Ask Different Chat - 2012-07-30

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5:27 AM

er @bmike re apple.stackexchange.com/posts/58055/revisions... sh/could this have been a comment on the original question instead of an edit?

1 hour later…

6:51 AM

@NathanGreenstein Thanks for making me think! I'm using a much different way now that is soooo much easier and I can get much better quality material out of.

7:41 AM

4

A: How do I get rid of the clock in the menu-bar in Mac OSX?

Hold ⌘ and drag it out of the menu. If date and weekday are shown, they will also be removed. Alternatively, you can disable and customize the clock in: System Preferences → Date & Time → Clock.

Why are there to people posting the exact same answer after me?

We did not post at about the same time, so this is just weird...

@mods When does @community protect a question?

Only when a mod sets it.

I set it on your CW, for example.

why it says community set it is beyond me.

it might have some automatic trigger at a certain number of views maybe, I'm not sure

8:03 AM

@JasonSalaz I actually see that it was you who protected the question. But there are many other where I just see "protected by community".

8:58 AM

Does it say my name?

Haha whoops.

indeed it does say me

4 hours later…

12:39 PM

@GrahamPerrin The intent of my answer was to show that Mission Control has an exposé like window management option. "Mission Control for all Windows" does not necessarily mean than windows are not stacked. That's why I reversed your edit.

@NathanGreenstein I'm lost, the first thing I clicked was news. Took me 10+ minutes to work out how to get out. Then I found the normal windows mode, but no start menu. Trying to turn it off proved fruitless. In the end I told Parallels to switch it off for me.

1:29 PM

@gentmatt There is an algorithm for automatically protecting questions. I have some speculations about what triggers it, but like most of the system algorithms, I suspect it would be better not to publish the details of what triggers it.

@gentmatt There's no rule that one can't post an answer containing similar content as another answer, particularly if one is trying to explain the "same" answer more clearly, with screenshots, etc. That doesn't mean the second attempt will be a success; often it isn't.

Yeah. Ok. It's still strange and mysterious...

BTW:

56

Q: Which new features in Mountain Lion are poorly documented?

Request Please list a feature, an enhancement that is either: not documented by Apple; or poorly documented. If documentation elsewhere is poor, you can add value here in Ask Different: put the feature into context explain how to use the feature if necessary, provide a picture. Guidanc...

osx hidden-features mountain-lion

That last edit by @GrahamPerrin was pretty radical. What do you think @DanielLawson?

He's been editing quite a lot during the last hour.

I do not like this new edit to the question as it's too long. People might not want to read it all.

I don't like it either, and "Downgrades" are already covered by a different question.

I'd say roll it back if you're not comfortable with it.

Yeah.

The edit does not add much new value.

Hi @stuffe

hi

1:36 PM

Tore yourself away from watching the Games?

:-)

(I'm enjoying them)

Coverage here is AMAZING

I didn't watch any so far. No medal for glorious Germany ;)

Every event, live, in HD, free, no adverts

Lovely

But China's swimmers...

1:38 PM

@gentmatt Maybe your athletes would do better if they knew you were cheering them on.

Not sure about the colloquial applicability to anyone else out of the UK, but I watched some weightlifting earlier, and apparently the Turkish women lifter has a lovely snatch :)

It's not like in soccer where you gather with your friends in front of the TV. The pubs aren't crowded here.

I'd like to watch the 100m sprinting finals tough.

Interesting! I attended a party to watch the opening ceremonies, and have indeed gathered with friends to watch the coverage of the various events.

Don't you guys think it's weird that there a several new swimming records already even though nobody is allowed to use theses nano suits anymore?

I don't know about weird, but I find it impressive.

@stuffe On TV or streaming via internet?

1:43 PM

@DanielLawson BOTH!

Then I'd prefer the HD streaming as I don't have a HD TV

Me neither

The preliminary football matches I was watching on my computer earlier this week were in amazing resolution.

@gentmatt Pool technology, as started in China last time, but apparently having deeper pools, and extra lanes at the sides, reduces turbulance from other swimmers (think of water rebounding off the floor and sides etc

The content on my non-HD TV had terrible reception, although I just discovered that the wire running to my digital-to-analog converter box was loose; replugging it amazingly improved the reception!

@stuffe Ok, haven't heard about those changes so I thought about different water temperatures.

1:48 PM

If you can get a VPN to the UK, then use the BBC website

7

Q: Is the Notification Center in Mountain Lion not working as expected?

I'm trying to understand how to get Notifications working properly in Mountain Lion. I understand all the concepts about how to enable them, and configure them etc, but it doesn't seem to work as advertised. I'll use Safari as my example here: I have the following preferences set in both Syste...

mountain-lion notification-center

3k views, 4 favourites, and no answers yet :(

Also, tantalisingly close to a nice question :)

Well, there are 3 answers, but they've all been deleted as "not an answer"

This answer rocks:

2

A: Can I get the original Mac font Chicago on a Mountain Lion Mac?

The last version of the OS to use this font as default was System 7. For Mac OS 8, Apple decided to discard this wonderful part of their brand’s identity, and commissioned David Berlow of the Font Bureau to design Charcoal. Apple actually released System 7 for free download here. Concei...

I really should give it a bounty, but I just got back to 10K and am not eager to lose rep again, but if anyone else agrees how awesome the answer is, give the author some upvotes.

2:03 PM

as someone who only used Tiger for 2 weeks, I don't feel qualified to get all nostalgic ;)

@DanielLawson 3 on my question?

yes

This is why we need to get you more rep, so you can see deleted answers.

oh, i cant see them

i had no idea

right. You need 10K (or to win a moderator election)

soon

well, there's no elections for a while, so we'd better work on the first one :-)

2:08 PM

only 200, would be 100 if not for 2 bounties

what did they say?

Three people joined in to say they had either the same problem or a different problem.

'Doh. Yeah, you're right.

1

A: How can I open a single app by an unidentified developer without allowing all

To enable the execution of an app against the policy that you have set in System Preferences, then you can simply right click on the app in question, and click open. This will produce a further "Are you sure?" check, but will allow you to open an app and over-rule your app signature settings wit...

I thought he was looking for all apps.

Then I edited my answer to allow just one.

But your way is much simpler.

2:28 PM

Both are good.

Mine works for a one-off execution.

Yours is great for an unofficial whitelist for repeated execution.

So parallels is apparently Adware. What should I buy instead?

And that answer I was so eager to give a bounty to… hasn't been up long enough to assign a bounty. So I just need to slow down.

Im wrong, i thought the way i suggested needed running each time, appaently once only

@DanielLawson no objection to the rollback but it seemed that the previous layout of the question wasn't helping readers to pay attention to key points ;-)

@stuffe Right. That's why your answer (once corrected) was so much simpler than mine.

@GrahamPerrin Thanks for the edit. The OP doesn't have the option to use it if you don't suggest it.

Sometimes a dramatic rewrite can really clarify what a post is about.

In this case, I didn't realize until re-reading a few times that it was the same question. I think some degree of stability is desirable in a post that's so visible.

2:43 PM

@GrahamPerrin That's because the original question was not strict enough. It was discussed in the comments and later updated.

I would prefer the question to not get too long as it would discourage people from paying attention to the few key points. Some of use have short attention spans these days ;)

2

2:57 PM

@jtbandes Absolutely. As the author of the answer if you are not delighted about me or someone adding a substantial change, you can and should edit it mercilessly or roll it back. Use the comments field to let people know why you rolled it back (so we mods and high rep users can see the reasoning)

I do try to edit answers rather than comment when I feel part of a question wasn't answered - but if you roll this back - I can always see the notification, and then decide to have a dialog with you or post it elsewhere or move on.

@gentmatt maybe a partially dyslexic thing for me; when my attention span is short, I find it easier to get the (same) key points from bullets. Italics are especially troublesome. YMMV and moreover, respect for you as the opening poster.

3:13 PM

Adware?

Think you should bring this to the normal chat room TBH, if you want to talk about it.

3:31 PM

@JustinDearing ping, btw

3:41 PM

VMware fusion has earned my respect for engineering excellence, issuing major updates for free to users that have purchased products earlier in the development of the product.

Parallels did earn a lot of user loyalty when it started out, but it's handling of this advertisement program seems oddly ham-fisted to me.

← 6 messages moved from Virtualization

Rich Bradshaw, United Kingdom

227 2 8

iphone ipod-touch mac mac-mini multiple-displays osx pdf

Lol, this is a funny post: apple.stackexchange.com/revisions/58242/1

@gentmatt re apple.stackexchange.com/questions/58509/… there may be use cases where right-click is not the most convenient method … I'll get back to you on this hopefully before the end of this week. My head's a little stuck in the mode that it was before GM was released – sorry I can't be clearer right now!

I'm curious to know what cases you have in mind.

3:57 PM

57

Q: What un(der)-documented features have you stumbled upon in Mountain Lion?

This question serves to share and collect the enhancements which are not documented by Apple, or documented poorly. Please justify your answer; if it is something that is well documented by Apple and elsewhere on the web, it does not belong here. Your answer should put the feature into context, ...

osx hidden-features mountain-lion

I really hate the changes of the title of this question over time.

We've neutered the title in an attempt to satisfy the twice yearly visitors, and as it stands none of the answers are "stumbled upon" at all and thus don't fit the question any more

@bmike From what I understand they implemented a method for providing partner information to users via a notification style system. But this can be turned off. However messages from Parallels cannot be turned off. That about sum it up?

Nathan Greenstein

@stuffe This can be turned off with a Terminal command whose existence they deny...

I'm not aware of the turn off command exactly, and how to acheive it.

But I have just started using parallels again (V7) after using V3 when I was a switcher

As yet, I've had no such messages from anyone while using it.

Nathan Greenstein

defaults write com.parallels.Parallels\ Desktop ProductPromo.ForcePromoOff -bool YES

It seems like I get an ad for Kaspersky or Carbonite or someone every other time I launch a VM

@stuffe true that the question now is very different from the opening question. (If I had realised that under-documentation was not within the opening, I might have refrained from down-voting some of the answers.) But it's the sort of question that did need tightening, to generate a greater proportion of answers that add value, so …

… I guess that given time, the set of answers will become as attractive as those under apple.stackexchange.com/q/400/8546

It's a funny one. We know what those CW questions are really for, but we feel the need to dress them up as something else to keep the SE community on side, people who only show up at such times when we have a new CW anyway, and who then moan about them.

4:12 PM

@stuffe I don't like that many revisions at all, but there were justified concerns with the previous wording. My current concern at the moment is not the wording of "stumbled upon" to indicate a "hidden" or "little documented" feature. My concern is rather that there are already a few answers which are not new to Mountain Lion and should get deleted.

@stuffe I think of less in terms of visitor frequency or community engagement; more about whether an answer (or set of answers) will add value beyond what's elsewhere on the 'net.

@gentmatt For a question that has changed substantially, do mods and other people refrain from deleting answers (or suggesting deletion) in case it alienates users? Just curious.

@GrahamPerrin Some conditions changed, but Lion features were never meant to be added as answers. This CW was and is Mountain Lion only.

@gentmatt understood

Anyone please, remind me: if an answer is deleted (and becomes invisible to the public), does that answer remain visible to the registered user who posted it?

/me goes looking. Slaps self for being lazy.

My apple.stackexchange.com/a/39244/8546 (deleted by me) remains visible to me. I guess that behaviour would be no different if someone other than me had deleted my answer.

@gentmatt FWIW I reckon (a) add a horizontal rule and sentence to the question to politely explain that some deletions will be necessary; and (b) delete without hesitation.

Explanation might include a link to a point in this discussion.

4:38 PM

@GrahamPerrin Anything that is deleted can be seen by the author and the people with 10k mod tools and up.

@GrahamPerrin If someone makes a good-faith effort to answer a question as posted, then subsequent clarification makes that answer no longer correct/relevant, I have always been loathe to do anything to cost reputation to the original helpful answerer. I hate to see the prompt responder penalized for a lack of clarity on the part of the asker.

(I do have two current posts of my own that fall into this category, but my adherence to this policy is not at all dependent on that situation.)

@DanielLawson I believe the system lets you keep all rep for deleted questions as long as the deletion happens 30 days after the post.

Let me check to see...

That's great for long-term cleanup, but obviously not so much for same day stuff.

Blog - Stack Exchange: Reputation and Historical Archives

Shog9 on March 05, 2012

If you’ve been around Meta Stack Overflow the past few days, you’ve seen a fair bit of conversation sparked by the recent changes to how reputation is calculated:

To be clear: reputation values are not changing, every action in the system is still worth the same amount. Here’s what will be different:

Your reputation will be correct at all times

Deletions will have a much more immediate effect on reputation, not waiting on a recalc (but reputation sync takes up to 5 minutes on a delete/undelete action; as to not block the user’s response thread, it’s offloaded to a background queue) …

So - you keep reputation for things that are upvoted three times and sit on the site for 30 days.

The reasoning is that if you provide content of "lasting value" even if it's later wrong, you should keep the reputation the community has given you for adding value for 30 or more days. Conversely, it prevents huge down swings in reputation.

4:53 PM

That is a good thing.

Yes - people could lose rep if it's judged not worth keeping for 30 days, but I think this is a nice balance to prevent rep farming.

What's rep farming?

Oh - if someone posts things that shouldn't be worthy of voting - it gives the site 30 days to see upvoted content and either downvote it or delete it.

5:09 PM

Anyone home?

nope

Kk

How do I edit what shows in the finder sidebar?

I want to show the Network list.

depends on the OS level and is finicky

@bmike I'm on ML.

user image

Network doesn't seem to be one of the choices, and you can't drag it to the sidebar.

5:12 PM

Also, you can re-arrange, remove, add etc, all drag and drop directly within the finder :)

Right, noticed that.

Ok, one more question, about the ML challenge.

@Moshe The contest rules are pretty thorough at the bottom of the contest page...

but ask anyway

@bmike This is the third time you've bountied apple.stackexchange.com/questions/23935/… What makes the question so important?

@DanielLawson I effin want the ability to force my cards on N only. How hard would it to be to program in a wildcard for the channel parameter in airport?

Also the sad excuse for a man page of that binary is pitiful.

I reference that question in the bug reports I file with Apple on the issue.

5:22 PM

I'm having trouble imagining the use case where no connection is better than a slow connection.

@DanielLawson Simple - I want to do network testing using a Mac. I need to make measurements of throughput on a simultaneous dual band router to determine which channel to use.

Ah. So it's not for practical use; it's for diagnostic use. That makes sense.

Pinning the card on my mac lets me do my tests live without taking down the entire router to test. That means I can do my work during the daytime instead of driving to client sites in off hours when there isn't congestion with neighboring computers and traffic.

This makes sense. Having never been a computer professional, and only configured networks for relatives (with the standard being "Can I get on the internet or no"), this is way beyond anything I've ever tried to do. But I now see how it would be helpful.

@DanielLawson In practice - it's useful as well. The selection algorithm for joining appears to join in signal strength and not transmit rate / MCX index. I want to join the fastest network, not the loudest signal in many cases.

5:26 PM

That seems like a real bug for end users!

Does it optimize for loudest, fastest, or highest on the priority list?

802.11 b/g travels through walls better than a/n so often the strength is less, but still good enough signal to noise ratio (often much better signal to noise since 2.4 GHz is so darn noisy in many places).

2

@stuffe The 75 point thing, don't get it.

@DanielLawson It can't optimize for fastest in a practical sense. You only negotiate a link speed once the network is joined. So it would have to join the N - test, disassociate and join the G and test and then make a choice.

right.

@Moshe not points. net upvotes

@DanielLawson Ooooh

Ok

5:28 PM

I agree it's an edge case - I just want my cake in this case :-)

@bmike The cake is a lie

2

@Moshe me neither ;)

@DanielLawson I know this steak doesn't exist.

1 hour later…

6:41 PM

@stuffe ICMP reply

So VMWare fusion seems to be the way to go?

7:16 PM

@DanielLawson AFAIR in Lion and Mountain Lion the (Snow Leopard) expression Network is simply superseded by Shared

@bmike thanks for the link to the blog post, is the period thirty days or (as in the blog) sixty?

1 hour later…

8:45 PM

@GrahamPerrin I'd trust the blog was correct at the time it was written and meta if it was updated later than the blog. I have no way of knowing the details as I have no access to the actual site code. Is there conflicting information?

@JustinDearing I personally don't see it as much of an issue.

But we do love a good privacy fuss :)

9:17 PM

@bmike sixty days according to the blog, thirty days according to discussion above

@stuffe I dont see it as privacy, just annoying. Like getting commercials on HBO.

Well, I'm yet to see one, but apparently it's at the rate of like a couple a week, and you can turn them of - is that hassle worth $40 on a different VM product? If so, then fine. Fusion is good, VirtualBox is also good and free, although it cannot access bootcamp partitions

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