@StefanKottwitz Thanks. The question could have been made reasonable in principle, (TeX history isn't off-topic per se) but it was pretty clear from the OP's comment on my answer that they just wanted to have confirmation of their rant ans were unwilling to change anything.

@egreg ^^^ congrats! Should I downvote one of your answers to remove the rounding error? ;-)

@egreg Congrats! Party?

@marmot Yay, congrats!

PARTY!

@PauloCereda You should "congrat" with @egreg (I did the same error before)

@CarLaTeX oh

@egreg congrats!

@PauloCereda How is life after the defense?

@mickep it's tough, to be honest. :) Situation is Brazil is quite challenging at the moment.

@PauloCereda Yes, we hear that in the news. I hope it will get better.

@marmot Good idea! Oh, wait!

@mickep Me too. :) Academia is in bad shape for a couple of years, and given the economic crysis, the situation worsened. :)

@egreg ^^ :)

Ohh, algebra!

@mickep we ducks are good with math. :)

And apparently chickens are good too. :)

@DavidCarlisle, @CarLaTeX, @AlanMunn: twentytwowords.com/pineapple-christmas-trees

Anybody knows when roughly \counterwithin and \counterwithout were added to the kernel?

@Skillmon April 2018 release

@JosephWright thank you very much!

@Skillmon /waves to mr. rabbit

@PauloCereda @DavidCarlisle's Xmas tree :)

@PauloCereda Algebra is very useful in everyday life. It's an axiom of algebra itself.

@CarLaTeX :)

@egreg ooh an axiom

@PauloCereda Hello, Mr. Duck.

@Skillmon Quack. :)

@PauloCereda /rabbit sound

@Skillmon ooh

\documentclass[margin=0.5cm]{standalone}

\usepackage{tikz}

\definecolor{c002c8b}{RGB}{0,44,139}
\definecolor{cff0101}{RGB}{255,1,1}
\definecolor{c0175a6}{RGB}{1,117,166}

\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}[y=0.80pt, x=0.80pt, xscale=2, yscale=-2, inner sep=0pt, outer sep=0pt]
\begin{scope}[shift={(-18.15207,-68.01629)}]
  \path[fill=c002c8b,nonzero rule,line width=0.028pt] (75.0199,68.4896) ..
    controls (71.9154,69.2406) and (68.7912,71.0091) .. (66.5049,73.3096) ..
    controls (65.1724,74.6501) and (64.3691,75.7543) .. (64.3748,76.2376) ..

@CarLaTeX ^^ Giornata mondiale della gioventù :)

@PauloCereda Oooh in Panama!

@PauloCereda ^^^^

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@marmot those 2 are the deserved points I suppose.

Hello @DavidCarlisle, a question regarding enumerate.sty

is it possible to have [1] as printed enumerator?

nevermind, i found the question answering my question...

    \documentclass[]{article}

    \usepackage{enumerate}

    \begin{document}
    \begin{enumerate}[{[1]}]
      \item a
      \item b
    \end{enumerate}
    \end{document}

@Lupino

But perhaps better use enumitem (more customizations possible), with:

    \documentclass[]{article}

    \usepackage{enumitem}

    \begin{document}
    \begin{enumerate}[label={[\alph*]}]
      \item a
      \item b
    \end{enumerate}
    \end{document}

thanks. eventually, I went with the optional argument of standard \item and a few customizations.

> Mosquito repellents don't actually repel; they just hide you from mosquitoes.

And also

They bloke who created SpongeBob has passed away.

@DavidCarlisle ^^

@PauloCereda If he's 42 years old, has a lisp and tries to run everything in your life, he's not your man, he's emacs.

@AlanMunn LOL

@AlanMunn ^^ :)

cool clock: codepen.io/g00glen00b/pen/NEOdvo

@Lupino [{[}1{]}]

@samcarter I have a binary watch as proof of my geekness to help me see the time. :)

@PauloCereda Me too :) I have the one on the right: hjgode.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/binary-watch-io.jpg

@samcarter ooh I have a similar one to the right too! But mine is round. :)

Switching between time zones and/or day light saving time is annoying, as it involves pressing little buttons way too often :(

@PauloCereda Now I wonder how a ducks wears a wrist watch ...

@marmot @egreg is missing one question upvote to have a palindrome :)

@samcarter ooh a mystery

@PauloCereda google is not helping, it just shows me images like rlv.zcache.com/…

@samcarter ooh

@boycott.se-yo' unfortunately this is a very hard thing to do ...

@boycott.se-yo' It is not too exciting as this won't be a paliprime. ;-)

@marmot Isn't him the emperor in Star Wars?

@PauloCereda Have you ever looked at the emperor? He is so wrinkled, meaning he had too much pineapple or Nutella pizza, I do not see how this could be @egreg.

@marmot I meant Emperor Paliprime. :)

@PauloCereda Really? I always thought he was a kid raised by eagles.

@marmot oh /brain freezes

@PauloCereda I hibernated many winters and this never happened.

@marmot The difference is: you are not a duck but a marmot in a burrow

@samcarter Now I am relieved. ;-)

Someone has an idea on how I can put \left. \phantom{\begin{matrix}a\\a\\a\\a\\\end{matrix}} \right\} = \mathcal{S} on top of another math-environment?

Setup is like this: $ ... $\hspace{20em}$ ... $

It tried \vspace{-42em} without luck, this only affects the text below the second math environment

@NaCl you would be better to make a full example and ask on the main site, hard to guess what you are trying here. Why the phantom? If you are just forcing the size of } perhaps \vphantom would be better?

Basically, I'm trying to fiddle a }-brace next to certain lines in a align environment

@NaCl so you don't want the width of the matrix so use \vphantom which makes a 0-width strut the height of its argument

@NaCl also picture mode is your friend \begin{picture}(0,0)\put{10,10){$\left.\rule{0pt}{4cm}\right\}$}\end{picture} takes no horizontal or vertical space but allows you to put the big } anywhere by changing the \put coordinates.

ah, yes

@DavidCarlisle Awesome, thank you!

@DavidCarlisle picture mode saves the day again?

@NaCl it works better if you use \put(10,10)` than \put{10,10) :-)

@PauloCereda of course. That and emacs.

@DavidCarlisle boo

@PauloCereda -- and for some people they don't even do that.

@barbarabeeton oh

@AlanMunn: gizmodo.com/… :)

@PauloCereda :)

Would a box assignment also be colour safe if I issue \set@color inside of the box assignment (or prior to it) and afterwards issue \reset@color? So e.g. would \set@color\setbox0\hbox{<something>}\reset@color be colour safe?

I just tried, and it isn't (don't really understand it though)

Does anybody have an idea how I could get grabbox colour safe? The problem is, that I can only easily inject stuff prior to the box assignment, at the beginning of the box assignment and after the box assignment. I don't know a way to inject code at the end of the box assignment, but in order to make it colour safe, it seems that this is required.

@Skillmon no

@Skillmon probably \aftergroup\egroup is your friend

@DavidCarlisle I thought so, too, but currently I seem to stupid to get it to work.

@DavidCarlisle I tried something like the following:

\documentclass[]{article}

\usepackage{xcolor}

\makeatletter
\def\mysetcolorAUX#1\aftergroup\reset@color{\unexpanded{#1}}
\edef\mysetcolor{\expandafter\mysetcolorAUX\set@color}
\newcommand*\myresetcolor
  {%
    \reset@color\egroup
  }
\newcommand*\mycolorsafebox
  {%
    \bgroup\mysetcolor
    \aftergroup\myresetcolor
  }
\newcommand*\mysetgroup
  {%
    \bgroup\set@color
  }
\newcommand*\myendgroup
  {%
    \endgraf\egroup
  }
\makeatother

\begin{document}
Works:
{\color{blue}\setbox0\hbox{\mycolorsafebox\color{red}test}\unhbox0test}

\myendgroup is a leftover from something else I've tried.

\documentclass[]{article}

\usepackage{xcolor}


\makeatletter
\newcommand*\mycolorsafebox
  {%
    \bgroup
    \aftergroup\zzz
  }

\def\zzz{\@ifnextchar\reset@color{\reset@color\zzzb}{\egroup}}
\def\zzzb#1{\zzz}

\makeatother
\begin{document}
Works:
{\color{blue}\setbox0\hbox{\mycolorsafebox\color{red}test}test}

Works, but isn't what I need: % this doesn't work !!
%\color{blue}\sbox0{\color{red}test}test

works
\color{blue}\sbox0{{\color{red}test}}test
\end{document}

@Skillmon this^^ ?

@DavidCarlisle why do you say that my "Works, but isn't what I need" doesn't work? It does create the correct output, even without the additional groups you've added. Else: why does this work without \color@setgroup equivalent code?

(LaTeX's colouring stuff is still a big mystery for me)

@Skillmon you have corrupted the pdf colour stack so you may get away with it for a while but every time you use the box it will get worse. \color{red} is push red, aftergoup pop so the reason why \sbox0{\color{red}test} is not color safe is that you end up with a push in the box (so that never happens unless you use the box) but the pop appears in the current list at that point. then every time you use box0 you will do a push red and never pop

@DavidCarlisle so what do \color@setgroup and \color@endgroup do in \sbox? I thought that was to make them colour safe.

@Skillmon yes they are just an extra group, if you go \sbox0\hbox{{\color{red}test}} it is colour safe as the aftergroup'ed pop happens inside the box.

@DavidCarlisle so they aren't needed at all? Wouldn't then \setbox0\hbox{{\color{red}test}} be colour safe as well?

@Skillmon yes, "color safe" == "an extra group" that is all there is to it.

@DavidCarlisle Why does \color@setgroup a \begingroup\set@color in that case? What's that extra \set@color aftergrouping another \reset@color meant to do?

All it does is incrementing the colour stack by one and decreasing it by one after the next group, pushing the same colour on top, if I understand correctly.

@DavidCarlisle Forgot to say: Thank you very much, this seems to work as intended!

@Skillmon it's all a political trick to help introduce latex2e, we needed the extra groups but if we added them to \sbox by default some things not expecting the group would break so latex.ltx defines \let\color@setgroup\relax and \let\color@endgroup\relax so by default there are no extra groups, and things only broke if you loaded color.sty but in 1994 few people had a colour screen and almost no one had a colour printer so that did not affect too many people

@DavidCarlisle So they're obsolete and the kernel should do \def\sbox#1#2{\setbox#1\hbox{{#2}}} nowadays?

@Skillmon perhaps. (that's what the l3 versions of box setting do, they are colour safe as defined)

@DavidCarlisle why is there a dedicated \color_group_begin: and \color_group_end: though? And how important is the \par/\endgraf in \color_group_end:/\color@endgroup?

@Skillmon that wouldn't do the same. The \set@color ensures that the savebox picks up the current color:

\documentclass[]{article}
\usepackage{color}
\newsavebox\mybox
\begin{document}
\color{red}
\sbox\mybox{some text}

\color{green}
\usebox\mybox


\makeatletter
\long\def\sbox#1#2{\setbox#1\hbox{%
  \color@begingroup#2\color@endgroup}}

\color{red}
\sbox\mybox{some text}

\color{green}
\usebox\mybox

\end{document}

@Skillmon I haven't looked at the details of the l3 colour support for a couple of decades and probably @JosephWright has changed it all anyway:-) But the \endgraf is sort of vital, you see same in color.sty \def\color@endgroup{\endgraf\endgroup} it doesn't matter for \setbox0\hbox but if you do \setbox0\vbox you have to be careful as \setbox0\vbox{\centering hello} is centred but \setbox0\vbox{{\centering hello}} is not but \setbox0\vbox{{\centering hello\endgraf}} is

@DavidCarlisle that sounds logical.

@Skillmon ah yes so I was concentrating on "colour safety" ie not trashing the stack, and for that you need (just) extra groups, the other issuethat @UlrikeFischer just highlighted is the design decision that an \sbox should save the current colour (just as it saves the current font) and for that you need a hidden \color{.} at the start of the box.

@UlrikeFischer thank you very much for the example showing the difference.

@DavidCarlisle seems about right.

the original (and of course best) color package didn't have a user syntax for \color{.} saving teh current color hence the internal \set@color usage you see in box saving.

@DavidCarlisle that should be only an additional \set@color in the definition of \mycolorsafebox after the \bgroup, so not that hard to add.

@DavidCarlisle do you use the original one? I think the colour mixing of xcolor is very handy...

@Skillmon I don't use tex at all, I just chat here for old time's sake:-) but the original is in my head and as you see I can chat about it easily enough but the details of how l3 or xcolor extend it I know in principle but I can't see the code without actually opening up the file:-)

Step 1: got me the Super Mario party game for Nintendo Switch. Now, I need to find wacky people to play the game with me. Step 2: find wacky people.

@DavidCarlisle you're in the L3 team, you ought to use TeX, at least to create new awesome stuff for me to play with :)

@Skillmon we could play Mario party. :)

@PauloCereda I don't own a Switch :(

@Skillmon oh I was thinking of gathering people live :)

Someday I will go to Germany

But I am afraid if with only my poor English I can survive

@PauloCereda that would be awesome :)

@PauloCereda no problem, I can understand you. Do you by any chance speak Spanish? My wife is fluent in it (I'm not).

@Skillmon ooh cool! :) Actually, Portuguese and Spanish are very different, but I can manage. :)

Hola, soy un pato!

I need the \rotatebox{180}{!} thingy...

@DavidCarlisle I need to adjust where it comes

@Skillmon I have to move the \par

@Skillmon @DavidCarlisle creates mostly repositories ...

@UlrikeFischer oi

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@DavidCarlisle oi

@UlrikeFischer but they are nice and tidy not full of lots of annoying test files

@DavidCarlisle sorry ;-) couldn't resist.

@DavidCarlisle: you probably know oi is hi in Portuguese. :)

@PauloCereda I know lots of languages

@DavidCarlisle oi

@UlrikeFischer oi

Hallo, ich bin eine erpel

Und ice cream thingy ist sehr gut

@PauloCereda Should be "Hallo, ich bin ein Erpel".

@PauloCereda "Und Eiscreme ist sehr gut"

Heute essen ich ice cream thingy

:)

@Skillmon oh articles and uppercase, sorry :)

@Skillmon ooh I got close

:)

@PauloCereda Ice cream is Eiscreme (or even just Eis)

@PauloCereda Heute esse ich Eis.

@Skillmon ooh :)

You'll learn it.

@Skillmon Thanks for the reminder

Speaking of Eis prefix, I like Eisbein. :)

And some plate that's actually Swiss and not German at all.

Wiener something.

Also, Kartoffel :)

I like reading menu options. :)

@PauloCereda Wiener Schnitzel? That's not swiss but austrian. Swiss have Rösti and Fondue.

@Skillmon They are separate for logical reasons, but I may adjust that: it's probably overkill

@UlrikeFischer ooh that one! Oh Austrian!

I once had something called Cordon Bleu which sounds suspiciously French. :)

@PauloCereda don't say that's an Austrian dish when @CarLaTeX is around, people from Milan get very cross about that:-)

@PauloCereda a menu for you:

@DavidCarlisle ooh the Austrian dish

chat.stackexchange.com/messages/39233670

@DavidCarlisle you are mean

@DavidCarlisle: I am living proof that @JosephWright really drinks tea. :)

@PauloCereda but it didn't work

@DavidCarlisle oh

there we go:-)

@DavidCarlisle Schnitzel is okay as austrian, the milanese have coteletta, that's different (we know we had it in Milan together with @Carlatex).

@DavidCarlisle oh no

I am going to have nightmares :)

@DavidCarlisle Lombardy was Austrian 150 years ago, that's why we have the cotoletta alla milanese

@PauloCereda -- i don't know "eisbein" but i'm rather fond of "eiswein". and last week i became acquainted with "pomme de glace". yum!

@UlrikeFischer they say it's different, but you take a bunch of Italians to a restaurant that serves Schnitzel and they complain that it's not Schnitzel at all and it's coteletta and should be on the menu under that name:-)

@PauloCereda Wiener is German (well technically Wien lies in Austria). Do you mean Wiener Schnitzel (piece of meat) or Wiener Würstchen (sausage)?

@barbarabeeton ooh I am getting hungry. :) I had some yogurt for dinner. :)

@DavidCarlisle coteletta should have a bone.

@CarLaTeX PANETTONE

@PauloCereda Did you ever try Sauerbraten?

@PauloCereda or Schäufele?

@UlrikeFischer stick to pineapple pizza, that way you can annoy people on either side of the border

@PauloCereda -- i had some blueberry yogurt for a mid-afternoon snack. and i'm shortly going out for a very nice anniversary dinner.

@CarLaTeX, @DavidCarlisle ^^

Panettone pizza looks good

@Skillmon oh never heard of it, let me google the dish!

@Skillmon oh this one I had once! Very tasty!

@barbarabeeton yay!

@barbarabeeton happy anniversary. :)

@PauloCereda -- thank you.

@DavidCarlisle does it annoy anyone outside italy?

@UlrikeFischer At home, we don't dare cutting the spaghetti with knife. :)

@CarLaTeX ooh

@PauloCereda ^^^ ready for Xmas

@CarLaTeX Panettone is very popular here too! :)

@PauloCereda Panettone is good!

@CarLaTeX it is!

@PauloCereda we got now Stollen, but I don't date to send one ;-(.

@UlrikeFischer ooh Stollen :)

@UlrikeFischer I might visit you someday. :)

@PauloCereda ;-) That would be great (but you can get Stollen only around Christmas).

@UlrikeFischer oh

I now get a ! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [main memory size=5000000]. error if someone uses \color within a grabbed argument, if that \color isn't inside a group. Is that considered good or bad?

@Skillmon bad:-) is that using my zzz color@reset grabber code above?

@DavidCarlisle something similar.

I'll try to create an MWE

@Skillmon ah if it's only similar then it's different so i can blame you, if it was exactly that i may worry that it was a bit fragile and untested and I may need to blame @UlrikeFischer

@DavidCarlisle good to know.

@DavidCarlisle you could create a repository and I put some test files in it ;-)

@UlrikeFischer I created 31 repositories (actually 34, but I deleted 3)

@DavidCarlisle I know, you nearly doubled my number ;-)

@UlrikeFischer I think having multiple repos was the right thing to do, I did consider having one repo and just use separate directories (as I have for dpctex) but that binds them together and here it may be that we want to find different maintainers for some of them, and if we do need to update one, can just make a build script for that without building everything. But it is a lot of repositories...

@DavidCarlisle I think it was the right decision - this way one can also easier make readme's saying e.g. the code here is outdated or not working. The stuff is really of quite different quality/use.

@DavidCarlisle was a stupid mistake made by me, forgot to gobble the \reset@color.

:-)

@UlrikeFischer you are saved from blame ^^^

@DavidCarlisle Uff. No sleepness night ahead ...

@JosephWright "look at my chair, my chair is amazing" kickstarter.com/projects/workhorsesaddlechair/…

@UlrikeFischer we can blame you for broken links at page breaks instead.

@DavidCarlisle I was only trying to move the issue away from hyperref ;-(.

@UlrikeFischer stop writing test files, things break if you test them

@UlrikeFischer or even better as it was before, have lots of test files so it looks good, but don't actually run them:-)

@DavidCarlisle I wasn't my test files - the issue was there since two years. I only made the error to check if one can close it ;-(. Which reminds me: there is also an issue that should be moved to longtable ...

@UlrikeFischer I'm sure longtable is error free

To the admins: I vote to delete my own question tex.stackexchange.com/questions/462241/textvdots-in-latex, since it is really misleading; see the answer and the comment. Unfortunately, I cannot even vote to delete my own question; the mods have to do it.

@user49915 the question seems clear enough (you can flag it if you need mod action, you can't rely (in principle) on mods seeing comments you make here)

@DavidCarlisle I falsely assumed that \vdot is not available in text mode. Flagged anyway; the mods can decide.

@user49915 the question itself is clearer than many:-) Ok there may be some false assumptions but that is normal, if people always had the right assumptions they probably would not be any questions asked:-) I thought you could always delete your own questions, but perhaps there is some rep level before you can do that (although I have never tried, for obvious reasons...)

@DavidCarlisle Thx!

@DavidCarlisle are you planing an oberdiek update in the next days? There are still the two issue branches open which need to be merged.

@UlrikeFischer yes and yes, I'll merge them (unless you want to?) but not tonight