@SwiftPushkar @KrishnShweta @TheDestroyer haha... what was going on here... you people are manufacturing names...😀😀

@SwiftPushkar why would I laugh at you... actually I don't know what is 'what's app'?...😀😀 (now don't laugh at me)... Neither I have used it nor seen anyone using it... but I think it's social networking Site... I use only facebook and Viber among social networking sites... 😀😀

@KrishnShweta btw... that answer of Amit is the cause of creation of this page... originally the name of this page was "Discussion on Vedas and Homosexuality"... and latter Keshav changed this page into "Discussion on Vedanta and Philosophy"...

@Tezz @TheDestroyer I just watched an interesting video about Tirupati:

@Tezz @TheDestroyer The Tamil TV show that it's taken from seems to be similar to that dumb American show "Ancient Aliens". But it's still interesting, particularly because it contains an interview with Ramana Dikshitar, the chief priest of Tirupati.

@Tezz @TheDestroyer Ramana Dikshitar made an interesting claim in the interview. He says that the Shwetadvipa, the abode of Vishnu's Vyuha Vasudeva form, is actually located underground, and that they are certain gates located at various places on the Earth where the Siddhas living in Shwetadvipa can come above ground. He says one gate is located in Tibet, one gate is in South America, one gate is in the Pacific Ocean, and one gate is in Tirupati.

@Tezz @TheDestroyer He says that when Rama and the Vanaras were going to Lanka, they spent 3 days in Tirupati, and the Vanaras discovered a body of water which had a gate to Shwetadvipa. Vishnu told the Siddhas not to attack the Vanaras, because they were on a divine mission. So the Siddhas just gave the Vanaras fruits and sent them away.

@KeshavSrinivasan ohh.. i think this is somewhat true. we can hear some mysterious sounds in some temples such as Padmanabha Swamy temple in Tiruvanantapuram.

@Tezz @TheDestroyer He says that to this day you can still see the whirlpool through which the Vanaras went underground into Shwetadvipa. He's seen it himself.

@KeshavSrinivasan I think some temples are gates to underground world. But why did the same TTD say Sweta Dvipa as Russia in exhibition during Puskharam.

@TheDestroyer I'm not sure why TTD said that, but in any case TTD is not the same as the Vaikhanasa priests.

@TheDestroyer But I find this underground world thing ridiculous. I don't know of any scriptures that say Shwetadvipa is underground.

@KeshavSrinivasan I know Rama and Vanaras visited Seshachala Hills after returning. There is temple of Anjaneya and lake created by Lakshmana.

@KeshavSrinivasan Subtle world or gross world?

@KeshavSrinivasan What's the language? Tamil?

@TheDestroyer Yeah, Tamil.

@TheDestroyer The Shanti Parva of the Mahabharata seems to describe it as above ground: "Endued with high Yoga-puissance, Narada suddenly soared into the firmament and reached the summit of the mountains of Meru. Proceeding to a retired spot on that summit, the great ascetic took rest for a short while. He than cast his eyes towards the north western direction and beheld an exceedingly wonderful sight. Towards the north, in the ocean of milk, there is a large island named the White Island."

@Tezz @TheDestroyer By the way, I made a mistake, the gate wasn't in a whirlpool, it was in a cave. The chief priest says he has seen the mouth of the cave. But the cave is connected to a body of water.

@Tezz @TheDestroyer Here's a description of the place: gotirupati.com/vaikunta-theertham

@KeshavSrinivasan I want to discuss about Ramanujacharya's view on Adi Shankaracharya.

@Pandya Well, Ramanujacharya thought that Adi Shankaracharya had distorted the meaning of the Brahma Sutras in his Brahma Sutra Bhashya. That's why Ramanujacharya sought out the works of as many pre-Shankara commentators as possible.

@KeshavSrinivasan According to Ramanujacharya the texts of Upanishad are needed to be interpreted properly right?

@KeshavSrinivasan So, Does he mean that Adi Shankarachaya's interpretation is incorrect?

@Pandya Yeah

@Pandya In many places in the Sri Bhashya Ramanujacharya goes into great detail into why Adi Shankaracharya's interpretation of a given Upanishad verse is wrong. And this isn't something special about Ramanujacharya, Adi Shankaracharya also goes into great detail into why he thinks other interpretations of a given Upanishad verse are wrong.

@KeshavSrinivasan then what does he (Ramanujacharya) think about : Whether Adi Shankaracharya should have realized absolute truth actually or not?

@Pandya Well, Ramanujacharya never explicitly discusses Adi Shankaracharya at all. He just phrases his arguments as "The Purvapakshin says this" and then he says "To this we reply as follows." It's the same style as Adi Shankaracharya and other Hindu philosophers, they didn't mention the names of their opponents.

@Pandya But as far as what Ramanujacharya thinks happens to Advaitins in general, he thought that they could only achieve Ekatva/Kaivalya, not actual Moksha.

@Pandya To put it another way, they only experience Atmajnana, not Brahmajnana.

@KeshavSrinivasan If you consider that Adi Shankaracharya realized absolute truth actually, then you should accept his interpretation and if you reject his interpretation, then you can say he didn't realized the absolute truth actually. (As I think there is only one absolute truth). How about it?

@Pandya Well, there is the possibility of deceiving people, similar to Vishnu's incarnation Buddha. But yes, if you believe that Adi Shankaracharya had Brahmajnana and was sincerely trying to guide others to Brahmajnana, then you should accept his interpretation of Vedanta.

@Pandya But I certainly agree with you that there is only one absolute truth. And in fact I don't make any distinction between relative truth and absolute truth. A (meaningful) statement is either true or false, and if it is true then it is the absolute truth.

@KeshavSrinivasan exactly so what do you (or Ramanujacharya) think about "Shankaracharya had Brahmajnana" or not? as rejecting his interpretation...

@Pandya Well, I think Shiva probably has Brahmajnana, given that he was a direct disciple of Vishnu and he's the greatest of all Vaishnavas. So I think there's two possibilities: either Adi Shankaracharya was an incarnation of Shiva but he was born to deceive people as the Padma Purana says, or he was not an incarnation of Shiva and he did not have Brahmajnana at all.

@KeshavSrinivasan what do you mean by as Padma Purana says? (I don't know any relation to Padma Purana with this)

@Pandya There is a chapter of the Padma Purana where Shiva says that in the Kali Yuga he will incarnate to deceive people, in a manner that's a clear reference to Adi Shankaracharya. Some people believe that chapter to be an interpolation, others think it's genuine, but either way I think if Adi Shankaracharya was an incarnation of Shiva he was born to deceive people.

@Pandya See this excerpt from the Padma Purana: gdurl.com/lcwa

@KeshavSrinivasan weird! I've not imagined such before!

@KeshavSrinivasan Why Vaishnavas believe Vishnava purana more than Vedas? The sentences hurt me when they say "Shiva is greatest Vasihnava" and "Vishnu is greatest Shiva". I hear more the first statement thought i never heard anyone saying second statement. They even Apply puranic interpretations to Vedas @Pandya That chapter from Padma Purana looks spurious. It is clear interpolation.

@KeshavSrinivasan So, do you believe in deceiving (of) people by Shiva?

@Pandya in that chapter Shiva Himself demeans Shiva Pasupata Philosophy except Vaishnava Philosophy. So, high chances that chapter may be corrupted or interpolated.

@Pandya According to Tezz, entire Uttarahanda of Padma Purana is interpolation.

@TheDestroyer may be but we (I & @Keshav) won't try to judge (about) trueness of Purans :p

@Pandya i think you can reject those arguments which interpret vedas from "language" of puranas. Gaudiyas do that. Even some others do that.

@TheDestroyer yes but presently let me get the view/opinion of @KeshavSrinivasan chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/32808220#32808220

@Pandya Ultimate reality is definitely one. I think all Philosophies may evolve into Advaita finally. ok. Get his views.

@Pandya "So, do you believe in deceiving (of) people by Shiva?" Yes, I certainly do believe that Shiva does deceive people under certain circumstances. And another excerpt from the Padma Purana features Vishnu telling Shiva to write texts deceiving people. Now whether Adi Shankaracharya was an example of this I'm unsure of. I am inclined to believe Adi Shankaracharya was an incarnation of Shiva, so yes, I think he most likely is an example of this.

@KeshavSrinivasan ok; so according to you this is 1st possibility and 2nd one is " he was not an incarnation of Shiva and he did not have Brahmajnana at all.".

@Pandya Which is not to say that I think Adi Shankaracharya's works should be thrown in the garbage or anything like that. Regardless of whether he was an incarnation, I have great respect, for him, his writings, and his efforts to save Hinduism.

@Pandya Yeah

@KeshavSrinivasan ok. What is your view on "interpreting Vedas with help of Puranas"? interpreting Sruti with help of contents of "changing" Smriti?

@KeshavSrinivasan ok. "Regardless of whether he was an incarnation, I have great respect, for him, his writings, and his efforts to save Hinduism." Good [this should be the attribute of every Hindu :)]

@KeshavSrinivasan Btw, Has Ramanujacharya raised such issue for Adi Shankaracharya regarding Padma Puran? I think no...

@Pandya regarding Adi Shankara being Shiva's incarnation, Advaitins or Sringeri people strongly believe Shankara as Kailasa Shakara.

@Pandya No Ramanujacharya has never even mentioned his name, let alone discussed anything about Adi Shankaracharya.

ok

@KeshavSrinivasan Thanks for discussing/talking with me on this topic. good-bye!

@TheDestroyer "ok. What is your view on "interpreting Vedas with help of Puranas"? interpreting Sruti with help of contents of "changing" Smriti?" This isn't something that different Vedantic philosophers disagree about. Adi Shankaracharya's Brahma Sutra Bhashya is filled with quotes from Smriti which he uses to interpret Shruti.

@TheDestroyer If you want to understand better about the authoritativeness of Smriti, I suggest you read Adhyaya 1 of Jaimini's Purva Mimamsa Sutras. (You can use volume 1 of Shabara's commentary which I gave you earlier.)

@KeshavSrinivasan I definitely believe in Smriti. If not, i wouldn't get devotion to Shiva (Shiva Purana). But i believe Sruti as infalliable and give more importance to Sruti over Smriti.

@KeshavSrinivasan ok. BTW, do you know Why Vasistha is best among the sages?

@TheDestroyer Well, I still suggest you read the Purva Mimamsa Sutras to understand the precise relationship between Shruti and Smriti. In any case, it is certainly true that when Smriti contradicts Shruti, Shruti is more authoritative.

@KeshavSrinivasan But what if Shruti contradicts? There are many Contradicting statements in Vedas over Supreme Being. Only Advaita explained me satisfactorily.

@Tezz Have you found word Shankhya in other Upanishads? || hinduism.stackexchange.com/q/15363/277 ||

I only found from Shvetashvatar & Muktika (अत एव ब्रह्मलोकस्था अपि ब्रह्ममुखाद्वेदान्तश्रवणादि कृत्वा तेन सह कैवल्यं लभन्ते । अतः सर्वेषां कैवल्यमुक्तिर्ज्ञानमात्रेणोक्ता । न कर्मसांख्ययोगोपासनादिभिरित्युपनिषत् ॥)

@Pandya in Puranas, Shiva is described as Lord of Samkhya Philosophy.

@KeshavSrinivasan Oh.... maybe they are entrance for higher dimensions...

@Pandya No, I'm not aware of other Upanishads mentioning Sankhya...

@Tezz do you know story of Raja Rajeswari Devi?

@Tezz @TheDestroyer I just found the story of the Vanaras seeing Vaikuntha in the Sthala Purana of Tirupati:

@KeshavSrinivasan ohh. Do you have Sthala Purana of Tirupathi?

@TheDestroyer I think Raja Rajeshwari Devi is same as Maha Tripura Sundari...

@KeshavSrinivasan who writes Sthala Puranas?...

@Tezz in our city, there are two Alankarams of Devi Durga. 2 days ago it was Lalitha Tripura sundari and last alankaram is Raja Rajeswari Devi

@TheDestroyer Yeah, see G.V Chalapathi Rao's translation linked to in my question here:

@Tezz I think usually temple authorities write the Sthala Puranas. In the case of Tirupati, the Sthala Purana was written in the 15th century I think, and it consists of quotes from various actual Puranas which discuss Tirupati.

@TheDestroyer I think Raja Rajeshwari is same as Tripura Sundari or Sri Lalita... 1st verse of Lalita Sahasranaam states " SrimAtA sri mahArajnni srimad Singhasaneshwari"... and she lives in seat having four stands as Brahma Vishnu Rudra and Maheswara... and above SadaShiva... and she sits above SadaShiva ...

@KeshavSrinivasan Ok...

@KeshavSrinivasan i have entire Sthala Purana in Telugu with all stories take from all Puranas even Bhavishottara. But that is in Poetic Telugu which is bit difficult for me understand.

@KeshavSrinivasan BTW, TTD is planning to digitize all texts in simple Indian languages.

@TheDestroyer what is TTD?

@TheDestroyer @Tezz @KeshavSrinivasan - hii Vannakam 😊🙋

Tirumala Tirupati Devastanam.. Temple of board of Tirupati..

@SwiftPushkar नमस्तस्यै नमस्कारम् ।।

@SwiftPushkar नमस्कारः

@TheDestroyer Oh ok...

@Tezz Second richest after Padmanabha Swami..

@TheDestroyer Ok...

@Tezz @TheDestroyer - Yes , नमस्कार 😊

@KeshavSrinivasan - 😊

@SwiftPushkar Vanakkam

@TheDestroyer "BTW, TTD is planning to digitize all texts in simple Indian languages" Oh, that may related to their ebook site here: ebooks.tirumala.org.

@Tezz - Ravan Dahan (burning) hota hai kay ,tumhate yahan , (Do you people , burn the Ravana idol over thete )?

@Tezz You should also check out that ebook site. It has a lot of good Hinduism books.

@KeshavSrinivasan - yes , i also gone through that site , its of Tirupati Devasthan official site :) they have very good books collection

@SwiftPushkar Yeah, they have lots of hard to find books, like Vedanta Desikan's commentary on the Isha Upanishad.

@Tezz TTD is the government board that controls the Tirupati temple. India has a dumb system, started by the British, where government endowment boards control most of the Hindu temples in India. But it only applies to Hindu temples; the government allows Christian churches and other religious institutions to manage themselves.

@KeshavSrinivasan - What's your views on reading Vedas , puranas , Upanishadas (translation) in english language? I have experienced myslef that there is huge difference in reading these in our own mothertounge and in english , in our own languages we feel emotional attachment ,

but while rading same in english it's different , we don't feel any attachment towards our scriptures ,what you think ?

@Tezz @TheDestroyer - Your views also :)

@TheDestroyer @Tezz @KeshavSrinivasan - Bye. GN , TC / Good Day 😊💐

@SwiftPushkar If you can know Sanskrit, that's the best language to read scripture in. If you don't know Sanskrit, then it's best to read scripture in whatever your first language is.

@SwiftPushkar No, Ravana dahana isn't done here... but I don't know why people connect Navaratri Vijaya Dashami to killing of Ravana by Rama... Rama killed Ravana in the month of Falguna Chaitra... Moreover it is not possible to kill Ravana at Dashain and return as Deepawali as there is gap of huge no. of days... So I think ot started just as Rumour... 14 yrs of Ramas Vanavas ended in his birthday... and Ram meet Bharat in Chaitra Shukla Navami... so it is not possible...

@SwiftPushkar Yes it is best to read in Sanskrit.... and there is siginificant difference also... but if one doesn't know Sanskrit... then... Something is better than Nothing....

@KeshavSrinivasan Ok Thank You! I'll check Ebooks there...

@Tezz By the way, I'm not sure how the chief priest of Tirupati got that information about there being other gates to Sheetadvipa in Tibet, South America, and the Pacific Ocean.

@Tezz I wonder if he's one of the people who think that Jambudvipa is the whole Earth, and different Varshas are different continents on the Earth. If so maybe there is some scripture that says that, say, Ketumal Varsha has a gate to Shwetadvipa, and then he interprets that as a reference to South America or something.