TeX, LaTeX and Friends

percusse

12:00 AM

record for myself The question was : tex.stackexchange.com/questions/70162/…

user19161

@percusse Looks pgf to me.

percusse

@WillHunting Indeed it is. Poor man's Photoshop

user19161

@percusse Smart man's Photoshop rather.

percusse

@WillHunting Smells like isomorphism.

user19161

@percusse Well, most of the rich folks are quite stupid, it's true.

percusse

12:06 AM

@WillHunting mostly rather unethical I would say.

considering the paths to fortune.

user19161

@percusse I prefer plain diagrams to fanciful ones. That is way too colourful for me.

percusse

@WillHunting Same here but it's the OP's request. I can only hope that it ends up in a beautiful document.

Harish Kumar

12:32 AM

@StephanLehmke: Congratulations on reaching 10k. I am happy to cast that last vote for you. cheers. :)

@DavidCarlisle: Congrats for being a legendry. You people spend a lot of time here.

Stephan Lehmke

@HarishKumar What a fine day! I was looking forward to making this answer since May ;-)

I have one more interesting extension in mind...

Harish Kumar

@StephanLehmke: I am eager to know what is there inside? It should be certainly great.

And that answer is epic.

Stephan Lehmke

@HarishKumar Stay tuned. I'll update the answer, but probably not before the weekend.

Harish Kumar

@StephanLehmke: Sure. I am tracking it. But I don't know whether we can track launchpad (like we do in github -- unsuccessfully though!) . If you leave a note here in chat after update, we will be grateful.

percusse

@StephanLehmke Just rather utopical (at least for me ) question: Is there a way to include this process to the float placement of TeX? I mean, if there are two images provided, is it possible for TeX to search for another page if that page is already occupied?

Stephan Lehmke

12:47 AM

@percusse Probably not in the float placement as it is now in the output routine. For this kind of thing it's practically indispensable to reflow paragraphs (as you have to calculate parshape definitions which will break down on page break at the latest). Also column balancing is impossible without re-calculating parshapes.

Note that DocScape offers this kind of thing as a basic kernel property (i.e. every text can flow around stuff):

percusse

@StephanLehmke So the essential difficulty is the parshape creation but not changing the contents of the paragraph. Did I get it right?

Ah, that's one of my favorites. It might have a few words between the legs too :)

Stephan Lehmke

Lately, I've been thinking of "marrying" DocScapes grid design approach with LaTeXs output routine in some kind of package, but it will be rather different from how output currently works. Maybe some kind of "discussion basis" for the direction in which xor is moving...

@percusse Correct.

Harish Kumar

@StephanLehmke: :)

Stephan Lehmke

@percusse At the moment no "holes" in a paragraph are supported (that is, several text segments in one line).

percusse

@StephanLehmke I have that on my 20+ to-do list to find a shrink to fit bounding shape (in TikZ but that might provide some parshape creating numbers maybe).

Stephan Lehmke

1:01 AM

@percusse For DocScape we have a tool which will analyse a picture and extract a clipping path or contour from it in XML format which can then be read by DocScape.

Paulo Cereda

@StephanLehmke: Congrats for reaching 10k! :D

cmhughes

1:18 AM

@HarishKumar hi there!

hello to everyone else too! :)

Stephan Lehmke

@PauloCereda Thanks!

Harish Kumar

@cmhughes: Hi May I say Good morning? or is it nught for you?

cmhughes

@HarishKumar evening :) how about you?

Harish Kumar

@cmhughes: Good evening. And it is a fine morning to me with your delightful screen shot ;)

@cmhughes: It is morning 6.50.

@cmhughes: Where can I find the updated indent.plx?

percusse

@StephanLehmke I should have known :)

cmhughes

1:22 AM

@HarishKumar yep, it's just for you :) well, you gave me the test case- it'll work for everyone :)

it's on github: github.com/cmhughes/latexindent.plx

Paulo Cereda

@cmhughes: and soon on CTAN. :)

cmhughes

it doesn't match split [ ] yet, that'll be in the next version.

@PauloCereda that would be so cool!

Harish Kumar

@cmhughes: Thank you very much. It is a goodo have it for me.

Paulo Cereda

@cmhughes At least for TeX Live, I can give you all the needed steps to deploy indent.plx as a script for both Windows and Linux. :)

Harish Kumar

And again I didn't get any notification from github. Sigh

cmhughes

1:24 AM

@HarishKumar you're welcome. I'm keeping that test file for reference. I'll work on fixing the other things

Stephan Lehmke

@AndrewStacey I have now made the meta post:

0

Q: Answers to packages

On behalf of Andrew Stacey I'd like to invite contributions to the TeX.SX Launchpad Site. The site was originally created with a focus on TikZ, but Andrew always intended it to be an open repository for community-developing of packages from TeX.SX answers. See these Meta threads for explanation...

discussion

cmhughes

the multicolumn thing is a known issue- at the moment the script specifically ignores them, and doesn't even try to format them

Stephan Lehmke

Please take a look. It's a bit late already, so it might be gibberish...

Harish Kumar

@cmhughes: Thanks. And I will be thorughly using it and will keep you bugging ;)

Stephan Lehmke

@JosephWright @stefankottwitz could you make that CW?

percusse

1:25 AM

@cmhughes When you are done with it, I'll just pass the whole pgfcore.tex file over it seperated at each @ char :)

Harish Kumar

Oh. So for the time being we can't expect it to be fixed!

Stephan Lehmke

@AndrewStacey Would it make sense to unfreeze the AtP chat room?

Harish Kumar

Above one for @cmhughes

percusse

@StephanLehmke It doesn't have to be. Meta Q/A don't contribute to rep points anyway.

Stephan Lehmke

@percusse I just wanted to make clear I don't see this whole thing as my contribution or anything.

Paulo Cereda

1:28 AM

@StephanLehmke You won a user for pullquote. :)

percusse

@StephanLehmke We all know that you are executing your evil plan to take over TeX.SE so nevermind.

Harish Kumar

@PauloCereda: You are wrong. Make it two.

Stephan Lehmke

@PauloCereda Whatever would you use it for?

Paulo Cereda

@HarishKumar Oops my bad. :) Stephan won two pullquote users. :)

@StephanLehmke To put lovely images in my songsheets. :)

Harish Kumar

@PauloCereda: ;)

@StephanLehmke: My first idea will be to use it for certificates. But only one trouble. I want single column!

Paulo Cereda

1:32 AM

Where's @MarcoDaniel today? I miss him. And his avatar-burger. :P

Stephan Lehmke

@HarishKumar There are a couple of solutions for the single-column case.

Harish Kumar

@StephanLehmke: True. I like pullqoutes So it will be my choice. (I am already putting them in some of the certificates by other means)

Paulo Cereda

@HarishKumar You know, a blog post about certificates in LaTeX would be awesome. :) wink wink

Harish Kumar

OK I have to go to the institute now. See you guys. Have a good day/night.

@PauloCereda: Will it be useful?

Paulo Cereda

@HarishKumar Sure! :D

@HarishKumar Have a nice day, Harish! :)

Harish Kumar

1:38 AM

@PauloCereda: But still I am not sure of what should be the content? I mean whether general ideas? or basic things? or the amount of stuff I use ?

Paulo Cereda

@HarishKumar Maybe everything. :P

Harish Kumar

@PauloCereda: You are so good to pull me in! Let me find some time please and I will be in touch with you. And bye for now and good night to you Paulo.

Paulo Cereda

@HarishKumar Thanks, Harish. :) And a good day to you, my friend. :)

Stephan Lehmke

Oh wow I can see deleted questions! It's 4 o'clock here so I must have entered twilight zone...

cmhughes

1:54 AM

/steps away/

user19161

2:30 AM

@StephanLehmke Maybe you never left it to begin with.

Gonzalo Medina

2:51 AM

@StephanLehmke Now @PauloCereda can give you half his credit card. Congratulations!

And I also see that @DavidCarlisle is Legendary. Congratulations to him too!

cmhughes

@percusse sounds good :)

user19161

3:57 AM

Hey @percusse I did not know you like Justin Bieber too!

Aditya

4:40 AM

@StephanLehmke: I am intrigued by DocScape. Is some version of it publically available?

Kannappan Sampath

5:21 AM

May God Bless Knuth!?!

Hello BTW folks.

tohecz

5:44 AM

@StephanLehmke You're welcome!

Stephan Lehmke

@Aditya Unfortunately not (yet). It's a closed source, commercial application. We're thinking about ways...

Stephan Lehmke

8:23 AM

@PauloCereda Wow, you're a man who knows how to get a "Great Answer" badge ;-)

61

A: Cute document in LaTeX

I made a humble attempt of a cute document with memoir and some Inkscape graphics. :) Please bear with me, after all, cuteness is in the eye of the beholder. :) Spoiler alert: ! Don't laugh at my duck, please. Jake and I were talking in the TeX and friends chatroom a few months ago about f...

Mr. Gundla

I need some votes to reopen my question (not a duplicate)

3

Q: Space above chapter with titlesec

Possible Duplicate: How to decrease spacing before chapter title? The following code gives me some space above the chapter title, that I'd like to avoid: \documentclass{book} \usepackage[showframe]{geometry} \usepackage{titlesec} \titleformat{\chapter}[frame] {} {\thechapter} {0...

spacing sectioning chapters titlesec

Stephan Lehmke

@Mr.Gundla Wouldn't it be best to first state (in the form of a comment) why it's not a duplicate?

Mr. Gundla

@StephanLehmke good point, done

Andrew Stacey

10:10 AM

@Mr.Gundla Not done. Could you explain why neither of the solutions that egreg posts works for you?

@StephanLehmke Sure. It gets unfrozen from time to time when there's a couple of people wanting to work on something. Just needs a mod to do so ... paging @JosephWright

Stephan Lehmke

@AndrewStacey Well, at the moment the interest (in the sense of contributions) in the issue seems to be limited. So it would be Ok to wait a bit until there are people wanting to work on something...

Mr. Gundla

@AndrewStacey Well, they just don't work. The explanation doesn't fit for my case and the amount given in the answer doesn't fit in my case. What else should I do!?!?!

Andrew Stacey

@StephanLehmke You've only just asked the question - it takes time to build up the list.

Stephan Lehmke

@Mr.Gundla Maybe you could edit the question to show you tried that solution and in which way it didn't work?

Andrew Stacey

@Mr.Gundla I don't know! But that's the point, superficially it looks like a reasonable fit and if I were to take a look, I'd start with what egreg put in the other answer. (I'm also thinking along the lines of "If this were an unknown user, what more information would we want?") So a hint as to what goes wrong with that solution would help focus thoughts.

Mr. Gundla

10:21 AM

@AndrewStacey Oh come on guys. I have found a solution to my problem, and I just want to state the answer that the solution is xyz. I am not keen on proving anybody why this liked question is not a duplicate. I really don't care. Its just for the future visitors who come across the same problem. For me, I let it closed. I don't want to do more senseless disusssion here.

Andrew Stacey

@Mr.Gundla Now that I hadn't picked up. If you'd said that at the outset, I wouldn't have kicked up a fuss!

Joseph Wright

@AndrewStacey What's needed?

Andrew Stacey

@JosephWright Stephan proposed unfreezing the "From Answers to Questions" chat room as he's got a package that he's working on at the moment.

Joseph Wright

@AndrewStacey Done

Andrew Stacey

@Mr.Gundla My apologies for the misunderstanding - I've now voted.

Mr. Gundla

10:29 AM

@AndrewStacey Thanks, and sorry for my bad mood today :)

Andrew Stacey

@Mr.Gundla No worries.

Joseph Wright

@Mr.Gundla Reopened

Mr. Gundla

10:49 AM

@JosephWright answered - thanks

user19161

12:46 PM

12 zombies in this room.

ℝaphink

thank you for the zombies

:)

user19161

openSUSE 12.2 is out!

ℝaphink

keep it out

;)

user19161

I noticed you changed your R for real.

ℝaphink

Yes, I actually did it (for real).

4

when I discovered it was not so hard to type with the compose key (and using XCompose) :)

you could use the ℍ, but there's no W

;)

user19161

12:54 PM

Oh, at first I thought you meant H for Hamiltonians.

user19161

R for real, C for complex.

ℝaphink

ℍ for hypercomplex

I was surprised to see I could do a ℙ

no idea what it stands for

proto-numbers? :-)

user19161

Actually, some people don't like to use the blackboard bold font.

user19161

They say blackboard bold is only for the blackboard.

ℝaphink

ℍ = ℝ² right?

user19161

12:57 PM

I don't know.

ℝaphink

err, ℝ³

@egreg to the rescue :-)

user19161

But now that I think about it, it is quite weird to use blackboard bold actually.

ℝaphink

yeah, it's only good for nicknames :-)

user19161

@ℝaphink See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternions

egreg

@ℝaphink The quaternions are a four-dimensional algebra over the reals. It's impossible to have a three-dimensional associative division algebra over the reals: only 1, 2 and 4 are feasible and algebras with the same dimension are isomorphic (Hurwitz theorem).

Andrew Stacey

1:05 PM

ℙ is often used for projective space. So you'll see ℝℙ² meaning the space of all lines (through the origin) in ℝ³.

ℝaphink

Thanks @AndrewStacey

Does ℝ³ℙ exist?

I guess it's the space of all points in ℝ⁴ ?

egreg

@WillHunting I do, but sometimes some compromise is necessary: I'd prefer to use regular boldface for the reals and other number sets, but in my Linear Algebra book I use boldface for matrices and vectors, so for complex and real numbers I've resorted to blackboard bold.

Stephan Lehmke

@egreg Use Fraktur!

ℝaphink

I guess I could use ℝ³ℙ as my nickname. It would make it funnier to type :-)

egreg

@StephanLehmke That's out of the question. :) Somebody used it and it was always a problem in guessing whether A or U was intended.

Andrew Stacey

1:22 PM

@ℝaphink You would write it either ℝℙ³ or ℙℝ³. The former is "The real projective space of dimension 3" the latter is "The projective space of the real vector space of dimension 3". So actually they differ by one dimension. Hmm, I've never thought of that before! I guess one would never actually write ℙℝ³ but rather ℙ(ℝ³) to avoid that ambiguity.

ℝaphink

ah

so it wouldn't work for me (my initials being R.R.R. P)

Andrew Stacey

The point is that for a vector space V then ℙV is the projective space of that vector space (all 1-dim lines in it) so ℙℝ³ ought to be ℙ(ℝ³). But when we write something with an exponent, say M³, we interpret the exponent as the dimension of the whole space. So in ℝℙ³, the ³ is the dimension of the whole space, which is one less than the dimension of the originating vector space. Thus ℝℙ³ = ...

... oh bother, I've finally gotten to the point where I need to generate my own symbols instead of cutting and pasting everyone else's. It's ℙ(ℝ⁴)

@ℝaphink No. You'd need the volume of a 3-sphere.

ℝaphink

ℙℝ⁴?

ah no, ℙ(ℝ⁴)

David Carlisle

@ℝaphink Primes: Prior to Unicode 3.1 the double struck letters in Unicode were CHNPQRZ for assorted number fields (but Unicode wouldn't admit they stand for anything except the characters themselves:-)

2

Andrew Stacey

@ℝaphink Thanks!

ℝaphink

1:27 PM

what do you mean by that @DavidCarlisle?

@AndrewStacey: then I guess I can just use my first initial and use ℝℙ

(which would be ℙ(ℝ²) if I understood properly)

egreg

@AndrewStacey For my projective geometry teacher, the projective space on V was the set of its subspaces. This allows for a very slick treatment of projective geometry and for understanding the duality: just use the (finite dimensional) vector space duality.

David Carlisle

@ℝaphink just replying to the your earlier comment "no idea what it stands for" P was (presumably) in to denote Prime numbers (which aren't a field but never mind:-)

ℝaphink

@DavidCarlisle: I meant, what do you mean by "Unicode wouldn't admin they stand for anything except the characters themselves"

Andrew Stacey

@ℝaphink Yes. It's also a circle, which we can write as \mathbb{T}, \mathbb{T}^1, or S^1.

(Incidentally, is there a quick way to get all these fun symbols on a mac?)

𝕋¹

ℝaphink

Ah

I don't have this one

I should add it to XCompose

let's see

Andrew Stacey

1:31 PM

@egreg That'll be ⋃_{k ≤ \dim V} \Gr_k(V) for the rest of us

ℝaphink

might have to log in again to get them though

Andrew Stacey

(Just remembered that for one of my papers I have it set up to use LuaLaTeX so can type in Unicode, and I enter Unicode by typing the TeX code, so \mathbb{T}^1 nicely turns into 𝕋¹ in my source.)

David Carlisle

@ℝaphink ah. If you look at the range starting with \mathbb{A} at U+1D538 you will see it has "holes" where the original number set letters were. we tried to argue that the holes were confusing and they should put complete alphabets in the 1dxxx range standing for neutral math alphabets and define U+2102 to mean Complex numbers rather than double struck C, but they wouldn't play.

ℝaphink

I see

I just saw that in the charts

wow, there's lots of math alphabets in unicode: fileformat.info/info/unicode/block/…

David Carlisle

@ℝaphink I made metafont alphabets for them all to fill in the charts at w3.org/2003/entities/2007doc/1D4.html :-)

4

ℝaphink

1:38 PM

you made the charts for w3c ?

David Carlisle

@ℝaphink well I'm the editor of that spec and mathml so yes. Not that they asked for the charts I just made them and stuck a w3c badge on them:-)

ℝaphink

cool

percusse

2:00 PM

@WillHunting I only know him from Andy Rehfeldt's videos. Having heard any original song.

Paulo Cereda

@StephanLehmke ah that answer. :)

leo

2:27 PM

hi all

Joseph Wright

@leo Hello

Gonzalo Medina

This can be closed as too localized: tex.stackexchange.com/q/70258/3954 the problem has been solved and it was a compatibility issue with a class/package (as one can infer from the OP's last comment).

Joseph Wright

@GonzaloMedina Done

leo

I have a question. When you package your packege and you upload it to CTAN, does all the documents place in the right directories when someone install the package using TeXLive?

Gonzalo Medina

@JosephWright That was really fast!

Joseph Wright

2:32 PM

@leo Yes, broadly

leo

@JosephWright I have some little class to do exams

based on exams

it use some images of my university

Andrew Stacey

(Do we have a question on this ...) Is there any way to tell TeX never to allow protrusions into the margin? I'll be happy with line-breaking early but never line-breaking late? Reason being: for on-screen viewing, my document just about fills the page so overful \hboxes end up off the page and so inaccessible.

Bruno Le Floch

3:03 PM

Yay! I can segfault TeX, pdfTeX and XeTeX, and probably also LuaTeX (which gives garbage rather than cleanly giving up).

3

    \catcode`{=1\catcode`}=2\catcode`#=6
    \def\decr{\ifnum`{=0}\fi}
    \def\ten#1{#1#1#1#1#1#1#1#1#1#1}
    \def\million#1{\ten{\ten{\ten{\ten{\ten{\ten{#1}}}}}}}
    \halign{#\cr\million{\decr}\cr}
    \end

Only works for exactly a million \decr :D

Claudio Fiandrino

@BrunoLeFloch: this seems a denial of service attack :D. There's an interesting reading on those issues: cseweb.ucsd.edu/~hovav/papers/csr10.html

cmhughes

@egreg I think the OP wants the whole paragraph indented, not just the first line

egreg

@cmhughes Then the question is wrongly posed.

cmhughes

@egreg how so?

egreg

3:19 PM

@cmhughes OK, I deleted my comments. But the question is wrongly posed anyway. :) The OP wants the number in the margin.

cmhughes

@egreg I reached the same conclusion, hence the links I provided

@egreg so do you think it is a duplicate then?

egreg

@AndrewStacey Increase the \tolerance or use a high \emergencystretch; but you can't avoid overfull boxes altogether.

cmhughes

@HarishKumar how about an answer for tex.stackexchange.com/questions/70260/… :)

Paulo Cereda

Teh TeXbook. :)

Andrew Stacey

@egreg Thanks. It's just to make it easier to read on the screen so something "roughly right" will do. I want to avoid editing the document to make things fit on the screen because the decisions I make for that will not be the same as when it goes into its final "production" format.

anon

3:46 PM

How do I write $abc$ in $\LaTeX$ with a curved line over $ab$ and a curved line under $bc$?

(Do you guys use latex in chat here? We do in the MSE room.)

cmhughes

@JosephWright are you around?

egreg

@anon No, we don't use MathJax here, because we need the code. Perhaps it's better to ask a formal question on the site.

Paulo Cereda

This is the closest I got, $\widetilde{a\underaccent{\tilde}{bc}}$ , but it's not what you are looking for. :(

Andrew Stacey

Dumping this here as a way of remembering it: head -n 960 modules/pgfmoduleshapes.code.tex| tail -n +792 (I'll put it somewhere more useful later when I'm done with what I wanted it for)

@anon $\mathrlap{\widetilde{a\phantom{b}}}\phantom{a}\undertilde{bc}$

Needs packages amsmath and accents.

Stephan Lehmke

4:04 PM

@anon Do you really mean a tilde by "curved line"? Or more like a brace?

Andrew Stacey

And mathtools

user19161

I think he means overbrace and underbrace.

anon

@StephanLehmke I was thinking along the lines of smiles and frowns :-) :-(

(except obviously stretched to cover the letters)

@AndrewStacey \mathrlap+\phantom seems interesting, thanks.

Joseph Wright

@cmhughes On and off :-)

cmhughes

@JosephWright I'd welcome a moderator's opinion on tex.stackexchange.com/questions/70090/tikz-3d-helix-torus-with-hidden-lines/ in particular, the follow-up comments (on both answers)

Joseph Wright

4:14 PM

@cmhughes I think I see what you mean. I am minded to zap the comments.

cmhughes

@JosephWright all of them?

Joseph Wright

@cmhughes Depends. Often if you decide to zap some comments, it's necessary to zap all of them as otherwise context is lost. However, in the first instance I think I'll simply comment on the question.

Stephan Lehmke

@anon According to texdoc symbols-a4, some packages define \overgroup and \undergroup for that (for instance MnSymbol). So the solution seems to be \[\mathrlap{\overgroup{a\phantom{b}}}\phantom{a}\undergroup{bc}\].

cmhughes

@JosephWright sounds good, thanks for looking at it :)

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright I'm inclined to suggest zapping all comments and leave a harmless ultimatum to the OP asking for clarifications. Or else. :)

Else being "closed as non-constructive."

:)

cmhughes

4:18 PM

@PauloCereda well said :)

or else we'll send the ducks

2

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda At the moment, I'm going to wait a little while and formulate something to say. First, however, a bit of work to do :-)

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright ooh things to explode? :)

Stephan Lehmke

JFTR, I think he means something like this:

cmhughes

thanks both :)

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Things to write for students to explode

Paulo Cereda

4:19 PM

Chemists FTW! :)

@JosephWright ooh could you advise me in a PhD in chemistry? Note: I'm a failure with chemistry. :)

I also do explode things. Stack overflow every day. <3

Stephan Lehmke

So his images are really misleading, and the lengthy text to explain the thing he's looking for looks completely different is really out of place :-(

cmhughes

@StephanLehmke yes, I think you're right. His comments got to me because it seems he doesn't have the sufficient level of mathematical knowledge to understand my answer, and he criticized me for it

@StephanLehmke I think your image is close, but it should have some z-dependence too

Stephan Lehmke

@cmhughes Yes it was the first I found with google. The important part is the closed loop in the middle ;-)

Paulo Cereda

hm donuts.

user19161

Donuts, doughnuts? Confused!

Paulo Cereda

4:23 PM

Das donut! :D

Stephan Lehmke

@cmhughes If by z-dependence you mean it should be an ascending spiral like in your picture, then I think this is exactly what he doesn't mean. Hence his picture is really misleading.

cmhughes

@StephanLehmke I'm not sure. I imagine something like my image, but with a curve spiralling around it

@StephanLehmke sorry, I have to leave now- I'll sign in again later :)

Stephan Lehmke

@cmhughes Certainly not. Thats not a Torus. He says " but shaded part is actually the torus(glue one end to the other)". The shaded part is only the uppermost 360° of his example picture. Glue both ends together, voilá, a torus.

That's the shaded part. Now glue both ends together.

Paulo Cereda

I'll add an answer with a TikZ tortoise instead of a torus. :)

2

percusse

4:57 PM

@cmhughes We also had the same problem with another user if you remember and he asked one question after another with literally the same attitude. It was really a teaching experience. Though I've managed to have a chat session without any flames :)

People with additional online personas (and possibly with some coding skills) are not looking for help, they demand service and in particular to the SE network (since quite a few put their reputation into their CV, yeah,unbelievable!) many think that we are here for rep points. The best thing is to let it cool down and let them understand that they have to cooperate if they want to get a solution.

user19161

5:08 PM

@StephanLehmke That just looks like a really twisted banana.

Stephan Lehmke

5:25 PM

@WillHunting YES! That's it! A torus is exactly a banana with both ends glued together.

Paulo Cereda

6:10 PM

@StephanLehmke Oh my, I wasn't expecting that ludic definition of a torus. :)

user19161

6:35 PM

@PauloCereda You mean "lucid". That was a "ludicrous" blunder!

Stephan Lehmke

@PauloCereda This is the only reference I could find to tie torus and tortoise together:

isfa.univ-lyon1.fr/vmaume/sites/default/files/documents/…

(incredibly hard to link to a PDF found with google...)

Jake

7:30 PM

@StephanLehmke I think that's because the links in Google search results include a tracking URL, instead of directly linking to the file/website. Really frustrating if you just want to copy the URL. DuckDuckGo.com is one way to get the google results without the google tracking

Stephan Lehmke

@BrunoLeFloch Incidentally, here pdftex segfaulted, tex didn't (emergency stop).

@Jake Yea, especially for PDF where you only get the PDF in acroread (maybe it's different when using a plugin). For a website you at least eventually reach the real thing.

Andrew Stacey

If it's a torus, it's a duplicate:

13

Q: How to draw a torus

Is there an easy way to draw a contour image of torus below with tikz? Or for that matter with any other graphics package.

tikz-pgf diagrams

Marco Daniel

@AndrewStacey: Nice package name: Hobby ;-)

Andrew Stacey

@MarcoDaniel Working title that never got changed. (Most of my papers end up that way, with one exception where the working title was boring and some suggested a more exciting name.) ... (Exciting for mathematicians, that is)

Marco Daniel

@PauloCereda I visited a meeting with guys from Poland, Austria, Denmark and Germany (of course) ;-)

Joseph Wright

7:45 PM

@AndrewStacey I suspect @StephanLehmke's picture earlier is closest, but the questioner wants not a closed 'doughnut' but a helix. So I think it's about showing construction lines, or perhaps what would happen if you made a helix from a slinky spring.

Stephan Lehmke

@JosephWright Well he says "A helix torus is a torus that uses helices it instead of small parallel(w.r.t to the torus) circles." As the circles are usually just "painted on" or look like part of the frame construction, I assume the helix will look more "painted on" the surface.

Joseph Wright

@StephanLehmke Perhaps. Without an edit I'm really not confident I truly understand!

Stephan Lehmke

@JosephWright Yep. The only thing which seems to be crystal clear is that his illustration doesn't represent the desired object at all :-(

Joseph Wright

@StephanLehmke Well I've commented, and if we don't get anything useful I'll close it

Paulo Cereda

@StephanLehmke ooh neat! :)

@MarcoDaniel <3

cmhughes

8:45 PM

@JosephWright I think your description of a helix from a slinky spring is spot on

@JosephWright this question was closed as a duplicate; I think it is certainly a duplicate, but not of the one that got linked tex.stackexchange.com/questions/70281/…

not sure if it even matters?

Joseph Wright

@cmhughes Well, you can comment and ask for reopening (so it can be 'tidied up')

cmhughes

@JosephWright it's ok, I just wondered if it matters. My comment is still there with what I think is a useful link, but even then I don't think it's an exact duplicate. I suppose the OP will comment if they have a follow-up...

Joseph Wright

@cmhughes Well, the voting system is there to allow people to have an input :-)

I only vote when it looks really clear (as my vote is binding)

cmhughes

@JosephWright of course :) It was more of an idol wondering

egreg

@cmhughes I concur: I voted for closing, but I was wrong.

cmhughes

8:54 PM

@egreg I think my comment about putting the section number in the margin was relevant, but the OP didn't respond. If he truly wants to do it the way he describes (without using the margin) then it's not a duplicate (imho)

Joseph Wright

@cmhughes I'll comment, and as the OP to let us know which it is. I can then quickly 'tidy up' if needed.

cmhughes

@JosephWright thanks a lot :) it would be sad to put off a new user by closing a question for potentially the wrong reason

Joseph Wright

@cmhughes Comment added

cmhughes

@JosephWright thanks :)

if he doesn't want to use the margin idea, the adjustwidth environment could be a good option

cmhughes

9:29 PM

@percusse yes, now that you mention it I do remember. He posted so many questions and then flamed all of the answers. You're right about letting the whole situation cool down.

Paulo Cereda

10:19 PM

Guys, guys! I found the name of my future Wi-fi network!

Parangaricutirimícuaro

Nuevo San Juan Parangaricutiro é uma vila de 15 mil habitantes (INEGI 2000), localizada no município de Nuevo Parangaricutiro, estado de Michoacán, México. O povoado foi reconstruído depois de uma erupção vulcânica em 1943, e atualmente se beneficia do turismo ao redor do vulcão e pelas ruínas do velho San Juan, onde somente a parte superior da igreja sobressai sobre a lava. É também conhecido como Parangaricutirimícuaro, popularizado pelo travalínguas "desparangaricutirimicuarizóse el otorrinolaringogólogo de Parangaricutirimícuaro" "El pueblo de Parangaricutirimícuaro se va a desparan...

@GonzaloMedina: The Spanish version of the Wikipedia article I linked above has some epic trabalenguas. Can you pronounce them? :)

"El pueblo de Parangaricutirimícuaro se va a desparangaricutirimicuarizar'.' Quien logre desparangaricutirimicuarizarlo gran desparangaricutirimicuarizador será".

'"El Otorrinolaringólogo de Parangaricutirimícuaro, quiere desotorrinolaringólogoparangaricutirimicuarizarse, el que lo desotorrinolaringólogoparangaricutirimicuarizare, un buen desotorrinolaringólogoparangaricutirimicuarizador será".

"En matrimonio dos parangaricutirimícuaros se quieren parangaricutirimicuarizar, ¡Ay! del pobre Paranguaricurimícuaro, porque más parangaricutirimicuaritos harán. Quien logre desparangaricutirimicu…

@Gonzalo: we should definitely create a parangalipsum package with those tongue-twisters. :P

2

egreg

@PauloCereda Se l'arcivescovo di Costantinopoli si disarcivescoviscostantinopolizzasse, ti disarcivescoviscostantinopolizzeresti tu? No, io non mi disarcivescoviscostantinopolizzerei mai se l'arcivescovo di Costantinopoli si disarcivescoviscostantinopolizzasse!

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Oh my! How can one pronounce that correctly? :)

Jack Schmidt

10:49 PM

Having trouble with expl3. Trying to split everything but the first token in #1.

\seq_new:N \l_stuff_seq
\tl_set:Nn \l_tmpa_tl {#1}
\seq_set_split:Nnn \l_stuff_seq {>} {\tl_tail:n \l_tmpa_tl}

I've tried several variants of split:Nn* but haven't figured out the magic

Harish Kumar

@cmhughes: I am not sure what the OP wants exactly (hence whether those packages are useful to him really) . Hence I went for a comment.

Gonzalo Medina

I swear to God that from now on I am going to remember the perpendicular coordinate system in TikZ!

2

egreg

@JackSchmidt What's #1 supposed to be?

Jack Schmidt

@egreg argument to the surrounding command. It will have a value like: 1 A > B > C > D

like a document level command

\seq_set_split:Nnn \l_stuff_seq {>} {#1}
results in {1 A} {B} {C} {D}
and I want to pull out that "1" from the {1 A} (preferably before the split, but after can work)

Gonzalo Medina

11:05 PM

@PauloCereda I had never heard the second one; it's really difficult! And we also have the "Obispo" one (in Spanish is just an "Obispo" and not an "Arzobispo", as in Italian); El Obispo de Constantinopla se quiere desconstantinopolizar; el desconstantinopolizador que lo desconstantinopolizase buen desconstantinopolizador será.

egreg

\RequirePackage{xparse}
\ExplSyntaxOn

\seq_new:N \l_stuff_seq
\cs_generate_variant:Nn \seq_set_split:Nnn {Nnx}

\NewDocumentCommand\jacksplit{m}
{
\tl_set:Nn \l_tmpa_tl {#1}
\seq_set_split:Nnx \l_stuff_seq {>} {\tl_tail:N \l_tmpa_tl}
\seq_show:N \l_stuff_seq
}
\ExplSyntaxOff
\jacksplit {1 A > B > C}

Gonzalo Medina

@PauloCereda Can you please provide a MWE with tongue-twisters in Portuguese?

egreg

@JackSchmidt You used \tl_tail:n which takes as argument a token list in braces

Jack Schmidt

ohhhhh

Paulo Cereda

@GonzaloMedina Sure! :) Let me see if I can remember some of them. :)

Jack Schmidt

11:09 PM

@egreg Perfect, thanks!

Qrrbrbirlbel

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

"This is the official short title of the law."

Is Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz a tongue-twister?

Gonzalo Medina

@Qrrbrbirlbel A little more than 4 seconds to pronounce it!

Jack Schmidt

@egreg Thanks again. In fact, I had that problem in another section of the code, but this part had masked the issue with fatal errors :-)

Gonzalo Medina

@Qrrbrbirlbel For me, it surely is!

Qrrbrbirlbel

:) But the German language is cheating, I guess.

Paulo Cereda

11:14 PM

O sabiá não sabia que o sábio sabia que o sabiá não sabia assobiar.
O rato roeu a roupa do rei de Roma, a rainha com raiva resolveu remendar.
Três pratos de trigo para três tigres.
A Iara agarra e amarra a rara arara de Araraquara. (ooh arara here!) :P
Bagre branco, branco bagre.
Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
O peito do pé do Pedro é preto.
Um ninho de mafagafos, com cinco mafagafinhos, quem desmafagafizar os mafagafos, bom desmafagafizador será.
A vaca malhada foi molhada por outra vaca molhada e malhada.

egreg

@JackSchmidt Of course you can do

 \seq_set_split:Nnx \l_stuff_seq {>} {\tl_tail:n {#1}}

You don't need to use \l_tmpa_tl

Gonzalo Medina

@PauloCereda Nice! The "tres tristes tigres comiendo trigo en tres tristes platos" is also very popular in Spanish.

Paulo Cereda

@GonzaloMedina Cool! :) I love tongue-twisters. :)

egreg

@GonzaloMedina We have "tre tigri contro tre tigri", which is quite difficult without a proper intonation.

Paulo Cereda

►

Qrrbrbirlbel

11:21 PM

@PauloCereda Unlimited compounding FTW :)

Paulo Cereda

@Qrrbrbirlbel I have no idea of what's happening there! :P

Gonzalo Medina

@PauloCereda no idea what it means, but I like how it sounds!

Paulo Cereda

@GonzaloMedina Me too! :)

Qrrbrbirlbel

Best part: "The best-known of them, three barbarians, came very often to the bar of the Rhubarb Barbara to eat from the Rhubarb Barbara's rhubarb cake so that they're shortly called the Rhubarb Barbara's bar's barbarians."

Paulo Cereda

@Qrrbrbirlbel oooh! :D

Gonzalo Medina

11:30 PM

@egreg I guess Italian and Spanish have very similar tongue-twisters.

Qrrbrbirlbel

It's simple: There's Barbara with her famous rhubarb cake that she sells in her bar. Then the barbarians who love to eat Barbara's rhubarb cake in her bar ... and their beards. And there's only on barber who is able to trim these beards.

This particular barber also loves to eat Barbara's cake and additionally likes to drink a beer to his cake.

And this beer is only sold at a special bar (a different one). Its owner is called Bärbel.

And Bärbel, the barber and the barbarians meet at Barbara's bar to eat Barbara's rhubarb cake.

And to drink beer!

Paulo Cereda

Oh. My. God!

Qrrbrbirlbel

My tongue feels dry only thinking about it ...

Paulo Cereda

@Qrrbrbirlbel :)

Qrrbrbirlbel

11:47 PM

german.SE has a full manuscript:

21

A: Gibt es andere Sätze wie "Wenn Fliegen hinter Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen hinterher"?

Nicht hundertprozentig im Kontext der Frage, aber, finde ich, doch irgendwie passend (weil: fast nur zu verstehen, wenn man es langsam vorgelesen bekommt). In einem kleinen Dorf wohnte einst ein Mädchen mit dem Namen Barbara. Barbara war in der ganzen Gegend für ihren ausgezeichneten Rha...

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