Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamyya - 2013-02-12 (page 1 of 2)

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11:37 AM

@Ali, whould you please answer this question of @goldPseudo why it is not Shirk?

4

Q: What does "السلام عليكم أيها النبي" actually mean?

When I first learnt how to pray salat, I was taught as part of the tashahud to recite the phrase "السلام عليكم أيها النبي." I am hardly fluent in Arabic, but my translation of the above is basically "Peace be upon you, oh prophet." As a native English speaker this has always felt wrong to me, a...

salat arabic tashahud

It contains talking to the holy prophet peace be upon him and his household, both Shia and Sunni brothers recite it even at any point around the globe and not even necessarily at Madinah only.

1 hour later…

12:53 PM

this answers it islamqa.info/en/ref/34535

@goldPseudo

@owari

1:47 PM

Are the words “al-salaamu ‘alayka (peace be upon you)” a statement or a supplication? I.e., are you stating that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is in a state of peace or are you asking Allaah to grant him peace?

The answer is that it is a du’aa’ (supplication) in which you are praying to Allaah to send peace upon him. This is a statement which is serving as a supplication.

Is this addressed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as people address one another?

@owari

hence indeed saying "Ya Umar Madad" with devotion to Umar is Shirk

Also we grew up saying "Mushkil pade to Mushkilkusha ali" meaning " If problems come then Ali is our savior from Problems"

and all shia mosques recite this daily inside mosques

making the mosques illegal as per QURAN 72:18

And i have video recordings of interviews of Shias who visit the shrines of Imams in Iran. All of them unequivocally say that they goto shrines to ask Imam for health, prosperity, any other thing

I strongly believe they do this in innocence and being unaware that it is shirk. But the marjas \mullahs are the one who spread this fitna and they are certainly mushriks , prayer behind them is not valid. Also those who persist in committing this abomination even after clear proofs have come to them are hardened mushriqs

2:14 PM

@Ali, that's a new Arabic language I believe you are talking about, you'r audience is the holy prophet grammatically and literally but you are supplicating with Allah! Why not to talk with Allah directly then? Because that would be an innovation although the scholars call it personal Ijtihad.

@Ali I do that as well, but not more than how I ask a physician, but you only stick to the appearance of what is stated and ignore all the implicit ones. There might be people who do not know the limits and think such (learning only the appearance of what others mean by such words) but they are too small in number, maybe not educated ones only

@Ali your reasoning is not any "clear proof" as well as far as I can say

@Ali, tell me if I say O AliAbbas I pray Allah for you to send His peace upon you, I am talking with you or Allah?

What's that "O prophet!" for then in the statement? That's a weak justification not a rigorous reasoning, trying not to admit the holy prophet is a witness of us even after him passing away.

@owari it is different calling someone alive and someone that is alive and in front of you, it is different when calling someone who is dead

the understanding of the Sahabah was that he was physically dead

the holy prophet according to Qur'aan is a witness to us, he is neither death not absent

@owari is that in this world or the next?

Anyway, that can be a wrong understanding (which is not) but then this being wrong doesn't imply Shirk

in the next world he is the witness for what? The punishment? he witness should act here and answer there

@owari do you believe in Shafa'ah?

2:26 PM

yes, I do

@owari can he do Shafa'ah in this world?

If the Prophet wasn't dead than the Sahabah committed a great sin by burying a man alive

@AlUmmat What do you mean, for the wrongdoers near Allah?

@owari I don't remember saying that

No the martyrs are alive but with a different form of life, like the martyrs, they are not doing Salah or fasting like us but they are alive

@owari do you believe in the Barzakh? the one mentioned in Surat Arahman

2:28 PM

Yes, sure

what is it?

you don't?

somewhat the ملکوت of this world if I am not wrong

@owari yes, of course I do

in the Quran it says that everything will taste death

wouldn't that also apply to the Prophet?

yes but also Qur'aan says some are not death, yet.

Do you believe in Return (رجعت)?

This is the reasoning of Imam Baqir peace be upon him

@owari yes, and that is in the next world, and between this world and the next is the Barzakh

as mentioned in the Ayah'

2:31 PM

yes agreed

And the Safa3ah is for the Day, implying all of us would be responsible for what we have done in Dunya at the Barzakh

This is a gain the concept of a Hadeeth

Imam was crying, he was asked for the reason, answered for our followers

quran.com/55/20

شفاعة is for Qiyamah and they will suffer in Barzakh for their sins

@AlUmmat, I believe in Barzakh

even know a lot from its details

like it has Heaven and hell

@owari isn't that in the next world, not between this and the next?

but the punishment is not continuous at that hell

@owari interesting

2:36 PM

these worlds are not separate in position but more rightly in rank

for example Allah addresses the coming of Qiyamah like uncovering the truth

the limit is the covers not the distances

@owari I see

@owari so, above you said that the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon HIm) is always present, can you explain this further? do you mean that He is present everywhere?

He can have any quality that Allah give to him, he is aware of us and he can be anywhere he wants if Allah would allow him. What do you say about عزرائیل, can he be in two places in one instant of time?

طی الأرض has different levels

one is to transfer with the whole being

one is to transfer only parts of the body

and one is to transfer only the awareness

so you see the holy prophet when was alive could see many far distances from Medinah, reporting them

like he was there

but that was when he was alive, when he died, how do we know what abilities Allah gave HIm and what was in store for Him, isn't this part of Al Ghaib الغيب the unseen?

WE have several Ahadeeth saying that

assalamalaikum

2:42 PM

@Ali Wa Alaikum salam

و علیکم السلام

@owari please provide

all the fundamental doctrine is in Quran

22 mins ago, by owari

@Ali, tell me if I say O AliAbbas I pray Allah for you to send His peace upon you, I am talking with you or Allah?

@AlUmmat ok let me search for that

@owari @owari you are not talking to me but just referring my name

2:46 PM

That would be strange!I cannot accept it

Why am I not then asking Allah drectly referring your name then in that supplication?

any ways that "assala..." is not a supplication but a greeting

which is indeed for the prophet pbuh, and he does reply

ONLY BECAUSE HE SAID SO IN A CLEAR HADITH

from where do you know he doesn't reply?

الصلوة معراج المؤمن

the holy prophet was giving greetings to many prophet at his عراج

@Ali sunnah.com/riyadussaliheen/15/6

@owari YA he DOES REPLY TO GREETINGS

its a special case handled by clear authentic hadith

but saying "Mushkil kusha ali" or "Ya ali Madad" is not greeting but direct invocation\supplication to Gairullah @owari

you would not accept anything not going well with your belief, what can I say after all those discussions. do and say whatever and how you like, Allah is the judge between us

2:53 PM

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
The Messenger of Allah () said, "Whenever someone greets me, Allah returns the soul to my body (in the grave) and I return his greeting."

[Abu Dawud].

brother @owari why you are not following your own imams , they themselves NEVER EVER SAID "YA ALI MADAD"

And surely if they would be present they would order for you people to be flogged for your grevious fitna which you people are spreading under the names of the pious imams

@Ali you are aware that you might want to provide some proof to support what you just said, right?

Why Did Imam Hussain never said "Ya Ali Madad" while his entire family was martyred?

Or do you belive that because they did not say "ya ali madad" hence no help reached them?? believe me i have seen similar things being preached on the pulpit of shia mosques!

and here all shia mosques are completely covered with banners of Yalimadad\mushkil kusha

even on the qibla side they write these things

not just that , there are Alams\idol hands placed at the qibla decorated with flowers

and this is the case with all 12er mosques

here

and i saw the same in videos of iranian mosques

@owari when "Ya Ali Madad" is said, isn't that giving the attributes of Allah to Ali?

No. Why you think that? Imam Ali has a high rank near Allah, we ask him to spend what he has for us.

@owari and the ismailis due to competition from 12ers they have declared wearing black clothes to be forbidden !

3:04 PM

Not as a god or will beside Allah and Allah's will

Even the meccan mushriqs gave exactly the same answer

@owari Isn't calling on someone (Ali) or through someone(him, ALi) a contradiction to this Ayah: “And (all) the Most Beautiful Names belong to Allah, so call on Him…” (Quran, 7:180)

the idols were not considered gods?

no

i live in india , hindus here do say that the idols have no power and they also say that the idol is not god but these saintly people are near to ALLAH.

in the same way asking a physician is not a contradiction to that verse

no independent will

You can say a name of Allah is الغفور so I ask Him through this name

3:07 PM

@owari we may ask that physician, but can that physician cure us if Allah does not will us to be cured?

but Allah says go to the holy prophet for him to asj Allah for your forgiveness

Ok brother next time if you want to goto physician , then stay at home and say "Ya physician madad:

No, and Imam Ali PBUH cannot either

@Ali Ali you are always playing with words

What I say is obvious to me

@owari than why call on Him: “And invoke not, besides Allah, [anyone since that] will neither profit you, nor hurt you, but if (in case) you did so, you shall certainly be one of the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers). And if Allah should afflict you with harm, then there is none to remove it but He; and if He intends good to you there is none to repel His grace.” (Quran, 10:106-107)

the stress is on "beside Allah" which means a will and power independent of Allah

3:09 PM

Do not seek help or protection from anybody but Allah. Reserve your prayers, your requests, your solicitations, your supplications, and your entreaties to Him and Him alone because to grant, to give, to confer and to bestow, as well as to withhold, to deprive, to refuse, and to debar, lies only in His Power. Ask as much of His Blessings and seek as much of His Guidance as you can.@ Nahjul Balaagha - Letter 31

like what fake gods were expected to do

see even Imam Ali asked to NOT SEEK HELP FROM ANYONE EXCEPT ALLAH

@Ali, would you allow me to clarify what you are trying to say for the discussion not to become such a mess?

so does it mean that he is saying not to goto doctor?

@Ali so does it mean not to go to spiritual doctos?

you are mixing two points and use them alternatively and randomly

3:12 PM

it is you who are interpreting like this

@Ali exactly what I say to you! ;)

@Ali since you said Ali could not, then no human can bring bad or Good except by Allah's will, “Say [O Muhammad]: ‘I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as Allah wills’” (Quran, 7:188) So then why do shias pray to or through the Imams if they do no benefit? and would it not make much more since to pray directly, not through someone, to the One that can do anything He wills?

You said you were studnt of math and reasoning , i wonder

@AlUmmat when Umar came to the house of the holiness Fatimah she cried and said "O father! O Apostle of Allah!" and then complained from the Ummah who have gathered around her house

@Ali I promise that is not the first time you are wondering, and that wouldn't be the last time either

@owari could this have not been a mistake, like the mistake of the man who said when he was happy "I am your lord and you are my servant" but he meant it the other way around, for all human beings do make mistakes

3:17 PM

@owari brother certain things are HARAM irrespective of how the other party interprets e.g: If you bow to an idol with devotional face then even if the other party interprets it wrongly and sees that you are bowing for salah , even then the ruling of haram WONT CHANGE

@AlUmmat all but except the infallibles

@owari and as for Allah's attributes, He told us to pray to HIm through them, they are His, so since they are his, you are praying to Him. He never said to pray to Him through any other Human being, right?

@AlUmmat asking for forgiveness is not done through a supplication?

@owari how else will you ask for forgiveness, you can ask it also through your heart, and do Tauba

@owari what i see is that you are falling in the same trap satan fell, when ALLAH ordered adam to bow , but due to his own desires he INTERPRETED and instead of blindly obeying the CLEAR DIRECT ORDERS OF ALLAH , he questioned the orders of ALLAH!

3:20 PM

But Allah encourages the Muslims to go to the holy prophet and ask him to do for them as well, through another human thus although a name of Him is لغفور and التواب and etc

@owari Allah also said: “And your Lord says: ‘Call on Me, I will answer your (prayer).’” (Quran, 40:60) meaning call on Him straight, and this means no human intermediary is required to call on HIm, or to accept our Duas

@Ali but you are not Allah that you are judging me! Don't you have any other thing than deciding who is Mushrik and who is Satan?

EVEN the earlier imams have set the standard and example and have never said "ya ali madad" so do you claim to know more then them?

@owari ponder over this Ayah, “Verily those whom you call upon besides Allah are servants like you. Therefore, call upon them, and let them listen to your prayers, if you are (indeed) truthful!” (Quran, 7: 194)

The first and only cause is Allah, but the mean for Him to cause is diverse, and Ahlul Bayt are the first Cause in this world, they are the main way that Blessings of Allah comes through them to any creature in this universe

3:24 PM

@owari brother i am judgemental according to quran and sunnah and i would object and create awareness against this fitna and this is my emaan. Infact if Haz Ali would be present he would have certainly flogged you for this

the sahabas even used to BEAT each other for minor omissions

and Hazrat ALI burned the nusairis\sabaites alive

WHY???

@Ali ok, I see you only rough in what is wrong, and you see me rough in what is wrong, do you want to do مباهله?

because they spread fitna in the lands

brother @owari i do consider you muslim

Yes but that time Imam was judging and now you are judging! A great difference

coz it is possible to be both mushriq and muslim

;)

now you explain me why sunni brothers believe Allah is viewable?

Isn't it Kufr?

3:27 PM

@owari ponder over this Ayah quran.com/5/64 , Allah can spend however he wills, Allah can give blessings to whom ever He wills, when ever and however he wills

yes and we accept that

4 mins ago, by owari

The first and only cause is Allah, but the mean for Him to cause is diverse, and Ahlul Bayt are the first Cause in this world, they are the main way that Blessings of Allah comes through them to any creature in this universe

what is the first thing that Allah created?

no cause in this world is necessary, and if Ahlul bait were the first cause, then what about those before them, did not they get blessings aswell?

no one was beffore them according to our Ahadeeth

So first resolve this issue then we can proceed further ,

@owari So he created them before Adam?

3:30 PM

I saw one of the Sunni brothers said Allah created this universe for the holiness Muhhammad صل الله علیه و آله

Yes sure

@AlUmmat dont answer to his claims as they are just unsabstantiated claims

You are talking only from the body and I am talking about the reality of a human, soul

the claim he is making is a mawdoo hadith , the case closes there itself

barelvi sunnis do it

@Ali what issue, that discussion is done with no certain result. I am not going to continue that unless you want مباهله

brother a mubahila happens between kafir and muslim and not between two muslims

3:34 PM

You will not accept my reasoning and I won't accept yours, you want to coin the title of Mushrik on Ayatullah's

it is against sharia to curse muslims

فَمَنْ حَاجَّكَ فِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْا نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءَنَا وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَنِسَاءَنَا وَنِسَاءَكُمْ وَأَنفُسَنَا وَأَنفُسَكُمْ ثُمَّ نَبْتَهِلْ فَنَجْعَل لَّعْنَتَ اللَّـهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ

where does it say between Muslim and Kafir?

and i dont consider u kafir, but a muslim who does love the prophet pbuh

to me coining a title of Mushrik to me is an offense, a worse accuse

and i dont consider u kafir, but a muslim who does love the prophet pbuh

3:37 PM

@owariI have heard that there are a group of books in which in it is everything people need. I remember one of these books are called The Book of Ali. The interesting thing is, is these books are missing, so does that mean that this Ummah has gone far away from Islam because we do not have those books?

@Ali but not with the major shirk

but due to upbringing and bad environment does not feel the gravity of his sin

@AlUmmat the book of Ali peace be upon him is nothing but Qur'aan, but contains all the explanations that the holy prophet peace be upon him and his household has taught to him

@owari if you find that an offense then simply stop saying "ya ali madad" .. you can remain a shia though

when it comes no one can understnad different things from Qur'aan

an no it is not lost, it was with Imams and now is with Imam Mahdi peace be upon him

3:39 PM

in the same way technically we call a hindu kafir, even if it may be offense to him. The best we can say him is to embrace Islam so that we wont call him kafir

no wonder he dissapered@

@owari but Imam Mahdi has not come yet, what does it mean for us who are between the Imams, and the Imam Mahdi?

!

@Ali we are God willing as Allah has stated وَلَا يَخَافُونَ لَوْمَةَ لَائِمٍ

Does he(hidden imam) feel that if he were to come , he will get a celebrity status and wont get any time for his family?

@AlUmmat The holy prophet once told his companions there would come a group of people whose good behavior have 50 times more reward than our good behaviors

the compaions argued how is it possible when we are those about whom Qur'aan is revealed

the holy prophet answered because they act from the black over the white (the scripts) not having their هادی apparent between them

@Ali I am thinking never to answer your comments, you are sure that what you believe is the truth and I am sure what you believe is wrong

sorry "your good behaviors" not "our good behaviors"

Imam Mahdi has gone in to hide for several reasons, I can count some of them here

1. people would be given a time to test each ism that they think can survive them, but when all colloapsed to help them Imam comes and bring to them the truth of the religion and they will never be able to claim after that our thinking was better than Allah's religion

3:47 PM

@owari Allah said that the deen has been completed, how can it be completed if there comes a time where people don't know the truth, is it that the deen isn't completed? or are people not choosing to follow it?

2. All the Imams except Imam Hussain after Mu3awiyah had a covenant over his neck but Imam Mahdi lives in the Hide so that no covenant is over him and he will rise

@AlUmmat That verse is at the day of Qadeer, the religion completed with Imamah (guardinaship of the religion) but Imamah was put aside after the prophet and it was so until the last Imam would come

Indeed when Umar first time came to bring Imam Ali to Abu Bakr Imam told him I will not leave my room unless I collect the book of Allah as my beloved prophet has ordered me

then he brought the book to the mosque but one said we have itand we don't need your book

@owari if the religion completed with Imamah, then why is there no mention in the Quran about Imamah, or the Imams?

So Imam told them so you will never see it again until its time comes

Yes there are but only implicitly, there are many signs for that but it is an examination like other examinations of Allah, to choose the truth without seeing it (again like we eat the wealth of an orphan and we sense it like delicious but Allah has announced it is fire)

we should follow the signs, not everything is explicit, even Qur'aan has verses that if our interpreted arbitrarily would cause stray instead of guidances

@owari that is why we must Understand the Quran according to the understanding of the Prophet and the Sahabah

Another example is Solomon. Who was his successor?

3:55 PM

or the words can be twisted and turn to mean anything

@AlUmmat the holy prophet and the Ahlul Bayt, according to Hadeeth of ثقلین that even Sunni Muslims also agree upon

I leave among you two weighty things, the book of Allah and my household

they will never separate from each other until come to me at the pond

Of course صحابه are not among the عترت of the holy prophet, are they?

How do you use the knowledge of Ahlul Bayt?

Do you have any Hadeeth from Imam Haadi for example?

from Imam Kazim?

How much do you know them?

The Ahadith must be checked/analyzed with the information past down by those who narrated the Ahadith themselves

@AlUmmat certainly!

and who are those who narrated the Ahadith?

those who are known not to be exaggerating, those who are truthful and never lying, pious and the like ...

For Shia those who are ثقة are discussed in several books about علم الرجال

4:01 PM

would you accept a Hadith narrated from someone centuries after the Prophet's death?

the same as the Sunni scholars do

It depends on whom lies in the chain.

For example the first history book for Shia is the book کتاب سلیم ابن قیس

all the known Shia scholars that I know have approved its authencity

it was started to be written just four years after the prophet passed away

peace be upon him and his household

ok

but by whom?

by a companion of Imam Ali peace be upon him, he came to Medinah at the age of 16 if I am right, talked with several companions of the holy prophet and wrote many Ahadeeth as narrated from a number of different companions, and he was close to Imam Ali as well

ok

Any Shia scholar has had a copy of that until it reached us

but have read that the Sunni scholars do not believe in it

I cannot bring to you Ahadeeth from our books and except you to accept them

i can at most and at best argue with the Sunni brothers based on Qur'aan and logic and their own books

and the same is true for them discussing with us

4:08 PM

ok

I have heard that Imam Ali was born in the Ka'bah, is that correct?

Yes, due to our Ahadeeth yes

and when he was born, He did sajda, is that correct?

I'm not sure, but I have read that about Imam Mahdi and if I am not wrong all the 14 infalibles did such

if you want to know that I should search

I will like to know whether or not, when Ali was born in the Ka'bah, did He or did He not make Sajda?

in the Ka'bah

let me search then

4:11 PM

ok

4:28 PM

@owari brother @owari all sunni and salafi scholars do agree that what happened to hazrat Ali and his progeny was WRONG and they were on truth when they fought. But that does not mean that you create a sect and a doctrine out of it

regarding the hadith of thaqlayn, then prophet buh reminded of duties towards ahlebayt AND not pointed that take it as your leader\imam.

@Ali "that does not mean that you create a sect and a doctrine out of it" there were always people that were accompanying the Imams and thus were known as their followers (shia), who created a sect and a doctrine out of it?

@AlUmmat I found it as yes he did prostrate and recited:

«اشهد ان لا اله الا الله و ان محمدا و رسول الله. و ان عليا و صي محمد رسول الله. بحمد يختم الله النبوة و بي يتم الوصية و انا اميرالمومنين

The duties towards ahlebayt is to respect and love them and provide for them and there is a possibility of them becoming leaders too but they were not specifically ordained in this thaqlain hadith for leadership of Ummah. Yes we seek their counsel and advise like what sunnah scholars asked from IMAM JAFAR

«جاء الحق و زهق الباطل

this page: 13rajab.ir/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=106 has referenced it in بحارالانوار، ج 35 ، دايرة المعارف علوي ، روضة الواعظين، امالي شيخ طوسي و . . .

@Ali why to respect and love them?

There is a Hadeeth from Imam Baqir peace be upon him if my mind can help me that lies whoever says I love Ahlul Bayt but do not obey us

Coz its obligatory as clearly mentioned in a hadith

obligatory without any reason and wisdom?

do you agree that the holy prophet said

من کنت مولاه فهذا علی مولاه

?

now see how Allah says what مولا means here:

4:37 PM

@owari Ya you are right , in the same way you are not obeyeying sayings of Ali in nahjul balaga

النَّبِيُّ أَوْلَىٰ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ

he clearly said not to invoke anyone except ALLAH

yet you claim to love him and yet disobey him

@Ali I am not good because you are not good either, such a weak reasoning indeed

no love will yield to obedience otherwise it is not real

If I really love someone would try to get as close to him as I can

ya i agree , infact i would say love is obedience

@owari Sorry for the late reply. Ok, so Ali did make sujood, but if I am not mistaken at that time there were idols all around the inside of the Ka'bah

4:39 PM

and this happens by accompanying them and obeying them

Watiallahu watiyur rasool

@AlUmmat yes, but the prostration was for Allah not the idols

this is the way also Ahlul Bayt love Allah

they really love Allah and always stick to His rules, so they are infallibles

3 mins ago, by owari

النَّبِيُّ أَوْلَىٰ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ

this clearly shows rulership

the progeny upto imam jafar sadik were great and many scholars like abu hanifa etc took lessons from them

@owari But that is what the other Qureish did. It cannot be that He made sujood to an idol for anything, whether it was for Allah or whatever, what is the authenticity (according to the shia) of the Hadith in which that story came from?

Abu Hanifah was not approved by Imam Sadiq peace be upon him as is clear from a conservation between them

@AlUmmat that's like playing with words. If you prostrate in a mosque and a microphone be in your front are you then prostrating to that microphone?

Don't you Sunni brother have anything called حریم الصلوة

according to Sunnah?

4:44 PM

they were indeed good counsels and advisors hence ALLAH kept them away from leadership of ummah.

@AlUmmat بحار الأنوار is a collection of Ahadeeth and everyone knows it contains both strong and weak Ahadeeth, the other sources I do not know about them

it is not necessary to become a ruler to advise people

@Ali then why didn't Allah keep away from the leadership the holy prophet, David and Solomon, peace be upon them, why Imam Ali was then chosen as a Caliph, why then Imam Hassan? peace be upon them

@Ali yes and that's what they did when Caliphate was taken from them

Ali was FORCED TO CALIPHATE

but a ruler can affect better anyway

4:46 PM

@owari does a microphone even have a face or a body like the idols in the Ka'bah then, I don't believe any human being would worship a microphone, of course there are those who might Allah A'laam

He was forced why Allah didn't want him to be so and he accepted? what about his son Imam Hassan? peace be upon them

@owari what about Him?

and ya he accepted and this is taqdeer you cant question

@AlUmmat I just do not understand how you think, prostration for Allah is for Allah, whatever that lies in front of you. However I accept that according to Fiqh of Shia it is discourage for us (not infallibles) to pray in front of photos and etc.

i read in nahjul balagha , that Ali said that we are good as counsellers and advisors

4:48 PM

no he was not forced. He was the successor of his father

@owari so it is not discouraged for Infallible's?

@AlUmmat I do not know!

I'm not one of them! ;D

But of course they will never got astray

ok

Did Ali declare Hasan to be succesor as caliph?

caliphate is a political seat

The holy prophet did and then Imam Ali peace be upon them

Caliphate is a political seat?

يَا دَاوُودُ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَاكَ خَلِيفَةً فِي الْأَرْضِ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَ النَّاسِ بِالْحَقِّ وَلَا تَتَّبِعِ الْهَوَىٰ فَيُضِلَّكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّـهِ ۚ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَضِلُّونَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّـهِ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ شَدِيدٌ بِمَا نَسُوا يَوْمَ الْحِسَابِ

4:51 PM

Ali and his progeny were never intrstd in caliphate or leadership of entire ummah all this upto Jafar sadik , they all prefered to be wise advisors and counsellors

The munafiqeen spread these lies that they had to be caliphs after 100s of years..

Coz the seat left by the prophet pbuh is and will always now remain vacant and its sealed! @owari

that's your idea. Even Imam Ali was aked why he don't rise to get back his right for rulership and he answered that's according to a command of the holy prophet that if you had good enough number of companions do that otherwise leave it, as you to me are like Aaron to Moses when Moses went to the mountain and Ummah were going to kill Aaron

now after the prophet there can only be his caliphs

none of the progeny of prophet pbuh ever longed nor accepted caliphate except to save from fitna\civil wars

and you see we dont attach so much importance to sayings of a caliph compared to prophet pbuh

e.g: TRiple talaq in single sitting was ordered by haz Umar RA but prophet pbuh did not do so, we choose to accept what prophet said

we dont do taqleed of umar\abubakr\abu hanifa\Shafi\etc but ya we do taqleed of prophet pbuh

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Feb '1312

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