The Playground

8:33 AM

@joe that's total visits, not unique. These are the stats; mods might have moce precise data, but even with the public stats the traffic is amazing. It will be interesting to see how of these new folks become long-term users. A number of people probably came because of the two advertised topics, then left again.

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

8:59 AM

"these are the PUBLIC stats" - "to see how MANY of these new" - those words are missing above. (my mobile keyboard is flaky today, sorry!)

Beofett

4:09 PM

0

A: How to decide which stroller to buy?

Buying a best baby stroller is biggest challenge for parents. So decision of buying a stroller should be taken on the basis of your lifestyle. if you love jogging then go for jogging stroller or other wise can go for umbrella stroller. The second thing to consider is safety , Check for wheel of ...

Anyone feel that some intervention is necessary for this answer? It advertises a website, but the poster clearly discloses their affiliation.

Joe

4:42 PM

I'd vote for deletion, personally

It doesn't really answer the question

Beofett

You can flag it as spam (and our help center warns that that is exactly what may happen)

"The community tends to vote down overt self-promotion and flag it as spam. Post good, relevant answers, and if some (but not all) happen to be about your product or website, that’s okay. However, you must disclose your affiliation in your answers.

If a large percentage of your posts include a mention of your product or website, you're probably here for the wrong reasons. Our advertising rates are quite reasonable; contact our ad sales team for details. We also offer free community promotion ads for open source projects and non-profit organizations."

I'm just so surprised that the user acknowledged it's their site, my instinct to delete is confused :P

usually they try and disguise it

Joe

4:57 PM

lol

Will flag-as-spam go to someone other than you?

Interesting - the flag specifically mentions "with no disclosure".

Perhaps that should be okay

Beofett

@Joe It goes into the flag queue, which is visible to all the mods (I think spam flags are also one that is visible in the high-rep user flag review queue, too)

Joe

5:12 PM

Yeah, that's what I thought... just was confused by your wording (given if you wanted to action it you could without me :)

wasn't sure if spam made its way up to SE folks or something

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

It doesn't exactly look like spam to me... yes, it advertises her website but it doesn't (at first glance) seem to be a commercial enterprise. I think the answer is low quality because it doesn't really answer the question - but spam is something else to me.

Joe

I don't think spam goes to the 10k users

though perhaps

Her website is commercial, in that it's links to amazon

that she will get referral credit from

If it were a really good website I would have a different opinion, but there's little original material there

VLQ sounds good, though

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@Joe i don't see a spam flag

@Joe but I do see this one

Joe

I didn't flag it as spam

Jeremy Miller

5:35 PM

Not sure what question I was supposed to ask in the chat room, but since Meta seems to be hostile, I've deleted my post and will stay out of there.

Joe

?

Jeremy Miller

Actually, after further consideration, Parenting SE isn't a place I feel comfortable. A general attitude of "my view is correct" instead of "my view is my view" seems to be too pervasive (as opposed to all-pervasive). I will stick with SE forums where answers are not as highly subjective. I wish you all the best.

Beofett

@JeremyMiller I wish I had been aware of the comment discussion going on there.

Personally, I upvoted your answer (before the comment discussion)

I would have deleted the very first comment as soon as I saw it, as I don't believe that sort of thing is appropriate, and I completely understand why it would contribute to you feeling that meta is hostile

I apologize that you received responses like that.

Jeremy Miller

@Beofett Thanks. I'm just someone who prefers to avoid negativity than fight about stuff, but I do appreciate your kindness.

Beofett

@JeremyMiller For what its worth, you could have flagged the comments, and a moderator would have been happy to intervene

I would very much like it if you would consider staying, or at least taking a temporary break and then re-evaluating if you would like to come back. We don't want to lose any user who is interested and willing to participate, as you have been, and it would be shame to lose you, particularly over something that could have, and should have, had moderator intervention.

Jeremy Miller

5:45 PM

Thanks. I just saw them as expressing their view. I was taken aback by the last comment actually where I was told to ask a question here -- I don't even know what question I asked.

I'll accept that advice, Beofett. I believe that taking time before making decisions is always a good idea. :) Thanks again!

Beofett

@JeremyMiller My pleasure, and I"m glad that you'll consider coming back. Thanks!

Dariusz

6:08 PM

@JeremyMiller hostile? I wish I saw whatever made you think that. I've been here for a few months now and I think it's one of the most positive and helpful places in the whole Internet. Seriously.

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

6:19 PM

@JeremyMiller I'm sorry if you felt my comment was hostile - that was not my intention. You're probably aware that meta is where policy is discussed, and that is a less moderated and more no-holds-barred arena. You're right that Parenting.SE is subjective and that is why it's more of an experiment than most other SE sites - for exactly these reasons. It can be difficult to get the right balance of things.

@JeremyMiller It was me who referred to the chat, but we often do that because a long list of comments is not a useful format to discuss things. I honestly wanted to continue a conversation and I wanted to use the most suitable place for it.

Now that you've deleted the post, I can't answer what your questions were - but I suggested chat simply because questions aren't easily answered in comments - not because of the questions themselves.

@Dariusz I can understand why it came across as hostile; there were some remarks in the style of "my view is correct," as Jeremy puts it. Parenting isn't a hard science, but some people treat it as such - I guess I am guilty of that too occasionally.

Beofett

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun Actually, the first comment was "Horrific response", which I think is uncalled for.

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@Beofett yes, I recall that comment now. That should have been flagged (why didn't I?!)

Beofett

The part that I liked about his answer was that he pointed out that answers that make the distinction between "force" and "physical violence" could help users who believe in corporal punishment, but which may be confusing anger with discipline... "get a better balance", and thereby make them better parents.

It brought to mind a recent answer that supported corporal punishment as a concept, but which also clearly stated that it should never be used in anger.

If someone believes in spanking (and clearly some of our users do, albeit a small portion), and they see that, it may help them realize that they need to be careful about how and when they apply it. I can't see how this would be anything other than beneficial.

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

I wonder whether @JeremyMiller would consider to un-un-delete the topic. After a reasonable moderator rinse.

I also felt that the topic itself was excellent - and something that would be good to have covered in our meta. Especially because it's controversial.

Jeremy Miller

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun I was just commenting that I liked your comment and that that was the whole point of my "answer" -- that we can all learn. I had no intention of saying anything else as I felt it was done. Then there was your post about asking a question -- I was commenting (yes, there was a rhetorical question, but I obv wasn't asking it ;) ) Your comment made me reflect on my previous parenting skills which I thought was the whole point of my answer... we can help each other.

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

6:31 PM

Anybody can create a similar topic anew, of course. But it would be a shame to miss out on the good content it contained.

@JeremyMiller oops, I didn't read it as rhetorical - my bad! Apologies for that!

Jeremy Miller

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun Fair enough. The problems with communicating w/o inflection and physical expression, eh?

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun I didn't flag b/c it was at my response and I don't like censoring opinions, so I tried to address it, though, ofc, I was offended -- esp since it ignored the entire nature of my answer and focused only on what was disliked.

@everyone Thanks for the discussion here on the merits of my answer -- I know there is almost no agreement on my prior methods, but acceptance that discussion can be fruitful and educational. :)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

... A quick pit stop (=diaper change) between comments :-) I'm back again.

Jeremy Miller

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun wb... family first!

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@JeremyMiller don't worry, you can never flag too much :)

Beofett

@JeremyMiller There's a difference, imo, between censoring opinions, and requesting that opinions be rephrased in a polite and constructive manner. We can have discussion without insults (I hope! Although I do have a three year old at home...)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

6:38 PM

@JeremyMiller you're welcome. hope to see you around!

Beofett

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun I am soooo looking forward to being done with that!

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

(bye for now - bedtime in GMT+1)

Beofett

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun g'night!

Jeremy Miller

@Beofett Fair enough

Sleep well, Torben

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

wait :-D I'm not the one going to bed :-D my boys are! It's 19:40 here now. They're 1+4yo.

Beofett

6:43 PM

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun well, then... nevermind! :P

Jeremy Miller

Oh, lol!

Joe

lol

wish my kids went to bed by 20:00...

22:00 if I'm lucky

sigh

Beofett

same... my son doesn't go to be until after 21:00

Joe

23:00 lately

Beofett

I'm just grateful that he seems to picked up his mother's ability to fall asleep quickly, instead of the 1-3 hours that it normally takes me.

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

6:49 PM

if it's any consolation, my kids are wide awake at 06:00 at the latest :-/

Joe

same here...

Hoping they go off naps and sleep more at night once my wife starts staying at home with them

nex tmonth

Beofett

07:00- 08:00 for my son

he fell asleep at the dinner table last night, at a restaurant, at around 19:00 because my mother-in-law babysat all day.

Joe

lol

My older one falls asleep at lunch at daycare

Beofett

Her idea of putting him down for a nap is "do you want a nap? No? Okay, I tried...."

Joe

lol

Jeremy Miller

6:57 PM

You all make me feel old talking about all the young ones -- mine's 14 now! Still remember all the days of her throwing up on me, though, lol.

Beofett

@JeremyMiller For what its worth... we started late. I'm 40. Not sure if that still makes you feel old or not...

Jeremy Miller

@Beofett I started early (22) and wanted to be done by the time I was 32 (was thinking that I wanted all the kids out of the house by 50yo, lol. Only ended up with one, though.

Beofett

My plan is to have him settled into a career so he can pay for our retirement :P

Joe

lol

good luck with that

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@JeremyMiller This is great -- the site has lots of small-kids content but very little for older kids.

I turn 40 in March... just thinking that makes me feel old, but inside we're all still boys - just with more expensive toys :-)

Beofett

7:07 PM

@Joe thanks! At the rate he's going, he may have a stand-up comedy gig by the time he's 6. I'm not sure how well that will pay, though :P

(totally kidding about the kid paying for our retirement, btw... just in case it wasn't clear)

Joe

Oh, in many cultures that's the norm

Beofett

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun very true :)

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun speaking of which... my media computer died, so I took it as an excuse to rebuild it as a dual OS Ubuntu/Windows box

My first linux PC, and my first time touching a Linux OS since SCO introduced their first GUI

@Joe my wife and I discussed it quite a bit. We have absolutely no interest in pushing our son to be financially succesful. We want him to be happy, and recognize that making a lot of money may or may not have anything to do with that.

Jeremy Miller

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun I noticed that, too. Nice to discuss all ages of parenting -- 'cause it doesn't even stop at 18!

Beofett

We are working to make him financially intelligent though, so he'll have both options at his disposal (or at least be better prepared in that regard than I was)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@Beofett 1) make lots of money. 2) have fun with what you do. 3) Work within the law. -- choose any two!

@Beofett i've linked to the simple dollar a few times, good advice there

www.thesimpledollar.com

Beofett

7:18 PM

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun That's where we've gotten most of our planning ideas from (and you get full credit for introducing me to that site)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

but basically "spend < earn" is all one needs to know

Beofett

I subscribe to the RSS feed for his parenting tag

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

glad to help .-)

ha! so do i

Beofett

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun I knew that, and it really isn't enough.

Joe

spend < earn ... so simple to say ;)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

7:20 PM

left-hand typiung.... bottle feeding the 1yo. now off to bed. bAck later

Beofett

I didn't get my first credit card until I was 33. I always spent within my means. But... I also didn't do anything really to save up for the future, aside from my basic 401k

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

7:49 PM

I heard advice to start putting money into pension when I started university - but I didn't follow that advice for several years, and in the meantime I've realized that those early years are worth so much. Now, at 40, I'm wondering whether I do/can save enough. Either way, financial stuff is something that needs to be aligned with the spouse - lots of stories where a couple is not in agreement, and that's a recipe for trouble.

Beofett

My wife has received a better grounding in managing finances; however, it largely translates into "spend as little money as you possibly can." She and I are in agreement that that... is not much fun :)

Amusingly enough, she's working on getting better at spending money on fun stuff.

We're both on the same pages when it comes to finance, though.

We've agreed to do the whole thing where our son gets allowance, and then has to split it into "money to save/spend, money to invest, and money for charity"

Joe

8:13 PM

Perhaps she can talk to my wife? =/

Neither of us are much good with finances

we've relied mostly on making enough money for it not to matter too much

but we both tend to buy things that are small without thinking about money

which of course when you buy lots of small things becomes... less small

I'm concerned once she starts staying at home primarily, that we'll have more money issues than we do now

we'll see...

hard to know how we'll deal with it in advance, sadly

how well I'll take her buying things with "my" money, when I think they're in excess

even though I intellectually understand it's not "my" money

how my emotional hindbrain will take that...

Beofett

"making enough money for it not to matter too much" and "buying things that are small without thinking about money" sums me up pretty well.

I make a good amount more than my wife, although we both work full time (she works for the government, though, which pays notoriously poorly... if you're not an elected official)

Part of our approach is to divide bills proportionally to our income, rather than evenly. Thus, I pay the majority of the bills in direct proportion to my earning the majority of our income

in theory this could leave the remainder as a "50/50 split"

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

8:34 PM

I have never been able to grasp the thing with separate finances in marriage. My wife and I have a single shared account, and all we earn and spend is in there. We're a team, and as long as we can må e ends meet, want to think "my" money vs "hers". Works so far, despite having different income levels. It would only if we split up, but obviously we're not planning on :-)

MAKE ends meet. Thank you again, mobile keyboard...

Would only MATTER if we split up...

Joe

Well

Some of it comes from us having had separate accounts for a long time pre-marriage

though we've been together since college, we got married around ten years later

so we're just both used to having them

Some of it is preferring to avoid arguments over small things

if we have a feeling that we have 'our' account and individual accounts both

big things and bills come from 'our'

small things from individual accounts, and we can't argue with how the other spends the individual account, so long as the shared account is not shorted

Beofett

My wife and I have separate accounts, and a shared one. In all honesty, that's because of me. I've been reluctant to merge our accounts, largely because I'm worried that I'll feel like I'm spending "her" money unwisely or unfairly if I spend it on things that I like, but which she doesn't (like video games, my computer, my rock collection, my lapidary equipment/materials, etc.).

Plus I fear it will make it harder to buy her "surprise" gifts.

it's probably unrealistic, and possibly even childish of me, I know.

Joe

8:49 PM

lol

We have a joint amazon account

That limits our ability to buy surprise gifts =/

Beofett

heh she's got a prime account, but I don't... seems rather unfair to me :P

Joe

9:03 PM

Exactly why we have the joint account ;)

and sharing kindle books

ebooks are truly evil, though...

Beofett

@Joe She's a Nook user. I'm... a Luddite. I got a Nook at her insistence. I read one book on it. I just can't get into not having real paper

Joe

when we were reading physical books, we had a physical limitation

had to have enough shelf space for books we bought :)

now that we read them on kindle...

(on our phones, really)

looked at our book count the other day...

waaaaaaaaaay too many

Beofett

books... real, physical books, are one of those "small things" I spend waaay too much money on :)

We have a whole room designated as a library, and my books don't all fit there :P

Joe

When we moved from our apartment (to our house, when we were going to have our first), we sold ~70% of our book collection

which was ... 40? boxes or so

ie, went through and kept the books we might read again

because it would've cost too much to move them all...

Beofett

I think I could conceive of selling maybe... 10% of my books, tops. I'm a book hoarder :P

Joe

9:12 PM

So were we

Beofett

Anyway, time for me to head out. See you later :)

Joe

But neither of us really reread much

see you!

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

10:11 PM

@Beofett (just like Trent) ;)

@Joe forty boxes?! holy cow, thats a lot of books. Had you read them all?

Joe

Yep

Well, between my wife and I

we'd each probably read 60-70%

I did work at a bookstore for 6 years

so I'm sure that made a difference

but our post-bookstore kindle buying habits suggest, not that much

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

I don't have a lot of books, myself, and books are shared among the extended family so you could say we just have a distributed library. :)

Joe

other than reducing the cost :)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@Joe oh yes, that explains a lot, just like IT people usually have several computers under their home desk (not to mention those in the closet ... basement ... garage... ahem)

Joe

haha

Oddly, now that I'm in IT (programming/development, not hardware), I have fewer computers

than I did before (gaming, mostly, when I was younger)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

10:15 PM

My grandparents had a "library" room in their very large apartment. I loved being there. I don't have that in my house; it's very small.

Joe

just a laptop, really... my desktop exists but hasn't been used in years

We have a living room = library

Eventually will add on to the house and probably make a library then :)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

I can't see myself using a laptop. Too small, and cost/performance is still higher than for desktops. I'm probably way too cost-aware, but that's me.

Joe

or else, if our two boys decide to stay in one room when they're older (we have a 3br, right now they live in one room, will let them choose when they're older), use that as a library/guest room :)

Nowadays, laptops are pretty close on performance

and the difference isn't terribly important

for 95% of use cases

obviously that depends on your job/hobby/etc.

but for me at least, it's much more beneficial to be able to work in (anywhere)

rather than gain a little bit of performance

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

I prefer to have a "real" workstation on my desk where all my paperwork is, and a i7 machine with 16GB RAM would cost a small fortune if it were a laptop. Computing is a desktop activity for me. Mobile: my Android will have to suffice. I don't own a proper tablet and I'm not sure it would fill any gap.

Joe

ah, paperwork

looking forward to the day that word doesn't apply anymore ;)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

10:25 PM

heh, dream on. The amount of paper in use on this planet roughly doubled when IBM introduced the "personal computer". Go figure.

aaaanyway, not it's my turn to hit the pillow. Good night :-)

Joe

Lol

Good night!

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