@marmot No, don't! I've seen that fail all too much in this proceedings volume I am putting together. Put braces around the subscript: $M_{\mathrm{w}}$.

@santimirandarp Sorry, forgot to ping you. ↑↑↑

@TeXnician Thank you, got it! Sadly, the mail provider insists on marking you as spam, although I've been telling it do not doing so. :)

@TeXnician I still need some days, but do not worry, I will poke you. :)

@PauloCereda I've written to my mail provider (2 mails in the last 4 weeks) to address the problem. I have neither received a read receipt nor a reply :(

@TeXnician it's a nuisance, but at least the mail arrives. It could be worse, the mail could be dropped before hitting the other end.

@PauloCereda You do not need to hurry. I've got some spare time currently, so I'm more "productive".

@PauloCereda Yeah, I remember setting up my first mail server wondering why no mail arrived at some big providers' servers. It was a long journey tracking down the problems…

@TeXnician cool. :) I am quite curious to see FX in action. I need to reorganize my mind since I only used Swing so far.

@TeXnician Ouch, I can relate to that. It's indeed painful.

@PauloCereda Actually, when I developed on this bulky closed-source operating system everybody uses I encountered WPF which had a similar concept of XML layout and separate code. When starting Java I loved JavaFX (probably that's why I also dislike Swing).

@PauloCereda I'll have a try to start a sample Griffon project with JavaFX and send it to you, so that you do not overestimate my skills ;)

@TeXnician WPF! I remember this framework. My problem with Swing is how people ommit important information. For example, if you want to use Swing and have no idea of what EDT is, you are going to have a terrible, terrible, terrible experience. But no Swing tutorial out there even mentions what EDT is!

@TeXnician Have you heard of SDKman? it's quite interesting. :)

@PauloCereda Really? As I were learning about multi-threading at the time I started Swing I found that very quickly. But the multi-threading of Swing is one thing I really dislike. JavaFX bindings are so elegant.

@PauloCereda No, but I'm satisfied with my IDE's management (at least currently). Maybe I'll look at it in the future.

@TeXnician lucky you. :) When you mentioned FX, I was really curious to know about bindings. That's one thing that always made me upset of Swing.

@TeXnician I still rely on my IDE as well, but I like because it can install other Java versions for me. :) Which IDE do you use? Eclipse?

@PauloCereda No, Eclipse didn't work out for me. I've started with Netbeans and am now using IntelliJ for its Kotlin support. Kotlin is a really great language.

@TeXnician Cool. I can't stand Eclipse. I use Netbeans on a daily basis, but I can see how IntelliJ is a nice IDE (at least, the community version).

Everybody is talking about Kotlin. Back then, I went on the other side and tried Ceylon. :D

@PauloCereda Oh, I've never heard of it. But I love Kotlin (even abandoned Groovy in favor of it). What's especially cool about it is the second nature as scripting language, which is used by Gradle nowadays (you can write Gradle build scripts in Kotlin).

@PauloCereda And just another nice thing in IntelliJ: the Java to Kotlin converter is quite good ;)

@TeXnician Really? I am really outdated. :) I had high hopes with the "holy trinity' back then (Scala, Groovy and Clojure). Scala had nice features, but I didn't like some parts of the syntax. Groovy called my attention (specially for nightingale), and Clojure is still a place for me to visit. :)

@TeXnician Really? Wow!

@PauloCereda Yeah, I completely understand you. I've went with Groovy for some time, but some time ago I switched to Kotlin and feel more comfortable. One of my long-term projects requires an add-on system and I really consider doing it in one language (Kotlin for programming and the Kotlin scripting part for add-ons).

@TeXnician I will take a look at Kotlin. :) I think we could "abuse" new technologies.

@PauloCereda What's the PhD defense procedure now for you? Is the defense date fixed already?

@yo' we (my advisor and I) submitted a list with 10 names for the defence committee to be approved in the next department meeting (probably May 3). Once they approve it, we get 5 names of that list (my advisor included) to compose the "official" committee, and I will have 90 days to defend. We have a date in mind, but we are not sure if the bureaucratic procedures will go smoothly...

@PauloCereda I agree. What's definitely not a good plan is to use plain Java as this complicates the JavaFX code (null checks etc.).

@TeXnician I need you then. :) I am still in the old school. :)

@PauloCereda I will be happy to help you. But everything is more functional than Java when it comes to write short and concise code, be it Groovy, Kotlin or something completely different.

@PauloCereda Btw: For the old school this is the perfect learning resource for Kotlin: kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/grammar.html ;)

@TeXnician I like functional stuff, do not worry. :)

@TeXnician ooh thanks. :)

@PauloCereda Me too. I'm trying to understand Griffon's project structure at the moment. At first glance it's a real mess (about 14 folders for an empty project and at least 10 gradle imports which are used).

@PauloCereda Ducks are better in surfing than sheep.

@egreg Yes. :)

@TeXnician I have a PDF book about it, but I am not sure if it's still updated (my guess is it's not).

@TeXnician: I will poke you in a couple of minutes, hold on. :)

@PauloCereda Well, I'm learning from the "example" they provide. That's usually the best way to see the intention of a software developer. Except for TeX ;)

@TeXnician :D

geese, actually (around 0.24)

@AlexG wheeeeee

@AlexG speaking of geese

@AlexG See? They even needn't a board!

@egreg wheeeeeee

@PauloCereda @egreg I've seen that before somewhere. Here maybe?

@AlexG I think it was me. :)

@PauloCereda Got it thanks, and just replied.

@TeXnician Thanks, I will take a look. :)

@TeXnician replying right now, stay tuned. :)

@DavidCarlisle or @JosephWright -- are you around?

@barbarabeeton Yes

And ducks. :)

@JosephWright -- i (actually ams tech-support) have been sent a problem file that uses amsbook and '\inputenc{cp1251}` with russian text input. the person who sent it has just updated to tex live 2018 and is getting really horrible complaints about Package inputenc Error: Invalid UTF-8 byte sequence., which he didn't used to get. trying to blame change on updated amsbook, but looks to me like a change in latex assumptions. can you take a look, please?

@barbarabeeton That's the wrong way to load inputenc ... but the new \UseRawInputEncoding should fix it

@JosephWright -- thanks. i'll suggest that. (we don't have tex live '18 installed yet.)

@PauloCereda boo!

@PauloCereda I haven't seen Brent here in a long while. I've been playing around with gitinfo2.

@yo' ooh

@AlanMunn He's around. :) I can poke him. :)

@PauloCereda In the default scripts supplied, the script seems to write to the wrong place.

@AlanMunn Ah I see

@PauloCereda It writes to .git/gitHeadInfo.gin but it should be ../gitHeadInfo.gin

@AlanMunn poked

Academic idiocy: a student of ours can't deposit the final copy of their thesis without a lot of hassle because one member of their committee has left the university in the intervening 3 months since the defence.

@AlanMunn Don't scare @PauloCereda ;-)

@AlanMunn Different rules to us ;)

@JosephWright So it wouldn't be an issue at all?

@AlanMunn We just need sign-off that the changes have been made from one of the examiners (internal and external) - one should still be contactable!

@JosephWright Ok. Yes it seems odd that all members have to sign off and still be on the faculty. So we have to petition to get this person approved as an outside member just so he can sign.

@JosephWright It's not like this is an uncommon situation. I actually think it has come about because of automation (which can't deal with people who aren't "in the system") rather than an actual policy.

@JosephWright Of course, it will now be rationalized as policy...

@PauloCereda You got mail (hopefully).

Hi, I have two problems: miktex doesn't seem to download missing packages automatically although the "always install packages on-the-fly" was ckecked

And also another problem with TexMaker-v5 which doesn't update the pdf view

I've already checked the questions on this forum, but they unfortunately didn't solve my problem

@Hakim Have you tried compiling on another way than just TeXmaker?

@TeXnician pdflatex from the command line is also not even trying to install missing packages

@Hakim Try updating your packages using the MikTeX updater and see if there's any error.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen OK OK OK. \relax ;-) (But who the hell is reading proceedings these days?;-)

@TeXnician Where can I find it? Is it in the MikTex console?

@Hakim Which OS are you using? Windows?

@TeXnician Yes Windows 10 x64

@Hakim Then you should be able to find it by searching "MikTeX update" in the start menu.

@TeXnician When I type miktex in the start menu, the only item returned is MiKTex console

@Hakim Then you should open it and look for the update tab (but I've not used MikTeX for quite some time, so I can't say if it's still there).

I've found an update tab in the miktex console, and I'm updating the packages

@TeXnician It didn't return any error

@Hakim Well, then I'm out of ideas. Maybe somebody else may help you. But if you really want an answer to your question it's mostly better to ask on the main site and not in chat.

Yeah, I'll probably end up doing that, but I'm wondering if there was an alternative to MiKTex+TexMaker on Windows

Hi

was wondering if someone could answer a question for me

@Hakim You could simply install all packages ;) Or install TeX Live instead of MikTeX which does exactly that. And there are alternative editors as well (see the comprehensive list on the main site).

@Hakim You can also use texlive. But as it hasn't an on-the-fly installation you wouldn't gain much.

How long usually does it take to compile bibtex/latex

because I dont know if I'm doing in wrong, because in a thread I made some guy said it was working for him, but it is still not working for me

fair

Can you ask for help in here

or is that a big no no?

@Gragbow I've seen many smaller questions in chat. But some questions fit better on the main site, so I guess it depends.

my question is basically how long does it take to compile

@mickep compile bibtex. I have a question on the main site, but I just wanted to know how long it should be taking me to compile

@Gragbow Is it a complicated document? How many pages? It is usually rather quick.

@Gragbow Usually seconds for not too large documents.

Ok

@mickep Thank you. I must have done something wrong then because I am struggling to get bibtex to work/compile

feel free to take a look if you want to! I need all the help I can get

@Gragbow So what Paul suggests does not work? It is not clear to me exactly what you do with your files.

@mickep Should we make a separate chat so I can speak to you?

Or is in here ok

@Gragbow How long does it take to compile your document?

@PauloCereda I think I'm habing trouble when it comes to compiling it with bibtex, i keep getting errors saynig that the citation is undefined

I followed Paul's step by step guide too

@mickep Which files should be the ones I do pdflatex>pdflatex>bibtex>pdflatex on

@Gragbow pdflatex file.tex and bibtex file (without suffix) usually works.

@mickep when I run the file ref.tex with pdflatex, it comes up with No file ref.bbl.

@Gragbow Try some minimal example:

\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}
\cite{doody}
\bibliographystyle{plain}
\bibliography{biblatex-examples}
\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer Very good, I was just looking for something small to paste, but I was not aware of biblatex-examples :)

@UlrikeFischer Yeah, I have done examples like the one you have suggested, and it does work there

Just this thesis document it is not

@Gragbow Then now slowly extend the minimal example. E.g. copy your bib file to the test folder and try one of its references.

@UlrikeFischer Yep works for my references too

It's when I have this multi .tex file where it fails

@Gragbow As I said: extend the example slowly. Change the class from article to your class.

@UlrikeFischer What would be an intermediate stage between a single .tex file and multiple .tex files in the same folder

Also I don't know how to bind 2 .tex files together

@Gragbow Do you run bibtex on your main file (i.e. if the main file is main.tex, do you run bibtex on main or do you run it on another file)?

@Gragbow Ignore multiple files for now. Get it working with one main file. If needed copy everything in it.

@mickep On which? my test ones at the moment, yes. But on the main thesis file, no

Ok

sorry

@mickep So I currently have 1 .tex file and 1 .bib file. At the end of my .tex file I have \bibliography{...} and \bibliographystyle{...}

And it is working for this

@Gragbow Well then try to move a small bit of text to some other tex-file which you \input{...} in the main file.

@UlrikeFischer That is working! with references too!

@UlrikeFischer when I put my bibliography{...} and bibliographystyle{...} in another .tex file and \input{...} it works too!!!

@Gragbow Now make things slowly more complicated. Play around with the system. Try also \include instead of \input. Btw: I didn't read the question but imho @mickep guess right: you didn't compile the right file. You always need to run pdflatex and bibtex on the main file.

@UlrikeFischer when I change it from \input to \include is where it fails

@Gragbow Where is the \bibliography command? In the \included file or the main file?

@UlrikeFischer the \included file

Can you show the content of the blg-file?

@UlrikeFischer I dont have a blg-file

@Gragbow You must have. Don't let you fool by windows, it will perhaps tell you that it is some some other file type, check the file extensions explicitly. (Don't double click on it, open it with your editor instead).

@UlrikeFischer gyazo.com/71ef2265ff929e236d8a6d95909a09a3 this is what my full folder looks like. Which file do you mean

@Gragbow What is with the folder of your tests, when bibtex worked.

@UlrikeFischer Yes. And you see the file called main, when I used \input{lol} and \input{second} it worked fine. But when i changed the \inputs to \includes it stopped working

@Gragbow Change your windows preferences so that it no longer hides extensions.

@UlrikeFischer Not to sound stupid, but how would I go about this?

@Gragbow google for "show file extensions windows 10"

@UlrikeFischer Ok done that, still not blg file

@UlrikeFischer gyazo.com/3c1f83a567e1c37e9dfe5301425d4946

@Gragbow And no log-file, so your editor is either putting them somewhere else or deleting them after the compilation. Are you using texworks? then check the profile for a "clean" option and remove it.

@UlrikeFischer I am using Texworks yes. Check the profile for Texworks?

@UlrikeFischer I am slightly confused by your last sentence

@Gragbow texworks preferences -> typesetting. The pdflatex + makeindex +bibtex profile has normally a --clean option which has the bad habit to remove log-files.

@UlrikeFischer This is what I am seeing. No --clean here. gyazo.com/97b2a19f9256aa39214437e2b82f8f75

@Gragbow Click on "edit".

@UlrikeFischer I see! I have removed the --clean. Do i just rerun everything now?

@Gragbow Yes. Then you will hopefully get log and blg-file which can tell what is wrong.

@UlrikeFischer Ok cool. i will do that now thanks!

@UlrikeFischer I have .log files but no .bbl files gyazo.com/cdf52ece16e83535f7f00a41fa58d856

@Gragbow Then you didn't run bibtex. But the "second.log" looks wrong, isn't this an input file? Call bibtex directly (menu typeset).

@UlrikeFischer the one called lol is the file with \bibliography and \bibliographystyle in ir. I have just ran it with bibtex and got the .blg and .bbl files. What now

@Gragbow well show what the blg says.

@UlrikeFischer Its a performance monitor? It's not showing anything atm

@Gragbow I said: open it in the editor. Don't double click, windows doesn't recognize the the file type.

@UlrikeFischer As you can probably tell I'm new to Latex, so can you please tell me how to get to the editor etc

@UlrikeFischer Just to double check you want tohe blg to be opened not bbl

@Gragbow Use the file->open menu from texworks.

@UlrikeFischer When I do that the blg file doesnt show. Im so confused sorry

Illl brb 2 mins

@barbarabeeton I wasn't then..

Switch in the open dialog from "texfiles" to "log-files" (right of the place where you can input a name)

alright

@UlrikeFischer This is what it said

Is lol.tex really the main file? It is the file that contains the \documentclass command?

No. The main fie is called main. the file called lol is the one that contains \bibliography and \bibliographystyle

@Gragbow Then don't run bibtex on the input file, run it on the main file.

@UlrikeFischer Ok ran bibtex on the main fule. Now what? No main.blg unfortunately

@Gragbow If you run bibtex there must be a blg.

@UlrikeFischer These are my 3 files. I havent included the .bib file because I didn't think it was important. gyazo.com/fa0b002f2abb6dae0cb49be03a09d4c8 gyazo.com/ca1103d224ea68c65760ab5c30d010a2 gyazo.com/bbdde55e435f304b42de8167ff341494

@UlrikeFischer When I run main.tex with bibtex, no .blg file is created

@UlrikeFischer I tell a lie. I've just found it

Put the files (all tex, log, blg. bib) in a zip-file somewhere for download.

@UlrikeFischer Ok, they're all in the same file?

Good evening to everybody.

@Sebastiano Buona sera. You got already an answer and using \newtagform from the mathtools package you can square the brackets.

@UlrikeFischer do you want me to email it or something? I'm going to bed soon but i will be back on in the morning

@Gragbow put it somewhere for download.

@UlrikeFischer dropbox.com/s/51m19isao6640yy/Stik%20file.rar?dl=0

Does this work?

@Sebastiano ;-)

@UlrikeFischer I'll be back on in the morning boss

Where is your problem? the bbl is fine and the bibliographie is there.

@marmot Buonasera a te :-). AHHAAHAHHAH Is there a question of the cause of all these ducks :)?

@marmot I have difficult to use \newtagform from the mathtools package. Can you put also your answer?