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12:04 AM
@PauloCereda: <3
 
@ChristianHupfer <3
 
@UlrikeFischer: Mission accomplished ;-)
 
@egreg The ship will be delivered in April :-) So a long time but I'm not always here. Usually Monday until Friday. One week now, two weeks in December, January 2nd a week for sea trial.
 
@PauloCereda Next time I will plan additional time for another FATTY OWL ;-)
 
@StefanKottwitz We could meet sometimes in December
 
12:06 AM
@ChristianHupfer Oh my!
 
@egreg Would be great! I planned to be here December 7 - 18
 
@PauloCereda: It's late here, I will reply tomorrow...
 
@StefanKottwitz December 8 is holiday, here
 
@ChristianHupfer No worries. :) Thank you again.
 
@egreg oh, good to know! So I may hang around instead of going to the yard
 
12:09 AM
@PauloCereda Will you write to Ulrike too or shall I just forward your mail to her?
 
@ChristianHupfer I will write her an email. :)
 
@PauloCereda Alright then, have a nice time, I will go to das (!) Bett ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Good night. :)
 
@PauloCereda Thanks, see you!
 
 
4 hours later…
4:01 AM
@SeanAllred Hmmm... where did it go on CTAN?
 
 
4 hours later…
7:54 AM
@Werner it went, sorry:-) (@SeanAllred) we now ship the whole thing as a tds zip file in the current style and no one installs latex from sources anyway so the unpacked directory had served its time
 
yo'
8:12 AM
@JosephWright @ChristianHupfer I like how the site is moderated so I don't feel any change is needed. So the question is, from my point of view: Do the mods feel that another folk in the team would be useful?
@ChristianHupfer I'm more interested in the election at Music: Practice & Theory
@PauloCereda You will like this I'm sure:
16
A: Calculate Phi (not Pi)

n̴̖̋h̷͉̃a̷̭̿h̸̡̅ẗ̵̨́d̷̰̀ĥ̷̳Regex (.NET), 122 bytes ^(?=((?=.*$(?<=^(?:\2+(.+.))((?(3)\3.+?|.*?)))).)+(.*))((?=.*(?=\4$)(?<=(?!(.+.)\6*(?=\4$)(?<=^\6+))((?(7)\7.+?|.+?)))).)+ Assuming input and output are in unary, and the output is taken from the main match of the regex. Breakdown of the regex: ^(?=((?=.*$(?<=^(?:\2+...

 
8:27 AM
@DavidCarlisle Does my point about \pdfvariable and expandability make sense?
 
@yo' Yes, exactly my opinion. It was rather a general question by me. I don't think we need other or more mods.
 
@yo' oh my! :)
 
8:47 AM
@ChristianHupfer @PauloCereda: Oh joy ;-)). A real "Punktlandung". I got Paulo's christmas card yesterday and wanted to go today to the shop to make a new try ...
 
@UlrikeFischer awww <3
 
hi
i have a question about units
which one is correct for writing 150 kilo meters: 150km or 150 km?
I mean, is such space required?
between the number and its unit?
 
@EnthusiasticStudent I usually don't guess, I go with Joseph's siunitx package. :)
There's a thin space, IIRC.
 
yo'
@EnthusiasticStudent in which language, and with the strict SI mode or the standard mode?
 
so, 150 km seems more correct
@yo' what's the difference?
 
yo'
9:04 AM
@EnthusiasticStudent strict SI does not allow mixing figure numbers and text units, like in 150 kilometres. So either 150\,km or hundred fifty kilometres (or alike). Certainly 150\,km is fine
 
@yo' is there any space between 150 and km? or should it be consistent?
 
yo'
@EnthusiasticStudent yes, a thin space. Well, that's if we speak about English.
 
@yo' is there any language which do not have such thin space?
 
yo'
@EnthusiasticStudent yep, Czech, but only in some cases. It depends on the grammatical structure of the sentence.
 
@EnthusiasticStudent Yes, space is required
 
9:09 AM
@yo' @JosephWright is there any ebook or pdf over the net which list SI rules on typesetting units?
 
@yo' Thin space is a typographic thing, certainly: the rules just talk about a 'space'
@EnthusiasticStudent bipm.org/en/publications/si-brochure and the NIST guidelines
 
yo'
@JosephWright we have to translate the engineering rules into the typographical ones ;-)
 
@JosephWright Wow... great guidelines...
thank you @yo' and @JosephWright
 
9:24 AM
@DavidCarlisle Working-ish LuaTeX 0.85 here, but Akira has confirmed \write17 is not working on Win32 :-)
 
@JosephWright does \typeout work (that isn't so different)
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes: my guess is it's streams > 16 that are broken
@DavidCarlisle Looks like changing the stream to \@unused in l3build sorts that issue :-)
@DavidCarlisle Something then messes up some formatting
 
9:43 AM
@UlrikeFischer: I feared it would be lost completely or that I am just too stupid to send a parcel to some Duck @PauloCereda ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I'm missing some random lines in messages as well: once Akira fixes the first issue I'll pursue this one
 
@PauloCereda: You've got mail
 
10:05 AM
@egreg The frontespizio question from last night ... OT since reader issue?
 
@Johannes_B Yes
 
10:37 AM
@egreg: One for you, I think:
0
Q: Optional parameter in boxed renewenvironment verbatim setting

user92262I did something as follows: \usepackage{xparse,fancyvrb} \RenewDocumentEnvironment{verbatim}{o}{ \IfNoValueTF{#1} {\Verbatim[frame=single]} {\Verbatim[frame=single,label=#1] } } {\endVerbatim} however, it's not ok, and I don't know why. Any help?

 
 
1 hour later…
11:43 AM
@DavidCarlisle The \write business looks awkward, particularly as it's not documented and there's an implication Hans is keen to drop \write18
 
@JosephWright documentation generally not luatex's strong point.
 
@DavidCarlisle Hmm
@DavidCarlisle Certainly needs an amount of determination!
@DavidCarlisle For me both \write16 and \write17 are out: will adjust l3build to use \@unused or similar
 
@JosephWright need to check if the current e@alloc allocator copes correctly with defining \newwrite to allocate 0-17 skip 18 then 19-255 if i put the right numbers in the e@alloc call... (or skip 16 17 18) if we have tp
 
@DavidCarlisle Yup
@DavidCarlisle I'll also need to adjust the (currently not widely used) IniTeX mode allocator for expl3 (easier: we have a pool so there is sequence driving things)
 
@JosephWright the write allocator has policy issues again in what we support, presumably it has to have \IncludeInRelease guards so at the macro level you can back it out back to 0-16, but that's rather orthogonal to the issue of how many streams actually work in the engine. I'm tempted to ignore that at the format level and allow \newwrite to allocate up to 255 even if on older engines you get an error if you use that with \openout.
@JosephWright could have engine version conditionals inside the includeinrelease ones, but I think I'd rather not:-)
 
11:59 AM
@DavidCarlisle 2e policy is your area! I'll address the expl3 side of this (which is a pain, not announced, not clear, ...)
 
user174558
@JosephWright How is the LaTeX 3 project going?
 
@JosephWright sounds like a plan, of sorts:-)
 
@Jasper We are working on things, but currently being distracted by LuaTeX changes (not widely released yet)
 
user174558
@JosephWright I need to keep up with the changes. Should I set luatex to be the default compiler now?
 
@Jasper Not particularly
 
12:01 PM
@Jasper only if you want an exciting life:-)
 
@Jasper I use pdfTeX for most things, XeTeX/LuaTeX as required
 
user174558
Hmm, OK. I will stick to pdflatex for now.
 
user174558
Here is an advertisement for Gratzer's book. The fifth edition of More Math into LaTeX will be published next month!!!
 
@Jasper link?
 
user174558
@JosephWright It is on springer.com, but they just deleted it, LOL.
 
user174558
Maybe there are changes to the publication date or some unexpected troubles.
 
user174558
I know it was moved from Nov to Dec.
 
user174558
Haha, so strange.
 
user174558
If Gratzer is here, we should ask him about it.
 
user174558
1:27 PM
@JosephWright springer.com/gp/book/9783319237954 the link is back for now, lol.
 
2:29 PM
Not much activity here ...
 
@ChristianHupfer I am playing with my ducks. :)
 
@PauloCereda Ah, the local kindergarten has opened :-P
 
@ChristianHupfer wheeeee
 
@PauloCereda Now you have almost a Seven Nation Army of ducks ;-)
 
 
2 hours later…
4:22 PM
Here (tex.stackexchange.com/q/278674/4736) is a discussion between David Carlisle and myself about fonts in PDF. David? Hello?
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle ^^ You've been called.
@KeksDose To ping someone, you have to prepend @ before their name ;-)
 
@yo' Thanks. I guess he is preparing something to prove me being completely wrong...
 
hi:-)
@KeksDose see link I just added under your answer:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle In preprocessing the print for a printing press it is often expected that you provide the whole fonts by embedding it into the PDF or whatever. I don't know much about that. But I don't think the OP here discusses printing preprocess for a press.
Sorry, offline.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:44 PM
Anyone here?
E.T. phone home?
 
@user2692669 No.
:)
 
@PauloCereda :)
@PauloCereda Well... this is my problem, I search for referencing inside my document and it's all ok. But (there is always a but), I searched about linking back to the hyperref but they say that it's program dependent.
 
@user2692669 oh sorry, I really don't follow. :(
 
@PauloCereda But I thought if I use a label like "reference_back" and link to it,it should work.
oh
 
@user2692669 You can have a table and refer to it multiple times in the document. There is no way to know where the link was coming from. Most pdf-viewers simply have a go Back button.
 
6:48 PM
@user2692669 Oh I guess I see. You want anchors?
 
@Johannes_B But, using a label to go back should work, but it seems soooo counter productive, isn't there something equal to balance the hypperref and the label to act like a "seesaw"?
@PauloCereda let me google anchors to see what you mean :P
 
@user2692669 like HTML anchors. :)
 
@PauloCereda hmm i see\
@Johannes_B Sorry, now I understand, unless we have a 1:1 relationship, we can't know who called with more than one caller with the same name. So I guess I should use "go_back_1" "go_back_2" "go_back_3" labels to hypperef back
@Johannes_B Inefficient but trustworthy :/
 
@user2692669 But then the reader would still not know, which link to click to get to the page he were coming from.
 
@Johannes_B Wouldn't something like this make sense? :
\label{return_from_dest}
\hyperref[go_to_dest]{go_to_dest_text}

...(chapters go by)

\label{go_to_dest}
\hyperref[return_from_dest]{Go_back}
 
7:02 PM
@user2692669 Possibly, but if there are more than one, the reader has to guess or the Go-back message must be more descriptive. I think simply hitting the boBack button in the pdf-viewer is more simple.
And possibly more natural to the reader.
 
@Johannes_B Many people don't know that it even exists
 
@user2692669 You can try the aprroach, but it will be a hack load of work :-)
 
@Johannes_B You are right, there isn't enough time for this luxury... I should place a big warning sign that says: "Your PDF reader supports a GO BACK function"
 
@user2692669 Mine doesn't or i am unaware of it. On the other hand, if you are talking about pdf-view alone and tables/pictures ... you can simply oavoid them floating.
 
@user2692669 wrong movie :-P
 
7:09 PM
@ChristianHupfer The Dark One watches movies outside of his job description,too :P
 
@user2692669 Ah, at the Emperial Cinema around the corner, next to Death Star Dome ;-) I see
 
@ChristianHupfer Don't tell anyone but I'd suggest sitting far from the air vents.
@ChristianHupfer From what I've heard that's how something got destroyed.
 
@user2692669 I've heard there's a weak point in the nuclear core of the Death Star, you should take a look with your Tie Figther ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Nooo don't make me google that, demon, I have work to dooooooo. :P
 
@PauloCereda: Looks marvelous!!!! <3
 
7:23 PM
@ChristianHupfer <3
 
@PauloCereda Next time I will ship a quarter of a year in advance to get it right on time there :-P
@egreg and @daleif: You're answering power is requested: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/278710/…
 
7:49 PM
@KeksDose if you don't embed the fonts (usually just a subset) then you have to have the fonts installed locally.
 
user174558
@DavidCarlisle How long ago was that picture taken? Do you still look the same?
 
@JasperLoy @DavidCarlisle looks a lot more like his pic than I do ;-)
 
user174558
@JosephWright Yeah, WTF did you remove your old picture? You looked handsome.
 
@JasperLoy my picture here? can't remember actually when that was, a few years back, someone posted pictures of the uktug meeting a few weeks ago, so you can compare...
 
8:01 PM
@Jasper do you look like your picture?
 
user174558
@DavidCarlisle Nope, though I am depressed.
 
@JasperLoy you can never be sure with you squares. I met @egreg in Darmstadt this year for the first time, he really is a green square.
6
 
8:27 PM
Would you use a citation here?
0
Q: bibliography: Using a Numeric Citation Style

Shan  LuoI am writing my thesis using Latex but I have one problem when cite websites. In .bib file, the website is formatted using @misc: @misc{google, key = {Google Inc.}, howpublished = {}, note = {[online] link}}, url = {http://www.google.com} } In the main body, it is like a...

 
8:45 PM
@JosephWright (or anyone) is this too horrible? (it works but....)
\def\newwrite     {\e@alloc\write
{\ifnum\allocationnumber=18 \allocationnumber19\fi
 \global\chardef}
{\count17}\m@ne{128}}
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle My parser just got stuck for the next 100 years.
 
@DavidCarlisle What happens about 16, 17?
 
@JosephWright well if the windows implementation gets fixed, they just work, as far as I can see.
 
@DavidCarlisle I thought the point was that 16 and 17 were out so it's Linux/Mac that need fixing?
 
@JosephWright that is, if you don't open a file on them they print to terminal, but if you do open a file they print to there.
@JosephWright oh I thought they were going the other way. Did i misread the thread. I can't see why 16/17 should be special. If they do make them reserved can of course change that test to if 16 jump to 19.
 
8:50 PM
@DavidCarlisle I'll read the patch again
@DavidCarlisle Hmm, you are probably right
@DavidCarlisle That said, we now can't simply use 16 (or 17 or ...) as 'will be free' as it won't necessarily be true: I guess we could go for 128?
 
@JosephWright it's a bit of a hack putting the test there there is a pending \global before #3 so it does \global\allocationnumber19 and then you need \global before the \chardef fortunately two \global are OK. the alternative would be to rewrite \ee@alloc and \e@ch@ck to parameterise the jump so you can jump to 19 rather than 256, but that seems like a lot of change
@JosephWright yes
 
@DavidCarlisle I think for a one-off a hack is OK: I still wonder whether \write18 will survive
 
@JosephWright would be hard to argue it's a brilliant interface, since they have lua's os interface available.
 
@DavidCarlisle Right, checkin for expl3 coming up for that, then I'll extend the native allocator to the full range
@DavidCarlisle Quite
@DavidCarlisle You might say to Hans that in some ways it's easier to bite the bullet (would solve your issue above!)
 
@JosephWright I suspect for compat reasons even if primitive \write18 didn't work you might want to prevent it being allocated and/or hook \write to do a \directlua or \latelua call to os.whatever if passed 18.
 
9:07 PM
@DavidCarlisle And my motorbike has green square wheels too!
5
 
@DavidCarlisle Cool
@DavidCarlisle \immediate\write128{Hello} bust Win32 LuaTeX 0.85 :-(
 
@JosephWright if my upload speed changes from .37Mbs to 50Mbs does that mean I can make 100 times more latex 3 checkins?
@JosephWright ohh I'll try cygwin
 
@DavidCarlisle Fingers-crossed
@DavidCarlisle Works with v0.80
 
$ luatex ww
This is LuaTeX, Version beta-0.85.0
 restricted \write18 enabled.
(./ww.tex
Hello
)
No pages of output.
Transcript written on ww.log.
@JosephWright works here ^^
 
@DavidCarlisle I'll report
 
9:32 PM
@JosephWright they'll love us:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Yup
@DavidCarlisle Then again, as you've said before about users, most of them are via LaTeX so the testing is important
 
meanwhile in the 20th century, storm "Barney" is shaking the overhead wires and internet comes and goes....
 
@DavidCarlisle Mail sent: I don't mind the change for stream 16/17 if we can at least have 128 or something as a replacement
@DavidCarlisle :-)
 
@JosephWright yes it's not a big issue either way as long as it does the same on all OS
 
@KeksDose @DavidCarlisle: I think you drifted a bit away from the question. It mentioned fonts loaded with \setmainfont, and before discussing legal questions, one should probably first check, if (and how) it is possible not to embed such a font.
 
9:40 PM
@UlrikeFischer ah yes was thinking of map files for pdftex, mostly. But my comment under the question still stands I think, that OP should check the licence on the font first.
 
10:22 PM
Does anybody understand this post:
1
Q: Why my table caption shift line!

user92322 \begin{table}[h!] \caption{Arnold period in different size images} \setlength{\tabcolsep}{8pt} \renewcommand{\arraystretch}{1.5} \centering \begin{tabular}{|c|c|c|c|c|c|c|} \hline Size N & 4*4 & 8*8 & 32*32 & 64*64 & 128*128 & 256*256\\ \hline Period M & 3 & 6 & 24 & 48 & 96 & ...

 
@ChristianHupfer Yes. The document class prints “Table 1” above the caption text and the user doesn't like it.
 
@egreg ah I guess he does mean that, i thought he wanted caption on same line as table. I'll delete my comment
 
@egreg Well, he wrote 'below' in the comment which he does not like ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer “Caption is below Table 1”. It's quite clear, IMO.
 
@egreg Ah, I see -- I thought he referred to the whole table not to 'Table 1' as caption label
 
10:29 PM
@ChristianHupfer The reference is not to ‘table 1’, but to `the words “table 1”’
 
@egreg Yes, thanks -- I understood
 
10:42 PM
@DavidCarlisle You'll appreciate this
Where were you @egreg when I did start writing my document? :)). The showkeys is the cure for the labeling cancer. I have more than a hundred of equations, I always worry about remembering the labels of the equations, this is why I've chosen eq4.1. With showkeys , I will not to worry about memorizing the labels. THANK YOU SO MUCH. — CroCo 11 mins ago
@CroCo what do you thank him for:-) I wrote the package:-) — David Carlisle 28 secs ago
 
@egreg as usual I do the work, you pick up the rep and the praise.
 
@DavidCarlisle I should have recommended showlabels. :P
 
@egreg I see you have corrected that error
 
@DavidCarlisle :)
 
11:10 PM
You two really should start your own comedy act.
It would help if one of you was shorter than the other...
 
@PauloCereda where are you when we need an abnt expert...
 
I'm a bit fuzzy what this \eqref does.
 
@FaheemMitha it's \ref but puts () round the number
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh. And what does showkeys do, exactly? I looked at the docs, but I didn't understand what it was good for.
 
@FaheemMitha see the picture in egreg's answer it puts the symbolic label and cite names into the margin of your document so if you see the equation you want to reference it says eq:abc in the margin so you know to do \ref{eq:abc}
 
11:20 PM
@DavidCarlisle Hah, that's handy. How old is this package? The docs I pulled up said 2014.
Is there a difference between "symbolic labels" and "cite names"?
 
@FaheemMitha \label{zzz} and \bibitem[zzz} cf \ref and \cite
 
Is there a good way to rename labels in LaTeX other than search and replace? Maybe AUCTeX has something.
@DavidCarlisle Oh. sorry about the stupid question. I keep forgetting that BibTeX exists, even though I have often used it. Thanks.
 
@FaheemMitha I wrote it in 1992 or so It's part of the core latex2e distribution, but is older than that
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh
 
@FaheemMitha well any method is going to be search and replace really.
 
11:25 PM
@DavidCarlisle What we need here is AI.
 
@FaheemMitha why?
 
@DavidCarlisle Well, to intelligently tell the user what the labels are.
 
@FaheemMitha the user named the things, (s)he should know, that's the whole point of the mechanism:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Well, it would be nice to be able to automate a renaming of labels/cite names. Though most documents aren't large enough for that to be an issue.
 
@FaheemMitha We should not use any automatic approach -- we need some intelligence amongst users too ;-)
 
11:28 PM
@JosephWright Any plan to add an argument specifier to xparse, say q for “quine”: like o, but it takes the same value as the following m argument if absent? So \NewDocumentCommand{\foo}{qm}{\internal_function:nn{#1}{#2}} could be used instead of the clumsy \NewDocumentCommand{\foo}{om}{\IfNoValueTF{#1}{\internal_function:nn{#2}{#2}}{\‌​internal_function:nn{#1}{#2}}}
 
@FaheemMitha it should be almost never required to rename the labels so why is doing a generic edit replace of {eq:abc} to {eq:xyz} a problem, what would a specific rename function do?
 
@ChristianHupfer Well, if it is an intelligent approach, it's pretty safe TO be clear, if you decide to change your eqn label from "this sucks" to "this really sucks", it would nice to not have to go and change all the refs too.
@DavidCarlisle rename the refs.
 
@FaheemMitha as i say that's what a simple replace of {eq:abc} does. (But how often do you need to do such a rename, should be never, to a good approximation)
@FaheemMitha what do you mean by "have to go and change" wouldn't your editor just change them all if that's what you wanted?
@egreg there's an open issue along those lines somewhere..
 
@DavidCarlisle You mean using search and replace? I guess so.
 
@egreg you mean like this github.com/latex3/latex3/issues/281
@FaheemMitha that's what editors do isn't it?
 
11:33 PM
@DavidCarlisle Some of them.
 
@FaheemMitha there is only one
 
Only one?
 
@FaheemMitha certainly I have used the same editor almost daily since 1985 so I'm not aware of any others.
 
@DavidCarlisle I'm almost positive there is more than one editor.
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, but my idea would be simpler (and more likely to be useful, I think).
 
11:41 PM
@egreg i think Bruno/@JosephWright got something working, but you could leave a comment on that issue
 
@DavidCarlisle Done.
 
@egreg I've got mail:-)
 

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