TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Pedro Tamaroff

1:00 AM

@DavidCarlisle Hello?

cfr

@PedroTamaroff I don't think he is here :(.

What is the best way to respond to a series of questions such as this one?

-1

Q: How to make the beautiful Research Proposal in LaTeX?

How to make the Research Proposal in LaTeX and in the end want to make the Thesis Time Schedule up to 4-year means 2015-2019. \documentclass[12pt]{article} %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% \usepackage{pgfgantt} \newganttchartelement*{mymilestone}{ mymilestone/.style={ shape=...

I can't help but suspect that this user is just taking the piss... ;).

Joseph Wright

5:58 AM

tug.org/tug2015/program.html

@cfr Probably true in this case. However, in general books don't have licenses as they don't allow reuse, but software always does. The difference between use of software and other IP is complex!

David Carlisle

7:23 AM

@cfr close as too broad (or unclear)

LaRiFaRi

7:36 AM

@ChristianHupfer Did you find out, why both versions work?

If not, I will maybe ask a question about this. Very strange, I think

Joseph Wright

8:04 AM

@egreg I see you get the keynote slot for TUG2015

egreg

@JosephWright :)

Joseph Wright

I wonder how much I'll annoy Karl when I go back to my original title for my first talk :-)

egreg

@JosephWright Or the slot in which everybody is so tired that they don't even hear the talk.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Well yes but the days are not too long

@egreg At most conferences the slot to avoid is first thing on the last day, as that's usually after the conference dinner and people can be rather 'tired'

egreg

@JosephWright Also dentists should be avoided, but today I can't. Later…

Joseph Wright

8:46 AM

@DavidCarlisle Plan to circulate LuaTeX email today

David Carlisle

9:04 AM

@JosephWright good plan.

Arthur Reutenauer

9:49 AM

@Johannes_B You mean public domain. In most countries, it’s not possible to put something in the public domain (the - notable - exceptions are the US and the UK). It’s either in the public domain because the requisite number of years has elapsed since its creation or the author’s death, or someone holds the copyright on it (not necessarily the original author, of course). Hence if you want your work to be usable in distributions, you need to put it under a licence.

Joseph Wright

@ArthurReutenauer Most places with common law as their basis have PD, not just the UK/US

Johannes_B

@ArthurReutenauer Our nice moderator already informed me on that :-)

Arthur Reutenauer

@Johannes_B For that reason, some distributions do refuse software if it’s not under some licence. There are licences that mean “free use for everyone” (basically as close to the public domain as can be), Creative Commons’ CC0 for example.

@JosephWright Yes, I was about to mention the rest of the Commonwealth :-) But most other countries have public domain as well, it’s just not possible to place one’s work in it voluntarily (I suppose that’s what you mean, but your wording was confusing).

Joseph Wright

@ArthurReutenauer Yes, I meant indeed that in places with a common law basis it is possible to surrender copyright and place works into the public domain deliberately

@ArthurReutenauer For me of course this seems perfectly natural and I find the situation in other parts of the world frankly daft

Arthur Reutenauer

@JosephWright Someone mentioned to me it may simply by lack of appropriate disposition in copyright laws.

Joseph Wright

9:54 AM

@ArthurReutenauer I don't know the detail :-)

Arthur Reutenauer

@JosephWright Which leads me to believe that in common law countries this state of things is a consequence of court cases, whose decisions then become enforced as if there were laws - which can’t happen in civil law countries.

Joseph Wright

@ArthurReutenauer Could be. What I know is that copyright is a state-granted artificial monopoly and therefore it seems reasonable that one can surrender it.

Arthur Reutenauer

@JosephWright All I’m saying is that we would need lawmakers - in civil law countries - to look into copyright law to insert that disposition explicitly.

@JosephWright And I would rather have them look into other things first when it comes to copyright (software patents, to start with).

Johannes_B

10:15 AM

@ArthurReutenauer I think most of the stuff i have put there isn't ready to be used by anybody. Oh, github.com/johannesbottcher/bausteineBewerbung doesn't have a license either. But a quite clear (i hope) statement in the readme. If that counts.

Arthur Reutenauer

@Johannes_B Yes, of course that can’t, but I don’t read it as a licence statement. You’re not actually saying that people can use it freely.

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Something like this simply bugs me github.com/kks32/…

@ArthurReutenauer To be honest, they shouldn't. Why should anybody use my code as an example?

;-)

Arthur Reutenauer

@Johannes_B That’s not how development works.

Johannes_B

@ArthurReutenauer I know. I am thinking of placing all the personal information/entries in a BibTeX database and have the styling done by biblatex. A user could change the CV-style quite easily, including different order of elements in the entries. But that means to some extend mirroring biblatex, as i need a different set of styles. And till i have figured out how to do this in a sane way, it is kept that way.

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B :-)

Johannes_B

10:24 AM

@ArthurReutenauer Of course, this is a tricky situation. I am not psychic, i cannot know what a user want to put. Names of fields, etcetera.

Arthur Reutenauer

@Johannes_B All I’m saying is that as soon as you put stuff on the Web you should be ready to see people use it. Whether you like it, or it’s useful for them, is irrelevant and it’s pointless to make statements like “they shouldn’t use it”.

@Johannes_B What you can - and probably should - do is to say that your code is completely unsupported and you won’t spend any time replying to questions from others.

@Johannes_B I really don’t have time to discuss that any further today (storm in a teacup in Covent Garden this week, need to do busy work on the website).

Johannes_B

@ArthurReutenauer Good idea, will add something.

@ArthurReutenauer Bye, see you soon.

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B help.github.com/articles/open-source-licensing/…

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Just wondering (as always) which license to apply.

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B lppl is good for latex stuff (although far more complicated than it was originally, to keep debian-legal happy)

Johannes_B

10:39 AM

@DavidCarlisle That makes it so strangely official github.com/johannesbottcher/bausteineBewerbung/blob/master/…

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B but your thousands of users will sleep happy in the knowledge that you are not going to prosecute them for theft of your ideas.

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Checked the traffic: 4 unique visitors from golatex, one from here and one from github. 37 views. :-)

Johannes_B

11:46 AM

0

Q: latex style file

\iffalse; awk '/S[H]ELL1/' lineno.sty|sh;exit; ... see bottom for .tex documentation ... Macro file lineno.sty for LaTeX: attach line numbers, refer to them. ...

line-numbering

What is that?

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B it's called a question, then you are supposed to answer it using the text box below. Haven't you seen how this site works?

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle I don't see a question.

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B It's got a big bold Q it must be a question:-)

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Right, fair point :-)

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B so with that cleared up, you can answer it!

Johannes_B

11:49 AM

@DavidCarlisle Unfortunately not. But i left a comment.

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B seems a day for pointless questions tex.stackexchange.com/questions/253319/… (and duplicates) tex.stackexchange.com/questions/253314/… (and duplicates)

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Seen those. Do we have a full moon right now?

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B yes: moongiant.com/moonphases/july/2015

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle O wow, it was meant as a joke :-)

Johannes_B

12:15 PM

Calling for a late answer: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/131207/… ;-)

yo'

12:28 PM

@Johannes_B I've done what I could :-)

Johannes_B

@yo' Oh, very generous :-)

yo'

@Johannes_B no, very little generous, actually :-) It's really just to draw attention

Johannes_B

@yo' There might be a duplicate question around. I haven't checked.

yo'

@Johannes_B maybe there is, but this one seems reasonable (only a MWE is missing)

Johannes_B

@ChristianHupfer Look at this: komascript.de/comment/5067#comment-5067

Paulo Cereda

1:43 PM

Quack!

egreg

@PauloCereda Quack, quack.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Yesterday the bus was shakier than the normal shaking activities. :)

Joseph Wright

@daleif did you get my message about LuaTeX things? Various people's e-mail servers don't seem to like it :-( (You are CCd due to the breqn link)

Johannes_B

in my Close-queue a question that was in my Reopen-queue about an hour ago, that was in my close-queue yesterday. Ping pong, ping ping pong.

Joseph Wright

@Johannes_B I think I know which question, and don't think the reopening was that helpful

Johannes_B

1:53 PM

@JosephWright Time schedule

egreg

@PauloCereda Also the bus I took (the same both in the morning and the evening) had a peculiar sussultatory behavior.

Joseph Wright

@Johannes_B Yes

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooh :)

egreg

@PauloCereda And it's a new one, service started in April.

Johannes_B

@JosephWright Just read, that the piece of code is some generic example found in the www, not a localized MWE to the OPs problem. Had i actually known this, i probably would have skipped that item in the reopen queue.

Sometimes i think Ulrike has some psychic powers. Or just years of experience :-)

6

egreg

1:59 PM

@PauloCereda It's of the “long” type, made of two joined pieces. There are other city buses of that kind, but the older ones have the engine in the back piece; the new ones have the engine in the front piece, so the back one is too light and it shows a typical pitching behavior.

Johannes_B

@cfr Just noticed now, that the image is missing from the time schedule Q.

@ChristianHupfer Agreed tex.stackexchange.com/questions/253253/…

daleif

@JosephWright I've got it. Wondered why. How is breqn related to this (plus I'm not involved with breqn anymore)

Joseph Wright

@daleif brenn => mathsyle = >mathtools for the \mathstyle primitive. I felt I should at lest CC you

daleif

@JosephWright \mathstyle is not related to mathtools, ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/breqn

And in that case is it because of the \@saveprimitive stuff?

Joseph Wright

2:16 PM

@daleif The bit about LuaTeX primitives: LuaTeX defines \mathstyle natively, currently moved to \luatexmathstyle in LaTeX (but not plain): second part of the mail

@daleif Like I said, I felt I should CC you: I don't want to miss anyone

daleif

@JosephWright Not a problem. So the main issue is that you want to \mathstyle into the kernel? You better make sure @WillRobertson reads it, he's the official maintainer of breqn and related packages.

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright: in a hurry right now, but expect my reply soon. :)

Joseph Wright

@daleif He already knows and he's on the CC list (latex-team address) :-)

@daleif I'll be doing the fix in any case if this goes ahead

@PauloCereda Sure

@UlrikeFischer See starred comment here!

daleif

@JosephWright But what exactly will go into the kernel/core? And what will be provided when one is not using lualatex?

Arthur Reutenauer

@PauloCereda @egreg I walked to work this morning. 8km (according to Google Maps).

egreg

2:31 PM

@ArthurReutenauer Nice walk. My walk to work would by 82.3km. ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ArthurReutenauer ooh :) In my city, everything is near everything. But if I need to walk to the University, it would take a while, about 250km. :)

Joseph Wright

2:49 PM

@daleif Current thinking is that we will enable the 'raw' name \mathstyle when LaTeX2e is loaded with LuaTeX. In breqn I'll then adjust it's \mathstyle to 1) line up with the LuaTeX numbering and b) use the primitive with LuaTeX

daleif

@JosephWright but does that mean that \mathstyle will be in the normal kernel, but do nothing unless one is using LuaTeX (or explicitly using the mathstyle package)?

Joseph Wright

@daleif No addition to the standard kernel: available with LuaTeX 'out of the box' as an added primitive, for others still dependent on breqn/mathstyle

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright ??? which comment? which star?

Joseph Wright

55 mins ago, by Johannes_B

Sometimes i think Ulrike has some psychic powers. Or just years of experience :-)

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright I wonder what I did ... I can't remember any psychic answer in the last days

Johannes_B

3:06 PM

@UlrikeFischer I am so used to grouping with braces, i forget that "<value>" is valid in bib-entries as well. You thought of that on that one c.t.t. topic. :-)

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer What if your psychic powers deliberately made you "forget" the psychic answer? After all, the brain is the most important organ in the human body... according to the brain. :)

Ulrike Fischer

@Johannes_B That wasn't psychic. I see still a lot quotes in bib-files. Beside this I'm using winedt, and everyone who has ever struggled with its "quotes inside other quotes system" never will forget to think about inner quotes.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Still a good spot: wasn't it a nested string or some such

Johannes_B

@UlrikeFischer Still, i was impressed :-)

Paulo Cereda

@Johannes_B Das Deutschepsykhpowers. :)

Johannes_B

3:12 PM

@PauloCereda :-D

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda What a language mixture. "Deutsche" is german, "powers" english, but where is "psykh" from?

Arthur Reutenauer

@UlrikeFischer Greek? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer Oh I am sorry, I try to fake German words by concatenating words in English and applying some random patterns. :)

I tried to learn German, but it was very complicated for me.

Arthur Reutenauer

Deutschψυχpowers

Paulo Cereda

I know a couple of sentences, like Ein Bier, bitte. :) If I need to ask for two beers, I try a unary system and ask for Ein ein Bier, biter. :)

@ArthurReutenauer ooh I see a pitchfork there!

Arthur Reutenauer

3:26 PM

@PauloCereda You can try “ein Bier ein Bier” too ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ArthurReutenauer ooh this is even better. :)

Arthur Reutenauer

@PauloCereda Of course, if you remember the words “und” and “noch” it’s even almost understandable.

Paulo Cereda

@ArthurReutenauer Deutsche ist sehr Komplicated for Enten. :)

Arthur Reutenauer

@PauloCereda Though I wonder what a waiter would say if they heard “ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier und noch ein Bier bitte” ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ArthurReutenauer oooh

:)

Arthur Reutenauer

3:33 PM

(That’s 21 beers; I wanted to make it 42 but got the dreaded “this message is too long”)

Paul Gessler

@PauloCereda Keine Chance! translate.google.com/#de/en/Quack!

egreg

@ArthurReutenauer Bring the barrel?

Arthur Reutenauer

@PauloCereda I’ll try it in Darmstadt. Maybe ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@PaulGessler :)

@egreg Das Bierkeg. :)

@ArthurReutenauer ooh do it. :)

Arthur Reutenauer

@egreg I was thinking of bringing a barrel, actually store.fullers.co.uk/Store/Category/45/Product/BOLPMC.aspx

Paulo Cereda

3:37 PM

Neunundneunzig Bierflaschen in der Wand, neunundneunzig Bierflaschen. Nehmen Sie eine nach unten und übergeben Sie die Bier um, achtundneunzig Bierflaschen in der Wand!

@Johannes, @Christian: ^^

Arthur Reutenauer

@PauloCereda Why is it supporting Argentina?

Paulo Cereda

@ArthurReutenauer Oh no!

I think it's a Bavarian duck. :)

Arthur Reutenauer

@PauloCereda That looks more like it :-)

Paulo Cereda

The rest of the world doesn't like me. :(

^^ Le duck. :)

Londoner duck. ^^ :)

Johannes_B

5:34 PM

@PauloCereda Ich habe soeben laut losgelacht. :-D

Sean Allred

5:47 PM

0

Q: Explain the Kile LaTeX editor feature that deletes my root file text

My LaTeX Editor (Kile) is deleting most of my root file "master.tex" with a single mouse click in the wrong area. This is when I aim my mouse poorly to get the cursor at the beginning of a line. It happens ONLY in the master.tex file, not in the input files like Preamble.tex or chapter11.tex or...

kile

Sometimes, I wonder about folks.

Johannes_B

@SeanAllred That gave me a good laugh. But if you have never seen it before.

barbara beeton

@Johannes_B -- if i saw that, i would surely panic. one more reason for me to stick with emacs, which is entirely predictable, and i never have to touch a mouse.

Johannes_B

@barbarabeeton Using the mouse her in chat to reply to a post is annoying i think. I think it is the only time i need a mouse.

Paulo Cereda

@Johannes_B :)

Paul Gessler

48

Q: SE Chat Modifications -- Keyboard navigation and commands for chat

Screenshot Use /command shortcuts to perform common chat tasks: See message history inline: Easily preview replied-to messages: And much, much more... About Legends tell of a prolific Meta Stack Overflow chatter who despised using their mouse above all things. In an effort to keep t...

script chat

:-)

Paulo Cereda

6:00 PM

Where's The 'Any' Key?

@PauloCereda <3

@SeanAllred <3

@Johannes_B Yeah, I know... still. There's a concept in user interfaces (to anything) called 'affordance'. For example, you don't need to know a door is 'push' if it has a bar or a metal plate on it -- you just kinda 'want' to push it. I've always thought the same about code folding, I guess.

Even Word has it.

Johannes_B

@SeanAllred Think about a revolving door. If you have never seen something like this before ... i guess i would be scared.

Sean Allred

@Johannes_B To be fair, a revolving door affords an idea of strictly scheduled embarrassment.

Johannes_B

6:09 PM

@SeanAllred I just replied to this using only my keyboard. You are my hero.

Sean Allred

@Johannes_B That would be @PaulGessler's credit, I believe :)

Johannes_B

@SeanAllred Oy, you are right. Thank you @PaulGessler

@PaulGessler Thanks you very very much. This is great :-)

Paul Gessler

@Johannes_B indeed, it is. :-) Great for my avoidance of mice wherever possible.

Paulo Cereda

6:48 PM

@PaulGessler Das Paulmccartneyskriptzen. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda What was the link for the design rubber ducks?

Paulo Cereda

@yo' budducks.com?

yo'

@PauloCereda ah yes, this :)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' :)

yo'

thanks :)

Paulo Cereda

7:00 PM

@yo' <3

Nasser

7:17 PM

@DavidCarlisle fyi, your recommended packages newtxtext and newtxtmath unfortunately do not work with tex4ht. I reported this to the tex4ht mailing list tug.org/pipermail/tex4ht/2015q3/001223.html it looks like these packages need special support added for them to work in tex4ht. But they made the math look really nice in pdf.

Johannes_B

The more i think about templates, the more i understand that the term template paradoxon seems to be describing the situation perfectly.

David Carlisle

@Nasser it has them for the original tx fonts /usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/tex4ht/ht-fonts/unicode/txfonts/txb.htf so presumably not hard to adapt those to the newtx ones. But to be honest I never understood why it needs per-font configuration file (rather than per encoding) you'd expect all T1 encoded fonts to be the same but it's a long while since I looked at that (certainly last millenium:-)

Nasser

@DavidCarlisle I do not know. May be someone can sort this out. I've added this to my common.tex file:
\ifdefined\HCode
\else
\usepackage{newtxtext,newtxmath} %do not use with tex4ht, errors
\fi

Johannes_B

@yo' Isn't it nice when a plan works out?

2

A: Own cls to fmt conversion

Procedure for a format, which has a class preloaded. The class is named theclass in the following. The class file Because the class is already loaded in the format, global/class options cannot be specified any longer. Configuration can be implemented by a \theclasssetup command as done by many ...

yo'

@Johannes_B I've been notified, as the owner of the bounty :-) Yep, pretty nice. It's certainly worth the useless 50 thingies :D

Johannes_B

7:32 PM

That song really creeps me out. soundcloud.com/evencemusic/…

@yo' Completely agreeing here.

yo'

7:44 PM

@JosephWright Serial upvoted, again :-(

Johannes_B

@yo' I have read all answers carefully (those i upvoted). How many did i upvote?

yo'

It's been 6 today. You don't need to do that I think.

Johannes_B

@yo' have checked, six upvotes from me :-)

@yo' That is enough to set another bounty which will encourage a user to give a great answer. ;-)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda What about the BlackForest Ducks? I've posted some picture some time ago? :-( I could buy them in any tourist shop here around.

Paulo Cereda

2

@ChristianHupfer :)

Christian Hupfer

7:55 PM

@PauloCereda: Yeah!!! I should send you a couple of them :D

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ooooh

<3

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: Just looking for the postal fee to Brazil...

yo'

@Johannes_B I've been getting enough random votes recently, so even when I don't answer, I get plenty points for bounties. Moreover, I only wanna keep 20k so that I have all the privileges, otherwise I don't give a ...

Johannes_B

@yo' I seldomly get random ups, just not enough answers yet :-)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: 13,99 Euro for a 2 kg box international ... that's ~~cheap~~ expensive ;-)

Johannes_B

7:59 PM

@ArthurReutenauer I have checked the trap. One fly ... sitting on top of the lid. I killed abot ten flies today, though i wanted them alive. :-(

barznjy

Hi, I am using TeXstudio, I have the following problem;

\documentclass[10pt,a4paper]{article}
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{amsfonts}
\usepackage{amssymb}
\usepackage{graphicx}

\begin{document}

\section{first}

\begin{figure}
\centering
\includegraphics[scale=0.41]{fig1}
\caption{Figure ONE.}
\label{fig1}
\end{figure}

\end{document

File `fig1' not found. \includegraphics[scale=0.41]{fig1}

Torbjørn T.

@barznjy And where is fig1 relative to the .tex file?

barznjy

@TorbjørnT. fig1 is an eps figure inside the same folder as the tex file

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer Indeed. :(

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda I should add some cookies -- there is some weight left I think ... :D

Paulo Cereda

8:05 PM

@ChristianHupfer Oh my, please, don't need to get into trouble sending me stuff. <3

Torbjørn T.

@barznjy Well, EPS files cannot be used directly with pdflatex, though in TeX Live they will be converted to PDF automatically. Not sure what happens in MikTeX. What do you use?

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Well, I'll never offer again something to you :-P

barznjy

@TorbjørnT. I use MikTeX

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer /sob Black Forest biscuits... :(

@ChristianHupfer: <3

David Carlisle

@Nasser the one that should have been a class:-)

Torbjørn T.

8:07 PM

@barznjy You can try adding the epstopdf package, and compiling with shell-escape enabled. (Add --shell-escape as a flag to pdflatex.) Or convert the EPS to PDF first.

barznjy

@TorbjørnT. adding the epstopdf package solved the problem. Many Thanks

barbara beeton

@Johannes_B -- there's an old saying, "you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." never tried it, but maybe worth consideration. of course, the flies would probably get stuck in it, but they'd still be alive ... (oops! tried to spell that "aliver"; must have been thinking of your existing trap.)

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B had a quick look but isn't it more or less what mylatex does/did? for making formats with specific class/preamble

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle that's why i pinged you.

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton I'm sure he's got the one I recommended by now.

Johannes_B

8:12 PM

@barbarabeeton i probably would have put the can in the freezer and later feed the dead flies to the ducks in the park. Now the dog ate the flies i killed.

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B did you; I just saw your comment to you above:-)

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton I'd certainly go for honey instead of vinegar. :) Where's my bee duck avatar? :)

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Menschliches Versagen ;-)

8 hours ago, by Johannes_B

Calling for a late answer: http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/131207/own-cls-to-fmt-conversion ;-)

@DavidCarlisle I forgot to ping you.

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B and now the points have gone elsewhere, oh well at least they haven't gone to egreg:-)

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle :-) Sorry.

David Carlisle

8:17 PM

@Johannes_B no harm done

Nasser

@DavidCarlisle I have been looking closely at these packages. I made more comparison of the math using them vs. not. Here is an example:

newtxtext makes the math more bold, but some of the spacing is not as good as without using it. Too much space between "df" and the lower limit of the integral is hitting the left[ . So I think I will not use this package for now.

David Carlisle

@Nasser yes math typesetting is hard:-) (the df on the right looks very tight though have you negative space there?

Nasser

@DavidCarlisle actually I just had "df" like this in the latex code. "df d\theta" I should probably not do this. I think there is better way to typeset the "dx" thing.

But looking the lower limit of the integral, it is hitting the \left[ there with this package. I did not like this.

David Carlisle

@Nasser oh OK maybe just looked tight next to the newtx version

@Nasser yes that would count as a bug I guess.

egreg

@Nasser The df is correct in newtxmath; I've never seen \int_{\theta=0}^{\pi} and using \limits after \int is not the way it's usually typeset. When you have \left[<operator with limits> it's normally better adding \, in between.

Nasser

8:27 PM

Here is the actual code , please do not scream at me, this was generated by SW ;)

\begin{align*}
h\left(  x,y\right)   &  =%
{\displaystyle\int\limits_{\theta=0}^{\pi}}
{\displaystyle\int\limits_{f=0}^{\infty}}
F\left(  f,\theta\right)  e^{j2\pi f(x\cos\theta+y\sin\theta)}\ f\ dfd\theta\\
&  +%
{\displaystyle\int\limits_{\theta=0}^{\pi}}
{\displaystyle\int\limits_{f=-\infty}^{0}}
F\left(  f,\theta\right)  e^{j2\pi f(x\cos\theta+y\sin\theta)}\left(
-f\right)  \ df d\theta
\end{align*}
Using $\left\vert f\right\vert $ we can combine the above 2 terms into one%
\begin{equation}

\usepackage{newtxtext,newtxmath}

any way, I think I'll stick with standard Latex for now ;)

David Carlisle

@Nasser I'll scream at you for still generating code with sw after all this time:-) the markup isn't really giving tex a chance to lay it out correctly, all the \displaystyle and \limits and most of the { } are wrong. I can't be bothered to check if it would actually look better with the correct markup though:-)

Nasser

@DavidCarlisle I am not using SW much any more. I am forced to look at it to clean all this now. That is all. All my HW's were done using it. But when I have to make changes now, I spend so much time removing \left( and right) were not not needed and cleaning the code so I can see what it is doing.

I have lots of latex code generated by SW and I have no idea what it is doing now, as it is just way too complicated looking for me to even try to make one change in it else it will not compile again, and I think I will be stuck, since it will not load into SW any more.

David Carlisle

@Nasser probably @egreg was so upset by your image that he's coding up a version with reasonable markup as we speak:-)

egreg

@Nasser A TeXnically and mathematically correct version:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{newtxtext,newtxmath}

\begin{document}

\begin{align*}
h(x,y)   &=
\iint\limits_{(\theta,f)\in[0,\pi]\times[0,\infty)}
  F(f,\theta) e^{j2\pi f(x\cos\theta+y\sin\theta)}f\,df\,d\theta
\\
&+
\iint\limits_{(\theta,f)\in[0,\pi]\times(-\infty,0]}
  F(f,\theta) e^{j2\pi f(x\cos\theta+y\sin\theta)}(-f)\, df\, d\theta
\end{align*}
Using $\lvert f\rvert$ we can combine the above two terms into one
\begin{equation}
h(x,y)=
  \int_{0}^{\pi}
  \left[\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}

David Carlisle

@Nasser as predicted ^^^^

egreg

8:38 PM

@Nasser Note that {\displaystyle\int\limits_...} is ridiculous.

@DavidCarlisle :)

Nicola Talbot

@PauloCereda ^^^

Nasser

@egreg thanks. I saw places where they make the "dx" straight UP instead of slanted. Should one do this for integrals?

Paulo Cereda

@NicolaTalbot oooh

egreg

@Nasser You can also note how all but one \left-\right pairs have disappeared.

Torbjørn T.

@Nasser Only the d I guess. Depends who you ask.

Nicola Talbot

8:40 PM

@PauloCereda \parshape :-)

egreg

@Nasser Use whatever shape you prefer. Most mathematicians use the italic “d”.

Paulo Cereda

@NicolaTalbot :)

Torbjørn T.

126

Q: What's the proper way to typeset a differential operator?

I can't seem to find any consensus on the right way to typeset a differential operator, whether it is: in a standalone context: as part of a derivative: as part of an integral: In all of these cases, I have seen them sometimes italicized like variables (as in the second and third examples ...

typography math-operators

egreg

@Nasser efining \newcommand{\diff}{\mathop{}\!d} allows you to type \diff x and don't bother about the \, before it. Also you can change all d's as you prefer by just modifying the definition.

@Nasser And note that it is “the above two terms”, not “the above 2 terms”.

Nasser

I think straight UP looks little nicer than tilted ones in integral. There is so much to learn about Latex now since I do not use SW much any more. I have to learn how to code Latex math directly.

barbara beeton

8:43 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- the cmmi "d" doesn't have any extra italic correction for math, so it's effectively kerned with the next letter as if it's text. knuth doesn't seem to think that the differential d should be treated the same as a variable. (checked, long ago, in volume 5, the cm fonts, source.)

Alon

when I am writing a file in lyx that combines hebrew(RTL) and english(LTR) sometimes I write lines that start in english word this line and only this line that starts with english word start in the left. The problem is that I want all my file to be RTL. it appears when I use section/subsection/regular...

how can I put all the lines in the right and don't matter which lang I use??
Thanks!!

Nasser

@egreg your typestting about is really nice. You should write a program, like SW, which generates good Latex from GUI. You'll make a fortune selling it.

barbara beeton

@egreg -- see my previous comment to david. there really is no space between a cm differential d and the variable. so, according to knuth, the newtxmath is not what knuth would think correct.

David Carlisle

@Alon didn't you just ask that on site? (anyone here will have seen that already)

@Alon sorry have no idea about lyx

@Nasser the trick to getting good typesetting is not using a GUI

Alon

@DavidCarlisle Ok.. thanks.

Nasser

8:48 PM

@DavidCarlisle But GUI is much easier for new users. The problem is not the GUI itself, it is that we do not have GUI which generates good latex and supports all of Latex correctly. The idea is correct, it is just there is no implementation for it done right so far.

barbara beeton

@egreg -- are you sure that's a unary minus on the f?

David Carlisle

@Nasser jumping off a cliff may seem a good way to start a journey quickly, but overall, I don't recommend it.

egreg

@barbarabeeton Yes.

David Carlisle

@egreg sadly I agree with @egreg

egreg

@barbarabeeton Possibly so. But there's no alternative except creating a particular symbol or asking the font maintainer to remove the italic correction.

@barbarabeeton A slot for the “differential d” would allow good kerning when “d” is not used for the differential.

David Carlisle

8:53 PM

@Nasser it's not really the generation that's bad, the input method doesn't offer the right controls to construct a reasonable internal expression out of which to generate anything. If the internal expression object is just nonsense then it is impossible to serialize it to reasonable latex (or anything else)

@egreg unicode has one of course but unfortunately the reference glyph is the silly mathematica double struck d

barbara beeton

@egreg -- okay, i've just compared $-f$ with $(-f)$ (computer modern), and the spacing is the same. question/comment retracted. apologies.

@DavidCarlisle -- that one was added explicitly because it's needed for mathematica representation. don't believe all the text you read in unicode character names.

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton wasn't really needed but now it's there it could be used, fonts should probably offer stylistic variants to use different forms for that slot (Word offers it as a document option to typeset that slot in a variety of ways, which is quite sensible, even if it is Word:-)

barbara beeton

@egreg -- so you do agree with don about the "tight" (italic) differential d. (i get confused easily about who believes what.)

@DavidCarlisle -- so what you're suggesting is, "if mathematica, double struck. if iso whatever the engineers decreed, upright. if pure math, italic and no extra space following." something like that?

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton yes (except I get cross if you call ISO: 80000-2 "ISO" :-)

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- didn't say just "iso". said "iso whatever the engineers decreed". (just didn't want to take the time to look it up; i just fail to remember that number.)

David Carlisle

9:07 PM

@barbarabeeton yes I know but isomath package and iso option in unicode-math make people think ISO as an organisation have decreed how math should be set, rather than a small bunch of engineers having gone to the trouble of pushing their particular style guide through ISO process

Paulo Cereda

L3'ers: is this too bad?

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}

\usepackage{xparse}

\ExplSyntaxOn

\tl_new:N \l_paulo_last_element

\DeclareDocumentCommand \set { O{,} m }
{
  \{
  \clist_set:Nn \l_tmpa_clist { #2 }
  \clist_reverse:N \l_tmpa_clist
  \clist_pop:NN \l_tmpa_clist \l_paulo_last_element
  \clist_reverse:N \l_tmpa_clist
  \clist_map_inline:Nn \l_tmpa_clist
   {
    ##1 #1
  }
  \ldots #1 \l_paulo_last_element
  \}
}

\ExplSyntaxOff

\begin{document}

$\set{a, b, c}$

I was trying to provide yet another answer to this question:

3

Q: How do you create a set in LateX?

I am very lost. I haven't been liking LaTeX as it's quite hard for me to get the hang of it, so I've decided to practice on my own during the summer, but I am already stuck on something that seems very basic. I want to write sets. How do I create the brackets {}? You know, say {2,4,6,8...} or {x...

math-operators

egreg

@barbarabeeton Yes, I do.

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda reversing twice seems rather expensive (in theory, not that you are likely to have explicit list of millions of elements)

egreg

@PauloCereda Not sure of what you're going to do.

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- so we just have to be very stern about what isomath means -- it's the "standard", not real "math", just a variant on the use of math mode.

David Carlisle

9:18 PM

@egreg replacing , by ;

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Indeed, but I couldn't figure out another way (with L3).

@egreg It was just an experiment. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda \seq_set_split:Nnn \l_tmpa_seq {,} { #1 } and then \seq_use:Nn \l_tmpa_seq { ; }

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton yes but also not the standard but (potentially) a standard, ISO will standardise anything that a community considers standard (more or less, subject to review and voting) so you can have multiple iso standards in same area (ODF v OOXML for example)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Oh my! Thanks. :)

egreg

\ExplSyntaxOn

\seq_new:N \l_paulo_set_input_seq

\DeclareDocumentCommand \set { O{,} m }
{
  \{
  \seq_set_split:Nnn \l_paulo_set_input_seq { , } { #2 }
  \seq_use:Nn \l_paulo_set_input_seq { #1 }
  \}
}

\ExplSyntaxOff

Paulo Cereda

9:24 PM

@egreg Wow!

egreg

@DavidCarlisle That should be banned from the face of earth.

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- that's why standards are nice -- there are so many to choose from.

goodnight all.

David Carlisle

@egreg couldn't find the config in Word (never can:-) but entering ⅆ produces a normal italic d by default, so it's not all bad..

egreg

9:54 PM

@DavidCarlisle Can't test. ;-)

David Carlisle

@egreg we know you are a big windows user really, just too shy to admit it.

Arthur Reutenauer

10:27 PM

@Johannes_B That’s fascinating ;-) Please keep us posted :-)

@Johannes_B Now we know that you don’t qualify as “wouldn’t hurt a fly” :-P

@DavidCarlisle Out of the blue, I have two tickets for Falstaff on Saturday morning. Very good location.

David Carlisle

10:45 PM

@ArthurReutenauer more popular than William Tell?:-) er thanks (if that's an offer) but tied up this weekend

@barbarabeeton oh I just saw your tug title, Pierre MacKay died, I didn't know,

Arthur Reutenauer

11:27 PM

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that was an offer. Too bad.

David Carlisle

@ArthurReutenauer thanks for the thought

Arthur Reutenauer

@DavidCarlisle Speaking of William Tell, I spent several hours today making sure every part of the website had the appropriate warning. And tonight’s performance was much better received.

Paul Gessler

11:54 PM

@ArthurReutenauer my mythical tyrannical ancestor didn't get the memo in time. :-(

Arthur Reutenauer

@PaulGessler No, well he’s the one leading the wrongdoers :-/

Transcript for

$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends