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01:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

1:00 PM
Cullen-regular functions have an open mapping theorem so you just mimic the complex analysis proof. Cullen-regularity is the same as saying complex analytic on the C-slices
@Thorgott you have R
you do R - 0
guess what thats a stupid disconnected space
so no
the loopy proof is actually a generalization of the intermediate value theorem lmao
which proves the R thing
 
I mean work on the closures of course
 
In both cases you're calculating degree of a map $S^{\dim k/R - 1} \to S^{\dim k/R - 1}$ more or less
 
@BalarkaSen anyway when I first learned those things I was coming from the model theory angle, so to me the amazing result was that being elementarily equivalent to the real numbers actually has more intrinsic algebraic characterizations
 
Ok man
Nerd
 
this
 
1:07 PM
:C
Today I learned that being a compactification of Z or R (as topological additive groups) has an intrinsic characterization, which is quite amazing
 
man I am in love with Gromov Hausdorff limits
its a brilliant idea
 
Say I have a principal bundle with a connection. How do I write down an explicit formula for the projection onto the vertical subbundle in terms of the connection form?
 
the choice of the horizontal subbundle is given by parallel transport as far as i remember
Oh nah
Just take kernel of the connection form
That's the horizontal subbundle
 
yeah, that's how you get the horizontal subbundle, but how do I get an explicit formula for the projection onto the vertical subbundle?
 
I mean $TP = V \oplus H$ once you have chosen the horizontal subbundle $H$
Then projection $TP \to V$ is just projection to 1st coordinate
You just write a vector in $TP$ as a linear combo of the element of $V = \ker d\pi$ and $\ker(\omega)$
then project to the first coordinate
 
1:20 PM
@BalarkaSen Cheeger and Colding prove that the eigenvalues of the Laplacian are continuous for limits under the Gromov-Hausdorff(-with-measure) topology
Which is freakish
 
Damn
 
But only on functions, because this is false on 2-forms
 
Can you elaborate on the context? Did you mean under GH convergence of Riemannian manifolds?
 
yeah, but how do I write it like that
I mean, I know it's possible of course, but I want an explicit decomposition
 
you want to explicitly solve for $\omega(w) = 0$, $d\pi(w) = v$ for $v \in TM$ then
That's the same as solving the parallel transport ODE
I don't think you can write a formula
 
1:25 PM
:/
 
@BalarkaSen You start with a complete connected Riemannian manifold (probably satisfying some global lower bound on Ric) but GH limits usually leave that category
 
If you have bounded diameter as well as that Ricci bound then you can use Gromov compactness theorem
 
Apparently the right thing to think about isn't $(X,d_g)$ (with the distance metric induced by the Riemannian metric) but rather $(X, d_g, d\text{vol}_g)$
@BalarkaSen Sure, to converge to something
 
Ah I see
 
Then there's a notion of measured Gromov-Hausdorff convergence where you also need to converge in measure as well
On some spaces $(X,\mu)$ where $X$ is a metric space and $\mu$ is a measure (Radon?) there's some notion of rectifiability, where I think the limit of Riemannian manifolds is always a rectifiable measured metric space, and on these beasts one can define a Laplacian
 
1:30 PM
yeah metric measure convergence or smth
@MikeMiller Damn I see
 
So to get continuity of $\text{Eig}(\Delta)$ you first show it makes sense in the GH-limit
 
sounds insane
 
Of course Cheeger thought about Laplacian on beast spaces
he did L^2 stuff on stratified spaces lmao
@Thorgott Gromov intensifies
What's a sequence of guys with lower bounded Ricci curvature which limit to some non manifold dude
It's not like you can pinch stuff, because of the Ricci assumption
No, you can get conical singularities. Some part of the stuff keeps getting infinitely rounder
Converges to a cone, boom
 
1:46 PM
@BalarkaSen The barbell with shrinking tube has unbounded Ric?
The standard example (though this remains in manifolds with boundary) is $S^2 \to [-1,1]$ ofc
 
I thought so, because at the barbell points you're introducing negative curvature directions
 
You're probably right, I can't see this so well
 
the barbell with shrinking tube is an example of an unnormalized Ricci flow on S^2, so keeps bulging at the +ve Ricci parts and keeps pinching at -ve Ricci parts
idk
@MikeMiller yeah alright
I guess there are many ways to have singularities, but I am just not seeing one at this moment
 
Yeah people should write more examples for fools like me
 
Count me in
all I can do is stare at examples and be amazed
dude do you know what happens to $\Bbb H^2$ if you scale the metric by $1/n$ and let $n \to \infty$
it becomes a tree but like at every point lmfao
 
1:52 PM
Jesus
 
some horrid ass space
they call these $\Bbb R$-trees
 
Like that strange 2D manifold where you paste a plane at every point
But instead it's trees
 
Yeah like that
infinite feather train track LMAO
 
Get a life
 
Tell that to Misha
What a space man
 
1:56 PM
@BalarkaSen what am I supposed to do with my GRE
I can't write man
 
get Lean to do it for you
 
like i mean ask me algebraic topology
or cech cohomology
or whatever
don't ask me to write an essay
 
write an essay
 
GRE doesn't matter and GRE Writing matters less
I got 46th percentile
Who cares
 
what did you write on
 
1:58 PM
If you want to score highly just write a screed the main thing is it needs to be long
They gave me a prompt I was supposed to argue and I gave what I thought was a concise and complete argument
Well they're not going for concise and complete they want screeds
 
clearly they're not mathematicians
 
put your Dostoyevsky hat on
 
the proof is left to the reader as an exercise
 
you should use complicated words like phantasmagorical
 
Yeah man did you think the people grading the GRE Writing exam are professional mathematicians
@BalarkaSen This gets points too
 
2:01 PM
"The gods have imposed upon my writing the yoke of a foreign language that was not sung at my cradle” – Hermann Weyl
 
"irregardless of whether this would garner me points on the following test, I am nonplussed about utilizing phantasmagorical words to galvanize my audience"
write that at the beginning
top 10 lifehacks
 
You'll probably lose points for irregardless
Low quality word
 
but i googled for complicated words in english
 
2:52 PM
Wtf happened to the starboard
 
who's the culprit
identify yourself
 
 
2 hours later…
4:37 PM
@AlessandroCodenotti Obviously, it has unhappened in the meantime, because I can't see what you're talking about, demonic. :) Back later.
 
4:56 PM
Yeah, there were some 15 or so stars on consecutive messages, but they have been removed @Ted
 
 
2 hours later…
6:46 PM
Suppose we have an oriented, orthonormal frame $e_1,...,e_n$, which gives a section $s\colon U\rightarrow SO(TM)$. Let $\pi\colon SO(TM)\rightarrow SM$. Can we say anything about $d(\pi\circ s)\vert_p(e_i(p))$?
 
 
1 hour later…
8:11 PM
@Thor: First, I assume $\pi(x,e_1,\dots,e_n) = (x,e_1)$. So, let's see. $\pi\circ s(x) = e_1$, so you're asking for $(de_1)_p(e_j) = \sum_{k=2}^n \omega_1^k(e_j)e_k$, all evaluated at $p$. Note that $e_2,\dots,e_n$ span the tangent space of $SM$ at $(x,e_1)$.
@MikeMiller I resemble that remark. My best friend in San Diego and I always say "irregardless" to one another ... as sarcastic humor. It's funny when other friends correct us, not realizing apparently that we of course know better.
 
8:24 PM
I once got in trouble as a kid for correcting my dad on "irregardless" while already in trouble. Talk about a learning experience
 
$e_2,...,e_n$ don't span the tangent space of $SM$, but only the vertical part of the tangent space, no?
 
LOL, so you like to be in higher-order trouble, @Fargle. I knew that.
 
after a couple of identifications, anyways
 
@Thorgott: Sorry, I meant the tangent space of the fiber, yes.
But since you're looking at how $e_1$ twists as you move in a certain direction tangent to $M$, that's not going to move you tangent to the manifold, just to the fiber.
 
Hey guys
 
8:28 PM
Hi Lozansky
 
Hmm, but let $\tilde{\pi}\colon SM\rightarrow M$. Then $d\tilde{\pi}\vert_{\pi(s(p))}(d(\pi\circ s)\vert_p(e_i(p)))=d(\tilde{\pi}\circ\pi\circ s)\vert_p(e_i(p))=d\operatorname{id}\vert_p(e_i(p))=e_i(p)$ isn't zero, so $d(\pi\circ s)\vert_p(e_i(p))$ isn't vertical, no?
 
So the point is that I was inconsistent in my own notation. I should have written $\pi\circ s(x) = (x,e_1(x))$, and so that recovers what you just wrote. I wrote only the fiber component, you're right.
Comes of doing three things at once.
 
8:45 PM
If $R$ is a commutative unitary ring and $M$ is an ideal in $R$ generated by elements $\alpha_1,..,\alpha_m$, is it true that $M$ is maximal in $R$ iff I can find a composition of surjective homomorphisms $\pi_1 \circ... \circ \pi_m$ where $\pi_1$ has domain $R$ and $\pi_m$ has codomain $S$ such that $R/M \cong S$ with $Ker(\pi_1 \circ... \circ \pi_m) = M$?
 
You might have to strengthen your hypotheses. $R = M = \Bbb Z$, $\alpha_1 = 1$, $\pi_1 : \Bbb Z \to \{0\}$ seems to be a counterexample
 
Hmm well $M$ should be a proper ideal I guess
 
Actually, I only need to care about the vertical part, so that formula will suffice for me, but I don't quite see why it's true. It resembles the identity that's defining the connection forms, but I'm not really sure how to make the transition.
@Lozansky $R$ a field, $M=(0)$, $\alpha_1=0$, $\pi_1=\operatorname{id}$
 
@Thor: So, yes, I'm using $\nabla e_i = \sum\omega^j_i e_j$. The question is: did it mean anything when I wrote $(de_i)_p$ earlier? I meant $d$ in the setting of derivative of a map, not as exterior differential. So I presume what's bothering you is why $de_1$ in that sense should be $\nabla e_1$?
That's actually an interesting point to raise, as nowhere have we necessarily mentioned a connection in this story.
 
9:01 PM
I should probably start by figuring out why that definition of the connection forms is equivalent to the one that I'm using
 
But the point I gave you credit for raising is now bothering me.
 
@Thorgott Let's assume $\alpha_k \neq 0$ for all k, and not a unit so the ideal is proper
 
I'm not really acquainted with the covariant derivative point of view
 
Although there's a natural connection on the frame bundle, the question you asked is just on the level of Riemannian manifolds with no connection. I'll have to ponder this.
 
@Thorgott Is this actually a counterexample? $(0)$ is maximal in a field
 
9:04 PM
Poor @Thor is now having to at least bi-task.
 
@Lozansky let $R$ be any ring and $M=(a)$ a proper, non-maximal, principal ideal, then $\alpha_1=a$ and $\pi_1\colon R\rightarrow R/(a)$ does the job
@Fargle meant to say not a field
 
Ahh, that would do it.
 
@Fargle: irregardless.
 
:|
 
in fact, take any ideal $I$ in any ring $R$, then $\pi\colon R\rightarrow R/I$ satisfies the hypotheses
 
9:06 PM
Not quite, because $I$ must be finitely generated, and you need as many $\pi$'s as generators
 
ah, true
still, principal ideals give plenty of counter-examples already
a more interesting question is whether any f.g. ideal satisfies the second property
 
$I = (a,b)$, $\pi_1 : R \to R/(a)$, $\pi_2 : R/(a) \to R/(a,b)$, for example, no?
If I'm not forgetting any important details, then this means your more general counterexample does hold here in the case $I$ is finitely generated
 
ah, of course
so yeah, any f.g. ideal satisfies the second property
you recover the maximal ideals when you require $S$ be a field
 
So a f.g. proper ideal is maximal iff second property with $S$ a field then, I guess.
 
Ah, so I should require the $\alpha$'s to be irreducible in $S$?
 
9:13 PM
@Ted I don't think there's an issue with this per se, though, since the $\omega_i^j$ exist canonically on $SO(TM)$ for any Riemannian manifold. It's not like your identity depends on a choice of connection, but it should only work with the connection forms coming from the natural connection, no?
 
Yes, there is the canonical connection (Levi-Civita), but what's bothering me is that, aside from using the metric to define $SM$ (or $SO(TM)$), your question lives in the world of smooth maps between manifolds. So should I be able to answer it without referring to the connection?
I mean, I need a connection to differentiate sections of a vector bundle, so something I said is nonsense.
feeling stooopid
 
differentiating a section as a smooth map works always, though
 
The problem is that we don't know what the tangent bundle of a vector bundle really is away from the zero section.
 
we don't? don't we get a description from local triviality?
 
It's not intrinsic — it depends on your trivialization. There is no canonical "horizontal" subspace unless you have a connection. Indeed, that's one of the definitions of a connection.
 
9:26 PM
How are you locally trivializing it canonically
 
Hi @MikeM.
 
Yeah, that's the definition of connection I'm acquainted with. Of course, the description from a local trivialization isn't canonical.
but it's nevertheless some description that can occasionally be helpful
 
But it doesn't make sense of the derivative in any intrinsic way.
 
true
 
9:32 PM
Anyhow, I think we've answered your question.
 
9:57 PM
How exactly do you make sense of $\omega_1^k(e_j)$. $\omega_1^k$ is a form on $SO(TM)$, so acts on tangent vectors of $SO(TM)$, but $e_j$ is a tangent vector of $M$. What identification am I missing?
 
Well, push forward by the section (or pull back $\omega^k_1$ by the section).
You're asking great questions. I'm admittedly rustier than I should be.
 
ah, of course
 
10:29 PM
Heya @Rithaniel
 
If $I$ is a maximal ideal of $R$, why does this imply that $R/I$ has exactly the two ideals $(0)$ and $(1)$?
 
hmm, I still don't see how to actually derive the identity
 
It follows from the correspondence theorem I guess?
 
this should follow from the definition in some way, I must be missing something obvious
@Lozansky yeah, ideals in $R/I$ correspond to ideals in $R$ containing $I$
in an order-preserving way
by taking image/preimage
 
So $(1)$ corresponds to $R$ and $(0)$ to $I$?
Which makes no sense
 
10:40 PM
yeah
 
$(0) = 0$ no??
 
that doesn't make sense
an ideal is not an element of the ring
 
$\{0 \}$ to be precise
My book and my lecture notes use different notations so maybe I'm just mixing things up though
 
yeah, the zero ideal contains only one element, namely $0$
that is true, but does in no way not make sense
 
Ah, the correspondence is $0 \to 0 + I = I$
No?
 
10:45 PM
the zero ideal in $R/I$ corresponds to the ideal $I$ in $R$
cause if $\pi\colon R\rightarrow R/I$ is the projection map, $\pi(I)=0$ and $\pi^{-1}(0)=I$
 
Okay makes sense I guess
So this basically proves that $I$ maximal ideal $\Leftrightarrow$ $R/I$ is a field
 
yup
 
I guess I didn't miss anything interesting :)
 
Hmmm
 
I'm still trying to figure out how to isolate the vertical part of that differential formulaically
 
11:01 PM
Just write down my formula that forgot the horizontal part.
 
but the question is why that formula gives precisely the vertical part
 
11:55 PM
Hey @TedShifrin
How've things been going in here?
 
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