TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2018-03-29 (page 1 of 2)

9:14 AM

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright I added an answer to the problem with unicode-math and listings (tex.stackexchange.com/a/423803/2388). And now I'm wondering what is the "kernel" way to use standard catcode tables inside lua and latex. Should one still load luatexbase?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer yes I was just about to post the same thing, I added a link to fontspec issue

@UlrikeFischer catcodetables are a bit odd in that they have to be declared on the tex side, even though they are mostly of use from lua

Ulrike Fischer

9:30 AM

@DavidCarlisle So local latexcatcodetable = luatexbase.registernumber("catcodetable@latex") would be the right thing to do?

@DavidCarlisle ah sorry didn't saw your comment on the main site.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer No I just added it after your comment above:-)

@UlrikeFischer yes something like that although in a lua context calling it ...table might be a bit odd as almost everything in lua is a table, but that isn't one, it's an integer:-)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle hm calling it only latex is odder, as in the context here everything is latex ;-)

Paulo Cereda

I am alive today too

<3

@DavidCarlisle: did you miss me?

David Carlisle

9:49 AM

@UlrikeFischer you could call it context

user55789

Hi all, I'd like to improve my question which I have asked here: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/423678/…

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda no

user55789

Any hints on what I can do to improve it?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh

@DavidCarlisle: you are mean

David Carlisle

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

oops wrong one...

Paulo Cereda

9:51 AM

@DavidCarlisle oh no

/quacks in despair

@DavidCarlisle there's probably an equivalence class somewhere :)

David Carlisle

@user55789 not really, I'm sure as @UlrikeFischer hinted, the answer is don't do that (tikz must be vastly more than you need to just extract the pspictures (I'd probably use perl:-)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda We made many jokes about a certain bloke that pretends to write a thesis in the meantwhile while you were absent. Do you know him, by chance? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ooh I think I can guess

Wait a minute

OH NO

alhelal

1

Q: How to make schema diagram in LaTeX?

In schema diagram one attribute(foreign key) points another attribute of different table. I can point table to table, but not attribute to attribute. You just modify my following MWE that give the following result. One arrow from dept_name of instructor to dept_name of department. MWE(tak...

I don't understand why people don't response in this question.

At least tell whether it is possible in latex or not.

Christian Hupfer

@alhelal Perhaps it is too complicated? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

10:05 AM

@ChristianHupfer or trivial, by yshift'ing the coordinate. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda No, that would not prevent the TikZ mafia to show up :D

alhelal

@ChristianHupfer I have to confirm this.

Paulo Cereda

@alhelal We confirm for you. :)

alhelal

@PauloCereda complicated?

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda ... 'We' as in 'We, the majesty...' ? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

10:07 AM

@ChristianHupfer we da people :)

IMAGINE ALL TEH PEOPLEZ

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Oh, John Lennon :D

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer: which makes me wonder, why does a royalty bloke like to refer to him/her/itself in the third person?

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda First person plural, rather, isn't it? I think that 'We' shall show the majesty stands for the whole of the community/nation etc. So all the blokes and ladies ...

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer oh yes, I is stoopid

David Carlisle

@alhelal it is mostly because it is a poor question (would have been closed by now on most sites) The image is too big, you give no information about what the code does or how it relates to the image, and what you tried and what errors you had when you tried it

Christian Hupfer

10:11 AM

Royal we

The royal we, or majestic plural (pluralis maiestatis), is the use of a plural pronoun (or corresponding plural-inflected verb forms) to refer to a single person holding a high office, such as a sovereign monarch or religious leader like the Pope. The more general word for the use of a we, us, or our to refer to oneself is nosism. Speakers employing the royal we refer to themselves using a grammatical number other than the singular (i.e., in plural or dual form). For example, in his manifesto confirming the abdication from the throne of Tsesarevich and of the Grand Duke, Emperor Alexander I begins...

Paulo Cereda

@alhelal ^^ that. And also \draw (instructor) -- ([yshift=10pt]$(department.south west)$);

@ChristianHupfer ooh royal thingy

alhelal

@DavidCarlisle yes, the image is too big, but I don't need full. I mentioned below with small image part of the big to implement. And my MWE make the diagram with out the arrow. I need the arrow from you.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Nothing we have in Germany really any longer. We were progressive and kicked them after the Great War in November 1918, so hundred years ago (almost)

Paulo Cereda

@alhelal Your diagram code has no arrow, just a line.

David Carlisle

@alhelal well not from me, I know nothing about tikz, but I would edit the question to remove the big image, show the image you get from the mwe and the image you want and say in words what you want to add, don't make people do a diff by eye of two images to guess the question.

Paulo Cereda

10:13 AM

@ChristianHupfer: there's a famous baking powder in Brazil named Royal. :)

Christian Hupfer

Royale With Cheese - Pulp Fiction (2/12) Movie CLIP (1994) HD

►

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer you could change the constitution and have Queen Angela and do away with the pesky business of elections every few years.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: Another Royal(e) :D

@DavidCarlisle We still have no constitution in the real sense.

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer oh no :)

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer nor do we, even better then

Paulo Cereda

10:16 AM

jungle boogie is now playing inside of my head

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda hard to finish a thesis in that state

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle It's @ChristianHupfer's fautl

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle No elections then? ... I remember some elections in 2017 where the PM Theresa May was not really amused about the results ;-)

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer no elections for important roles like head of state

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Yes, my work is done for today ;-)

@DavidCarlisle Important roles like Queen or King?

alhelal

10:20 AM

@PauloCereda using this I can make a solution. Thank you.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: This discussion about kings etc. reminds me of King Arthur in 'The Holy Grail' and his discussion with the Socialist farmer :D

user55789

@DavidCarlisle Automated externalization is essential. As you can see there are inline pspictures but also equations and figures contain pspictures, replacing all these with includegraphics commands is utter hell and hyper time consuming at the order of magnitude considered

Ulrike Fischer

10:45 AM

@DavidCarlisle I could call it latexcatcodetablewhichisnotatablebutaninteger ;-)

5

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh German typesetting

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer gesprochen wie ein echter Deutscher

Paulo Cereda

IBM Plex typeface: github.com/IBM/plex

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle wie eine echte Deutsche ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Ich bin ein erpel

David Carlisle

10:55 AM

@user55789 sure but (I haven't read in detail your code) I would be tempted to run perl over your source, replacing every pspicture by \includegraphics{file-number-zzzz} while writing the pspicture to a new file of that name,

@UlrikeFischer details

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle people who got the language badge last year know to look on details.

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer speaking of which 1-year countdown to doom has started :(

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle !!!

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright ¡¡¡

^^ Will would see the marks like this. :)

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Oh my, yes. In about one year the UK must declare the leaving of the EU formally?

Paulo Cereda

11:05 AM

@DavidCarlisle I will need a visa for UK?

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda you ask the question as if anyone has the faintest idea what will happen.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda You won't have to worry as you are non-EU: it's Frank that might have a problem

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Wow, REALLY?!

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda yes of course, EU citizens have right of entry so after we leave they lose that right, to be replaced by some other rights that the leave campaign promised would be agreed but as yet there are no details

Joseph Wright

11:09 AM

@PauloCereda Your status is clear and is not changing, but for (non-UK) EU nationals we really don't know

@DavidCarlisle The transition deal (stalling) does look likely to cover this ...

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle, @JosephWright: makes sense from a regulatory point of view, but still...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright if like many people here you have families and mortgages and things, that isn't exactly a confidence building reply

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright, @egreg, @DavidCarlisle: we could go to this pizzeria in RJ: tripadvisor.com.br/…

Strawberry pizza is good.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I do know that

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda take @egreg

Paulo Cereda

11:12 AM

@DavidCarlisle I wil and make you proud of me

yo'

11:51 AM

Ok, so I think I will go to Iguazú on Jul 24 morning and back on 25 evening. @PauloCereda @JosephWright

Paulo Cereda

12:18 PM

@yo' Cool. :)

And it's Iguaçu, at least from my side. :)

Iguazú is from Paraguay's side. :D

yo'

12:42 PM

@PauloCereda tell Google, not me :-)

David Carlisle

12:59 PM

@yo' Google nikdy není v těchto věcech nesprávný

yo'

@PauloCereda Argentinian, AFAIK

Faheem Mitha

1:17 PM

I've been using \setlength{\textheight}{1.5\textheight}

as a way of lengthening the text area - most of the standard classes close off the area quite early, in my opinion.

I didn't find it myself. I found it in an answer.

I'm wondering it this is a reasonable approach.

AlexG

1:32 PM

@FaheemMitha Good typography requires the bottom border white space to be 2x as high as the top border white space. Don't change this.

see, e.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canons_of_page_construction

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha 50% larger seems pretty excessive (also you need to only add an integer multiple of \baselineskip, you are probably better to use the geometry package and specify the page block that you want rather than scale up some default settings

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle The 50% was just me experimenting. I'll scale it back.

@AlexG Sometimes I just need to get stuff in on one page.

Well, perhaps need is not quite the right word. It's just more convenient, I guess.

When it's a borderline case, that is.

@DavidCarlisle Will the geometry package override things as much as you want, or are there some built-in controls?

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha no idea (I seem to be the maintainer of it since this week so I suppose I should read its documentation one day) (but basically yes you can specify any reasonable page layout length and also tell it to fix up the lengths to make them consistent again

Faheem Mitha

1:47 PM

@DavidCarlisle I see.

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha if it's just one page, don't mess with \textheight use \enlargethispage{2\baselineskip} or whatever that is designed for single page tweaks

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle Ok, I'll try that. Thanks.

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha basically changing \textheight mid-document isn't supported at all (although you can do it with care if you use \clearpage in enough places)

Faheem Mitha

Does 2\baselineskip mean increase by two lines?

@DavidCarlisle I changed it in the preamble.

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha \enlargethispage takes a length so you can say 5cm or whatever you want 2\baselineskip is just the primitive tex syntax for twice the current baselineskip

Faheem Mitha

1:51 PM

@DavidCarlisle ok.

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha oh I was referring to your "one page" comment

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle I don't follow. Why would I try to change \textheight mid-document? To be clear, but get stuff on one page, I mean it's a one page document.

I suppose there are cases where I might try to get 2 and a bit pages of stuff on 2 pages, but that doesn't happen often.

Well, dinner time. Thanks very much for the feedback.

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha yes that's what I didn't understand (that it was a one page document) I thought you meant you needed to squeeze something on to one page of a multi-page document. For a one page document setting textheight is simpler and probably more sensible than \enlargethispage

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Foz do Iguaçu is a Brazilian city and it has two frontiers: Argentina and Paraguay. Argentina has a city named Puerto Iguazú in the waterfalls region, on their side. And the Itaipú dam is maintained by Brazil and Paraguay.

I know our names. :)

yo'

2:06 PM

@PauloCereda yep, I know all of this (was browsing the map for about an hour yesterday)

Also, Foz is only 2 hr by plane from Rio

Paulo Cereda

@yo' :)

Faheem Mitha

2:36 PM

@DavidCarlisle Ok, thank you.

Christian Hupfer

2:48 PM

Does someone have a spare undelete vote for: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/423808/… ???

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer I do! But should we?

Christian Hupfer

Please see also: tex.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7638/…

@PauloCereda See the linked meta question (below your question)

Paulo Cereda

Ah OK

@ChristianHupfer: it's up and running now

Christian Hupfer

This possibility of deleting questions although there is/are (unupvoted) answer(s) really sucks!

@PauloCereda Thanks!!!

@PauloCereda <3 .... the ice cream wafer for you ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer yaaaay

marmot

3:23 PM

@PauloCereda Isn't there a typo? Didn't you want to say "Ooh AK"?

Paulo Cereda

@marmot ooh

I never maek typos

3

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda cough ....

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer :D

barbara beeton

3:48 PM

@ChristianHupfer -- i don't disagree with this, but the op on the undeleted question made the answer nonsense by editing the question to change \[...\] to $...$, which is what the answer said should be done. but op claims (in comment) that there is still a problem. existing answer is a best guess, but there just isn't enough information to figure out why it doesn't work. i'm tempted to post a comment/complaint about the unfortunate edit.

David Carlisle

4:32 PM

@egreg blame Will

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Does it work also with Latin Modern Math?

David Carlisle

@egreg yes (and stix 2, don't know about others)

@egreg of course really the font is just doing what tex does with \leaders so it doesn't gain so much (so long as you can get the extension bits out of the font) but it feels less hacky:-)

barbara beeton

@ChristianHupfer -- i take issue with your answer to tex.stackexchange.com/a/423750 . yes, it works, but anywhere else that i can think of, a blank line in the middle of a math expression crashes. it's not a good idea to encourage bad habits. (i must admit i wasn't aware that array -- which requires math) allows this. bad, or at least inconsistent, design!)

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton it only allows it as array and tabular are the same apart from half a dozen bytes used to inject the $ in the array case.

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- thanks for explication. still a bad idea to encourage habits that can get one in trouble elsewhere. (by the way, i've come across a couple of things that i'll send you mail about.)

David Carlisle

4:44 PM

@barbarabeeton sure I haven't see the example yet just commenting on array v tabular :-)

apparently we're on holiday tomorrow and Monday, I'd forgotten:-)

Christian Hupfer

5:28 PM

@barbarabeeton I've added a better solution, by hiding the brackets in a macro and don't using an empty line.

barbara beeton

@ChristianHupfer -- thank you.

Skillmon

6:06 PM

And already found a question where I'm happy that I decided that duckuments doesn't add \par every time \blindduck is used :)

Christian Hupfer

@PhelypeOleinik: Congrats for being a fanatic now ;-)

touhami

6:26 PM

@ChristianHupfer hello sir :-)

Christian Hupfer

@touhami Ah, long time no see... hello

@Skillmon I am eagerly waiting for other packages like marmot and commands like \blindmarmot and \everymarmot, \ifpunxsutawneyphilseeshisshadow etc. @marmot

marmot

@ChristianHupfer \ifpunxsutawneyphilseeshisshadow will take a year to be expanded....

Christian Hupfer

@marmot `\let\end{document}\ifpunxsutawneyphilseeshisshadow ;-)

Skillmon

6:42 PM

@ChristianHupfer But I will not write a story about a blind marmot. The blind duck's story needs to be written and I find neither time nor inspiration for that.

marmot

\ifpunxsutawneyphilseeshisshadow
\hibernate
\else
\openeyes
\fi

Christian Hupfer

@barbarabeeton Actually I had the solution in my mind right from the start but I rushed into the one -- the one you particularly favored ;-)

@Skillmon Don't you have invented bedtime stories for your children and can transform the storyline into an epic story about a blind duck? ;-)

Skillmon

@ChristianHupfer I'm actually writing on a short children's story about a small owl I used to tell my daughter (funny side note: not as a bed time story, but as a story to distract her from pooing, which was frightening her). I have great plans in doing all the images in TikZ (which should at least produce one library of animals -- mostly birds -- and forest assets) and stuff :)

Christian Hupfer

@Skillmon Eh... that's too much information for me ...

Skillmon

@ChristianHupfer :) I thought it is funny.

Christian Hupfer

6:52 PM

@Skillmon lalalalalalala -- I can't hear you....

Skillmon

@ChristianHupfer no wonder, we're communicating via a text driven chat.

Christian Hupfer

@Skillmon lalalalalalala -- I can't read you.... ;-)

manooooh

7:29 PM

Hello! I want to plot the following equation using PGFPlots: wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+(x-1)%5E2%2By%5E2%2F2%3D1%2F2

Since it is an implicit equation, in order not to use the parametric form, I have to graph the positive and negative parts, correct?

Now if I use this code to plot (the positive part): \addplot[very thick,yellow,samples=300,domain=0:2] {sqrt(-2*x^2+4*x-1)};. When I see the graph I see that it does not touch the x-axis

So my question is, how do you make both points of the curve touch the x-axis without using parametric equations?

If the answer takes a while tell me I open a new topic. Sorry for asking a silly question, but if not the graphic looks like cut D:

Skillmon

@manooooh To actually let the plot start on the x-axis you'd have to make sure that the points where the plot hits the x-axis are an actual sample. So either increase your samples to a complete utterly insane value, or change your domain boundaries to be those two places. The following works:

    \addplot[very thick, yellow, samples=300,
    domain=0.2928932188134524:1.7071067811865475] {sqrt(-2*x^2+4*x-1)};

mickep

@manooooh Is it an option to plot it as an ellipse instead of using that equation?

Skillmon

But perhaps the precision of the domain is a bit over the top :)

@mickep yes, pgfplots does include that functionality

mickep

@Skillmon I meant if that was an option for @manooooh. I was a bit unclear, sorry.

Skillmon

@mickep no problem.

manooooh

7:46 PM

@mickep Yeah I know there is a command ellipsebut as I've been graphing other curves, it was done by doing it that way.

@Skillmon WOW. That worked for me, thanks! How did you calculate the domain with such precision (decimal digits)? Because I have other curves with this problem.

Skillmon

@manooooh well, there is still a small gap on the right side of the ellipse with the provided domain :(

@manooooh python :)

Paulo Cereda

@manooooh Rabbits are good at maths

@Skillmon ooh snakes

manooooh

@Skillmon Yeah I see, but with a 600% zoom hahaha, no problem

Skillmon

@PauloCereda at first I though, maybe I should use babylonian root, but than I didn't find pen and paper, so I asked my snake.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon ooh an oracle snake

manooooh

7:49 PM

@Skillmon Oh I don't have python... :/. I'll have to try different domains for the other graphics.

Paulo Cereda

@manooooh it's better for us ducks to not have snakes around, they are mean :)

Skillmon

@manooooh why don't you have python? You should install it. Best free programmable calculator there is :)

manooooh

Hahaha @PauloCereda

I have GeoGebra, also works? O.o

Skillmon

@PauloCereda you could transform yourself into a pink killer duck. Then you're strong enough to handle the snakes.

Paulo Cereda

@manooooh las cobras son peligrosas

manooooh

7:52 PM

@PauloCereda Eu sei, eu vi muito da National Geographic :P

Paulo Cereda

@manooooh ooh poliglot ducks

@manooooh I don't know much Spanish :(

manooooh

Of course... (thanks to Google Traductor ;D, sorry for taking away your illusions)

Skillmon

@manooooh Well Python is an all-purpose scripting language (which happens to have a fabulous library called matplotlib which is together with numpy a very effective Matlab clone, which can output the plots as pgf-code (or directly as PDF using a custom LaTeX preamble). So I never made any plots with pgfplots.)

manooooh

I know the very basic words of Portuguese @PauloCereda. And don't worry for not knowing a lot of Spanish

Paulo Cereda

@manooooh In 2017, I had to cancel a trip to Buenos Aires. I had a paper accepted in a conference, but I had an issue here that had higher priority. I was so sad I couldn't visit Argentina...

@Skillmon Python 3, right mr. Rabbit? :)

manooooh

7:55 PM

@Skillmon Wow, that sounds amazing. I will consider that, although I always like to handle myself in an environment and not work with more than one.

Skillmon

@PauloCereda who uses 2.7 anyway?

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon phew! <3

@manooooh: do you support a local team? :)

Skillmon

@manooooh I build a Makefile that I could run from within my VIM that builds all plots if necessary and then runs LaTeX.

manooooh

@PauloCereda Did you have problems with Ezeiza airport?

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda El python is una serpiente sin piernas :-P

Paulo Cereda

7:57 PM

@manooooh Oh I wasn't even able to go there, but that was the target airport indeed!

@ChristianHupfer Las lhamas son mas grandes que las ranas

manooooh

@PauloCereda Of course, the "millionaire" team, that is, River Plate

Paulo Cereda

Where's señor penguino, by the way? @Johannes_B

Skillmon

@ChristianHupfer and now I hate the fact that I could only choose between Latin and French and not Spanish when I was in school.

manooooh

@PauloCereda Ahh ya :(

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Si, si :D Mira, el Loco :D

Paulo Cereda

7:58 PM

@manooooh ooh cool! My local team and yours had very nice games in Libertadores!

Christian Hupfer

@Skillmon I learned only a bit of Spanish at my Institute ...

manooooh

@PauloCereda I think we beat them more times than you ... but friendship is always hahaha jk

Skillmon

@ChristianHupfer my wife wanted to teach it to me, but somehow we didn't pull that through. Now I can play "veo veo".

Paulo Cereda

@manooooh :) At least we beat you when we got the championship in 99. :)

manooooh

@Skillmon ¿Qué ves?

Paulo Cereda

8:00 PM

@manooooh my team is Palmeiras, by the way. :)

Skillmon

@manooooh una cosita

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon soy un pato

manooooh

@PauloCereda 99!?!?!??! Are you kidding me? I was born in 98 and I do not remember that ...

Paulo Cereda

@manooooh oopsie. :)

manooooh

@PauloCereda Oh yeah, El Palmeiras

Christian Hupfer

8:02 PM

@Skillmon I wish I would have enough time to study the language at an university and getting something like Salamanca Diploma ..

Paulo Cereda

@manooooh <3

manooooh

@Skillmon ¿Qué cosita?

Skillmon

@manooooh de color azul.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon ooh cielito lindo

LET'S ALL SING THAT SONG

manooooh

@Skillmon mmm... ¿Qué es?

Christian Hupfer

8:03 PM

@PauloCereda Alejandro :-P La camisa negra ...

Skillmon

@manooooh I don't know how to say the following in Spanish: The highlighting of my user name in this chat.

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ooh lady Gaga reference

I know a couple of tangos and boleros in Spanish... that's my vocabulary, basically!

Mujer, si pudes tu com Dios hablar...

manooooh

@Skillmon You could say "El subrayado de mi nombre en este chat."

Skillmon

@PauloCereda hace mucho mucho tiempo

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon si! :)

Datemi un martello

manooooh

8:06 PM

@PauloCereda what a beating you gave us recently ... I do not remember this `(?: youtube.com/watch?v=P58j-qsGK0s

Paulo Cereda

Oopsie, wrong language

Skillmon

@PauloCereda and "hijo de la luna"

Paulo Cereda

@manooooh Oh I remember that game!

manooooh

@ChristianHupfer Hahahaha, that is a song, did you know?

Paulo Cereda

@manooooh: let's see if Palmeiras and River meet in this year's tournament. :)

Skillmon

8:07 PM

@manooooh which one? "Alejandro" or "la camisa negra"? Both where in the charts in Germany and were played all the time in the radio (and I dislike both...)

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon oh no

Christian Hupfer

@manooooh: @PauloCereda: Yo me llamo Christian y soy aleman de Selva Negra. Yo soy professor de fisica, mathematica y bioinformatica y hablo español solamento un poco ;-)

manooooh

@Skillmon upsie... I mean "La camisa negra"

Skillmon

@PauloCereda oh, yesss! Teach me tiger, how to tease you... Wowowowowoa.

Christian Hupfer

@manooooh Yes, Juanes, right?

manooooh

8:09 PM

@ChristianHupfer Good! Only "mathematica" is wrong, it should be "matemática"

Yes

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon :D

Christian Hupfer

@manooooh There should be a spelling revision in Spanish then :D

manooooh

@PauloCereda I hope not... haha

Paulo Cereda

Me enamora, que me hables con tu boca

@manooooh <3

Cucurucucuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu... Palooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooma

A classic

@manooooh ^^ :)

Skillmon

@ChristianHupfer there was and they made everything easy. Everything is spelled how it's spoken. Compare their spelling to French...

Christian Hupfer

8:11 PM

@Skillmon Wait until @PauloCereda opens the box of Pandora and offers you Yodeling with some Bavarian Bloke or Schnappi → that are weapons of mass despair ;-) You would like Alejandro etc. after that :D

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer OOOH HOLD ON

manooooh

@PauloCereda Juanes, noice!! Good songggggg

Christian Hupfer

@Skillmon I meant "matemática" → "mathematica" ;-)

Paulo Cereda

Franzl Lang - Auto Jodler

►

Skillmon

@ChristianHupfer I know. And they turned it into something predictable.

Paulo Cereda

8:13 PM

^^ this is a friendly German version of GTA :)

Skillmon

Kamelo Punto Semos - Jonathan (Video Oficial)

►

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda GTA like in Great Torture Announcement? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ooh :)

Alan Munn

@Skillmon For all languages, the sentence "everything is spelled how it's spoken" is false.

manooooh

@PauloCereda Oh my lord

Skillmon

8:14 PM

@AlanMunn Give me an example in Spanish.

Paulo Cereda

Great, our resident linguist arrived. :)

@Skillmon I will not buy this Spanish, it's scratched. :)

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn @PauloCereda: Everything is pronounced as Throatwobbler Mangrove. MP's rule of articulation ;-)

Alan Munn

@Skillmon E.g. In Argentinian Spanish the pronunciation of orthographic 'y' in ley is different from the pronunciation of 'y' in the plural leyes.

manooooh

That's right, @AlanMunn

Alan Munn

@Skillmon And in all varieties of Spanish, the pronunciation of 'b' in haber is different from the pronunciation of 'b' in ambos. Same for 'g' and 'd'.

Christian Hupfer

8:20 PM

@manooooh @PauloCereda: Shakira is from Colombia, right?

manooooh

Another example: "Ajedrez" (which means chess) is pronounced as "Ajedrés" (do not emphasize in the zeta)

CarLaTeX

@AlanMunn At least in Italian every letter or couple of letters is spelled always in the same way, not like in English where you spell "i" or "ai" (Italian sound) for "i", "iu" or "a" for "u", etc...

manooooh

@ChristianHupfer Yep.

Alan Munn

@CarLaTeX Sure. My statement was not about regularity of the spelling system, just its correspondence to pronunciation. These are different things.

Christian Hupfer

@manooooh @PauloCereda: We need @Johannes_B now ....

Skillmon

8:22 PM

@AlanMunn but if you hear the word you know immediately how it is spelled. I did not state that the pronunciation of every letter is the same in every word.

@AlanMunn this is not true for stuff like "se" and "ze" if you're not in Spain itself (and preferably near Madrid) of course.

CarLaTeX

@AlanMunn I think it's what we think when we say that Italian is spoken as it is written!

Christian Hupfer

@Skillmon Try that with the Russian word Здравствуйте, for example ...

Alan Munn

@Skillmon No, but you said that things are spelled as they are pronounced, which implies a kind of one to one correspondence between sounds and letters. And this is always false.

manooooh

@PauloCereda youtube.com/watch?v=HUs8HNeTlD8

Alan Munn

@CarLaTeX Right, that's closer to being right, but it isn't really the same thing. :)

CarLaTeX

8:25 PM

@AlanMunn linguistic is complicated

Alan Munn

@CarLaTeX Yep. :)

CarLaTeX

@AlanMunn :)

Skillmon

@AlanMunn that is actually an interpretation of what I've said, and not what I've said. $A\Rightarrow B$ doesn't imply $B\Rightarrow A$.

manooooh

If you want to improve yourself in pronunciation it seems good (for some work for example), but I think that speaking the language you want without pronouncing as you should (that is, listening to the one who knows but not knowing how to pronounce it well) is understood anyway.

Skillmon

@ChristianHupfer I don't know Cyrillic that well. Actually I don't know Cyrillic at all.

manooooh

8:30 PM

I do not know how to pronounce English very well, but if someone who speaks it listens to me speak English I do not think he does not understand anything. They are questions to refine nothing more. It's like listening to a guitar student; If he starts playing a super-recognized song, even if he plays badly, you'll know right away.

egreg

@manooooh Welcome to a new duck!

David Carlisle

@egreg more dinner!

manooooh

@egreg Thank you! Welcome, too (?

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle you Brits really do eat everything, don't you? (not that I don't eat ducks)

2

Christian Hupfer

@Skillmon Difficult language it is, Yoda would say ;-)

David Carlisle

8:31 PM

@Skillmon we eat ducks

manooooh

Oh... do I have to worry guys?

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle and haggis.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon we don't eat strawberry pizza

@Skillmon only north of the border

Christian Hupfer

@manooooh :@DavidCarlisle will publish a book about Duck Recipes, using his typewriter package ;-)

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle that's good news @CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle still Brits (how is their independence movement going on after Brexit?)

David Carlisle

8:33 PM

@Skillmon did you see @PauloCereda promised to take @egreg to a stawbery pizza place at tug 2018

CarLaTeX

@Skillmon Also @egreg and I eat ducks, we have also a photo of us eating some “bigoli al sugo d'anatra”

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle no, but sounds great.

manooooh

@ChristianHupfer Oh no... I'm not yellow! Do not eat me!

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle Don't you?

Christian Hupfer

@manooooh I don't eat duck

egreg

8:34 PM

@CarLaTeX We actually have a photo of the bigoli, not of us eating them. But they were very good. :-P

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX I have never even seen one:-)

Skillmon

@ChristianHupfer also not in Chinese food?

CarLaTeX

@egreg Don't be fussy! :):):)

Christian Hupfer

@Skillmon No, well, I should say, that I have not eaten duck for years, most likely 8 years etc... that's years before I entered this duck madness here ;-)

manooooh

@ChristianHupfer Uffff goodness, I was saying it because of the package that @DavidCarlisle is going to take

egreg

8:36 PM

@manooooh Sorry to say, but at the World Cup I'll not back Argentina, notwithstanding Higuaín. Maybe if another player gets selected…

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle That surprises me, you eat any strangeness in the world...

manooooh

@egreg Mmmm, I do not have much faith in my country either. Do you say it for some topic / comment that I made? :P

egreg

@manooooh Just saw your jersey. :-)

CarLaTeX

@egreg Is there a World Cup this year?

Skillmon

@CarLaTeX yep.

manooooh

8:38 PM

@CarLaTeX Hahaha, I always thought that those who make the continuity of this forum possible were more "normal", but now I feel more included ^-^

Skillmon

@manooooh everyone is normal until you know them.

manooooh

@CarLaTeX Yep, Russia 2018

CarLaTeX

@manooooh Normal? We?

manooooh

@egreg O.o

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX No it is in 2019

Skillmon

8:39 PM

time for patriotism: GERMANY WILL WIN ANYWAY!

CarLaTeX

@manooooh I was ironic :)

egreg

@manooooh Don't dare calling me Normal! I'm not related to Mr A. B. Normal, you know.

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle who in the world has the stamina to watch cricket without falling asleep?

manooooh

@Skillmon Off-topic, delete that, ignore that... xD

Christian Hupfer

@Skillmon No...

Skillmon

8:40 PM

@ChristianHupfer not? Too bad :)

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle You risk not to be there, too...

Christian Hupfer

@Skillmon I hate football

Skillmon

@ChristianHupfer I enjoy playing it. Watching isn't to my liking, too.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon it's only 5 days per game, and you get exciting bits like people using sandpaper to change the texture of the ball

manooooh

@Skillmon The question is... am I going to meet these wonderful people once in person (including you)?

Joseph Wright

8:41 PM

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle And the bit where you go to the shipping forecast and there is a batting collapse

Skillmon

@manooooh not at the next TUG, but perhaps somewhen (the literal translation exists in German).

David Carlisle

@JosephWright they should make those forecasts shorter, just in case we're all out for less than 60

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Is this a reference to the Australian Cricket scandal?

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer see big news even in Germany?

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle I for one had no clue.

Joseph Wright

8:43 PM

@DavidCarlisle :)

manooooh

@Skillmon Lol Ok.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Big news... yes, \Biggggggg news here ... all German cricket fans are shocked... i.e. both of them ;-)

5

Skillmon

@manooooh you might visit me in Germany, though.

@ChristianHupfer there are two?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright running test suite again... (helpful error texts helpfully break tests checking errors....)

Christian Hupfer

@Skillmon I used some 3 sigma error range ;-) The mean values seems to be 0 :D

Joseph Wright

8:44 PM

@DavidCarlisle :)

manooooh

@Skillmon I'll do it when I get more $$$

egreg

@Skillmon There were three, but one died of yawning.

3

David Carlisle

@Skillmon cricket.de

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle I'm shocked! The site appears to be a scam.

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- since you're here ... should i mention any specifics where amsmath has been "corrected" by mathtools?

David Carlisle

8:46 PM

@Skillmon possibly. The words do look too long to be genuine words

@barbarabeeton I suppose so, although that just leads to the question of whether we should just port the fixes back, but I can't do that in this round, too busy on the format.

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- okay, i'll omit, but send you a (short) list of the things i'm ignoring, so they can go to the top of your fixit list. thanks.

time to go home. or rather, to my exercises.

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton OK thanks

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