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12:00 AM
Should I vote +1 (Digital Trauma) or -1 (Downgoat)
@AlexA. I'm sure that's what it's like for you to moderate here, except that you just became one of the two year olds
put on a two-year old costume
Nah, PPCG is actually a generally mature, well-behaved bunch.
A: Should Community Moderators be "elected for life", or have terms?

DamienYeah, It should be 'for life'. I think this because: You would be effectively kicking out experienced moderators. It would also mean that the moderating 'team' is split once a year. Which is also undesirable. Moderating is pretty much the same person to person. Someone who is competent will n...

@Quill s/mature, //
@AlexA.: Backing you for mod
12:05 AM
Is Martin planning to run?
s/mod/friend(ly dictator)/
@Quill I'm pretty sure he will, yes.
So this is what politicians feel like at debates.
6 nominees and Martin and DK not even posted yet o.o
Doorknob said he'd do his tomorrow
@AquaTart throw some insults and you'll really understand
12:06 AM
@Quill Make PPCG great again
get all them code reviewers outta here
Is there a way to permalink the comments on codegolf.stackexchange.com/election/1 ?
Which one of you is the PPCG election equivalent of Donald Trump?
@HelkaHomba Take a screenshot is the best I've got
unless someone wants to write a userscript
@Quill I don't really think any of us are dumb or bombastic enough to qualify.
@Quill The one that wants to build a wall between PPCG and CR. You'd probly be deported :/
I wish I could change my name back to quartata, but apparently I have to wait two days.
12:09 AM
> Glad you asked. PPCG is about to enter a critical stage of growth, and I feel that one of the key questions to how our growth will proceed is "how do we fit into the SE Q&A model?" That is why one of my major goals as moderator will be to help lead PPCG through this "self-discovery" time. – Aqua Tart
ermahgerd I've been noticed
@AquaTart ;-;
^@AquaTart I'm not sure what that means. What do we need to discover? Are you saying we need to fit better in the model?
@AquaTart My first draft started out something like that, with some jokes about how YUUUGE PPCG will start winning if I am elected. Then I bumped up against the 1200 limit all too quickly and realised Ok, this is a great exercise in information efficiency
@Quill To my horror, I realise I share the same initials. I hope the comparison ends there
@HelkaHomba We don't have to fit into the model perfectly. But we have to weigh the fact that if we deviate too much from the model, we're going to (and indeed already have) alienate other SE users. This is bad because users from other SE sites are very important: they're probably going to be our biggest source of new users, and they're also armed with the association bonus which helps keeping voting from going stagnant
12:12 AM
@ZachGates :D <3
@AlexA. <3
You're such a nice guy, I don't think there's any way to replace you :)
I feel like this should be our checklist of things we should work on:
1. New kinds of puzzles/challenges
2. The possibility of non-challenge questions
@HelkaHomba Please hold this conversation on the election page so it can be seen more publicly
3. Relations with other SE sites
@Quill In comments?
12:14 AM
4. Tools/snippets to make challenges more inviting and to facilitate more radical puzzle types
I hope that helps clarify @HelkaHomba
7 mins ago, by Aqua Tart
get all them code reviewers outta here
I know they're jokes, but jokes become serious when they're told long enough
@Quill Out of context...
@HelkaHomba Where's that posted?
12:14 AM
I personally dislike the whole "alienate CR" joke. But you did ask what the PPCG equivalent of Trump would be....
@AlexA. on @AquaTart's candidate post in the comments
@AquaTart Yep
Oh okay
Although @AquaTart I think this "transition phase" of PPCG is a valid question for the upcoming moderator questionaire
you should add it
@HelkaHomba I posted a link to that chat message in the comments
It's pretty difficult to articulate all this in 500-char comments and a 1200-char nomination summary.
12:18 AM
@AquaTart I would argue that our "self-discovery" phase effectively ended when we graduated. We can still make some changes to how we do things, but we're more or less in our "final form" once we graduate.
@AquaTart it'd be logistically better if you posted a conversation instead of a link to a chat message
I just figured even those comments are not for extended discussion
@Quill Oops, right. fixing one second
Last less official election, in case anyone wasn't here: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/5688/…
Now's your chance @PhiNotPi
> Comments are active during the length of the nomination phase – please comment freely, particularly if there is any way a nominee introduction can be improved or refined to be more clear.
12:23 AM
Less people are going to want to come to chat
if you want to show people what an awesome candidate you are, don't do it here
I know, but the question was asked here.
I would prefer to answer more important questions like that in the comments and use chat for more casual talk.
Or do it in both places
Uh-oh, I noticed a typo.
There's no way to nominate others, correct?
12:31 AM
There was a nomination meta on CR when we did ours
It didn't mean anything
I would nominate myself, but I am a... controversial... figure at PPCG.
besides the community showing support for certain individuals
@MamaFunRoll if your nomination is in ASCII I might vote for you
@Downgoat You won't be voting for me then.
12:33 AM
Make Unicode great again!
Make PPCG great again!
Jokes aside, I'm very divided on whether I should run.
No offence but I have a hunch our moderator set won't change
No matter who runs
@HelkaHomba Is your hunch more hunched than the Hunchback of Notre Dame?
12:36 AM
I don't know, I've never met him.
He's only quasi-moto.
Can we try to keep this room clear of noise guys
Elections are srs business
6 hours ago, by Grace Note
Welcome all! This room is intended as a place to converse with candidates, discuss moderator traits, etc. For general discussion related to Programming Puzzles & Code Golf, go here: http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/240/the-nineteenth-byte
@MamaFunRoll I don't think you can run because of your suspension
@AquaTart "I would nominate myself, but I am a... controversial... figure at PPCG."
Q: Let's disallow nominations from people who've been suspended in the past year

Shog9Well, it's election season again. On sites all over the network, moderators are being selected from among the good folk willing to volunteer their time to help guide and support their communities. I'm proud to be part of a system that governs itself in this manner; for all of its inherent messine...

12:38 AM
A suspension has to be a year in the past, IIRC.
ah ninjad
If you've been suspended in the past year, a CM will silently remove your nomination.
Is there anyway to see your "candidate score" without actually nominating yourself?
Anyways, I agree with Quill that the signal noise should be reduced. @AlexA. can you help clean up some of the cruft
@MyHamDJ I think the elections.stackexchange.com page tells ya
12:40 AM
@Downgoat sweet, you rock!
Unfortunately, I only have 6... =(
@MyHamDJ :3
I have 11 on English language learners though! That's a little bit better.
Ooh, 31/40 for me, as good as an existing mod
10 for me, not as bad as I thought
I'm at 26/40, I don't know if that's bad or good
12:44 AM
Martin has 37.
@HelkaHomba Are you planning on running?
No. Well possibly as a joke, but I probably shouldn't.
Is Martin running? I don't see his nomination post D:
He's going to post it tomorrow
ah okay
12:47 AM
Doorknob as well
I think Peter Taylor has the highest score of a non-mod at 34/40, but you know how he feels about popcons..
We need to make it so the shortest mod wins instead. Agreed?
Lol. The accepted answer, uh, I mean user, is the one with the shortest username.
@HelkaHomba shortest as in height?
@HelkaHomba I'm 6'2" ;-;
Dang. Alex, you can't be a mod anymore. We need someone short like me at 5'9".
1:00 AM
@Downgoat Uhh, sure
shortest fingers?
goats have no fingers so I guess I'd win at 0
Quill's gonna be so mad when he comes back in here
We not srs
@Geobits incoming
1:12 AM
You're psychic :o
in The Nineteenth Byte, 1 min ago, by Geobits
I have a serious question to put to all the moderator candidates. Is there a room for election talk, or is this the best spot for it?
I'm sarcastic ;)
I've got one of those fancy computers that can handle two web browser tabs
But @Qui is right, this place should be more serious!
@HelkaHomba we take avಠcad very seriಠus ಠ_ಠ
@HelkaHomba I have a question that's going to sound non-serious, but it is not.
1:18 AM
I do take this nomination process seriously. It just seemed like comparing bodily dimensions is something you're supposed to do as a serious candidate in a serious election. Right?
@DigitalTrauma Who has the tiniest fingers?
That's your serious question? o_O
@DigitalTrauma the republican party is doing that, so I assume yes.
To all moderator candidates: Please watch this video and name the single best and single worst thing about it:
@AlexA. That's my serious question.
@DigitalTrauma Right. If the US presidential nominees do it, it must be an important part of elections
1:21 AM
@Geobits Uh, all right
@Geobits I've gotta go now, but I will try to give you an answer
Can I be someone's chief of staff?
That's the guy that kills the hookers and dissidents so nobody finds out, right?
@Geobits are you running?
@Geobits Single best: The guy who walks by and just says, "Yeah!" while Weird Al is rapping. The worst: The Helen Keller joke. :/
1:24 AM
@Quill Me? Good lord no. I love the site and all, but I don't want to have to come here every day.
@Geobits The best thing is that I was hoping going into it that it would be about Pentium chips and it was. The worst things are the stereotypical scantly-clad dancers in the chorus and the Helen Keller joke
@Geobits Just imagine, though, your downvotes would become super-downvotes!
oh dear
My downvotes are already pretty super imo :P
@El'endiaStarman are mod downvotes binding?
1:26 AM
What do you mean binding?
@Downgoat Yes, they take effect immediately.
as in completely downvote the post?
Every downvote completely downvotes the post?
1:26 AM
Like, totally.
@AlexA. yes
I don't understand the question
Look inside yourself
When I look inside him I see a gizzard.
1:30 AM
@Geobits who are you looking inside O_o
@Geobits The "Think Similar" mug on the Bill Gates impersonator's desk
@DigitalTrauma Wow, I didn't notice that. hahaha
That's my new best thing
@All the nominees: What is your favorite poem? (by a reasonably well known poet)
Whew, glad I'm not running. Most of my favorite poems are limericks :P
@HelkaHomba I don't know if it's my favorite, but one that comes to mind that I really enjoy is This Lime-tree Bower My Prison by Samuel L. Jackson Taylor Coleridge.
1:34 AM
Not even sure how many poems I could name. The Chaos, Jabberwocky, er...
Jabberwocky is great
Not even sure how many poems I could name... Three Little Pigs?
I'd call that more of a nursery tale. But idk, is there an official poetic text?
"Le Bateau ivre" ("The Drunken Boat") is a 100-line verse-poem written in 1871 by Arthur Rimbaud. The poem describes the drifting and sinking of a boat lost at sea in a fragmented first-person narrative saturated with vivid imagery and symbolism. == Background == Rimbaud, then aged 16, wrote the poem in the summer of 1871 at his childhood home in Charleville in Northern France. Rimbaud included the poem in a letter he sent to Paul Verlaine in September 1871 to introduce himself to Verlaine. Shortly afterwards, he joined Verlaine in Paris and became his lover. Rimbaud was inspired to write the poem...
1:38 AM
In all seriousness, my favorite poet is Dr. Seuss. Not exactly high-brow, but he's had more impact on people than any I can think of.
Definitely. I grew up on Dr. Seuss, as I'm sure many (if not a majority of) Americans did. I do like him, Sam I Am.
@AlexA. That's nice
@Geobits Fair enough. Have a fav Dr Suess book?
Of his, or in general? My favorite book is neither Dr Seuss nor poetry.
@HelkaHomba My favorite part is the last two lines: "For thee, my gentle-hearted Charles, to whom / No sound is dissonant which tells of Life." It makes me smile.
1:47 AM
@HelkaHomba That's a tough one. My favorite is probably Bartholomew and the Oobleck, but I'm not sure if it qualifies (it's more a straight story, written in prose). Green Eggs and Ham is best for sentimental reasons, and The Sneetches is a close runner up.
Are any of you fans of Shel Silverstein?
Of course!
Shel's okay. I like Prelutsky (Something Big Has Been Here, etc) better.
@ZachGates I love selling sea Shel's by the seashore.
+1 for jabberwocky
1:56 AM
His collection of short poems, Where the Sidewalk Ends is phenomenal. (imo)
I'm surprised no one has proposed a Poems.SE
@Downgoat It would boil down to Poetry.SE which would likely fall under English.SE
there was a literature.SE but that got closed due to inactvitiy...
2:11 AM
I'm voting for Downgoat and Geobits (if he runs) because they like limericks and tongue twisters.
@Hosch250 <3
I won't run. Not this year, and probably not any other.
@Geobits That's a pity.
I like the site too much to subject it to my moderation.
2:13 AM
@Geobits what's wrong with your moderation?
I don't know yet, but I'd rather not find out the hard way.
Seriously though, I don't want to turn this into a "job". I like visiting and contributing, but I don't want responsibility for it all. If I want to disappear for a month, I don't want that guilty conscience telling me I should check on the site.
@Geobits One of the CMs is actually proposing the idea of a "moderator vacation", where you could basically voluntarily lock yourself out of mod tools so that you don't feel the compulsion to do modly stuff during some time period.
That's a great idea, tbh. I'm not sure how exactly it would work and all, but the concept is good.
2:16 AM
They should make a suspend-me-for-30-minutes-so-I-can-get-work-done button first...
If I were moderator, I'd make sure my first act would be to suspend you. Good enough?
the miniunun sustenpin time is like a day though
That's not exactly my problem, now is it?
2 hours later…
4:25 AM
@Geobits 1. Weird Al. 2. Weird Al.
5:04 AM
Just asked this of @ZachGates, but I'm curious what all the non-current-mod nominees have to say @quartata @Downgoat @DigitalTrauma:
> Why specifically should you be a mod more than the current mods or other more experienced nominees? What would you do differently? Maybe you'd be a fine mod but if you're bringing the same things to the table as more experienced nominees, then it seems certain the 4 chairs will be filled before you get there. Why should the PPCG public change what isn't broken?
5:23 AM
@Mego ^
@HelkaHomba Typing up an answer now :)
Hi, I'm new to chat. I just wanted to ask if @MartinButtner is contesting or not.
I think he said he'll nominate himself tomorrow
@ghosts_in_the_code I'm very sure he is, but he's posting his nomination tomorrow
@HelkaHomba I have a strong get-stuff-done attitude. Not as in "do this now before letting the community weigh in", but rather "encourage discussion so that a consensus can be found". I hope the other candidates do as well, but I'm speaking for myself here. On numerous occasions, I've tried to increase visibility on topics that I believe are important, but have yet to reach a consensus. I believe the best form of moderation is letting the community sort things out itself (1/?)
5:26 AM
Didn't have enough characters, unforunately
@Mego (2/?) when possible, and only stepping in and using moderator powers when absolutely necessary, or when it's a cut-and-dry situation (such as closing an obviously off-topic question). I think one of our biggest issues right now is low community involvement on meta, and one of my goals is to increase that involvement.
@ZachGates No limit to chat messages :P I'm not saying anyone needs to write a novel, but without some new ideas and proof of dedication, the non-current-mods seem likely to be passed over by many voters. (My assessment of how this will work at least.)
Chat message length maxes out at 500 chars I think :P
But you can post many of them more easily
(like start your own chatroom if you want to be uber dedicated)
5:36 AM
Eh, I think it'd be better to keep all election-related discussion centralized here
That way there'd be only one transcript that needs digging through to find relevant information
Maybe. Don't worry about ignoring my advice on these things
@HelkaHomba Do not go gentle into that good night by Dylan Thomas
"Do not go gentle into that good night" is a poem in the form of a villanelle, and the most famous work of British poet Dylan Thomas (1914–1953). Though first published in the journal Botteghe Oscure in 1951, it was actually written in 1947 when he was in Florence with his family. It was published, along with other stories previously written, as part of his In Country Sleep, And Other Poems in 1952. It has been suggested that it was written for Thomas' dying father, although he did not die until just before Christmas 1952. It has no title other than its first line, "Do not go gentle into that good...
5:49 AM
@HelkaHomba The current mods are doing an excellent job at running the community. I am running because I love the kind, helpful community here on PPCG, and I want to see that grow, especially now that we're graduating, we'll most probably receiving a significant influx of new users. New users are essential to this growth, and I believe we should do everything we can to keep them hooked.
In order to maintain the quality of our site we have many rules set in place and you can't blame new users for not understanding them as they are buried away in the help center. While completely off-topic questions should obviously be nuked.
Many new users are trying to contribute, but having your challenge downvoted, nuked, and left in the dust isn't helping. (I would add links more but I'm out of space)
As a mod, and good community members, we should be welcoming new users trying to contribute. Their challenges may not meet our Q/C standards but that's where we come in. As a community we should put an effort to providing new users with the resources and help to understand our site rules, improve, fix, and understand our community. Stack Exchange isn't a forum so meeting our high standards maybe eluding to some. We should strive to let everyone trying to contribute, contribute.
We want to leave everyone with a better impression of us as a community.
that's my essay for today, night!
@Downgoat I agree with everything you have mentioned here. I will admit that I haven't always been terribly helpful with steering new users towards information that will help them on PPCG. I also believe it's just as important, if not more important, to have our policies well-defined and supported by the community. Hence why my answer was more geared towards getting consensus on long-standing meta questions and nailing down site policies better.
@Mego that is also very true, I'll write some more stuff later on rules and all later, as it's getting late for me...
6:53 AM
@Downgoat "We should strive to let everyone trying to contribute, contribute." I agree. What's your opinion on letting experienced users essentially re-write a challenge that has potential but is badly worded or specified? I've done this once or twice because rewriting is far easier for me than explaining what is wrong (possibly multiple times).
I'm not saying steamrolling (or you could say coddling) new users like that is necessarily good, but if they get upvotes rather than close votes it's more likely they'll visit again
5 hours later…
11:54 AM
> too long by 65 characters
Getting there. :P
1 hour later…
1:16 PM
@HelkaHomba this is a good question for all candidates. I suggest putting this in the meta post.
1 hour later…
2:17 PM
@HelkaHomba Can you repost this in the comments?
2 hours later…
3:53 PM
@HelkaHomba Answered in the comments to my nomination. As always, you ask such good questions!
I was hoping he'd repost the question in my comments section but I guess I'll just put the answer there anyways.
Alright, there, have your nomination. :P
I see it took about 4 hours to golf 65 characters, you must have put great care into this nomination! :P
in The Sphinx's Lair, Dec 16 '14 at 16:05, by Doorknob 冰
There's this thing called "School;" it's really annoying ;)
@Doorknob its official - we will have a primary stage
3:59 PM
(currently in study hall, in which I should probably... ya know, be studying, but...)
@DigitalTrauma At least 12 candidates now, actually, because I know Martin's running
@Doorknob yep, I figured, but its not official until the nom is posted
@HelkaHomba I replied to your question in the comments.
@DigitalTrauma Well if we're being technical here, people could still withdraw and put the number back under 10. :P
I do think we'll see some withdrawals.
I did not expect so many people to run...
Withdrawal works a lot of the time, but it can't be relied upon.
4:03 PM
At this rate, I'm wondering if we'll hit the magical 30.
What happens then?
30 would surprise me. I think low 20s.
@Geobits ( ͡ಠ ͜ʖ ͡ಠ)
@quartata Anyone not in the top 30 by rep gets kicked out
> After 7 days, the top 30 nominees, ordered by reputation, advance to the primary phase.
4:05 PM
So a strategy to knock people out would be to wait until it hits 30ish and toss my name in? I wouldn't have any intention of actually running, just as a spoiler.
don't do that >_>
Well I wasn't really planning on it. Just pointing out the obvious flaw in the system, that's all.
So, the primary starts in 7 days, right?
@Geobits Top 30 by rep is flawed anyway, but it's necessary to get not-obnoxious voting in primaries
@quartata 7 days after the start of nominations
Then a 4-day primary IIRC
4:08 PM
@quartata In 6 days.
4:44 PM
@Geobits I'm not sure if I'm not sure if that's going to be a good idea
5:11 PM
@Doorknob true
5:29 PM
@GamrCorps I don't think I'll bother, but you're welcome to if you want
So this room is a thing... I guess I'll have some reading to do...
Sorry :D
@MartinBüttner A lot of it is about poetry, but I've been trying to give your competitors some serious questions about why they'd be better than current mods
@quartata Sorry. It seems messy for me to post it for everyone who answers. But I'll post new specific questions in comments and not chat
5:46 PM
@HelkaHomba It's fine, I posted a response to yours in the comments.
@HelkaHomba I think that approach is somewhat unfair to the non-mods running. The deck is already heavily stacked in favor of re-electing our pro-tems. "Why would you be better than one of our current mods?" only stacks the deck further in their favor - everyone should be getting "Why would you be a good mod?" instead.
I would like it if the more important questions were in the comments so that my answers to them get more visibility
@Mego There's four seats, and four pro-tem mods that have been proven to be effective mods. You can't blame them for wanting to know what we bring to the table over the pro-tems.
If one of us gets elected, that means that one of the pro-tems won't be.
Asking "Why should we elect you rather than one of the current mods?" is treating it like a forgone conclusion that the current mods will be re-elected, which goes against the spirit of the election. If we were just going to re-elect them, then what is the point of having an election at all?
5:53 PM
@Mego That's a fair point. I don't mean it to sound like the current mods are certain to be reelected. I'm really trying to give non-mods a chance to explain why the mod setup should changed, because without convincing anyone that things could be better/different, voters are likely to choose the current mods, just for familiarity.
While the current mods have been doing a great job (and thus I would support them being re-elected), it's not really democratic to give so much weight to their current status as moderators. All the candidates should be weighed according to their merits and philosophies, regardless of whether or not there's a diamond next to their name right now.
@HelkaHomba But the way you phrased that question did exactly the opposite. Rather than putting all the candidates on equal footing, you made it into each non-mod versus the four current mods.
@Mego Well, idk. Experience does count for a lot when a job promotion is offered, for example. But I think most voters will prefer to stick with what's familiar and already working unless there are good reasons to go another way, regardless of if that's fair to current non-mods.
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