7:56 AM
@JosephWright Seems a bit of mod attention is needed. tex.stackexchange.com/users/116472/amorris
Thanks

8:41 AM
Morning @DavidCarlisle

@JosephWright morning, hope you didn't mind my etex change;-)

@DavidCarlisle Enjoying the UK-TUG spam?

@JosephWright I shall be asking for money later:-)

@DavidCarlisle Did wonder

@JosephWright I think to support tex education we should get a pound per tick:-)

8:51 AM
Quakc. :)

9:04 AM
@PauloCereda Morning

@JosephWright Hi! :)

9:44 AM
@PauloCereda @JosephWright How was the meeting?

@egreg I did well, except the part I answered questions. :)

9:58 AM
@PauloCereda “Any questions?" says the chairperson. “I have one,” says an esteemed member of the audience, “When will you finish your thesis?”
6

@egreg LOL
@egreg I did mentioned my thesis. :)

@PauloCereda Assuming the esteemed member I'm referring to was not fast asleep.

@egreg :)

@PauloCereda along with Schrödinger's cat and other mythical objects

@DavidCarlisle awww you were watching! <3

10:01 AM
@DavidCarlisle Were there unicorns?

@egreg There was a beagle and Scooby Doo.

@egreg no but apparently the highlight of 30 years of tex contributions is a recursive macro to typeset x^{x^x} :(

@DavidCarlisle Indeed, the best you can provide.

@DavidCarlisle oh no
@David: @egreg was mentioned too!

@egreg apparently, but now at least after the last checkin to the latex sources, lualatex can keep up with my linguistic abilities

10:04 AM
@PauloCereda About forgotten %?

@egreg xpatch :)

@egreg l3 regex patch thing
-\def\newlanguage  {\e@alloc\language \chardef{\count19}\m@ne\@cclvi}
\let\newfam\new@mathgroup
+%    \end{macrocode}
+%
+% \changes{v2.3a}{2016/10/16}{Allow languages up to 16383 in luatex}
+%    \begin{macrocode}
+\ifx\directlua\@undefined
+  \def\newlanguage  {\e@alloc\language \chardef{\count19}\m@ne\@cclvi}
+\else
+  \def\newlanguage  {\e@alloc\language \chardef{\count19}\m@ne{16384}}
+\fi

@DavidCarlisle Still fewer languages than you master.

@egreg Tra cui l'italiano, naturalmente.

10:29 AM
First video (@PauloCereda's) uploaded: vimeo.com/187525063
I'm going to have to re-record my own one, but that should also be done today

10:50 AM
PANIC: unprotected error in call to Lua API ((null))
Aborted (core dumped)
@JosephWright ^^ :-)

@DavidCarlisle Ooops
@DavidCarlisle Run away?

@JosephWright actually it might be a documented feature
"Messing too much can push LuaTEX into panic mode."

11:13 AM
@PauloCereda At the 9:00 mark you could have written “This is not a dog” à la Magritte. ;-)

11:28 AM
The review comments are sometimes ridiculous. As a new user, i would probably be startled. tex.stackexchange.com/a/334331/37907

12:20 PM
@JosephWright oh no! :)
@egreg ooh :)
@egreg: there's a ragtime background sound. :)

well-[5]be-[100]ing baby-[5]sit-[100]ter bank-[5]roll carry-[5]all com-[100]mon-[5]place dish-[5]wa-[100]ter
@JosephWright ^^^ showhyphens with varying penalties:-)

@DavidCarlisle Oooh

@JosephWright I only made luatex dump core about 50 times (it's not very forgiving in this area:-)

@DavidCarlisle Odd that

12:48 PM
@PauloCereda Going a bit further; how many levels can you interpret this at? VVVV

1:45 PM
My talk's ready to upload, but the license I've got for the recording software seems to be not working :(
@DavidCarlisle, @StefanKottwitz, @PauloCereda Forgot to press 'record' actually during the meeting, so I've had to re-record!

@JosephWright faking records of meetings is probably a criminal offence

@DavidCarlisle Thanks a lot!

2:40 PM
@DavidCarlisle I am thinking about asking the committee for some cash to get a better set up (VGA capture, etc.)

@PauloCereda I just watched your talk. It was very good :-)

@DavidCarlisle Seen mails from Chris?

Hi @JosephWright. Any chance I could ask you a quick question about biblatex? Or anyone else? 😊

@AdamLiter You can ask ...

2:47 PM
It's about this comment:
Thanks for the help! I am not sure but should the behaviour of biblatex be regarded as a bug? — maetra Dec 29 '13 at 13:47

@JosephWright no, looking...

In authoryear-comp.cbx, the delimiter for citations from the same author with the same year is hard coded as a comma.
But this seems like what \compcitedelim is supposed to do, based on my understanding of the manual (which may well be wrong).

@AdamLiter Certainly \compcitedelim is there: I'd have to work on it a bit to be sure what exactly is 'expected'

But it is hard coded on line 36 of authoryear-comp.bx and on line 58 and on line 75 (and maybe others that I'm missing).
Do you think it's worth opening a bug report on GitHub? At the very least, it might help to clarify in the manual what \compcitedelim is supposed to do, if this is the intended behavior.

@AdamLiter Ah, the cases are different: a comma is forced when you get the 'a,b' business but not if you are compressing more complex situations

2:52 PM
Yes.
So \compcitedelim occurs between the same author but with different years.

@AdamLiter Yes

And you get \addcomma with the same author and the same year.
It just seems odd that that is hard coded.

@AdamLiter I think the argument is that a space or similar would be out-and-out misleading with the 'a,b' case

And the description of \compcitedelim in the manual is "Similar to \multicitedelim, but used by certain citation styles when ‘compressing’ multiple citations. The default definition is a comma plus an interword space."

@AdamLiter The labels are 'XXXXa' and 'XXXb' being compressed to 'XXXXa,b', so there is no logical place for a space

2:54 PM
@JosephWright That's a fair point, but it still seems odd that you cannot change it to a semicolon very easily, for example.

@JosephWright replied:-)

@DavidCarlisle :)

3:15 PM
I love the authors, they are sometimes "very clever". This attitude so annoys me.
Dear Tom,

I have made some observation while using your document class.

I noticed that I had some accented letters in the references of my document and so I need the \RequirePackage[utf8]{inputenc}, which I included for seamless typesetting.

I have included the following packages in your document class for improved typeseting of scientific articles:
\RequirePackage[version=4]{mhchem} for chemical symbols and equation
\RequirePackage{siunitx} for SI units
\RequirePackge{multirow} for float environment.
I mean, what the f%^&* he thinks he is?! Especially with multirow?!

Anybody interested in the wikibook and LaTeX is invited to leave an opinion. en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Talk:LaTeX/…

3:33 PM
@DavidCarlisle Trying to draft a reply to the latest team list mail ...

(sorry, I had to vent the anger so that my reply to his mail is not too rude)

@yo' Many people conflate 'what I do/think is useful' and 'what everyone needs'
3

@JosephWright ... and 'what is right'

Thanks for the help and discussion, @JosephWright. I appreciate it! I'm heading out. Hope everyone has a great day. :)

@JosephWright ptex....

3:41 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yes, but that's OK as there is e-pTeX

@JosephWright hmm, presumably there is a reason for having two versions (why isn't there an ejtex? i suppose we should ask...)

@DavidCarlisle I have a feeling the bit where it last went to CTAN about 1995 and isn't in TeX Live or MiKTeX might be a giveaway
@DavidCarlisle I see David K has put things in his own style

@JosephWright yes but If it's in Akira's builds I'd have thought it was pretty well maintened, or perhaps he just compiles teh source unseen

@DavidCarlisle You might enjoy JF's post to the EduTeX list today

@JosephWright :-)
@JosephWright I doubt it

3:46 PM
@DavidCarlisle That is true, and suggests there's a reason it's not in TeX Live (as he does the Win binaries)
> By nature, I might be more a visionary than a pragmatist.

draft of my reply (hope it's not too offensive):
Dear professor ABC,
thanks for your observations. However, packages used only by people from a specific scientific community shan't be included in a general class like this one. As for multirow, I consider its usage a deadly sin. As for inputenc, the class works without it for many people.

I would like to ask you not to distribute any modified copy of actapoly.cls.

Sincerely,

@yo' Not if you know LaTeX. I would be offended as well.
@yo' What you really should include is that one package only linguistics needs. Thought would be necessary.

@yo' “The choice of the packages automatically loaded by the class was well pondered and we decided not to include packages that only benefit a specific scientific community. For other packages the situation is different: we recommand, for stylistic reasons, not to use multirow; inputenc should instead always be a document-specific choice.”

@yo' Imho the main problem with inputenc would be that the class will no longer work for people who use another encoding.

@egreg Sounds good.

4:00 PM
@yo' On the other hand, I use to say that I've never seen a table using \multirow that cannot be improved by removing it to begin with.

@JosephWright Will the workshop talk Jonathan mentioned on Edutex be available as well? Can you ping me when it is available?

@egreg well, that why I use stronger language when speaking about multirow
@egreg another thing is, I try to limit the number of loaded packages to the bare minimum required to make the class work smoothly

4:19 PM
@Johannes_B I have the audio: I'll need to listen back and make a decision (@PauloCereda's talk is online, I'll do mine and @StefanKottwitz's during the week)

@JosephWright Take your time. I already watched @Paulo's talk. It was good.

@yo' That's taken care of by “well pondered”.

4:33 PM
@Johannes_B The discussion is quite easy for me to do: probably later today

@JosephWright not much of it was on topic though

@DavidCarlisle True
@DavidCarlisle Thought I stayed on-topic :)

4:57 PM
@yo' Yes, this is really the key. The class shouldn't load any packages that aren't required for providing the functionality of the class.
@egreg Too subtle... :)
@Johannes_B And the best one for that would be gb4e which makes _ and ^ active in text mode. Much fun will ensue.

@AlanMunn :-)

5:32 PM
@egreg ooh
@JosephWright oh no
@Johannes_B ooh <3

@PauloCereda Just need to sort out a Camtasia license to do the export (we have one at work but apparently it doesn't work with the latest release!)

@JosephWright Oh my!

@DavidCarlisle For once Chris is not the most opaque person on the list :)
@PauloCereda I might simply do it at work: on my desktop I have got it working

@JosephWright you can send a clarifying overview:-)

1 hour later…
6:46 PM
User pings me asking for help, i write a comment. Question is deleted while typing. That's new.

7:04 PM
@DavidCarlisle Not new anymore. And i didn't even read the messages. :-)

7:48 PM
The default page numbering in footer is like "125". But I want to make it "-125-". How to do that?

@manetsus it depends how you defined the footer, if using fancyhdr just define the foot to be ---\thepage---

@JosephWright Oh, in what context?

@DavidCarlisle how to do that? I just wrote \pagenumbering{Roman}.

@manetsus why don't you give any clues over what you have eg at the very least what document class you are using with \usepackage{fancyhdr} probably just \cfoot{---\thepage---}

@DavidCarlisle again I am sorry, I just forget this. \documentclass[a4paper,oneside,11pt]{report}

8:00 PM
@manetsus that should work then, see the fancyhdr package doc for more options

@DavidCarlisle unfortunately it is not working.

@manetsus you did something wrong then, but since only you have seen the code impossible to guess perhaps you are using plain style see section 7 the example there is
\fancypagestyle{plain}{%
\fancyhf{} % clear all header and footer fields
\fancyfoot[C]{\textbf{\thepage}} % except the center
\renewcommand{\headrulewidth}{0pt}
\renewcommand{\footrulewidth}{0pt}}
but you just want ---\thepage--- not \textbf

@DavidCarlisle Thanks for the snippet. but it is working for some pages and for some other pages, it is not working. I added the snippet in preamble

8:15 PM
@manetsus aren't the pages where it doesn't work pages where chapters start? (just a guess, I can't even dig into the problem as I got to go)
night, everybody!

@yo' Actually it is working for pages where chapters started!

@manetsus well in that case it's because you have only defined the plain style (which is the default page style) but you are using a different page style on other pages, probably headings but why make us guess

@DavidCarlisle I see normal service with Chris is resumed

@manetsus naturally, David's code is changing plain-style, you should also change the fancy style for the other pages. And you should learn to show complete examples -- you will get better and faster solutions.

@UlrikeFischer \cleardoublepage\pagenumbering{arabic} could it change the plain-style?
or this '\setlength{\footskip}{28mm}
\setcounter{secnumdepth}{5}'?

8:25 PM
@manetsus I won't help you unless you give a complete example.

@manetsus what is the point of doing a gradual reveal? just make a small 6-line document that has the problem and ask a question on site with a complete example document

@DavidCarlisle okay, I understood. Thanks.
This has the same problem:
\documentclass[a4paper,oneside,11pt]{report}

\usepackage{fancyhdr}
\fancypagestyle{plain}{%
\fancyhf{} % clear all header and footer fields
\fancyfoot[C]{---\thepage---} % except the center
\renewcommand{\headrulewidth}{0pt}
\renewcommand{\footrulewidth}{0pt}}
\usepackage{lipsum}

\begin{document}
\pagenumbering{gobble}
\lipsum[0]
\pagenumbering{Roman}
\addcontentsline{toc}{section}{Abstract}
\lipsum[1]
\newpage
\addcontentsline{toc}{section}{Acknowledgement}
\lipsum[2]

adding
\pagestyle{fancy}
\cfoot{---\thepage---}
@manetsus will put you on the right track, probably

@DavidCarlisle but it brings the chapter names etc in the header

8:43 PM
@manetsus You have to restate \pagestyle{plain}, so the style is updated to the new definition.
\documentclass[a4paper,oneside,11pt]{report}

\usepackage{fancyhdr}
\usepackage{lipsum}

\fancypagestyle{plain}{%
\fancyhf{}% clear all header and footer fields
\fancyfoot[C]{---\thepage---}% except the center
\renewcommand{\headrulewidth}{0pt}%
\renewcommand{\footrulewidth}{0pt}%
}
\pagestyle{plain}

\begin{document}
\pagenumbering{gobble}
\lipsum[0]
\clearpage
\pagenumbering{Roman}
\addcontentsline{toc}{section}{Abstract}
\lipsum[1]
\clearpage
\addcontentsline{toc}{section}{Acknowledgement}
@manetsus Remember to add \clearpage before any \pagenumbering command; in general \clearpage is better than \newpage.

@egreg oh, it works, thanks a lot for all of your effort.
@egreg could I safely remove \newpage adding \clearpage instead?

@manetsus You see, it needs someone who knows LaTeX.
@manetsus Yes, I changed all of them, I believe.

@egreg Obviously. I owed to you people a lot :)

@egreg who could that be?

@egreg the new one is bringing an extra "-" in pages where I did not start numbering. I meant gobble pages

8:55 PM
@manetsus Of course it will. In general I discourage \pagenumbering{gobble}. Just use \pagestyle{empty} for the part where you want nothing added and \pagenumbering{Alph} (which will keep hyperref happy, in case you load it).

@egreg do you know where this pagenumbering{gobble} comes from, i seem to see it all the time in examples?
@egreg That is I know where it's defined but there must be some tutorial suggesting it.

@egreg There are a lot of thing to learn from you people. Respect. It is working exactly as I wanted. I have no word to express thanks.
@DavidCarlisle I did it in march. So, I found the tutorial at that time.

@DavidCarlisle I happened to see it without really having seen it in guides.

@manetsus it's a trick definition that was never intended: it just works by accident due to details of the implementation,

9:13 PM
@DavidCarlisle I blame the Britons

Nov 26 '15 at 12:44, by Joseph Wright
@egreg Blame Robin
@egreg @manetsus "use the rather delightful \pagenumbering{gobble};" is UK english for I shouldn't be telling you to do this!!! :-)