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6:00 PM
@epsilon-emperor no
 
@Thorgott what then?
 
recall what you want to approximate
 
@TedShifrin Wait , is @Alessandro the only person expert in logic ? What about @Mauro ALLEGRANZA , @Dave L. Renfero , @Brian M scott , @user:21820 , @Peter smith , @Noah Schweber , @Rob Athan , .... , etc ?
I have seen them from asking question in MSE about logic.
 
Damn that's a lot of pings
 
i think Ted meant in this chat room regularly
 
6:13 PM
@Sayan Sorry for that
@copper.hat oh ok .
 
oh my.
 
@Thorgott \chi_A - \chi_{A^c} where $A$ is closed
 
yes
the answer tells you everything you need to know how to do this
 
the answer is in the distance
 
Everybody gets a ping :)
 
6:15 PM
not those who do not frequent the chat
 
@Thorgott but A^c is not closed
 
you'd have to have come around in the last 15 days or something
 
that's why i'm not sure
 
I meant that as a joke, the Oprah thing
 
These people are not in chat.
 
6:17 PM
f_{j,A} = \max{0, 1 - jd(x,A)}
 
Yeah, please do not ping people you haven't been speaking with.
 
Are you suggesting $f_{j,A} - f_{j,A^c}$? @Thorgott
d(x,A) makes sense only for closed A right
or for any A?
 
@epsilon-emperor you need to add dollar signs to enable mathjax
 
oh sorry, I just realized I misread, what you suggested first works alright
 
$1_A = 1-1_{A^c}$.
 
6:18 PM
@Thorgott you mean 2f_j -1?
 
yes
 
great!! thanks
 
Btw what you upto @Balarka? TIFR started their sems?
 
I officially got the letter yesterday, everything's slow because of the pandemic. '
 
@TedShifrin i presume you mean Abstract Algebra: A Geometric Approach ?
 
6:20 PM
So now we call you Mr. Balarka, officially? :)
@copper Yes.
 
Damn, that's slow
 
Thanks!
 
Campus will open in mid November, but I guess online classes start in August.
 
In Ireland when a doctor becomes a surgeon their title becomes Mr.
 
A friend of mine is also joining TIFR with you guys @Balarka, same program
 
6:21 PM
@TedShifrin Just because I am a grad student?
 
@BalarkaSen Yup.
 
copper what is it before that?
 
@Sayan Oh, what's his name
 
Supravat Sarkar
 
Oh, he's my senior in ISI, I know him well.
 
6:23 PM
@leslietownes Dr.
I suspect it is the same in the UK for obvious reasons.
 
i was once in a courtroom where the other side's counsel introduced someone as Dr. so-and-so. because he had a phd. not unlike some of us on our side.
 
Yeah I got to talk to him through a friend, he was doing abelian varieties and I had some issues in GIT, so he agreed to help me out
 
the judge said, "in this courtroom, lawyers are mr., do you understand that?"
and got a yes.
it was a fun time.
 
@TedShifrin Mr Balarka and Dr A?
 
:-)
 
6:25 PM
hello
does anyone know if there is a pentagon symbol in latex?
 
there's still a guy who puts ", Ph. D." at the end of his name on a case caption in one of our cases i'm working on. it bothers me to no end.
 
it is a bit embarrassing to be introduced as dr higgins and them have to point out that no i am not a medical doctor.
 
@Sayan: Ah, I see.
 
if you don't jump up on the flight when they ask if there is a doctor on board, you are not a doctor. that's my rule.
 
@BalarkaSen Who's Dr. A?
 
6:26 PM
$\pentagon$
 
well, sometimes my brother (who is a surgeon) and myself travel together, we are waiting for the is there a doctor on the plane opportunity
 
@TedShifrin That's your nickname for me.
 
boarding is separate. i am a doctor two times over for purposes of boarding a plane.
 
@Ladiesandgentlemen What makes you think there are polygonal symbols in LaTeX?
 
6:27 PM
we had the opportunity at an accident scene once, but decided that it would be inappropriate (no sh*t).
 
There is one for triangle and square
 
my mom (a nurse) did the same thing. too afraid of being sued if things went south.
 
twice in my life i have known the pilot
 
why would they stop before reaching the best shape
 
Yes, that's it.
 
6:28 PM
is there a mathematician on board?
 
$\triangle \square$
 
I'm sure there are people who can do it in tikz, but I'm not one of them.
 
@copper.hat There's a physicist abusing notation here, it's an emergency
 
@BalarkaSen Oh?
 
@TedShifrin "a Balarka" ...
 
6:29 PM
that is an occupational hazard with physicists :-)
and engineers
 
Yes, a Balarka. Not Mr A.
LOL
But I get your point.
 
it exists in wasysym package
 
This is funny though. Frances Kirwan once told us that Mumford is not a good book on GIT, and she was its coauthor
 
$\pentagon$
 
Thanks, I am going to seriously fail GRE now
 
6:32 PM
good luck !
do you know what sanguine is?
you should be it ! for good luck and chill vibes
 
I honestly do not get the point or the price of that exam. Why are you making me solve random elementary math problems and asking words which I will never use. All that for a price of 200 dollars
 
I got in the top 99% when I did it in english vocab
and in the top 93% in math
but I'm not an english speaker
and I'm supposed to be a mathematician
:/
 
my gre (hundreds of years ago) had questions about baseball which i knew nothing about.
 
dang good thing mine doesn't have them
 
i am a native english speaker but did not do so well on the relevant gre part
 
6:35 PM
all I know about baseball is hot dogs are iconic and they have the annoying little tune
Maybe I did well because I know other western languages so that helped me guess some words.
 
I wasn't interested in applying to schools in the US for this specific reason, but academic pressure is a thing apparently
 
I ended up only applying to schools that don't need gre for some reason though
 
i want a hot dog
 
german hot dogs are better
or do you disagree?
 
I have been specifically asked to apply to UT Austin and UPenn and both have GRE so that sucks
 
6:39 PM
not a fan of homogenised meats
 
even if they are slightly burnt?
 
except in pates (if you consider them homogenised )
 
and served with a bear?
I consider them homogenised
but not meat
 
always find that a little risky
 
what if it's a beer instead of a bear
 
6:40 PM
ahh, entirely different story
 
i like isotropic meats
or meat slurries
 
i have a backpacking mug that has bear teeth marks on both sides
 
I haven't had a meat slurry :/
 
I once choked on a hot dog, haven't had one since then
 
Has anyone actually died choking on food
 
6:41 PM
i haven't
 
I might have and all this is limbo, pretty weird limbo
 
mama cass, according to legend
and the first austin powers movie
 
I know some king died from eating too many semlas or something
 
king henry i was said to have died by eating too many lampreys.
why you would eat lampreys in the first place is anybody's guess
 
eels. not my favourite.
 
6:49 PM
anyone familiar with this?
 
7:03 PM
@napstablook here it is
It does not come through well in chat
Have you asked it as a question?
 
7:23 PM
$\sum^\infty_{k=0} ar^k = \frac{a}{1-r}-\frac{1}{1-r}* \lim \limits_{n \to \infty} r^{n+1} = \frac{a}{1-r}$
so, for the proposition above, where $|r| < 1$, what's limit definition I need to invoke to argue $\lim \limits_{n \to \infty} r^{n+1} = 0$? Do I just treat it as a sequence? I ask because I'm not used to having half my equation be a sequence and not the other half, and at no point does it seem necessary to invoke the epsilon-delta definition for functions
 
7:48 PM
Suppose that $|r|=\frac1{1+\epsilon}$, then $|r^n|=\frac1{(1+\epsilon)^n}\le\frac1{1+n\epsilon}$ by Bernoulli's Inequality
@shintuku does that work?
 
I'm processing what you wrote
argh, I made a mistake writing out the proposition
I'm terribly sorry
it's $$\sum^\infty_{k=0} ar^k = \frac{a}{1-r}-\frac{a}{1-r}* \lim \limits_{n \to \infty} r^{n+1} = \frac{a}{1-r}$$
which is derived from the characteristic of geometric series that $$\sum^n_{k=0} ar^k = \frac{a-ar^{n+1}}{1-r}$$
I'm still thinking through what you wrote however
hm, I'm not too sure I understood the equality you've wrote, is in so as to prove the convergence of $|r|$ to $0$?
 
8:06 PM
@Ladiesandgentlemen $\color{#098}{\lower{1pt}\unicode{x25B3}}\color{#C00}{\unicode{x25EF}}\color{#88E}{\unicode{x2A09}}\,\color{#C4F}{\lower{.5pt}{\unicode{x2B1C}}}$
 
@Prithubiswas That pinged me. I guess you meant user21820?
 
very nice
 
@shintuku I thought you were trying to show that $r^n\to0$
 
nice username
 
It's a curse, I keep getting pinged when people use it as a placeholder :/
 
8:09 PM
@robjohn right, sorry I am, I'm just confused hehe
 
@user I don't think that user21820 would be pinged here; they haven't been here in a while (at least they haven't said anything recently, if they have)
 
do we need to suppose that $r^n$ works like a sequence in order to use Bernoulli's Inequality?
 
@shintuku not really, why would that be a problem?
 
why don't you change your username ?
 
I'm a bit confused in the manner it is approaching $0$, since continuous functions seem to me to do it differently than sequences, but maybe you're right and it isn't a problem (am thinking through your answer)
 
from what you're telling me they're all better
 
@user notuser
 
@user Oh come on, really?
 
TheReal_user
 
lmao
 
8:12 PM
@robjohn are we simply doing away with the limit completely?
 
@shintuku eh? why would you say that?
 
Ok, fine, I admit I've kept this username to make searching for me harder. Please just don't ping me :P
 
I was showing that $|r^n|\to0$
 
listen, it is highly probable that I am an idiot, but I don't see a limit in the inequality you wrote
 
@user okay
 
8:14 PM
25 mins ago, by robjohn
Suppose that $|r|=\frac1{1+\epsilon}$, then $|r^n|=\frac1{(1+\epsilon)^n}\le\frac1{1+n\epsilon}$ by Bernoulli's Inequality
 
i mean you could also go for some random string of letters and numbers
 
$\lim\limits_{n\to\infty}|r^n|\le\lim\limits_{n\to\infty}\frac1{1+n\epsilon}=0$
 
right, that makes perfect sense
insofar that, intuitively, I understand it. but, isn't there a specific definition of the limit that is invoked here, that isn't the typical epsilon-delta one for functions?
 
I thought there was only one definition of a limit (the epsilon-delta one)
@EdwardEvans I meant that if someone sees my username on my screen, they'll still find it harder to find my by simply searching in the Users tab because there's so many people named user or userXXXXX
 
a fine plan
 
8:23 PM
in any case, thanks a lot for the answer! I'll read some more and come back to your answer
 
8:34 PM
@robjohn How can one find out which $\alpha$ in $k_\alpha (u)=\frac{1\{u\in[0,\alpha]\}}{\alpha}$ would make the inequality $\int |k_{\alpha}^2(u)u|du \le \int k{\alpha}(u)|u|du$ true? $1\{\}$ denotes the indicator function.
 
@schn plug it in and compute.
 
How did this function come to your mind in the first place?
 
experience. There are lots of functions that will produce a spectrum of results in different $L^p$ norms.
$k_\alpha$ is just a family of functions gotten by squeezing their domain and scaling to keep their $L^1$ norm constant.
The characteristic function of $[0,1]$ scaled to maintain its $L^1$ norm.
 
@Thorgott not familiar with that result , but it reminds me of the quotient manifold theorem, e.g. quotienting by a free and proper group action
but im sure its not exactly related
 
So plugging in $k_\alpha (u)=\frac{1\{u\in[0,\alpha]\}}{\alpha}$ in $\int |k_{\alpha}^2(u)u|du \le \int k_{\alpha}(u)|u|du$, one obtains $$\int |\left(1\{u\in[0,\alpha]\}\right)^2u|du \le \int 1\{u\in[0,\alpha]\}|u|du$$
 
8:48 PM
yeah, it's a generalization thereof
 
@schn multiple of indicator functions are fairly standard counterexamples in integration.
 
the quotient manifold theorem is a pretty easy corollary once you have this proposition
but I can't figure out the proposition lol
 
@copper.hat what do you mean?
 
which book is that from?
 
8:49 PM
counterexample to what?
 
@schn i may missed something, i thought you were trying to show an inequality that was not true. ignore my comment.
 
@Thorgott btw , are you an undergrad student?
 
no worries, my initial post goes back a couple of clicks on "load older messages"
 
@schn where did the $\alpha$ in the denominators go?
 
I multiplied both sides by the postive $\alpha$, right?
 
8:58 PM
nope
 
shame
Now I see.
Wait...
$$\int \frac{|\left(1\{u\in[0,\alpha]\}\right)^2u|}{\alpha}du \le \int 1\{u\in[0,\alpha]\}|u|du$$
Now, $\left(1\{u\in[0,\alpha]\}\right)^2=1\{u\in[0,\alpha]\}$, right?
 
@porridgemathematics tom Dieck's Transformation Groups, he attributes it to Bourbaki without proof (and there is no proof in the Bourbaki reference either)
@porridgemathematics yes
 
So...$$\int \frac{1\{u\in[0,\alpha]\}|u|}{\alpha}du \le \int 1\{u\in[0,\alpha]\}|u|du.$$
 
True if $\alpha\ge1$ and false if $\alpha\lt1$
 
Teamwork :)
 
9:11 PM
@Thorgott I'm guessing the result is saying there is a unique smooth structure on $M/R$ so that $M \rightarrow M/R$ is a submersion?
 
So, in my problem related to this inequality, I had the condition that $u\in[-1,1]$. Does this affect the inequality in any way?
The integrals are definite integrals, for sure.
 
LSS
Guys, someone could help me to understand a thing?
 
a thing is just a generic object.
 
yeah
well, it doesn't specify uniqueness, but uniqueness is clear in generality
since a submersion always determines the smooth structure on the codomain
 
how come i get a 404 when i look at LSS's profile?
 
LSS
9:15 PM
I dont know
Well, my doubt is about conditions that a vector field need to satisfy to be a gradient of a function...
I think i am misinterpreting it
Because suppose (-y/(x^2+y^2),x/(x^2+y^2))
Over R^2-origin
The curl is zero
 
@copper.hat it means their current parent account (physics) no longer exists
they (or a mod) can change it to a site that exists but the system doesn't automatically do anything about that
 
@hyper-neutrino Thanks!
 
LSS
And, i mean, the problem is here: Isn't all paths i constructed inside some rectangle?
 
what paths are you talking about?
 
LSS
For example, suppose a circle, isn't it inside a disk with greater radius?
 
9:21 PM
why don't you formulate your question and ask it.
 
@robjohn huh, I was reading too much into it, it finally made sense. thanks a lot again
 
@shintuku glad to help
 
@robjohn thanks for the help
 
9:37 PM
@LSS No, you’re not reading carefully. No holes in a disk or rectangle.
 
@TedShifrin I buy the prestressed ones that are all the rage these days. They come with holes added (or removed, depending on your POV)
 
How commodious! @robjohn
 
10:28 PM
Extremely quick question, bounded linear maps are ones that take bounded sets into bounded (image) sets. For example, the condition $|Tx|_Y \leq |x|_X$ for $T: X\to Y$ implies this definition, but how does it go in the other way? How does taking bounded sets into bounded sets imply that inequality?
 
It doesn’t.
 
you're missing a constant
 
right sorry there is a constant
 
once that has been amended, consider the unit sphere
 
oh wow
 
10:36 PM
Artificially?
Far from artificial.
 
maybe i don't understand it.
i'll just retract that comment
 
Write $T(x) = \|x\| T(x/\|x\|)$.
 
Ok if I take the norm on Y, i m only getting |T|_Y \leq c |x|_Y still.
 
That makes no sense.
$x$ lives in $X$?
 
the LHS lives in Y though
so just taking norm on both sides on Y, I am left with |T|_Y = | |x| T(u) |_Y
oh
i see |x|_X is a number
 
10:50 PM
Right.
 
ok so it is inherent (natural) iff
not artificial
 
LOL
 
one small question, where is boundless assumption in our quick algebra? is it containing |x|_X <\infty and so we can define the unit vector x/|x|? I noticed in the trivial case when we take the |0| we can't do what did, but the inequality still holds.
 
No, where does the $c$ come from?
 
|T(x/|x|)|
 
11:01 PM
Be more explicit.
 
we can take c = |T(x/|x|)|
 
Nope.
It has to work for all $x$.
 
take sup over all x? so using the unit sphere again \sup_|x| = 1 |T(x/|x|)|
 
Again? For the first time. Why is that sup finite?
You can rewrite that, by the way.
 
the set is compact right (this is the boundedness condition)? So the sup is finite, i m not sure why i know this.
 
11:07 PM
In finite dimensions, the sphere is compact. Not in infinite dimensions. Why did they phrase the condition the way they did?
 
Good question for the room
How deep can HA get (Homological Algebra)
 
I pass.
 
What's the deepest result you know of that doesn't require any explicit expressions of elements of the involved spaces?
Can it get deep or is it true that the end of the HA textbook is the end of HA.
@leslietownes
 
okay i didn't need compactness. it was just because it was a bounded this still holds true on infinite dim space
 
this question is better directed to someone who has opened a textbook on homological algebra. :)
hawk: hooray. the infinite dimensional spaces thank you.
 
11:15 PM
@leslietownes I thought you were into that sort of thing
^_^
Because you mentioned coefficients or something at one time
 
one of my analysis classes met right after a homological algebra class. i sometimes read what was still on the board. and i took algebraic topology once, so i saw some of it in that setting.
but homological algebra as homological algebra, never.
 
Homological algebra, one ring to rule them all :)
 
i got right up to the point where you had to understand spectral sequences and then i was like, you know what, i'm never gonna do this so i might as well stop now.
 
That would be the $\Bbb{Z}$ integer ring
 
i am somewhat interested in universal algebra and that kind of thing but only as an observer.
 
11:17 PM
What if you took a spectral sequence that was $n$-dimensional so that we couldn't view it in 3D without a mess.
 
hang on why are we even taking sups over spheres anyways?
they are just one type of bounded sets
 
so you get an x-independent bound for T(x/|x|).
implicit in all of the discussion was that T was linear. that's probably the intent but if it isn't you have to do more.
maybe even assume more.
 
oh because the formula says so
 
Apply HA to it :) Idk what I mean
 
a lot of stuff that's just about bounds goes through with sublinear operators. i saw a good talk from larry evans on this once. he was interested in PDE but i wasn't and still got a lot out of the talk.
 
11:19 PM
sup is finite on a bounded set? I think this is true for R^n right? how does it apply here?
 
@Hawk That was the so-called artificial part.
Bounded linear maps are continuous and conversely.
 
i love seeing a talk where someone pulls the rug out from under you. 'none of these operators need to be bounded,' 'you only use linearity to get part (d) of the list of 10 things that are otherwise equivalent for a larger class of maps.' galaxy brain stuff.
 
I tried untangling my headphones the other day, took me a minute because I'm no topologist ;)
 
Go for densely-defined @leslie.
 
you do want them to be densely defined, and often closed or at least closable. although paul chernoff had some tricks up his sleeve even then.
 
11:23 PM
PDE with densely-defined operators for geometry was the point I got interested.
 
i'll never forget the day we got to a densely defined operator in a riemannian geometry class. i wanted to shout FINALLY.
 
oh you know what? when we say bounded set here, we are always referring back to the quantity less than some finite (real) number, so this is still R, so LUB applies and hence sup is finite
 
Yup.
 
i just looked up my instructor. he left for finance immediately after his postdoc. typical.
we just made a three-line submission to a judge. the signature block was followed by about a 3/4 page list of all the attorneys on the case. i live in paradise.
 
11:38 PM
Revolting!
 
another one of my advisor's students is an attorney. i met him once.
we should begin recruiting other people to the dark side.
 
Anal analysts all.
 
11:53 PM
the sushi has arrived, which means the cat is taking a sudden interest in my activities.
 

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