Mathematics - 2012-09-06 (page 3 of 4)

Mmmmh.. with a derivative of a function (if it is a line), or a specific point of that function (if it is a curve). Or with this:
$$m = \frac{y_2 - y_1}{x_2 - x_1}$$

@unNaturhal Remember the denominator can never exactly equal 0.

1 hour ago, by unNaturhal

Could someone tell me what this:
$$\frac{f(b)-f(a)}{b-a}$$
Represents? Is it the angular coefficient of a line?

Matt

3:41 PM

See you later. I shouldn't be here.

Dan the Man

Say... Are you, @JohnJunior related to @JohnSenior ?

3

John Junior

@unNaturhal here b =/= a

John Senior

@DantheMan nope - we are not related

Dan the Man

Wow. haha

John Junior

@DantheMan He is my mentor :)

MeAndMath

3:42 PM

I Liked more OldJohn...

Dan the Man

@JohnJunior Cool. How old are you guys, anyways?

John Junior

hi @robjohn

MeAndMath

Mean square!

robjohn

@JohnJunior Hey there.. how's tricks?

John Junior

@robjohn they are for kids silly rabbit :-D

John Senior

3:44 PM

@DantheMan I am pretty old - see my profile

2

MeAndMath

@GustavoBandeira are you there?

@JohnSenior Come on....You are not old!

robjohn

@JohnSenior What is pretty old is all relative.

Dan the Man

@robjohn Exactly

John Senior

@MeAndMath well, I have retired, I get a pension, and I‌ have a senior-citizen railcard :)

MeAndMath

It does not mean anything.

Dan the Man

3:47 PM

@JohnSenior Where are you from?

John Senior

@DantheMan North West UK

MeAndMath

I imagine John senior speaking with accent :)

John Senior

@MeAndMath I definitely do not have a Liverpool accent :)

Dan the Man

@JohnSenior Nice!

@JohnSenior Haha

John Junior

@JohnSenior What do they call the Royal accent?

John Senior

3:50 PM

@JohnJunior No idea! - but possibly "BBC English"

unNaturhal

@JohnJunior Yeah thanks, I know :)

Dan the Man

Ah... BBC. I used to watch a good show by them.

John Junior

@JohnSenior Is it close to any particular region's accent?

John Senior

@JohnJunior the BBC accent? - or mine?

John Junior

BBC

ie Royal Family

John Senior

3:52 PM

I guess it is closest to the accent of SE UK

MeAndMath

Fascinating!This accent differences!

user19161

@JohnSenior Now SE has a UK cousin!

John Senior

@WillHunting True!

MeAndMath

In my country, each state has an accent.

user19161

@MeAndMath Space after comma.

John Senior

3:54 PM

@MeAndMath some counties in the UK have a distinctive accent

user19161

@MeAndMath Space after exclamation mark.

John Senior

we have counties rather than states

MeAndMath

@WillHunting Anon told me these things , but I always forget it ...

user19161

@JohnSenior We have towns rather than counties!

Jayesh Badwaik

@MeAndMath In my country, each state has a different language. And within the state, each district has a different dialect and god knows about the accents. :P

2

user19161

3:56 PM

@MeAndMath No space before the comma or ellipsis.

MeAndMath

@JayeshBadwaik Awesome !

@WillHunting this is getting annoying...

user19161

@MeAndMath I wanted to say no space before the exclamation mark either, but I better not annoy you anymore.

MeAndMath

@WillHunting You can correct me always when you want, until I do it right.

user19161

@MeAndMath Nah, it's more for the lolz.

John Junior

Punctuation is not a big issue here :-D

user19161

4:00 PM

Wrong punctuation makes you punctured.

MeAndMath

I think too much spaces is a waste of space...

John Junior

Only if you're full of hot air.

Jayesh Badwaik

Hence I was wondering why a panda comes here, eats, shoots and leaves. :P

John Junior

panda?

MeAndMath

yeah, what panda?

Jayesh Badwaik

4:03 PM

google "panda, eats shoots and leaves"

John Junior

Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation is a non-fiction book written by Lynne Truss,

John Senior

@JayeshBadwaik "Eats Shoots and Leaves" is a great book - Will would like it

MeAndMath

Great!

there are things like that in portuguese, too.

user19161

@JohnSenior I have Larry Trask's Guide to Punctuation. I consider it a masterpiece of British punctuation.

user19161

It is interesting that both their initials are LT.

John Senior

4:06 PM

@WillHunting The book by Lynne Truss is more hilarious than educational

they might be the same person in reality :)

user19161

I also have the Cambridge Grammar of English, not to be confused with the Cambridge Grammar of the English Language.

John Junior

Oh I confuse them all the time :P

John Senior

@WillHunting You are serious about getting your use of language correct, then. :)

user19161

Also, do not confuse the Oxford English Dictionary with the Oxford Dictionary of English.

MeAndMath

This is serious...

user19161

4:08 PM

And don't confuse the compact version of the OED to the Compact OED.

MeAndMath

I used to do this in my language, but people usually don't give a shit... and look to me like I was an ET... then I don't care anymore...

user19161

@MeAndMath What is your language?

MeAndMath

@WillHunting Portuguese.

user19161

@MeAndMath Ah, do Carmo!

MeAndMath

@WillHunting Yes.

user19161

4:13 PM

@MeAndMath By the way, I think do Carmo's DG is too long.

MeAndMath

@WillHunting Good to know.

portuguese is a very beautiful language.

user19161

@MeAndMath All I know about Portugese is that like Spanish it is used in SA.

MeAndMath

@WillHunting Portuguese is not like spanish...

If you speak portuguese , you can understand a little spanish, french, latin.

John Senior

@MeAndMath Does it work the other way? - If I know Latin, would I understand some Portugese?

MeAndMath

A little.

Italian, too. I can understand italian and never learned it.

John Senior

4:21 PM

I can just about get by in Italian - but Portugese always sounds a bit more alien to me :)

MeAndMath

la matematica è molto buona (italian)
matemática é muito bom. (portuguese)

@JohnSenior Start learning ! it's really cool!

John Senior

@MeAndMath No time - I am currently learning Persian ... and maths :)

user19161

@JohnSenior May I ask why Persian?

MeAndMath

@JohnSenior Interesting.

John Senior

@WillHunting I have quite a few Iranian friends and wanted to understand a bit more about their language, culture and literature

Jayesh Badwaik

4:24 PM

@JohnSenior Do you like Rod Stewart's music?

Gustavo Bandeira

@MeAndMath Vô ver a namorada. =)

John Senior

@JayeshBadwaik not a lot - I listen almost exclusively to classical music - and a bit of middle-eastern stuff

@GustavoBandeira OK.

@JohnSenior Okay.

hi

4:37 PM

@NickKidman hi

Nick Kidman

favorite chemical element?

Jayesh Badwaik

Technitium

Nick Kidman

not sure if that's a real one

Jayesh Badwaik

Yours?

I must be wrong in spelling. But I am approximately correct.

Nick Kidman

mine is probably H

MeAndMath

4:40 PM

@NickKidman :)

Jayesh Badwaik

@NickKidman you must be a physicist.

Nick Kidman

I am :)

MeAndMath

Carbon rocks, too.

Gustavo Bandeira

@MeAndMath Eu acho que eu tava dormindo quando cê falou comigo. Vô indo na aula de piano agora, cya.

Jayesh Badwaik

@GustavoBandeira you have got piano lessons?

I think I deduced that much from the stuff.
If I am right, yay for me!

MeAndMath

4:42 PM

@GustavoBandeira OK, again.

Nick Kidman

do you have girls on the site?

user19161

Plenty.

Jayesh Badwaik

@NickKidman Well, as a physicist in me, hydrogen atom is of course a good thing to be passionate about.

Nick Kidman

I'd be tempted to say "the best element is no element"

fuck chemistry

3

Matt

Just making my favourite Jamie Oliver risotto recipe. A masterpiece.

Nick Kidman

4:44 PM

make a photo

Jayesh Badwaik

@Matt awesome.

Matt

@NickKidman Still in pan!

user19161

@Matt I see his cookbooks everywhere.

Jayesh Badwaik

@NickKidman Condensed matter? Theoretical? HEP? etc...

Matt

@WillHunting I think he's quite awesome.

@JayeshBadwaik 'Tis : )

user19161

4:46 PM

@Matt Yes. Are you having hols now?

MeAndMath

@NickKidman Who has girls?

Matt

@WillHunting What are hols?

user19161

@Matt I mean holidays, vacation.

Nick Kidman

@MeAndMath: The math SE site

Matt

@WillHunting Quite the opposite. I've got 6 days to write 15 pages (the better half) of my BSc's thesis.

Not very likely that I'll make it.

Nick Kidman

4:48 PM

@JayeshBadwaik: Chemistry now

MeAndMath

@NickKidman I am.

Jayesh Badwaik

@NickKidman Ahh. and so the angst. I see.

Nick Kidman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chPanW0QWhA robots are faster than humans now

@MeAndMath: >that beard

Jayesh Badwaik

@NickKidman wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html

MeAndMath

@NickKidman My gravatar? it's charlie chaplin.I'm a fan.

Matt

4:50 PM

Requested evidence:

Nick Kidman

relating to robots, this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ErEBkj_3PY#t=10m25s is also recommended

Jayesh Badwaik

@Matt nice.

Matt

@t.b. Look what you're missing out on^

MeAndMath

@NickKidman O.O

Nick Kidman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww#t=0m33s

MeAndMath

4:57 PM

That is something!!!

@NickKidman Amazing!

Nick Kidman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws6AAhTw7RA&list=FLO1h1c84R2xhgrVbco-whaA&index=99&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHrBhgwq__Q&list=FLO1h1c84R2xhgrVbco-whaA&index=36&feature=plpp_video

and lastly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uAYDGgXB7E&list=FLO1h1c84R2xhgrVbco-whaA&index=148&feature=plpp_video

I always have a hard time understanding the appeal of number theory, can someone give me insight?

MeAndMath

:o

@NickKidman Are you a physicist?

John Senior

@NickKidman I think the appeal of number theory is that it mostly deals with properties of positive whole numbers - they are amongst the simplest of mathematical objects and yet they lead to some problems which are really easy to state and incredibly hard to prove

Nick Kidman

@MeAndMath: Yeah, that was established above

Jayesh Badwaik

5:12 PM

@NickKidman I think it must be called an "hydrogen-affinity physicist detection test" :P

MeAndMath

@NickKidman Nice!

Jayesh Badwaik

@NickKidman About the appeal of number theory, I would like to say, that a mathematician likes to looks for patterns around him, as most of other people also. Most of the things, of which patterns are to be found are given to us by nature. They are quiet complicated, but arising from simple interactions.

In contrast, number theory is very simple, in the sense that it is pure numbers, there is no reason why numbers are created and destroyed. And to have patterns in something as simple as number is very fascinating.

This is like finding that a closed superconducting ring has a quantized magnetic field.

And hence, demonstrating quantum mechanics, or so can be said.

There is some awesome quote by gauss about prime numbers which I cannot find right now. He expresses it very well .

John Senior

must go cook - back later

Matt

@JohnSenior squawk

See you later : )

John Junior

later

@JayeshBadwaik Mathematics is the queen of the sciences and number theory is the queen of mathematics.

Jayesh Badwaik

5:24 PM

@JohnJunior No, not that one. There was some quote about the invariance of existence of primes.

Whatever base you take, whatever system of arithmetic you take, your prime numbers remain the same, or something to that effect. Then Gauss says that it seems as if the existence of the prime numbers is a law of universe itself.

John Junior

@NickKidman Thanks for all the cool video links :-D

anon

Chatroom etiquette guidelines | LaTeX support for chat (quick installation)

7

John Senior

@JayeshBadwaik I find it hard to imagine any kind of intelligent life form that would not have prime numbers in exactly the way we do (with a totally alien notation of course), but I might not expect them to have other branches of maths as we do

I agree with Gauss about most things:)

John Junior

5:40 PM

What don't you agree about?

Nick Kidman

hairstyle

John Junior

@NickKidman Stop trolling. You're a Physicist in a math room not a Mathematician in the physics room :-D

Xingdong Zuo

is it possible to get a set which every two elements could be compared, say =, <, >, one of three and only one happens, but without transitivity ?

Peter Tamaroff

@XingdongZuo Google "Jorovich Set"

@JohnJunior ;)

John Senior

@JohnJunior I disagree with Gauss's choice of representation for binary quadratic forms in Dis. Arith. - and one or two other things

Peter Tamaroff

5:45 PM

@JohnSenior TO THE BONFIRE!

John Senior

@PeterTamaroff what??

John Junior

@PeterTamaroff We don't burn witches anymore.

Peter Tamaroff

@JohnSenior You should ask Joan of Arc

John Senior

@PeterTamaroff So I am not allowed to criticise Gauss? :P

anon

Let = denote equality as usual on a set $S$, and let $R\subseteq S\times S$ be any subset that has trivial intersection with $Eq\subseteq S\times S$ (meaning $\{(s,s):s\in S\}$). Then let $Q=S\times S\setminus(R\cup Eq)$. You now have three mutually exclusive collectively exhaustive binary relations on $S$.

John Senior

5:48 PM

He also had some annoying traits about not publishing stuff that might have helped the rest of the mathematical world

anon

Wow, I wrote "now have" as "know how." hmm..

Peter Tamaroff

@JohnSenior It depends. Do you have a salamander cape?

John Senior

@PeterTamaroff I doubt it - but I don't know what one is :)

John Junior

@PeterTamaroff Did you find out about : and |?

anon

Wait, you have to account for intransitivity.

user19161

5:50 PM

We have to account for all our actions.

John Junior

How about thoughts?

user19161

What is "Raiders"?

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff Hello!!!

John Junior

@WillHunting It is a way of life.

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath Hey

user19161

5:54 PM

@NickKidman I hate number theory as well.

Peter Tamaroff

@WillHunting I hate you.

user19161

@PeterTamaroff I LOVE YOU.

Matt

@WillHunting This "chocolate" bar.

Peter Tamaroff

@WillHunting Well, that's a problem right there.

MeAndMath

How cutie!

John Junior

5:55 PM

@JohnSenior Maybe there is an alternative viewpoint that no one has found because we have become so culturally attached to the house that Gauss built.

Matt

Later! Got to stuff some risotto into my face : )

user19161

Next thing Peter will say is "Are you trolling me?"

John Junior

No I will say it ;-)

Are you?

Nick Kidman

"Definition: Definitions"

Xingdong Zuo

by the way, since we almost don't have lectures for 2-3 months from Nov., is it good to audit something like Functional Analysis, transform theory..., even if only get through calculus-analysis-algebra or so. Because we'll have too much free time at that moment and unfortunately not many other courses opened.

user19161

5:58 PM

@XingdongZuo You should just read on your own.

user19161

@XingdongZuo If the lecturer is really good though you should consider attending.

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath I did find you in FB, but there are no pictures!

@NickKidman I think $\exists !$ is used for "exactly one "

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff I'm shy...

user19161

@MeAndMath Hehe.

Nick Kidman

@PeterTamaroff: Ya, I'm also used to that. But whatever, I didn't write it

user19161

6:04 PM

@PeterTamaroff The exclamation mark means "unique" to me.

Peter Tamaroff

@WillHunting Oh, yes.

user19161

@PeterTamaroff But really, in writing ordinary mathematics (as opposed to logic texts) one should avoid the use of these symbols.

user19161

Just use words instead.

Peter Tamaroff

@WillHunting ORLY?

@MeAndMath But why?

Nick Kidman

Recently, at starbucks, I've given them the Name Galois for my drinks. [ i.imgur.com/o192D.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/o192D.jpg). "What? Like the cigarette brand?"

MeAndMath

6:05 PM

@PeterTamaroff buy or but?

user19161

@PeterTamaroff Just say things like "there is", "for all" etc. You don't see these symbols in proofs do you?

MeAndMath

I don't like taking pictures...

Nick Kidman

I just figured out that "conservative extension" is a technical term...

user19161

@MeAndMath Same here.

user19161

But I still owe Peter a pic this year.

Peter Tamaroff

6:08 PM

@WillHunting Is us $\forall$ when I'm lazy!

MeAndMath

A friend wanted me to post...said that my pictures is not bad...but I don't know...

@PeterTamaroff looking your photo, is quite close to what I had in mind.

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath Where? Facebook?

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff yep.

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath Don't show it to @WillHunting !!!

Nick Kidman

6:46 PM

Where are the transﬁnite ordinal numbers in the hierachy? What numbers are directly above and below?

Peter Tamaroff

@NickKidman You can ask @AsafKaragila

Nick Kidman

Don't want to call people in

afk

anon

What is the hierarchy?

Peter Tamaroff

@anon Who shits on who. Who sits up above one another.

anon

mm, von neumann it seems

Peter Tamaroff

6:56 PM

@anon Hehehehe

hhh

@PeterTamaroff $(-1,0,3)\times (-1,2,0)$, I get $(-6,3,-2)$ with the vertical pen -method although I should get $-(6,3,2)$, ideas?

err I found the mistake, I got the right answer, yes pen -rule works but you need to be careful with (-1) (-1) (-1)

Peter Tamaroff

@hhh OK DOKEY

John Junior

@hhh The product of an odd number of negative numbers is negative.

Peter Tamaroff

7:12 PM

@JohnJunior That's why people hang out in pairs!

Or not...

John Junior

@PeterTamaroff The product of an even number of negative numbers is positive :)

Gustavo Bandeira

@JayeshBadwaik Yep, I have piano lessons,.

John Junior

@GustavoBandeira Have you studied music for long?

Gustavo Bandeira

@JohnJunior I started making music with 15, but I'm having formal lessons for ~2 years.

MeAndMath

7:28 PM

oh,damn it...

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath Whine who!

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff YAY!!!!!!!

internet goes down..no one knows why...

John Junior

I once heard a saying about music that went like:
The words in a song make you think, while the tune makes you feel. Together listening to music makes you think about how you feel. How true do you think that saying is?

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath Why are you cheering?

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff I don't know...

I want rain!

and painkillers...

Peter Tamaroff

7:32 PM

@MeAndMath Oh dear, why?

Gustavo Bandeira

@JohnJunior I don't like voice in music very much. But I also think when I hear the tune - the cool part is to perceive patterns on it.

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff It's been a long that it doesn't rain here.I can't breathe correctly...I have allergy...
And the painkillers for my back and head...

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath You're a trainwreck!

John Junior

@GustavoBandeira In any case: how can we ever explain the fact that music "touches" us and generates "feelings" that can touch our entire body and make us shiver?

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff oh!

Peter Tamaroff

7:36 PM

@JohnJunior Magnets should do the work there.

Gustavo Bandeira

I guess it has something to do with cultural conditioning: We played n patterns of sounds on n events - we associated these patterns with feelings, supose that on mariages, people play this patterns:
0--0----0--0--0----0--0--0----0

While on death, people play this:
0-0-0-0-0-0-0-----0-0-----0-0

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff how is the weather there?

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath Ugly as hell.

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff why?

Gustavo Bandeira

This also may have several consequences for the future - maybe in the future - considering the diversity of different musical languanges that is being made, we're going to have a bigger variety of feelings.

Peter Tamaroff

7:39 PM

@MeAndMath The sky is grey and it is raining. It is cold and everyone has the flu.

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff Oh!I like that weather!

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath You're probaby on uppers all day then!

MeAndMath

I'm not a normal brazilian:don't like beach,sunny days,coffee,samba,parties,carnaval...

Peter Tamaroff

Or have $\aleph_0$ amount of coffee!

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff My grandma lived there for a while.

Peter Tamaroff

7:41 PM

@MeAndMath Well, I don't like football. dramatic music plays

Gustavo Bandeira

@MeAndMath We're on a math forum/chat - It's obvious we're weird. =D

3

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff I HATE football,soccer,sports in general...

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath But why!?

@GustavoBandeira Well, you're a killer. I can tell by the picture.

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff It's traumatic...it excludes people...

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath I'm a tennis teacher. Tennis is awesome.

MeAndMath

7:42 PM

@PeterTamaroff I like individuals sports.a little.

Peter Tamaroff

I'm so getting upvoted on this one

Gustavo Bandeira

@JohnJunior There's a book you could buy: questia.com/library/1222019/…

@MeAndMath Everything that imply in cooperation excludes the noobs.

John Junior

@GustavoBandeira Thanks

MeAndMath

@GustavoBandeira na escola eu ajudava os caras a passar mas ninguém nunca me ajudou nos esportes...

Gustavo Bandeira

@MeAndMath Yep. É por isso que não se ajuda idiota de graça. =)

MeAndMath

7:45 PM

yes...

Peter Tamaroff

@GustavoBandeira NO PROTGUESIAN HERE!

Gustavo Bandeira

Se a pessoa demonstrar pelo menos um pouco de autruísmo para com você, tudo bem.

@PeterTamaroff PROTUGEUSIAN!!!!!!

PROTOPLATAFORM!

Peter Tamaroff

@GustavoBandeira PORTUGUESULIAN

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff perdón!

Gustavo Bandeira

@PeterTamaroff PORTUGKUNG-FU!

MeAndMath

7:47 PM

no hablemos más en portugués

Gustavo Bandeira

Look this one too:
http://archive.org/details/musicthroughthea010450mbp

John Junior

@GustavoBandeira Great

Gustavo Bandeira

@JohnJunior What do you feel towards this music?

►

@JohnJunior It's strange to know that someday in the past, we felt the same towards the music we hear today.

MeAndMath

@GustavoBandeira Headache.

Gustavo Bandeira

@MeAndMath Contemporaneidade FTW.

MeAndMath

7:50 PM

@GustavoBandeira scheisse...

Peter Tamaroff

@GustavoBandeira Listen to Debussy!!!

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff DEbussy is beautiful!

A few nights ago,the moon was incredibly beautiful!!!His song came to mind and brought tears to my eyes!

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath I haven't seen pictures of him. Is he?

MeAndMath

@PeterTamaroff metonymy...

Peter Tamaroff

@MeAndMath Say what?

MeAndMath

7:54 PM

@PeterTamaroff I mean his work.

Gustavo Bandeira

@PeterTamaroff I hear debussy.

We had an Albeníz-Debussy festival last month.

MeAndMath

but he was devoid of beauty

Gustavo Bandeira

"How else is art to grow if it only continues to use the same mediums and conventions? May I ask what kind of music you enjoy? It is with all possibility that it wouldn't exist without some people doing something that is considered "weird" by most people, therefore "breaking the norm.""

MeAndMath

@GustavoBandeira sweet!

Transcript for

$Mathematics$ Mathematics