TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2017-10-12

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1:18 AM

Anyone here?

1:50 AM

@AlanMunn Nobody.

@cfr :) Care to explain kvoptions to me?

Actually I'm only partially serious. I do have a question about it, however.

@AlanMunn I never understood it. I'm on record as saying I found it completely unintelligible. What's the question? If it is, 'is kvoptions intelligible?' I can probably answer it.

@AlanMunn Do you know if there is any way to make the site text bigger? It was fine on my old laptop, but now it is like reading ant trails from planetary orbit.

@cfr So I have a string option with three values. I use \DeclareStringOption[symbol]{authnote} which will create a macro \PRE@authnote with value 'symbol' when used. But I need to do different things dependent on the value, so whats's the best way to do that?

@cfr You can always just use zoom in/out in your browser? I use Firefox, and that's mapped to command-+ and command-- respectively.

@AlanMunn Switch to l3keys.

@AlanMunn It just seems hackish for no reason. The site content is this little strip in the middle surrounded by all this white space.

@cfr But that requires wrapping my head around l3 syntax.

2:05 AM

@AlanMunn Thanks, though.

@AlanMunn Which is infinitely easier than kvoptions.

@AlanMunn Can't you just test the value in whatever way you normally would?

@cfr I guess so. I guess what I want is something like a string-boolean option but that doesn't exist.

2 hours later…

4:19 AM

@AlanMunn I don't really understand what that means. Two possible values?

@cfr It's ok. I figured out how to do it. What I meant was something like option=foo would set \PRE@footrue while option=bar would set \PRE@bartrue. So a key value option would set booleans instead of just assigning a value to a macro.

4 hours later…

7:57 AM

@egreg a tick well deserved!

@AlanMunn Sounds like a choice key to me

8:14 AM

@DavidCarlisle I even upvoted it! But I felt worthy adding some more reasons.

user image

@egreg ^^

though it often breaks pages to some extent

^@cfr re page zooming

There is specialized software for the short-sighted that apparently does better. I've been meaning to look into it.

Hello!! I am writing a file in greek and I want to add the bibliography. I used an extra file mybibliography.bib and wrote in main.tex the following:

\bibliographystyle{plain}
\begin{otherlanguage}{english}
\bibliography{mybibliography}
\end{otherlanguage}

At the pdf the title of bibliography is "References". Could I change it to "Βιβλιογραφία" ?

37

Q: Renaming the bibliography page using BibTeX

Is there a way to rename (or do away with the name of) the bibliography page that is output using BibTeX? If so, is the name dependent on the bibliographystyle, or is it something inherent within the BibTeX functionality?

bibliographies naming

After an unreasonable amount of fiddling (like probably days all told).
I finally have scrnote-layer work to allow my normal float's captions to be in the margins.
And having figures in the margins with their captions immediately below them (as compared to having the captions in a separate `\makenote*`).
The key trick was updated to a very new version of komascript, and mostly gronking how the caption package actually works.

8:31 AM

@LyndonWhite I tried \renewcommand{\refname}{Whatever floats your boat} but nothing changed. Do I have to use also a usepackage or something else?

idk I've not done this, I was just linking to that answer,

@MaryStar what did you want \begin{otherlanguage}{english} to do if not switch the fixed texts to english?

@DavidCarlisle The books, i.e., the content of mybibliography.bib is in english

Do I not have to use \begin{otherlanguage}{english} ? @DavidCarlisle

@MaryStar well probably setting \refname (after the switch to english) but it could be \bibname or it may be hard-coded in the class as References and you have to redefine \thebibliography you have given no information

@MaryStar what "error message" does \show\thebibliography produce

@DavidCarlisle should I write that instead of \bibliography{mybibliography} ?

8:46 AM

Yay, holiday!

@MaryStar no just add it before then (and it will show if it uses \refname or \bibname or anything else

@barbarabeeton I would suggest a combination of (2) and (3) (depending on who is considered to be the audience). Mention that using framed formulas is by some people considered bad style, but if one wants to do it anyway, the package framed could be useful (I don't know if there are other packages for that, even more useful).

@DavidCarlisle It doesn't give any error message

@barbarabeeton tcolorbox is probably better (and certainly more actively maintained) than framed, but I'm not sure AMS publications could cope with equations in red oval shaped boxes with faded colour backgrounds.....

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle 'Decorated' boxes (or coffins) are on my 'to do' list ;)

8:50 AM

@barbarabeeton I suggest that you add \mathrm and \mathscr in the table. I agree with @DavidCarlisle that rsfs looks nicer, so I would use that one in the table. But still mention euler in the text as a common alternative.

@MaryStar \show\thebibliography always stops tex with a fake error showing the definition of the command.

@JosephWright flowers on top suitable decoration.

@DavidCarlisle Links to colour, really: I'm wondering about coloured/framed boxes, and whether they should be seen as such or handled by having an 'end of coffin' hook that can 'go back' and apply such formatting ...

@DavidCarlisle Links to page colour: one could argue both it and box colour should be a single background' colour and the detail handled by the back end

Do you not mean the following:

\bibliographystyle{plain}
\begin{otherlanguage}{english}
\show\thebibliography
\bibliography{mybibliography}
\end{otherlanguage}

?

@JosephWright page colour is best handed as a background colour in the backend, but box backgrounds you probably have to model as "foreground" colours of a tex-drawn (or i suppose potentially back end drawn) rule don't you?

@MaryStar yes exactly: what does the log say

@DavidCarlisle Need to think about it :)

@DavidCarlisle I suspect that page colour in the end is best viewed separately from box colour

@DavidCarlisle See for example xxcolor (in the TikZ manual) for some 'fun' with background colours (do they modify the foreground!)

8:57 AM

Do you mean this part:

> \thebibliography=\long macro:
#1->\section *{\refname }\@mkboth {\MakeUppercase \refname }{\MakeUppercase \re
fname }\list {\@biblabel {\@arabic \c@enumiv }}{\settowidth \labelwidth {\@bibl
abel {#1}}\leftmargin \labelwidth \advance \leftmargin \labelsep \@openbib@code
\usecounter {enumiv}\let \p@enumiv \@empty \renewcommand \theenumiv {\@arabic
\c@enumiv }}\sloppy \clubpenalty 4000 \@clubpenalty \clubpenalty \widowpenalty
4000\sfcode `\.\@m .
l.210 \show\thebibliography

@JosephWright yes that was original model but depends a bit how you model framed style breakable boxes as they can be viewed as changing the page background mid-page

@MaryStar yes exactly. So that shows it is using \refname so add a definition of \refname in Greek in place of the \show command.

@DavidCarlisle I'll add some stuff to the colour experiments, then we can talk about it :) (First I want to deal with some other aspects, most notably ensuring spot colours work)

@JosephWright and split footnotes will cause you sleepless nights:-)

Can someone please explain me this answer? Maybe @wipet himself?

@DavidCarlisle That's probably one best handled by LuaTeX ;)

9:01 AM

@JosephWright when it's not segfaulting

@DavidCarlisle :)

You mean like that:

\bibliographystyle{plain}
\begin{otherlanguage}{english}
\refname{Βιβλιογραφία}
\bibliography{mybibliography}
\end{otherlanguage}

or not?

It gives some errors, all in the form like:

LaTeX Error: Command \textBeta unavailable in encoding OT1.

@DavidCarlisle ooh segfault

@MaryStar well yes you are in english so a greek word needs to be something like \textgreek{Βιβλιογραφία} or whatever the babel/polyglossia syntax is

Now it gives no error but the result is the following:

9:07 AM

@PauloCereda they claim it's user error, Although I don't think a segfault should ever be user error:(

user image

@DavidCarlisle agreed.

@MaryStar Did you use \refname{\textgreek{Βιβλιογραφία}}?

@JosephWright Yes, I tried also \refname{\foreignlanguage{greek}{Βιβλιογραφία}} but I get the same

@PauloCereda although it depends really, some of the lua callbacks allow you to re-arrange the pointers in the node tree representation of tex's data, so if you mess that up it can crash, but still ...

@MaryStar you have been on the site long enough to know that no one can debug disconnected fragments. If you had posted a small complete document someone would have made it work by now.

9:11 AM

@DavidCarlisle Perhaps the debug/core information should be easily accessible. Points in which you have potential user intervention have to have some sort of recovery mode, or at least a clear indication of what you have done.

@MaryStar with \def (or \newcommand) in front? your image looks like you simply evaluated \refename before the bibliography rather than defining it.

@PauloCereda you must be kidding, it's hard enough to trace the lua at the best of times and when it segfaults then....

@DavidCarlisle Ahh!! With \def it works!! Thank you so much!!

@MaryStar which is what I said to use at the start:-)

@DavidCarlisle Nah. :) In other news, most of the CS curricula in here got rid of compiler construction techniques... This is disturbing...

@DavidCarlisle Hard time I had when I got the arara error with no apparent cause. :) I had to trace every third party library in order to find what happened and provide a quick fix. :)

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle In this PDF at page 3, can you see why I want no indentation at 二: but do want to start a new line?

9:32 AM

@PauloCereda Well, have you already run eclipse with Java 9?

@VincentMiaEdieVerheyen no, not really.

@TeXnician no, I do not like Eclipse. :) Does it work?

@VincentMiaEdieVerheyen if the new line is for a new paragraph then you should use a blank line in the source, if it is just a forced newline within a paragraph then you should use \\ it isn't clear which case you are in (as I can not read the text) but in either case I do not see why the issue in your question arises.

@PauloCereda Well, yes after you switch back to Java 8. They have a problem with their startup splash screen which shall be fixed in the next version...

@TeXnician ouch, that's bad, given that it should be the Java IDE. :)

9:47 AM

@PauloCereda The good thing is that nobody requires Java 9 yet...

@TeXnician I only require Java 5. :)

@TeXnician because they're all using C# :-)

@PauloCereda In past I made fun of computer science contests every time by requiring the latest and greatest version of a programming language in my programs (mostly only one feature, e.g. PHP 7s ??). I do not know whether those programs were tested even once (they also had the sources)...

@DavidCarlisle Who?

@TeXnician oh. :)

@DavidCarlisle C# really? :D

@PauloCereda we see a lot more C# here than Java (although we see both)

9:51 AM

@PauloCereda For the last one I wondered whether to write the program using expl3, but I then decided in favour of Java (didn't know I couldn't use Java 9 to that extent).

@DavidCarlisle Well, big German companies are also trusting C# (even the MS version)...

@TeXnician yes that's what I mean, clients come to us with code in all sorts of languages, but the big companies that we deal with tend to use more C# (from windows .net) than java

@TeXnician To be fair, I like the functional style of Java 8, but I already did something along those lines with previous versions, not less verbose as the real thing. :)

@DavidCarlisle Really not my cup of tea, although I know the language.

@PauloCereda What I really love are (a) the diamond operator (okay, Java 7 to be fair), (b) streams (J8) and lambda expressions (J8). Most of my programs make use of at least two of them.

@TeXnician Me too, I use the three. :) I think the diamond operator was introduced in J6.

It's quite funny to see the arara source code and don't spot the diamonds. :)

10:07 AM

@PauloCereda Looked it up, it's J7. But useful anyway.

@TeXnician Really? I stand corrected then. :)

@ChristianHupfer: Hallo! Ich bin ein Ente! :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Holiday as in 'Save ducks, eat more cows - Day' ? ;-)

:@PauloCereda: Ich bin keine Ente ...

@ChristianHupfer oh no

@ChristianHupfer religious holiday today, patroness of Brazil. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Ah, I see...

@ChristianHupfer :)

Christian Hupfer

10:23 AM

@PauloCereda Isn't it also the 'Praise all mean Germans day', today, world wide? ;-)

@ChristianHupfer ooh

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda I don't see or hear any praises yet.... :-(

@ChristianHupfer but you are a good German. <3

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda That's a paradox ;-)

@ChristianHupfer ooh a paradox

10:26 AM

2 days ago, by Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer you are mean

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda We Germans are mean, have no sense of humor and like verylongwordswithoutanyspaceinordertosavepaper ...

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle You have understood the concept of the 'Praise all mean Germans Day' ;-)

@ChristianHupfer David is mean :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Yes, that's true but it's not the 'Praise mean people from Manchester/Oxford Day' today.... @DavidCarlisle ;-)

@PauloCereda: s/Day/Week ;-)

10:33 AM

@ChristianHupfer ooh

Christian Hupfer

There must be another user also named wipet here... I saw a LaTeX post by this wipet from a parallel universe ;-)

Friends, I have to go, mass time. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda happy singing/praising!

@samcarter: Is there a tikzpizza package already? ;-)

@ChristianHupfer You asked the wrong person. @DavidCarlisle could probably write up one instantly putting picture mode results into nodes ;)

Christian Hupfer

@TeXnician Yes, but it would all look like pineapple pizza then....

10:40 AM

@ChristianHupfer I wouldn't guess they would look like pizzas at all (maybe like pizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzza).

2

Sep 8 at 9:11, by David Carlisle

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{color}
\begin{document}
%CarLaTeXDuck
\begin{picture}(100,100)
\put(50,50){\oval(50,20){}}
\put(70,65){\circle{20}}
\put(35,50){\line(1,0){30}}
\put(70,65){\circle*{2}}
\put(75,67){\line(6,-1){10}}
\put(75,63){\line(6,1){10}}
\put(70,42){{\color[RGB]{230,230,200}\circle*{40}}}
\put(70,42){{\color{yellow}\rule{2pt}{2pt}}}
\put(65,38){{\color{yellow}\rule{2pt}{2pt}}}
\put(66,42){{\color{yellow}\rule{2pt}{2pt}}}
\put(72,36){{\color{yellow}\rule{2pt}{2pt}}}
\put(75,42){{\color{yellow}\rule{2pt}{2pt}}}

Christian Hupfer

@TeXnician :D :D

11:11 AM

@ChristianHupfer sure :)

user image

Christian Hupfer

@samcarter That looks like a coloured xray - image of a duck that has a eaten a pizza, however ;-)

(all kinds of pizza available as long as they are Pizza Margherita)

Christian Hupfer

@samcarter That's a pretty easy menu ;-)

@ChristianHupfer If you wait a bit longer to take the X-ray, you can see the cake it had for dessert!

@ChristianHupfer For the sake of worldwide pizza peace - I wouldn't want to risk the great pineapple pizza war!

12:06 PM

user image

4

Christian Hupfer

@samcarter Sshh.... that's the pizza the name of which shall not be mentioned here ;-)

12:43 PM

@yo' or make pizza war...

@samcarter Not only Margherita, also Napoletana, prosciutto e funghi, 4 formaggi, 4 stagioni, salsiccia e friarielli... everything except strange things like fruits or ice creams!

@CarLaTeX Or with fancy names. Yesterday my pizza was called Vivaldi: tomato sauce, mozzarella, brie cheese, porcini mushrooms, and prosciutto crudo at the top just before serving.

1:06 PM

@egreg Of course!

1:34 PM

I think wasting a box is a price worth paying to use documented latex commands:-)

2:31 PM

@DavidCarlisle Nice finding after the lecture. ;-)

user image

I AM FAMOUS

@egreg I'm sure Vivaldi would order pineapple on his pizza.

@PauloCereda no Dr is famous, you are not even mentioned.

@DavidCarlisle oh

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda "Dr. Who"? ;-)

2:41 PM

@ChristianHupfer ooh

@PauloCereda :D You can add that to being on the editorial board of a predatory journal.

@AlanMunn ooh recognition at its finest :)

@egreg See this is what I don't get. Brie on a pizza? Surely this should be forbidden. Brie isn't even Italian. Your pizza 'rules' have no rhyme or reason.

@AlanMunn Brie isn't even a cheese!

/runs

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Time for the Cheese Shop Sketch ....

2:47 PM

@ChristianHupfer Je vous en brie :)

@PauloCereda LOL

/ba dum tss

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda :D :D

@PauloCereda That was pretty gouda.

@AlanMunn LOLOLOL

Christian Hupfer

2:48 PM

@PauloCereda With Swiss accent: I want to buy some cheese ;-)

@ChristianHupfer With some blokes playing instrument in the background. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Aren't there some dancers as well, performing a Sirtaki, the fake 'traditional' Greek dance

@ChristianHupfer or some sort of Riverdance. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Greek Riverdance ;-)

3:05 PM

@ChristianHupfer I think this discussion is a bit cheesy. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Let's Roque for it ;-)

@ChristianHupfer ooh

3:29 PM

@AlanMunn It matches the mushrooms

@egreg Just like the pineapple matches the ham. ;-)

@DavidCarlisle ^^^^ I think we've discovered the slippery slope!

@AlanMunn in the spirit of the above puns I offer

user image

3:45 PM

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Mum is going to prepare a pizza for dinner tonight! :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda The recursive Pizza one? I.e. Pizza on top of pizza on top of pizza ....

@ChristianHupfer ooh infinite pizza

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Pizza Mathematica ;-)

@AlanMunn And ham is not the same thing as Italian prosciutto crudo. :-P

4:04 PM

@egreg Irrelevant detail.

@AlanMunn Have you ever tasted some “real ham” made in Parma or S. Daniele? :-P

@AlanMunn ham's the natural thing and prosciutto is the processed thing, sort of like spam, that's what he means

@egreg I totally agree

@egreg Of course. It's just a minor detail with respect to the predicate 'matches pineapple'.

4:53 PM

@DavidCarlisle, @egreg SVN <-> Git nearly sorted: just have to work out all of the old user names ...

5:09 PM

> If you are unfortunate enough to be working with a GNATS bug tracking system, this module will help you convert raw text to JSON objects.

@JosephWright LOL

@JosephWright gnats has served us well:-)

@JosephWright the 2e svn?

@DavidCarlisle Yup

@JosephWright Oh I didn't catch that bit I thought you were just moving gnats, but it makes sense so much stuff is there already, live mirror like the expl3 or just move the lot to github?

@DavidCarlisle Live mirror

@DavidCarlisle I need to check on one email address for the Git mapping

@DavidCarlisle Public 2e SVN actually is less tricky than the L3 one as it's only a partial history (so no change of user names)

5:24 PM

@JosephWright OK (although now we're all more or less up to speed with git killing the mirror would be a possibility) (I must say I always only use the l3 svn, as I have it checked out and don't check out the git version but switching wouldn't be an issue)

5:35 PM

corriere.it/cronache/17_ottobre_12/…

@DavidCarlisle I hope you can Google translate it ^^^

@CarLaTeX I need no help reading such a simple language:-) 2 hours a week eating pizza. I'm not sure I could eat that much pineapple.

6:04 PM

@DavidCarlisle LOL

6:20 PM

@DavidCarlisle Still have to do a conversion plus we need to keep e.g. Javier happy

@DavidCarlisle Speaking of that, I need to see what happens with our branches: they are in a non-standard location

@JosephWright what's a standard location?

@DavidCarlisle /branches/<name> (for branches) or /tag/<name> (for tags) :)

@egreg see what happens if people rely on unreliable documentation tex.stackexchange.com/questions/395876/…

@DavidCarlisle I think SVN's time is limited, I have to agree

@JosephWright babel is more or less separate in practice anyway.

6:44 PM

@DavidCarlisle Sure, but it's currently in the same repo as everything else

@JosephWright yes but if you moved everything to github and killed svn, babel could be forked off and moved elsewhere if javier's not keen on github but anyway whatever makes sense to you, as you say the initial part of converting the stuff to git needs to be done in anycase

@DavidCarlisle Sure: I could do the same as for l3build and 'extract' the history

@JosephWright speaking of branches, if this utf8 stuff is going to percolate small changes everywhere it might be best to do it on a branch, in svn or wait until it's in git and branch or fork the repo or something there?

@DavidCarlisle Can I get the mirror set up, then we can do it

@JosephWright yes I've got plenty to do without that so no rush:-)

6:52 PM

@DavidCarlisle I'd agree that a branch makes sense

@DavidCarlisle Are our various non-trunk directories tags or branches? I can map to Git whichever way

@DavidCarlisle subgit.com/branches-mapping.html :)

7:28 PM

Hi All, I'm hoping someone might be able to quickly point out a mistake I might be making when using the answer to this question :tex.stackexchange.com/questions/139139/…

As far as I can tell, the answer listed doesn't work anymore with a newer version of Pandoc as a couple of comments have pointed out.

@JosephWright tags effectively (just snapshots with no edits on that copy)

8:06 PM

@DavidCarlisle Bad line connection

@egreg excuses

8:36 PM

@DavidCarlisle Cool

@JosephWright gitreports.com :-) (perhaps if non-user issues becomes an issue)

9:05 PM

Is it a bad idea to use a tikzpicture environment inside of the output routine? You know, to place things absolutely on the page?

It can accidentally trigger everypar, but I was wondering if there's any other things that could go horribly wrong

@AGoldMan should be OK it's all local settings

9:36 PM

@DavidCarlisle git clone ssh://comedy.dante.de/serv/latex-project/svn/latex2e-public :)

@DavidCarlisle Not sure I have the tags right just yet, plus need to check with Javier about a 'public' email address

@DavidCarlisle I think one can make multiple Git repos from one SVN using Subgit (as SVN tends to bigger combined repos), but I suspect any split for us is best handled after-the-fact (as for l3build)

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