Only Iswara or Avatar has power to create, preserve or destroy cosmos. We can't do that. Even Jivanmukta won't get such powers. It's simple, because we can''t have multiple Iswaras. Ishwara must be one.
@RakeshJoshi After Videhimukta, they become Nirguna Brahman or they realize they are Nirguna Brahman.
@RakeshJoshi Not only terminology, context also important. Without context, you misunderstand Advaita. Forget Advaita, CONTEXT is important for everything.
@RakeshJoshi Advaita is indeed complicated Subject. Vedas are indeed complicated Subjects. Your Guru must taught you about context. Why don't you give importance for context?
@RakeshJoshi Did you read any Bhashya of Vedantins? Shankara, ramanuja interprets "Nirguna" differently. Shankara says Nirguna means "no attributes" and Ramanuja says "No inauspicious Attributes"
my question first is not the meaning of "nirguna" but if at all vedas says saguna or nirguna brahman . do such words exist in vedas or not ? if yes then we can talk of it. @TheDestroyer
@RakeshJoshi See our chat. You never mentioned context of Vedic verses. CONTEXT is not last resort and You must see every properly with context. When you say everything is maya in Advaita, you should where it is maya? You should even say what level.
@TheDestroyer you are keen to know the qualification and understanding of others (in terms of shastra) but you yourself has not studies under a qualified vedanta guru yet you make statements and claims. just by hearing discourses you talk as if you have got all the formal learning of shastra which is not correct.
one must first look at self before questioning others.
@SreeCharan At highest level, only Nirguna Brahman exists. But due to Maya, Nirguna Brahman sees itself as different obejcts. Galaxies. But in reality Nirguna Brahman has no dream. I said it had dream for better understanding.
@RakeshJoshi I don't want to discuss with you. If you have no point, you go to personal details. If you don't mention context for a statemet in Advaita, then it looks meaningless for you. Context is very important.
@SreeCharan We in "maya" see Nirguna Brahmana as Shiva, Vishnu and Brahman, plants , trees and everything else. It's like our real self put some "Maya Spectacles" and sees this world. It feels one as many.
@TheDestroyer these comments are not to demean . its for the reason that for those who have not yet developed proper brahma jijnasa should stick to rituals and poorva bhaga of vedas . cos vedantins dont think of financial security . furure and job etc . at least i have not seen many
@SreeCharan But Advaita doesn't give any explanation for cause of "Maya". Swami Vivekananda first says, Maya is not eternal as Nirguna Brahman is already eternal and moreover it doesn't stay after Moskha or when we leave our body after realization (Videhi Mukta). So, he says Maya in reality (after we become Nirguna Brahman) is Maya. But no Advaitin can sau why Maya exists. They say we can only know it after realization.
though i do not subscribe to any vedanta . i m against it but if anyone want to learn proper vedanta then arsha bodha gurukula of dayananda saraswati is best
@SreeCharan (It is actually difficult to say now). Ok. Suddenly Nirguna Brahman due to Maya sees itself as multiple things. Nirguna Brahman sees itself as Brahma, Vishnu, Maheswara, Earth, galaxies and all other dualities. Every Jiva or atom is Nirguna Brahman in reality but every jiva feels itself as Jiva because of Maya. But when they remove Maya (Videhi Mukta), they become Nirguna Brahman.
@SreeCharan "Paramarthika Satyam" is Nirguna Brahman.
@SreeCharan If realized, they become Nirguna Brahman after leaving Physical body. Nirguna Brahman has no name, gender, nothing. It is Sat-Chid-Ananda. Pure everexisting blissful consciousness.
@SreeCharan We can only see empty mirage once we go to that place, Similarly, we can see Nirguna Brahman or realize him or become him only when we remove Maya.
@SreeCharan There's another level. Parthibhasika Satyam. This is Jeeva Sristi. I may feel rope as snake in dark. But when i switch on light, i know the truth. So, we can remove Prathibhasika Satyam. But i can't do this for mirage in desert.
@RakeshJoshi even if I accept one can get janan only through guru then where is proof that the guru found is bona fide? In Kaliyuga, already we are bereft of bona fide gurus.
@SreeCharan In Shankara's Advaita, all Devas with trimurties comes under Vyavaharika Satyam. In Vyavaharika Satyam, there's no supremacy of any God as it is illusion.
@RakeshJoshi By the way, here is Ramanujacharya's refutation of the rope and snake thing. We only confuse a rope for a snake because there is something snake-like in the rope, namely it's shape. So similarly, if we see Brahman and mistake it for a chair, there must be something chair-like in Brahman. And if we see Brahman and mistake it for an apple, then there must be something apple-like in Brahman. So Brahman must have a chair-like quality, an apple-like quality, etc.
i have made a thread on sankaras accusing by acharyas . they are asking reference of exact verses. could you please provide these verses of yamunacharya , bhaskaracharya and ramanuna and desikan which says about sankara
@TheDestroyer how can we reject science ? when people are getting cured by hypnotherapy how we can take it as false /
@KeshavSrinivasan What is "Chair like" and "Apple like"? unchaning truth is in everything. That is Nirguna Brahman.
Even in chair, it has some unchanging thing in it which is Brahman.
@KeshavSrinivasan Else how can we find changing thing. We can feel our body is changing because we have some absoulte quantity in us. We can see seasons are changing. If we ourselves are changing, how can we find change. but at same time, we can find changes in our body. So, in us there is something which is not changing.
@KeshavSrinivasan Every Jiva has that. IF Jivas has that, why not inanimate object?
@RakeshJoshi People can be cured by if doctors provided that they are able to pass thought to the patient's subconscious. I think this is what you're talking about. It is mentioned in "Powers of your subconscious mind".
@TheDestroyer We only mistake when there is similarity like snake and rope. But we do not mistake a rope for a tree. So there is truth in everything and not everything is illusion. According to advaita maya is illusion.
@SreeCharan Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa used to say it is God himself who has become all these - chair, water etc..So it is not illusion but is temporary.
@SreeCharan In the beginning there was God alone, in the end(end of cycle) there will be God alone so everything in between is God as well and that includes walls, paintings, anything and everything.
when say isavasyam idam sarvam... then what is this "sarvam" they are refereing to ? it refers to "created jagat" if it was dream why such statements come in moola samhita @TheDestroyer
@TheDestroyer But the question is not whether Brahman is present in a chair. The question is what chair-like quality does Brahman have that would make someone confuse it with a chair? And whatever that quality is, it would disprove the notion that Brahman is Nirguna.
@TheDestroyer We interpret it the same way we interpret Tattvamasi and Aham Brahmasmi, i.e. that it refers to Brahman being the Antaryami of the Jivatma.
@KeshavSrinivasan Maya is responsible for this confusion. We are not seeing Chair as Nirguna Brahman because we are in Maya.
@KeshavSrinivasan If Visista Advaitins interpret Ayam Atma Brahman as Antaryami, Vedic statement should be something like "You have Brahman in Atman" not "Your Atman is Brahman".
@TheDestroyer OK, whether it's Maya or not, there must be some real thing which has a chair-like quality in order for someone to think there is a chair. But Advaitins think Brahman is the only thing that exists. So it contradicts the Advaita notion of Nirguna Brahman.
