereda Yet if you compile a document which embeds the asymptote pics with asypictureB, then you only need to do -shell-escape and it will compile all asymptote pictures for you. It is even intelligent enough to check if there were changes (but this does not always work, as I found in an example).

@PauloCereda I do not really know if there is a formation rule.

Paulo Cereda

@marmot got it. :) I would need to get some instructions on how to write an effective asymptote rule...

marmot

@PauloCereda I guess that's a bit nontrivial. With asypictureB, you can "smuggle" TeX macros in the asymptote pic. These can change, e.g. if you do an animation in which some parameter gets animated. This was an example in which asypictureB did not automatically recompile (but you can force it to do that).

Paulo Cereda

@marmot I could easily track the changes on a rule, but I might need some instructions. :)

@marmot: for now, I can write a very simple rule that simply compiles the provided .asy. Or I could ask to compile all .asy files found in the current directory...

marmot

@PauloCereda I'm sorry, I don't really know how to do that. Asymptote pics can also input other files. So you could imagine that the user changes the input file in her or his Tex file, in which the asymptote file would not change, its result however would.

Paulo Cereda

11:19 AM

@marmot Got it. I might need some help. :D

@marmot marmots are so kind! <3

Monochromatic English blokes are mean

marmot

@PauloCereda If you compile all .asy files, that might be too much. And notice that the compilation time can be quite long. I guess it is really tricky to find a perfect solution....

Paulo Cereda

@marmot oopsie. :)

samcarter

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle Question about FAQ-pkgdoc: I tried to make the link "Note that the site [texdoc.net] provides access to the" click able by replacing [] with <>, but then the link is no longer displayed in the rendered text. Any idea how this link could be fixed?

David Carlisle

@samcarter [texdoc.net](http://texdoc.net) I guess. (I can fix here)

@samcarter works now I think: texfaq.github.io/FAQ-pkgdoc

Jun 29 '17 at 16:15, by Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle you are not mean :)

gateprep

11:35 AM

I have downloaded MikTeX and want to begin with LATEX with a zero prior knowledge.Pls guie me..

guide*

SOme say the KaTeX is better..@samcarter@D@PauloCereda

Pls guide me...

Anybody answer me pls

@marmot

David Carlisle

@gateprep they are not related, katex is a javascript library for making math on a web page (using a latex-like syntax) latex is a typesetting system for making (usually) PDF documents. Which do you want to do?

@gateprep if you see comparisons of katex with something else, it is usually with mathjax (another javascript library) not with latex.

gateprep

I want to use math equations and also plot graphs when required..Pls guide me accordingly...

@DavidCarlisle

Can u help me with Mathjax or Katex

??

I have heard Katex is better!!

David Carlisle

@gateprep yes but where ? if you mean in a web page, miktex can not help at all.

@gateprep don't believe everything you hear on the internet

gateprep

ok sorry sir@DavidCarlisle

I want it primarily to upload equations in maths and physics.....

For stackexchange

David Carlisle

@gateprep well you don't need any software for that, and you do not get to choose which libraries stackexchange uses. they use mathjax.

gateprep

11:44 AM

Ok so help me with MathJax or katex then

@DavidCarlisle

David Carlisle

@gateprep just start a post and type $x^2$ and mathjax will turn it in to x²

If you click on the edit button of any existing post, you can see the math markup used and copy it so if I look at the most recent question on mathoverflow mathoverflow.net/posts/301887/edit

you see math markup such as $$|x-\frac{p}{q}|<\frac{\psi(q)}{q}$$

@gateprep which appears as

samcarter

12:05 PM

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright Thanks for fixing the link! New question: in FAQ-amfonts the code <sup class="fmk">&dagger;</sup><span class="footnote">&dagger;
  The fonts acquired their label "Almost" following the realisation
  that their first implementation in MetaFont79 still wasn't quite right;
  Knuth's original intention had been that they were the final answer.
</span>.

looks odd. Do you know how it is supposed to look like?

Had this been a footnote?

samcarter

12:22 PM

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright In FAQ-newlineargs // is written as //<space> which results in asymmetric spacing because the space in front is small from the normal text font and the space afterwards is wider from the fixed width font. Is this deliberate?

TeXnician

@PauloCereda Apropos optimization: you got mail :)

David Carlisle

12:38 PM

@samcarter (@JosephWright) In my original conversion to html (3 years ago but not widely advertised) seems like I did davidcarlisle.github.io/uk-tex-faq/FAQ-amfonts.html I'll see what I can do in this markdown setting......

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle @ShreevatsaR I think this is due to the combination of @StefanKottwitz's redirect and me trying to set up texfaq.org on GitHub. I had the same, and clearing my cache sorted it ...

@DavidCarlisle The docs suggest tags should get split at spaces, but that doesn't seem to work: I'll reformat them all (unless you beat me to it)

@UlrikeFischer I took the data from Robin's original, where he did have notes of what people did: github.com/uktug/uk-tex-faq/blob/master/faq-intro.tex

@samcarter Probably just needs tidying up ...

@DavidCarlisle That can all move to 'About', and we can use that space for the meta-links

samcarter

@JosephWright OK, I'll unify the spaces in FAQ-newlineargs and sent a PR later on

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle We can have Jekyll run on CONTRIBUTING if you like ...

@DavidCarlisle Do you think we should strip out the dates where we don't actually know when things changed?

David Carlisle

@samcarter texfaq.github.io/FAQ-amfonts

@JosephWright even if we included it in gh pages (which might be a good thing to do) it wouldn't run in the default github preview of md files

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle That's true

David Carlisle

12:48 PM

@JosephWright possibly would be clearer

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I think so: I'll adjust

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I could do the tags, unless you have an edit in progress?

@samcarter well so long as it works without the space, in the markdown flavour here for example \\ is easy but getting that without a space involves contortions that I can never remember

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Go for it

samcarter

@DavidCarlisle I created a PR. If it does not render OK, I can retract the PR.

David Carlisle

@samcarter you can run gh-pages on your fork (that's what I do)

Stefan Kottwitz

1:06 PM

@DavidCarlisle @ShreevatsaR @JosephWright Redirection issue fixed, it should work (if it's not in the browser cache remembered)

Joseph Wright

@StefanKottwitz Cool

David Carlisle

@StefanKottwitz thanks

gateprep

@DavidCarlisle @DavidCarlisle Can u pls share with me the link where I will get all MathJax templates?

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright I wasn't complaining, and I did wrote Robin over the years a few remarks about the FAQ (I linked to it a lot) I only didn't remember (or never knew) that Robin added me as contributor. Btw: texfaq.github.io/FAQ-floats imho shouldn't be in the errors section but in floats. (It is one of my favorites answers due to the first sentence ;-)).

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle Test for the last mentioned page: tex.ac.uk/FAQ-amfonts

David Carlisle

1:08 PM

@StefanKottwitz works!

gateprep

@DavidCarlisle

just start a post and type $x^2$ and mathjax will turn it in to x²

If you click on the edit button of any existing post, you can see the math markup used and copy it so if I look at the most recent question on mathoverflow mathoverflow.net/posts/301887/…
you see math markup such as $$|x-\frac{p}{q}|<\frac{\psi(q)}{q}$$

David Carlisle

@samcarter \\ works without the space it seems, see first two lines of davidcarlisle.github.io/texfaq.github.io/FAQ-startup

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Will move once I do the next push

gateprep

Pls share the link to mathjax

@DavidCarlisle

David Carlisle

@gateprep google for mathjax:-) but it's www.mathjax.org but you don't need that (other than for documentation) to use stackexchange.

gateprep

1:12 PM

@DavidCarlisle Pls elaborate sir I can't follow u absolutely

Joseph Wright

@gateprep For example, type $y = ax^2 + bx + c$ and the letters will be italic with a superscript '2' ...

gateprep

From where do I get the $...$ format

Should I remeber them @JosephWright

Joseph Wright

@gateprep Sorry, I don't follow at all: what do you mean 'get'? MathJaX is enabled (usually) by someone running a website

gateprep

ok but where do I get the formate from?

There must be other syntax as well....

You informed me about only one!!

:)

David Carlisle

@gateprep go to the math site click the button to ask a new question and then use the text $x^2$

Joseph Wright

1:17 PM

@gateprep Do you mean how do you learn the input syntax? It's based on TeX, so a guide to 'TeX math mode' is more-or-less what you are interested in

gateprep

yeah it will print x2

David Carlisle

@gateprep you could read any tutorial on latex or, as I suggested just copy the markup from any other question on the site

gateprep

Can u share a link

What about integration summation and all

Matrices,Determinants

Vectors?

David Carlisle

@gateprep google or look at any answer on this site!!

gateprep

Can u share the link to ur answer

?

David Carlisle

1:20 PM

@gateprep look at any post in math.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/matrices

gateprep

minx||Ax−b||

?

Paulo Cereda

@TeXnician oh no :)

David Carlisle

@gateprep your questions are not really reasonable, but $\min_x \lVert Ax-b\rVert $`

gateprep

Yes but sir I didn't find that syntax anywhere in the link

I just require them pls@DavidCarlisle

David Carlisle

@gateprep google for latex tutorial or read en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX

Joseph Wright

1:25 PM

@gateprep en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Mathematics but note that TeX itself is for typesetting, so the best docs are books ...

Won't do it now (@StefanKottwitz), but texfaq.github.io/FAQ-twooptarg probably wants re-writing to say (more or less) 'use xparse' ...

David Carlisle

@gateprep did you do as I suggest, and look at any existing question, then click "edit" to see the markup used?

@JosephWright sidebar looks cleaner thanks

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle No problem: I wonder exactly what wants to be there ... somewhere we need the tags somewhere

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes I wondered if it might be better to have the tags in the sidebar, also the top level index should probably link to the tags page, and maybe back to the gh source repo

@JosephWright oh one tag labels references escaped my regex, will fix

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Indeed: perhaps sketch out some ideas

@DavidCarlisle Just realised my title clean up deleted all other headings too ... will fix!

gateprep

1:41 PM

@DavidCarlisle Yes I did look for the edits...Thankyou it really helps!!

Joseph Wright

1:53 PM

@DavidCarlisle Looks good: nicely working tags :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright experimenting with tags in the main index davidcarlisle.github.io/texfaq.github.io

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Looks good

samcarter

2:11 PM

@DavidCarlisle Thanks for the hint about activating gh-pages on my fork. Works great!

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright About FAQ-enumerate: The code block at the end with %% at the start of the lines: was this meant as comment in the original tex source and should be hidden in the webpage?

Joseph Wright

@samcarter Probably ... see github.com/uktug/uk-tex-faq/blob/master/faq-how-do-i.tex

@DavidCarlisle Might be tempted not to capitalise tags ...

@samcarter Fixed

Paulo Cereda

2:44 PM

@DavidCarlisle: duck mail

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I wondered about that or only capitalize if lowercase to start with, CTAN would look better as CTAN than Ctan (but ctan would also look better than ctan, so just lowercasing everything might be better, or don't touch the case at all and allow mixed case tags ...

@PauloCereda quack

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle :)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle, @PauloCereda josephwright.github.io/texfaq.github.io

Minded to drop the text, just have the logo, make it a hyperlink

Alan Munn

Cool: matpalm.com/blog/counting_bees

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright ooh sexy

@AlanMunn amazing!

Also, I read napalm :(

David Carlisle

2:56 PM

@JosephWright yes text title could go (but make that teh alt text not "logo" in that case)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Of course

David Carlisle

@samcarter (@JosephWright) yes the logic was "lose % lines unless in verbatim" but it was confused by:

%% It is possible (if not particularly convenient) to do the same thing
%% yourself.  Suppose you want your top-level \environment{enumerate}s to
%% be labelled I/, II/, III/, \dots{}, then give these commands:
%% \begin{verbatim}
%%    \renewcommand{\theenumi}{\Roman{enumi}}
%%    \renewcommand{\labelenumi}{\theenumi/}
%% \end{verbatim}
%% The possible styles of numbering are given in Section~6.3 of Lamport's
%% book (see \Qref[question]{\TeX{}-related books}{Q-book-lists}).  Both
%% \csx{theenumi} and \csx{labelenumi} must be changed, since

@samcarter I'll delete, thanks

samcarter

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright FAQ-SGML2TeX: something is wrong with the rendering of the enumeration, but my markdown is insufficient to fix this

Joseph Wright

Logo activated: texfaq.github.io

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright YAY

samcarter

3:03 PM

@JosephWright Logo looks nice!

David Carlisle

@samcarter @JosephWright I'll sort it, thanks

@samcarter or maybe @JosephWright just did as I resynced and it changed:-)

@PauloCereda ooh

samcarter

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright (I'll soon stop to spam you, nearly at the end of my list :) In FAQ-newans: the link to [CONTRIBUTING.md] does not work. How are internal links to be entered?

Joseph Wright

@samcarter I need to make those links using Liquid, I think

David Carlisle

@samcarter @JosephWright and I were discussing that earlier currently CONTRIBUTING is just on github not exported to gh-pages, so you need to link to that version, or we add that link in the liquid back end, or we add the page to gh-pages (I think the last is simplest:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle We can adjust ...

David Carlisle

3:15 PM

@JosephWright currently we have exclude: ['CONTRIBUTING.md', 'LICENSE.md', 'README.md'] the README is really the readme for the source repo, but the other two would probably make sense on gh-pages as well?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes, probably: my only concern is the Liquid 'raw' business in CONTRIBUTING, as there it actually needs to show up ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright some combination of nested raw or hiding things in entities or something, should work:-) (I assume optimistically)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I guess link to the license from 'About'?

@DavidCarlisle Yup, there must be a way

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes and also to contributing if it works,

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Quite

David Carlisle

3:18 PM

@JosephWright I can play with that on my fork if you want

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Cool

I'm tempted to shift my blog to Jekyll: it is quite effective ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright mine's shifted to /dev/null so it's not such an issue...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle Probably I won't, partly as I do like having comments enabled, partly as the work at this stage is non-trivial

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

David Carlisle

@JosephWright hmph I took CONTRIBUTING.md out of the exclude list but it doesn't show up at davidcarlisle.github.io/texfaq.github.io/CONTRIBUTING

gateprep

3:30 PM

@DavidCarlisle I took up the task but I don;t understand why certain things are appearing red and not displaying properly..

David Carlisle

@gateprep sorry but you can't really get a personalize tutorial, you need to spend a couple of days reading some basic latex introduction.

gateprep

Ok I will..But I tank u for ur help@DavidCarlisle Greetings from India..

ShreevatsaR

@gateprep See also math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/…

David Carlisle

@JosephWright ah it needs a yml frontmatter to appear at all, now it appears, need to see what it looks like on the two sites...

David Carlisle

4:06 PM

@JosephWright hiding stuff from jekyll is quite hard:-) I have something working compare

davidcarlisle.github.io/texfaq.github.io/CONTRIBUTING

github.com/davidcarlisle/texfaq.github.io/blob/master/…

@JosephWright works without the category now

Paulo Cereda

4:20 PM

4

@DavidCarlisle ^^ new logo

@samcarter ^^ :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda arggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

'@JosephWright texfaq.github.io/CONTRIBUTING

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle that was... way worse than I originally expected... :(

David Carlisle

yesterday, by David Carlisle

@JosephWright no ducks please!! (@PauloCereda)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle /sob

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda don't cry, you'll dilute the orange sauce

Paulo Cereda

4:23 PM

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Keep calm and think of Headingley! ;-)

egreg

4:43 PM

@DavidCarlisle You should go back to Ducklington.

samcarter

5:11 PM

@PauloCereda Oh, best logo ever! :)

David Carlisle

@samcarter that's the last time I accept one of your pull requests:-)

samcarter

Note to myself: use unsuspicious commit message instead of "replaced logo by duck"

Alan Munn

6:07 PM

@samcarter I guess we could call this "duckrolling".

Skillmon

7:08 PM

@PauloCereda img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aV3LwLn_700b.jpg

Ulrike Fischer

8:19 PM

@Skillmon „Murder most foul... strange and unnatural.“

Joseph Wright

8:48 PM

@DavidCarlisle The new FAQ works great from small devices :)

Joseph Wright

9:50 PM

@DavidCarlisle Is it worth pointing Frank to the updated FAQ, in particular the redirects?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle All working very nicely ... would be good to have the same for the team site

David Carlisle

10:26 PM

@JosephWright it might be better to say filenames should be lowercase, but then supporting some old URL would require the javascript redirect

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle We could just make all of the names lower case and add redirects manually to those that need them, using redirect_from: - best long-term approach?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes but both redirect_from and my 404 javascript are client side redirects so typically not seen by web crawlers link checkers etc, so the links would work if a human follows them in a browser but typically won't work for automated searches, For a FAQ that probably doesn't matter, and anyway most old links seem to use the cgi-bin label= form and that requires javascript on the new site as well...

percusse

theverge.com/2018/6/3/17422752/…

FUUUUUUUUU

not again....

David Carlisle

@percusse yes we were chatting about that yesterday. Given how much microsoft are using git, it's not much of a surprise:-)

percusse

@DavidCarlisle They have been really in chaos after CEO stepped down but this is really not cool.

There is so much investment went into GitHub, the "tech debt" is huge. If they make only a few stupid moves we are screwed royally.

David Carlisle

10:36 PM

@percusse The optimistic view is that it shouldn't make much difference,it's always been a site run by a somewhat secretive corporate entity, even if it's basically a good thing for open source projects.

percusse

@DavidCarlisle There is nothing optimistic about tech giants :) How many Facebook leaks do we need to have? On the surface it might not be a big deal, but GitHub enterprise was supposed to be a neutral place for its customers. Now they will think again and maybe shift towards GitLab or BitBucket again.

I mean GitHub Enterprise Edition

David Carlisle

@percusse perhaps or perhaps it'll make no difference to the running of the site, and just mean some initial github investors get rich with the sell off, in which case good luck to them...

percusse

@DavidCarlisle Yes, no objection to that.

Alan Munn

@percusse I share your worries. This is the first I've heard of it too.

percusse

@AlanMunn Maybe I shouldn't work with it that much :)

Alan Munn

10:50 PM

percusse

@AlanMunn Are you collecting internet in your HDD?

Alan Munn

@percusse My account.

@percusse No, these are all my own personal projects. Packages, book drafts, class notes etc. Not all public.

percusse

@AlanMunn Ah I see.

By the way, I forgot to send you this

Alan Munn

@percusse Very interesting. Not so surprising in retrospect, but I could guarantee that 99% of people think that Hip Hop would not be like that.

percusse

@AlanMunn Forcing to ryhme & groove has a driving effect I guess.

But clearly there is a winning formula for commercial music

damn you metalheads, you should know better

Alan Munn

10:56 PM

@percusse Absolutely. And content might actually be more varied too. But that would require a kind of semantic field analysis.

@percusse They have no need for varied words because no one can understand a word they say anyway. ;)

@percusse This reminds me of a famous country song by David Allan Coe. Here's the relevant part of the song:

Well, a friend of mine named Steve Goodman wrote that song
And he told me it was the perfect country & western song
I wrote him back a letter and I told him it was not the perfect country & western song
Because he hadn't said anything at all about mama
Or trains, or trucks, or prison, or getting' drunk
Well, he sat down and wrote another verse to the song and he sent it to me
And after reading it I realized that my friend had written the perfect country & western song
And I felt obliged to include it on this album

percusse

@AlanMunn There is a turkish joke: Metalheads are shouting too much. It undermines their argument :D

Alan Munn

@percusse :D

percusse

@AlanMunn I'll use this from now on. Perfect ending.

Alan Munn

@percusse btw is this your data or from somewhere else?

percusse

Oh hang on

reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/8j7eg9/…

@AlanMunn ^^

Alan Munn

11:00 PM

@percusse Here's the whole song.

David Allan Coe - You Never Even Called Me By My Name

►

percusse

This is my poem for my english class in high school:

I had a radio
It was stereo
The song was good
But the feeling was wrong

Alan Munn

@percusse Already a rebel. :)

percusse

@AlanMunn ahah you might say that

or lack of proper english

Alan Munn

@percusse Nah, the English is fine, unless you thought it rhymed. :)

percusse

@AlanMunn Everything rhymes when you are stoned all the time.

Alan Munn

11:04 PM

@percusse Yeah man.

percusse

@AlanMunn I remember watching Joe Pass for at least 5 hours and thought that is the key to heaven. Next morning it was all like 'meh'. I will never forgive him.

It was too good :D

Alan Munn

@percusse Do you have an equivalent drumming experience?

percusse

@AlanMunn That's an interesting point actually. For professionals, I've never met a person who can get wasted and still able to play properly. To me it seems impossible even after a few beers I can feel that limbs are not following my orders. I can't imagine playing like Guns n' Roses. Probably they had tremendous practice time

So that they can handle certain things internally in their muscle memory.

Alan Munn

@percusse Apparently Baden Powell (not the scout leader) had to be tied to his chair some nights, so drunk he was.

BADEN POWELL - ASA BRANCA

►

percusse

@AlanMunn compared to his regular playing I wouldn't consider this a good night of his:)

Alan Munn

11:15 PM

@percusse Maybe that's why.

percusse

@AlanMunn on a different subject I think you should give this one a go. It deserves some slow reading

nature.com/articles/d41586-018-04998-1

Alan Munn

@percusse Thanks. It's something that our field is well aware of, I think. These are all from students it seems, but there are similar problems among faculty.

percusse

@AlanMunn Thelinked article in the first paragraph is quite new

Alan Munn

@percusse I think there's also a danger of a causation/correlation fallacy, though. The kinds of students who end up in graduate school are also often ones who have significant issues as undergraduates too.

percusse

@AlanMunn Even that is true (it certainly feelslike that), the conditions are, often times, way worse than working for a sweatshop. The suicide rates are going up too. But the narrative is still helping humanity, mankind's knowledge etc. Harrasment, emotional abuse and other topics are rarely addressed.

Alan Munn

11:29 PM

@percusse For sure. I think this is especially true in the STEM fields where much of the graduate work is really work rather than students own research. And unfortunately their supervisors are also under intense institutional pressure themselves,which exacerbates the problem.

percusse

@AlanMunn Yeah, the system is imploding silently. It is sad indeed

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